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Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

Voted no, I hope people see sense and make that decision based on their OWN reasons

What is mandatory? If you expect to be allowed mingle with other people then you should be required to take reasonable steps to avoid infecting them.

It's certainly anti-science to mandate people who have already acquired a natural immunity to be vaccinated. Such people who have been infected,  who have developed symptoms  and fully recovered in a timely fashion, have already developed a much superior type of immunity than what the vaccination offers.  To mandate such people to be vaccinated is not only anti-science but more importantly  anti-Darwin, the beloved godperson  of the 'science of evolution'.

The vaccination method certainly has benefits, but more so  for our elders and those who are health compromised.

In the north if you can show a positive result with Covid you are exempt

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 11:13:23 PM
In the north if you can show a positive result with Covid you are exempt

A positive result is one thing,  a natural acquired immunity is another thing.
And the question is  about mandatory vaccine for all.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 10:52:57 PM
Voted no, I hope people see sense and make that decision based on their OWN reasons

Good to see. It's important that we work this thing out together. Both sides of the argument mean well if you look hard enough at it.

Quote from: Main Street on November 21, 2021, 11:15:29 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 11:13:23 PM
In the north if you can show a positive result with Covid you are exempt

A positive result is one thing,  a natural acquired immunity is another thing.
And the question is  about mandatory vaccine for all.

I voted no to this poll, you do what your intelligence tells you to do.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 11:08:51 PM
What is mandatory? If you expect to be allowed mingle with other people then you should be required to take reasonable steps to avoid infecting them.

Sorry i should have explained this better. It is based on the Austrian proposal.
      A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

Who remembers when a number of parents started a campaign to stop the MMR jab? The result was of course a spike in mumps and measles. It took the spike for the idiots to see sense. Idiots.

Austria has a lower percentage of vaccinated than Ireland. They are on a very shaky scraw.

The problem is the transmissibility of Delta. The R number is estimated at 1.2 to 1.3 in Irekand. A cut in social interactions of 30% is required.

I don't think a vaccine mandate will be required in Ireland if we can get the R number down.

However if the choice was between a vaccine mandate and a lockdown I would choose a vaccine mandate.

To be perfectly honest I think anyone pushing for a vaccine mandate is worse than any of the anti everything loons. In fact vaccine passports and mandates are exactly what the loons and plenty of sensible people predicted at the start of the vaccine rollout. You are making the loons argument for them.

It should be absolutely no one elses business who is vaccinated or not. If you are happy to take the vaccine by all means take it, it seems to be very effective at reducing symptoms at least and keeping you out of hospital, I've had both jabs and would encourage anyone to get jabbed. None of my business however who does or doesn't get it, totally personal choice and should have no consequences whatsoever if you chose not to be vaccinated.

Get your vaccine, get your booster if you want and if you're still worried about covid stay at home.

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 22, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
To be perfectly honest I think anyone pushing for a vaccine mandate is worse than any of the anti everything loons. In fact vaccine passports and mandates are exactly what the loons and plenty of sensible people predicted at the start of the vaccine rollout. You are making the loons argument for them.

It should be absolutely no one elses business who is vaccinated or not. If you are happy to take the vaccine by all means take it, it seems to be very effective at reducing symptoms at least and keeping you out of hospital, I've had both jabs and would encourage anyone to get jabbed. None of my business however who does or doesn't get it, totally personal choice and should have no consequences whatsoever if you chose not to be vaccinated.

Get your vaccine, get your booster if you want and if you're still worried about covid stay at home.

That is simply not true, if a large minority of peoples refusal to get vaccinated is having a detrimental effect on society - leading to death, over run health care centres etc then it is absolutely the concern of government and society. I dont think anyone should be forcefully taken and injected but I do believe you should be made to feel uncomfortable and be refused access to bars, restaurants and places of work. There is ZERO evidence of harm from the vaccines and Karen on Facebook cannot be allowed hold the country to ransom.

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 22, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
To be perfectly honest I think anyone pushing for a vaccine mandate is worse than any of the anti everything loons. In fact vaccine passports and mandates are exactly what the loons and plenty of sensible people predicted at the start of the vaccine rollout. You are making the loons argument for them.

