The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[Barney]

Are Liverpool really any better off than under Houllier? Benitez has spent alot of money as well and bought badly it seems.

[charlie stubbs]

he is.very few managers would have won the european cup with the group of players we had in 2005.sissokko and alonso have been 2 great signings.reina went 10 or 11 games without conceding a goal, crouch has also done very well after a bad start and kuyt also looks the ticket.no matter wat u say bot garcia, he has a tremendous record in europe and gets alot of goals 4a midfielder not playing every week.agger also looks gud.il admit aurelio,gonzalez,zenden etc dont inspire me witrh confidence.we got 82 points last year that would have won the prem in previous years.away form is horrible but we have seven new signings and have played our big rivals as well as the top three challengers and bolton.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I think the manager has to take a look at himself as well as the players but our main problem I think is that we have too many players who are out of form currently. Gerrard and Carragher are the heartbeat of the side but both of them are playing well below last season's standards, Bellamy can't buy a goal, age is catching up with Hyppia, etc. This is dragging down the performance levels generally and confidence is low when we're not playing at Anfield.

[Cuchullainns Bhoy]

''I think is that we have too many players who are out of form currently''

Yes, that is the problem and the current squad depth in terms of quality players that will take a leading role or have leading roles exected of them is lowered in comparison with Man U and Chelsea.

Take the Top four teams in England:

Man Utd:
Made signings over the summer and released players.
Man U look to Rooney and Giggs as well as Gary Neville for the leading roles, at the moment they are in form and Man U are refelcting that, also other smaller players have began to take more serious roles when it is not expected of them - Vidic, Scholes.
Should these top players drop in form the league position will inevitably be affected dropping thme to 2nd.

Chelsea:
Made two world class signings over the summer.
Teams like Chelsea are able to gel well together but in terms of leaders the start of this year would have seen Ballack and Sheva as being the main men on the squad with Terry and Lampard, As it stands Sheva and Ballack are still settling but again like Man U other players are filling lead roles boots, Didier Drogba (love him or hate him) and probably joint best this year Essien.
Unlike Man U if and is the current situations the big players have not hit form but when they do the league position will be bolstered which is why Chelsea will be champios again.

Arsenal:
Made their signings also.
Again simillar to Man U Asrenal look to big players to take the lead role, Henry Lehmann.
This year has seen quality signings in Rosicky and Gallas, these players are joined by others who are taking lead roles but are not outstanding which means a drop in form will no unsteady the progress of the team and therefore league position will be maintained possibly 3rd come end of season.



Now Liverpool,
Made signings over the summer which appear to be short term solutions. Bellamy and Fowler(last year) as well as Gonzales.
These players cannot take lead roles as it is not expected of them to do so. This leaves the 'old faithfuls' Sissoko and Gerrard. The Problem now is that Sissoko has been sidelined which leaves the pressure direct on Gerrard to bolster Liverpool as a team. Liverpool need more natural leaders. As stated liverpool are knockout cup champions as a big performance can be gained for these matches but it is about maintaining the form and big performances if the premierhsip is their goal.
Solution, play Gerrard where he is best suited to regain a bit of confidence in the team, let him leads as a leader and see if the other players around him can step up to the mark (Kuyt, Reina, Carragher etc.) as it will be needed should Gerrards poor form continue.
Verdict: Too reliant on Central Players and no fringe players make long/short term progress as leaders. They lack the Essiens and Scholes, consistently good players which will hit patches of good form, and to do this less rotation and let the plaers gel, especially in the run up to Christmas to get back on track and compete for European placement, possibly 5th this year.

Only a guess but i think thats whats holding up Liverpools league progression.

[GalwayBayBoy]

In mitigation we have had the hardest start in terms of league fixtures of any team in the Premiership. We've played Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Bolton all away from home. Arguably the five hardest away fixtures in the premiership for us. Still the performances have been well below par in those games but I still expect us to improve and to get a Champions League place especially given our easier run of games in the 2nd half of the season. Apart from that we're looking at the cups again.

[cavanmaniac]

Posted this on another forum in response to yet ANOTHER article lazily suggesting that simply moving Gerrard to the centre will be the solution to all our woes. IMHO Liverpool are stuck right in a nasty rut and moving Gerrard about won't fix it:

+++++++++

All this weeping and whining and moaning about Gerrard in the centre is just masking the real problem at Liverpool IMO, and that problem is Benitez himself and his strait-jacket negative approach.

It might seem sacrilege to question a man who took us to a Champions League, but am I the only one who can see all too many parallels between himself and Houllier? Just like GH in that summer when we were supposed to be going on to challenge for a title, he's made some signings that aren't working. Just like that season, title aspirations were rapidly revised downwards to battling for fourth place, but most of all, we're still playing like a Houllier team – functional, systematic, over burdened with 'tactics' and with no spark, life or fizz whatsoever.

We're robotic and seem to be playing to a rigid system. We have wingers who receive the ball, put their foot on it, and pass backwards into midfield who then pass it back to Hyppia or Carragher, who then hoof it back to the opposition. Our players seem petrified of taking a chance at attacking the opposition for fear of losing the ball so you get the shuffling huff and puff we got against Arsenal last week. If you didn't know the score and looked in you'd never have guessed Liverpool were trailing in the game such was their lack of urgency and forward momentum. All the spark and spontaneity seems to be coached out of our players. Look at Bellamy this season and compare him to last, look how Morientes has blossomed away from Benitez' over cautious approach and stultifying tactics, look how Pennant has regressed from last year even in a poor team like Birmingham.

