Messages

Ireland is a British isle whether you like it or not and you don't have to be born on the island of Great Britain to be British.

Just as you don't have to be born in Germany to be German.

Ireland will be around when Londonderry, the OO and the whole sad sick sectarian NI province will be viewed in the same light as East Germany and Biafra.

You are of purest Gaelic blood?

I imagine not, who is? Whatever blood I have and whereever those ancestors came from, I now identify with Ireland and not the places they came from.

I am British first and foremost with the distinction of beng born in Ireland from a line of people born in Ireland dating back hundreds of years and am proud to be Irish.

Stop talking nonsense, if you are proud to be Irish then how could you be British first and foremost.

Is that my forefathers or your's or both on both sides?

It may have been your forefathers, but it wasn't mine as you British didn't manage to massacre my ancestors, which is fortunate otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Irish people getting a good Rogering from the chosen elect.

Red, white and blue, as you would expect.

He may not even want to play and he comes in a sector of the field where we already have options. An new Ronan Clarke, a truly class forward that could win his own ball would be really useful.

Potentially great news for Armagh. Good to see that it is not polluting a Down thread, although Cúig huaire will probably complain about a new Armagh thread! 

Dyas and Clarke probably have enough money put aside to enjoy university and play a bit of round ball, with long term careers at the end of it.

Is it possible to have a thread on the gaa board that doesnt end up about Armagh?

Yes.

http://www.insideireland.ie/index.cfm/section/news/ext/ibec003/category/1087

IBEC survey, one fifth of companies have reduced wages. A bit less than the 100% of wage cuts in the public sector.

There was a good standard in the senior game, but the penalty was poorly taken. If the Dubs had just knocked it over the bar then it might have ended a draw.

Americans with an ounce of wit,

Is that a large number?

Personally I think they should introduce grammes of wit.

[Summit in sight]

Sunday Tribune take on things


1. Kerry (+2 from start of championship)
For the majority of this decade we've witnessed the artist at work. This time around we saw the grifter and it's just as impressive in its own less obvious way. Just three of the side that started the league final began the All Ireland in the same position and while reinventing a team in the off-season is a challenge, to do it through a summer where confidence is shattered is unheralded. Add to that the fact that the two marquee players in Darragh Ó Sé and Colm Cooper weren't near All Star form and it's even more of an achievement. Much like what happened with Tyrone last year, the lesser lights shone brightly as Tom O'Sullivan, Griffin (both right), McCarthy, Scanlon and Walsh became the unlikely heroes. Tribune rating 88/100

2. Cork (+1)
If Conor Counihan was building from the back then he succeeded up to a point. And that point was the half-forward line. Six points in 60 minutes of the final showed that even though this side has brilliantly blended Tyrone's running game with Armagh's hardness, that can only get you so far and Canty and Co will never cross the finishing line until they find some scorers. Look at it this way, how many of Cork's six forwards from the final would make the Kerry side? Colm O'Neill (right) looks set to develop into a blue-chip marksman but one is not enough and while Paul Kerrigan and Patrick Kelly will learn from this experience, Pearse O'Neill looks no more than a third midfielder while Daniel Goulding and Donncha O'Connor have enough to follow but are too limited to lead all the way. Rating 84/100

3. Tyrone (-2)
Had you told us before John Bannon threw in the first ball in Ulster that Stephen O'Neill, Owen Mulligan and Kevin Hughes would all get back towards their best, we'd have told you Tyrone would be All Ireland champions. But things worked out the opposite to Kerry in that the supporting cast gave some poor performances as Tommy McGuigan, Collie McCullough, Joe McMahon and Enda McGinley all regressed. Tyrone didn't disappear and gap years like this have taught us they'll be back but there is now a slight softness in this side, forged in the fact that they are lauded more in their province than Kerry are in their own backyard. For that to change, a new generation needs to start populating the bench and Mickey Harte has already hinted at involuntary retirements. Rating 81/100

Summit in sight

4. Dublin (+1)
Not a bad bunch of players, just mentally weak and Pat Gilroy needs to teach this team to walk the tightrope without a safety net and find a full-back line. Bernard Brogan is a superstar but with that porous back three, no Whelan and possibly no Ryan, it's doubtful if they can keep pulling through Leinster. Need a big league. Rating 72/100

5. Kildare (+5)
If Dermot Earley can keep going at the same pace, Alan Smith and James Kavanagh continue their progression and John Doyle returns to form, Leinster is there. But it was there this year too and Kieran McGeeney knows his side need to stop being entertaining nearly men and get some goods for their cash. Rating 71/100