It should be absolutely no one elses business who is vaccinated or not. If you are happy to take the vaccine by all means take it, it seems to be very effective at reducing symptoms at least and keeping you out of hospital, I've had both jabs and would encourage anyone to get jabbed. None of my business however who does or doesn't get it, totally personal choice and should have no consequences whatsoever if you chose not to be vaccinated.

Get your vaccine, get your booster if you want and if you're still worried about covid stay at home.

We really need to understand where infections are happening. Given the high levels of vaccination this is likely to be more fruiful than going after the unvaccinated. But if necessary, locking down the unvaccinated would be easier to organise . 8)

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 22, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
To be perfectly honest I think anyone pushing for a vaccine mandate is worse than any of the anti everything loons. In fact vaccine passports and mandates are exactly what the loons and plenty of sensible people predicted at the start of the vaccine rollout. You are making the loons argument for them.

It should be absolutely no one elses business who is vaccinated or not. If you are happy to take the vaccine by all means take it, it seems to be very effective at reducing symptoms at least and keeping you out of hospital, I've had both jabs and would encourage anyone to get jabbed. None of my business however who does or doesn't get it, totally personal choice and should have no consequences whatsoever if you chose not to be vaccinated.

Get your vaccine, get your booster if you want and if you're still worried about covid stay at home.

I respectfully disagree. If I'm going to a restaurant or to a concert I'd like to know that the people sitting around me have been fully vaccinated or at the least have properly done a test to prove they haven't got Covid. I'd consider it my business to know that. If I'm working in an office or inside environment I'd like to know the people sitting in the same office all day have taken all precautions ie they've been vaccinated. That is absolutely my business because I'm in the business of trying to keep myself healthy.

What vaccines are currently mandatory?

It's a no from me.  I'm double jabbed and will have no problem getting a booster.  I have no interest in forcing this on other people.

and we all know the tds wont be doing it if they want it so much why dont they personally administer it they wont they get their foot soldiers to do it

Quote from: lenny on November 22, 2021, 11:13:33 AM

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 22, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
To be perfectly honest I think anyone pushing for a vaccine mandate is worse than any of the anti everything loons. In fact vaccine passports and mandates are exactly what the loons and plenty of sensible people predicted at the start of the vaccine rollout. You are making the loons argument for them.

It should be absolutely no one elses business who is vaccinated or not. If you are happy to take the vaccine by all means take it, it seems to be very effective at reducing symptoms at least and keeping you out of hospital, I've had both jabs and would encourage anyone to get jabbed. None of my business however who does or doesn't get it, totally personal choice and should have no consequences whatsoever if you chose not to be vaccinated.

Get your vaccine, get your booster if you want and if you're still worried about covid stay at home.

I respectfully disagree. If I'm going to a restaurant or to a concert I'd like to know that the people sitting around me have been fully vaccinated or at the least have properly done a test to prove they haven't got Covid. I'd consider it my business to know that. If I'm working in an office or inside environment I'd like to know the people sitting in the same office all day have taken all precautions ie they've been vaccinated. That is absolutely my business because I'm in the business of trying to keep myself healthy.

I actually disagree, ive had my 2 jabs and had my booster last week. I see it as my duty for my loved ones and people who are affected by my actions. I dont know the medical status of every person I interact with, some things are private. I want everyone to be vaccinated but if they aren't I dont think they should be excluded from society. There also needs to be a distinction made between being anti vax and being against a Covid passport. I am 100% for passports but honestly think introducing the Covid pass is too far. Now, going on holiday in sept I used a Covid pass, I am not saying if it comes in to force I won't play ball but I just think its too far.

When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Me too. But I don't ask them if they've had a jab.

The point of the vaccine is that it stops or greatly reduces the chance of you getting seriously ill. Going by infection rates it isn't much use at stopping covid spreading so unless you're going to become a hermit you'll likely be exposed at some point, you would imagine most of us already have been at some point.