As soon as we go 1-0 down I just know it's all over. Our turgid gameplan is totally predicated on not conceding first which might have been alright back when the defence was solid but it's far from it now and we're in major trouble any time we let a goal in. The loss of Hammann, who was one of the real heroes of Istanbul, is exposing our defence for what it is – porous when not shielded by an expert holding midfielder.

Forget about Gerrard on the right, that's just the press obsessing about a big name England player and missing the very real factors that are under their noses.

[GalwayBayBoy]

The only thing about leaving Gerrard on the right is that IMO he's not even trying in that position anymore. Against Arsenal I thought he looked completely disinterested until he got moved into the middle. In his head he's given up on right midfield.

Do agree with a lot of what you said. Our play is so static it's untrue. Players are sticking to their positions and nobody is making runs. No movement in the team whatsoever. Full-backs are barely getting past half-way, midfielders are not making runs into the box, etc.

[AZOffaly]

Cavan maniac, whatever about the selection/rotation policies, the poor form or whatever the statement that when Liverpool concede it is over is not borne out by the facts. Granted they have started this season spectacularly badly away from home, but under Houllier there was a stat something like Liverpool never won a game from behind. That has changed under Benitez, numerous time.

I'm with BC, and the more cautious members here. Let's not get carried away. LFC has reached a plateau, but with the new signings, a tough away first half of the premiership and the heavy schedule with CL group games, I always thought there was going to be a poor to middling start to the season.

I agree that there is something wrong, but to be honest I'd prefer to let Rafa sort it out, and I'd also prefer him to at most buy one or two new players over the January and Summer transfer seasons. Last summer gone by, there was too many holes that needed to be plugged, and most of us were fairly happy with the likes of Bellemy, Gonzalez, Kuyt and Pennant. But that many players coming into a team is always going to take time to bed in.

So I say, be patient, look for a much better run from here to April/May, and most importantly let the team bed in.

I would prefer Benitez to have a core, settled team of 8-9 players, with only 2 or 3 changes, maybe the likes of Pennant, Gonzalez, Garcia, Aurelio, etc, but all in all I am willing to see how this team finishes the season, and how they start the next one.

Biut no more buying 5 or 6 squad players.

[cavanmaniac]

That has changed under Benitez, numerous time.

It did initially and believe me nobody was more delighted with that one development than me, it totally illustrated a major shift in emphasis in the team.

But now I'm equally depressed because I think this season we've somehow regressed to be a carbon copy of Houllier's Liverpool and worryingly there's no change in sight just yet.

I agree we should all hold fast and not push the panic button for the reasons you expressed, but I am definitey very worried.

[magpie seanie]

Liverpool should sell Gerrard at Christmas before people cop on that he's actually not that good/finished - the same way Ferguson got rid of Beckham in the nick of time (he should have sold him a couple of years earlier when he stopped trying against Madrid in a CL game at OT). Gerrard simply doesn't have the stomach and professionalism to be the player 'pool fans claim he is. Some clowns in Spain with more money than sense would be the ones to offload him to, i.e. Real Madrid, though that said Capello would need to get sacked first.

Its a long time since I've seen Liverpool as lacking in huger and bite as in recent weeks (against the better sides).

Failing that Liverpool could try to get the back pass rule changed back again to its original state. Barwick might be able to get the ball rolling on that with the FA.

[BenDover]

Seanie if Liverpool want to sell Gerrard I'm sure Utd would gladly take him of their hands. (oh how I wish they would)

From watching the match on Sunday Liverpool were brutal imho! If i was Benitez, Gonzalez would get a toe in the hole back to where he came from. Pennant alot like Richardson is way below the standard expected for a top team. As for the Freak up front why not give Bellamy a run alongside Kuyt. The man must be kicking himself watching that shite every week. Just my opinion!

[magpie seanie]

I don't think United would be interested in someone who would be overpriced for the bench (before the flaming starts who would you drop?) and anyway - there's no way they'd have the money for him.

[BenDover]

I'd swap ye Carrick for him anyday but I think that Scholes doesn't have that many yrs left in him so he could replace him but like you say Gerrards way of the pace at the minute whereas Scholesy is on top of his game

[Spiritof98]

Magpie, i have to agree with Ben ther I feel you're being a bit harsh on Gerrard, he a quality player who is going through a minor slump albeit his wife is shagging and snorting town and country and he's being played out of position. Id have him at utd no problem.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Liverpool should sell Gerrard at Christmas before people cop on that he's actually not that good/finished

He scored 23 goals from midfield last season (mainly from right midfield) and won a ridiculous amount games for Liverpool. Not even the staunchest Man U fanboy would say that Gerrard is no good at playing association football or that he's finished at 26 years of age. Ferguson would probably paint his arse yellow and walk naked from Manchester to Liverpool to get him in a United jersey.

He's a moody character though and plainly not in good form at present but if every club sold their best players the minute they hit a bit of bad form then where would they be?