6. Mayo (+1)
Must stop picking the best 15 players in the county and instead pick the 15 that will do a job. We've suggested Peter Ford before as a selector because this group need some steel before there's to be any success. Now or never for John O'Mahony but doubts remain over his ability to operate in this age. Rating 67/100

7. Meath (+5)
Robbie O'Malley helped them get tighter at the back as they leaked just 12.5 points a game all summer and Eamonn O'Brien realised the forward potential after getting it so wrong early on. But they haven't reached a Leinster semi-final since 2004 or final since 2001 and those foundations must be laid before serious building takes place. Rating 66.5/100

8. Derry (-2)
Did themselves no favours with internal strife. Must stop peering at their neighbours manicured lawn while their own grows wild but that'll be easier said than done as Chrissy McKaigue moves to Sydney, Seán Marty Lockhart, Enda Muldoon and Paddy Bradley move towards the end and the half-forward line doesn't move at all. Rating 65/100

9. Monaghan (-1)
No shortage of cooks in the kitchen now that Paul Grimley's arrived, yet we're expecting the same reheated meal. Near misses turned to bitterness over Joe Brolly's partisan actions during the year but this is now a team on the slide and even the toughest fighter can't keep getting back up off the canvas. Rating 64/100

10. Galway (-6)
We've doubts that Joe Kernan can get anywhere near the same commitment out of this bunch as he did when moulding Armagh. At least the players can no longer blame the manager as they did with Liam Sammon and Peter Ford. Need to lose Pádraic Joyce and gain some toughness. Fascinating future after wretched 2009. Rating 61/100

11. Donegal (No change)
Those defeats will do far more damage than those wins and most worrying was the complete lack of interest from the off against Cork. Two star players in Michael Murphy and Karl Lacey, a whole lot of wasted potential and a ticking time bomb as civil war is never far away. We admire but don't envy John Joe Doherty. Rating 59/100

12. Armagh (-3)
Swimming against the tide. A minor All Ireland bodes well but for now this group must cling onto the coattails of the best. That two-man full-forward line is far too predictable and while we've heard a lot about Kieran Toner and Charlie Vernon, they again failed to deliver. Next man in won't provide success but must provide stability. Rating 58.5/100

High Hopes

13. Antrim (+12)
Where do you go next if dumped by Angelina Jolie? That's where Antrim now find themselves after awaking from their dream and finding themselves with nothing to show but one All Star nomination. Need to get used to life up the food chain and must avoid a Sligo 2008-style collapse. After all, it took them long enough to get here. Rating 48/100

14. Limerick (+7)
Body may be willing but the mind can't be after the decade they've endured. Began the '00s with heartbreak, they could have ended them with either a Munster title or last-four place. Instead they are left battling with rugby for Stephen Kelly and hurling for Stephen Lucey, both needed to help John Galvin and Ian Ryan. Rating 47.5/100

15. Down (-1)
Now that the new broom is sweeping, it's best to forget about Enniskillen and Aughrim. Showed enough against Laois to remind us all that at their best, could become Ulster's number two team but James McCartan must offer far more inspiration, direction and vision than Ross Carr did. Martin Clarke's return will help him no end. Rating 46/100

16. Sligo (+4)
Once they look past David Kelly's penalty, they'll see some green shoots and the prospect of future growth. With Kelly, Adrian Marren and Mark Brehony providing massive energy, Kevin Walsh turned the rest into a solid, well-drilled outfit. Connacht's number three and capable of a shock there next season. Rating 45/100

17. Wicklow (+7)
Played six, won four, lost two (one after extra time). Never thought we'd see their summer record read as such. In Ciarán Hyland and Leighton Glynn they have two top-class players and in James Stafford and Seánie Furlong they have two handfuls. Need to develop the squad depth and get promoted before aiming for the stars again. Rating 44.5/100

18. Laois (-1)
The problem is a culture of arrogance but can they accept that? Kildare had similar raw materials but in the Leinster semi-final Laois's laziness over the year was on public display and even Mick O'Dwyer and Liam Kearns have alluded to that non-existent work ethic. If heads don't shrink, they'll burst, and a generation will be lost. Rating 42/100

19. Fermanagh (-4)
Best days gone but may be one more bite in the old dog. They need to avoid the presumption that what once was automatically will be again. Mark Murphy and Ryan McCluskey can't be parachuted in late but their league return combined with Barry Owens' and Marty McGrath's fitness leaves them sturdy and with self-belief. Rating 41.5/100

20. Westmeath (-4)
The meanest defence in Ireland in 2008 turned over an average of 23 points per championship game this time. Never recovered from the plague of league injuries and results. Brendan Hackett's appointment showed thinking outside the box but he'll have to do plenty of that to turn them around, particularly their attack. Rating 41/100

