Down Club Hurling & Football

[RadioGAAGAA]

so underage success means f**k all in the grand scheme of things.

Its not the be-all and end-all - particularly if you term success as provincial or AI titles.

That said, you simply aren't gonna go from consistently getting turfed out in R1 of the minor championship for years to your seniors winning AIs.


Your looking on average your underage setup to give your senior panel 2 players a year. Some years you might end up with 4 or 5 making the step up, others none. The good years should see a decent championship run (if not a win due to possibly an overall weak team with a few stars) - but 4 or 5 players fit to backbone an AI should be able to carry a minor team to a win or two.

We aren't doing that.

[Johnnysboys]

Pete McGrath
Shane Mulholland
Wee James
Patrick Cunningham

That's who you are saying were disasters. Who else out there would've done better? And if Patrick and his team step down - who is next?? Did you ever just think maybe we don't have the players? I'd say if you went through the whole county senior squad of the last 4/5 years - every player has been a part of the Mourne Academy.  That's hardly a shambles...

[downtothecore]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

[Johnnysboys]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

CL and MC Didn play any of the big guns in championship either. I feel if u go back a few pages u will see this conversation has happened.

[snoopdog]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

the 2020 minors were supposedly the best around and mccartan and poacher couldn't get the team to string a pass together.

[downtothecore]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

[Hard2Listen2]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

the 2020 minors were supposedly the best around and mccartan and poacher couldn't get the team to string a pass together.

To be fair with covid both 2020 & 2021 were very difficult seasons for all teams. No judgement should be made based on those two years.

[Johnnysboys]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

So now winning doesn't really matter - we were very competitive against a team in the AI final.. There are lots and lots of people who simply won't be happy u til Laverty gets the senior job. Then they will find a new angle to complain about.

[manwithnoplan]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

So now winning doesn't really matter - we were very competitive against a team in the AI final.. There are lots and lots of people who simply won't be happy u til Laverty gets the senior job. Then they will find a new angle to complain about.

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

[downtothecore]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

[rosskarr]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

The job is currently not available.

[Hard2Listen2]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

The job is currently not available.

Does James have any set length of time on his agreement?

I thought he'd taken it for a year to buy time for a more long term management team to be found.

[Johnnysboys]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.
[/quote]

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.

[manwithnoplan]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.
[/quote]

Nobody said it's "all good" but the likes of yourself seem to just love getting the boot in whatever the situation may be. Does this whole attitude stem from an inherent belief that Down have a devine right to be winning regularly? When in truth only a few counties can win something each year, and all have had peaks and troughs, some like ourselves longer than others, but sport is generally cyclical anyway.

[thewobbler]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.

Nobody said it's "all good" but the likes of yourself seem to just love getting the boot in whatever the situation may be. Does this whole attitude stem from an inherent belief that Down have a devine right to be winning regularly? When in truth only a few counties can win something each year, and all have had peaks and troughs, some like ourselves longer than others, but sport is generally cyclical anyway.
[/quote]

I'd tend to agree with this statement when it comes to sport. When people describe eg Man City "only" winning the league as a disappointing season, it makes my blood boil. The expectations can never marry the reality.

But 23 years without an Ulster minor title, for a county as populous and football focused as Down, suggests it's more than a cycle.

Over the course of this period, at minor level we said goodbye to the "always competitive" tier inhabited by Tyrone, Derry and Donegal, then almost unflinchingly bypassed the "occasionally competitive" tier where you'd find Monaghan, Armagh and Cavan, and landed head on in with the also-rans of Fermanagh and Antrim (and tbf, Fermanagh do punch quite well when their players align).

The current Down senior football team now fully reflects that descent. The two go hand in hand, except a decade apart.

It's an enormous issue for our county.  Down going (at least) 24 years between minor titles is beyond a statistical anomaly at this stage.