Quinn Insurance in Administration

[orangeman]

7 years doesn't seem like a long time to hold out for their money.

[Bogball XV]

7 years doesn't seem like a long time to hold out for their money.

Maybe it's a case of a bird in the hand OM. 

The whole thing is and was very unfortunate and maybe something will be worked out that might save many of the jobs.

Where will the jobs be going if they're moved from Enniskillen, Cavan etc?

[supersarsfields]

Not sure where the jobs will go bb. Maybe overseas call centre or blended in with their own structures. But Liberty Mutual have said they won't require the staff or local offices so would mean massive job losses. I think these job losses are the only stumbling block with the sales process at the minute as the gov have realised what sort of an impact this will have. Only for this the sale would have been completed by now.   

[orangeman]

7 years doesn't seem like a long time to hold out for their money.

Maybe it's a case of a bird in the hand OM.  The whole thing is and was very unfortunate and maybe something will be worked out that might save many of the jobs.

Where will the jobs be going if they're moved from Enniskillen, Cavan etc?

You're probably right there.

It will be an awful blow if there are to be further significant job losses in that region.

[gerry]

be a big lost for the enniskillen economy if/when it closes and with the new hospital nearing completion there is not much happening on the job front.

did you see the amount of southern cars parking outside the new hospital last week, easily out numbering local cars

[Orangemac]

Not sure where the jobs will go bb. Maybe overseas call centre or blended in with their own structures. But Liberty Mutual have said they won't require the staff or local offices so would mean massive job losses.

Where did you hear this about the local offices Supersarsfields? I know someone who works in Quinn in Cavan although they will probably be the last to hear anything.

They have been led to believe that there are 2 bids from Anglo/Liberty and Zurich. The Quinn bid collapsed because Anglo would not stump up the money required by the regulator to fix the balance sheet.

I wouldn't mind but the CEO of Liberty is from Derrynoose!

[supersarsfields]

<sup>Quinn considers challenge to group's administration order

Thursday January 13 2011

  SEAN Quinn may challenge Quinn Insurance's descent into administration if Anglo Irish Bank insists on excluding the businessman's family from a bid for the stricken insurer.

The news comes ahead of a crunch meeting between Anglo executives and Mr Quinn's lieutenants today, where the Quinn contingent will urge Anglo to reconsider a joint proposal to take over Quinn Insurance Limited (QIL).

Anglo and the Quinn family spent more than eight months developing a joint plan to take over QIL and leverage the insurer to repay €2.8bn worth of debt owed by the Quinns.

Anglo subsequently decided to pursue a bid with US insurance giant Liberty Mutual.

"We're continually urging them to revisit it [the bid decision] and we'll be urging them to revisit it again [at today's meeting]," said Kevin Lunney, a key lieutenant of Mr Quinn and a former general manger of QIL.

If the Quinn family is unable to convince Anglo to revive the joint bid, Mr Lunney said the family would "have to give consideration to" using a legal opinion to challenge QIL's original descent into administration.

"We got that legal opinion a long time ago, but we didn't want to use it if we could pursue a strategy with Anglo [that would save the 6,000 Quinn Group jobs and guarantee repayment of the debt]," he said.

"We still don't want to go down that route, but we'd have to give it consideration . . . that's not a threat, it's just something we'd have to consider."

The legal opinion from a UK firm, seen by the Irish Independent, says the Financial Regulator should not have concluded that the €1.2bn in guarantees offered by QIL subsidiaries impinged on the insurer's solvency.

The impact of those guarantees on QIL's solvency was a key reason for the Financial Regulator's decision to put the insurer into administration last April.

Mr Lunney said the Quinn family's position might change if it was given a "satisfactory explanation" for why its bid was jettisoned in favour of a bid with Liberty Mutual.

The Quinns believe their joint Anglo bid would have secured full repayment of the €2.8bn debt within seven years, by giving Anglo 100pc of QIL's earnings and then selling the company as well as other Quinn assets.</sup>

[supersarsfields]

Not sure where the jobs will go bb. Maybe overseas call centre or blended in with their own structures. But Liberty Mutual have said they won't require the staff or local offices so would mean massive job losses.

Where did you hear this about the local offices Supersarsfields? I know someone who works in Quinn in Cavan although they will probably be the last to hear anything.

They have been led to believe that there are 2 bids from Anglo/Liberty and Zurich. The Quinn bid collapsed because Anglo would not stump up the money required by the regulator to fix the balance sheet.

I wouldn't mind but the CEO of Liberty is from Derrynoose!

This was coming from Liberty themselves as far as I know. They had said that they only wanted to keep one office in Ireland and that would be the Dublin office. The sale had been more than or less 99% done before Christmas until this came out. Then once the local politicians heard this they pulled back from it. As far as I've heard Liberty aren't interested in the UK business (This alone will mean job losses). Again it's hard to know exactly what is happening as Anglo were denying a possible deal with the Quinns existed and now their meeting with Quinn Representatives today to discuss the sale. It really is hard to keep up with!!