21. Wexford (-8)
The third of the 2008 breakthrough teams and it's ominous the other two are directly above them on this list. Matty Forde's return makes them a different team but in 2008 in Leinster they conceded 21 points a game, that trend continued this time and there seems no solution to the full-back and half-back problems. Rating 40/100

22. Tipperary (-4)
Another year without a championship win would have wiped out the benefit of their back-to-back promotions. It's why that fiery, one-point win over Louth means so much. The underage success, strength of opposition come spring and twin strike force of Grogan and Coen should see them challenge to become Munster's third team. Rating 38/100

23. Roscommon (+3)
Summer saw them bottom out but the two games against Wexford saw the start of the recovery too. That took guts but they and Donie Shine will only get you so far. Fergal O'Donnell badly needs to find some ball winners if they are to compete for promotion although that may be a few years off yet. Rating 35/100

24. Cavan (-1)
A county living 50 years in the past and that's nothing to do with their spending. Quite why so many wanted Tommy Carr out is beyond us, after all a victory over Fermanagh makes it a decent summer regardless of what followed. An average team, a couple of bright lights and a desperate need to build. Rating 34.5/100

Base Camp

25. Offaly (-3)
The river bed is dusty and dry and there's little coming through for the future. Were forced to bring in Neville Coughlan, Ciarán McManus and Shane Sullivan versus Kildare but at least Tom Cribbin brought discipline. Are going to have to endure some heavy beatings while sticking with the next generation sooner rather than later. Rating 27/100

26. Louth (-7)
It's 28 years since they won a Leinster under-21, 28 since they were even in a provincial minor final and 56 since they won it. Forget about the senior side, there's the real problem. Eamonn McEneaney had an overall plan for Louth but ran out of energy. The next man must take that baton and run. Rating 26.5/100

27. Longford (No change)
Turned the season around after losing out to Wicklow (not unexpectedly) and the Leitrim win and Kerry performance has bought Glenn Ryan some time to win a game in Leinster. Biggest problem is midfield but in truth this group is punching at their weight and bar some big days out in Pearse Park, it's unfair to expect more. Rating 25.5/100

28. Waterford (No change)
Sad ending to an impossible summer where they faced only Cork and Meath. John Kiely, one of the few characters left in an increasingly mundane intercounty scene, was treated appallingly by his county board. Shame on them but thanks for the memories and serious improvements to football in Waterford, Jackson. Rating 24.5/100

29. Leitrim (No change)
Give Moran and Morrison time. Last league they used 38 players and were never going to compete without 2008 Connacht top scorer Emlyn Mulligan, a supreme talent that kicked over 50 per cent of their scores last spring. His absence showed as they exited the championship with totals of 2-9 and 0-10. Rating 24/100

Scrabbling in the foothills

30. Carlow (+1)
Crawled their way to the top of the bottom feeders and Luke Dempsey clearly has a plan in place. With Brendan Murphy back from Australia, with Thomas Walsh potentially back from Wicklow and with everyone at last beginning to pull in the one direction, they can build on their fine efforts against Louth and Donegal. Rating 15/100

31. Clare (-1)
Like Carlow, can take some positives from a trip to Donegal. Unlike Carlow, not all working together to get better. Being just a winnable game away from a Munster final didn't galvanise them this year and still without a manager, things aren't getting better. The one plus is they can't get much worse. Rating 14/100

32. London (No change)
Figures from the CSO prove we now have more emigration than immigration and with four years to run in the current government's term, Gaelic games in England should be booming by then. Won a couple of league games this time around and are only a decent draw away from a famous championship win. Rating 13/100

33. New York (No change)
Now that the Celtic Tiger is road kill, most have realised there's more to life than earning and more to summer than winning. To those who called for their exclusion, a trip there will show what their yearly fixture means to the Irish community although they should be passed around the provinces. Rating 6/100

34. Kilkenny (No change)
For all the talk about being a great GAA county, this suggests otherwise and for all the talk about how they've mastered the most skilled of sports, you'd think they could field a competitive 15 here. But while losing them is the easy option for Kilkenny GAA, supporting and working with them is the sensible option. Rating 0.5/100

Perhaps Derry (formerly Londonderry during periods of geryymanded unionist rule) would reflect the situation.

I think the proposal in Derry to call the greater city Derry, but to talk about the Walled City of LondonDerry for the historic section of the city, is a reasonable one that respects the history of the place.

Ireland is not a state but simply an island.

As is Britain, perhaps this clarity would help discussions.