[orangeman]

It's time to forget about the whole argumnent here about Sean Quinn and Anglo and it's time to focus on the employees whose futures are more important than political point scoring.

[ludermor]

I suppose you will forget about Fianna Fail and the banks s well?

[seafoid]

Seanie Fitz on Quinn :

Seán Quinn: On September 11th, 2007, FitzPatrick and the then Anglo chief executive David Drumm met Seán Quinn and his associate Liam McCaffrey in the Ardboyne Hotel in Navan, Co Meath, so Quinn could tell them about his huge clandestine investment in the bank via "contracts for difference" (CFDs).
"David was more up to speed clearly about the activities of CFDs. He was bringing me because he always felt that Quinn regarded me as a superhuman, as a superhero. He wanted Quinn to see how disappointed I would be."
When FitzPatrick learned the size of the Quinn holding "I was physically shocked. I wasn't expecting that. I said: What! David said afterwards to me that he looked at [Quinn] and that he saw the surprise in Quinn's eyes at my reaction."
Fitzpatrick thought Quinn was a "real 1960s Irishman. He was one of those hail fellow well met, ah sure I will go down there and play the old cards, five or six lads for 10 bob, or whatever it was. He was always producing all that and would be nearly blessing himself. Everything will be all right. He was very human but, I didn't easily like him."
On March 25th, 2008, the four men met again, this time in a room in Buswells Hotel in Dublin. The ongoing fall in the Anglo share price was threatening the Quinn business empire and the bank. At one stage Quinn and FitzPatrick were alone in the room.
"He was very close to tears. He could see what was happening."

[bcarrier]

Seanie Fitz on Quinn :

Seán Quinn: On September 11th, 2007, FitzPatrick and the then Anglo chief executive David Drumm met Seán Quinn and his associate Liam McCaffrey in the Ardboyne Hotel in Navan, Co Meath, so Quinn could tell them about his huge clandestine investment in the bank via "contracts for difference" (CFDs).
"David was more up to speed clearly about the activities of CFDs. He was bringing me because he always felt that Quinn regarded me as a superhuman, as a superhero. He wanted Quinn to see how disappointed I would be."
When FitzPatrick learned the size of the Quinn holding "I was physically shocked. I wasn't expecting that. I said: What! David said afterwards to me that he looked at [Quinn] and that he saw the surprise in Quinn's eyes at my reaction."
Fitzpatrick thought Quinn was a "real 1960s Irishman. He was one of those hail fellow well met, ah sure I will go down there and play the old cards, five or six lads for 10 bob, or whatever it was. He was always producing all that and would be nearly blessing himself. Everything will be all right. He was very human but, I didn't easily like him."
On March 25th, 2008, the four men met again, this time in a room in Buswells Hotel in Dublin. The ongoing fall in the Anglo share price was threatening the Quinn business empire and the bank. At one stage Quinn and FitzPatrick were alone in the room.
"He was very close to tears. He could see what was happening."

WAFC that Fitzpatrick is.

[supersarsfields]

I suppose you will forget about Fianna Fail and the banks s well?

It's not really a case of forgetting about the banks. Under the current proposal by Quinns, Anglo would receive their full dept back again as well as retaining the jobs in Ireland. It will just take seven odd years which is hardly an eternity given the amounts involved. The next week or two will be make or break.

[FarneyMan]

Not sure where the jobs will go bb. Maybe overseas call centre or blended in with their own structures. But Liberty Mutual have said they won't require the staff or local offices so would mean massive job losses. I think these job losses are the only stumbling block with the sales process at the minute as the gov have realised what sort of an impact this will have. Only for this the sale would have been completed by now.

I have a number of friends and relations working for Quinns and none of them have heard this about the local offices being closed.......whats your source ?

Surely employing people in the local offices would be cheaper than employing a workforce in Dublin.....

Surely if the sale process has progressed to having 2 potentail bidders left then theres no way a deal between Anglo & Quinn can now happen............what happens with the 2 bidders left, can we just tell them to feck off we were only messing about selling.......

Ah the whole thing is a mess...............i just wish we'd soon know one way or another.......

[supersarsfields]

I don't want to go in too much on where I got my details from on here but as far as I know Brendan Smyth and the other politicians were made aware of Mutual's plan with regards to the jobs as well. In fact this was the reason the sale didn't go through in Dec as expected ( again this is from what I've heard).
With regards the sale process there's nothing to stop an Anglo Quinn bid going through if it's the best option. It wouldn't mean telling the other two bidder to "feck off" or anything. It would be simple enough to say they weren't successful. The problem is that I don't think that's going to happen so I'd be fearful of employees futures (my own included) when the sale is completed.

Like you say it would be nice to know one way or the other at this stage.