Quote from: Main Street on November 21, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
It's certainly anti-science to mandate people who have already acquired a natural immunity to be vaccinated. Such people who have been infected,  who have developed symptoms  and fully recovered in a timely fashion, have already developed a much superior type of immunity than what the vaccination offers.  To mandate such people to be vaccinated is not only anti-science but more importantly  anti-Darwin, the beloved godperson  of the 'science of evolution'.

The vaccination method certainly has benefits, but more so  for our elders and those who are health compromised.

Your post is complete nonsense.

So called "natural immunity" is a crock. Vaccination is the only way to go.

https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1455263624730087424

People with previous COVID-19 (natural immunity) were 5x more likely to be hospitalized with re-infection COVID, compared to vaxxed people. Dramatic finding. Most extensive data on this topic in an American population, & over a substantial period of time.
https://cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm?s_cid=mm7044e1_w

Quote from: Thastheball on November 23, 2021, 11:40:14 AM
Ireland the most vaccinated place in Europe and with the highest covid rates and people want covid passports for ?? Sure almost everyone will have their passports and be free to pass on their covid to everyone. The movie Dumb & Dumber jumps out.

Ireland is not the most vaccinated place in Europe.

Basic fact fail.

Ireland does not have the highest Covid rates in Europe. We're not even in the top 10 in Europe for case rates at the moment.

Basic fact fail.

Our pandemic is being driven by the young, who remain largely unvaccinated.

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 23, 2021, 11:34:30 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Me too. But I don't ask them if they've had a jab.

The point of the vaccine is that it stops or greatly reduces the chance of you getting seriously ill. Going by infection rates it isn't much use at stopping covid spreading so unless you're going to become a hermit you'll likely be exposed at some point, you would imagine most of us already have been at some point.

It also helps to burn out the virus and get rid of it. Take a look at your history, especially around TB. There are still a few loons, even now, that refuse to get that vaccination but the critical mass that do ensure that that terrible disease that killed so so many never gets a root in society again.

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

It shouldn't be compulsory, but if you choose to remain unvaccinated then restrictions should be applied to what you can do, where you can go etc? I do however agree with countries like France/Italy who have made it mandatory for health workers to get vaccinated

Quote from: LeoMc on November 22, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
What vaccines are currently mandatory?

Currently there are no vaccination schemes which are mandatory by law in either the uk or Ireland.
     However there are vaccinations which are a requirement to work in certain sectors . One example in the health services in the UK or Ireland is the Hepatitus B vaccination scheme and now covid 19 vaccination scheme (England only at present). 

Is the flu vaccine not mandatory to work in the health sector? E.g. old peoples home.

https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

This gives quite a good breakdown on mandatory/mandate vaccination schemes throughout the world.

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 23, 2021, 01:55:21 PM
Is the flu vaccine not mandatory to work in the health sector? E.g. old peoples home.

People of often get confused with the terms mandatory vs mandate. The article above explains it quite well.

Did I read that in Singapore, if your not vaccinated you have to pay for your medical treatment (if needed?)

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Covid passports may help but not the solution. Vaccine breakthrough way too common and dangerous

Mandatory vaccination won't work. Covid passports are a much better tool to engender compliance. No vaccine = no covid passport - that's a person's own look out, if you're denied entry to places because you've no covid passport, that's tough titty for you and a bonus for the vaccinated public.

Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

for an air borne respiratory virus that can infect animals too ?

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
         

if this happens then tds should put thier lives on the line if their so confident the vaccine is 100 percent put their lives on the line if anyone dies or has a severe adverse reaction then what happens is a random draw happens in the dail and whatever tds name gets drawing out they face the death penalty they want to make vaccine mandatory then put your money where your mouths are tds your confident thats its that safe then put your lives on the line i bet they wouldnt.

Quote from: Eire90 on November 24, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
if this happens then tds should put thier lives on the line if their so confident the vaccine is 100 percent put their lives on the line if anyone dies or has a severe adverse reaction then what happens is a random draw happens in the dail and whatever tds name gets drawing out they face the death penalty they want to make vaccine mandatory then put your money where your mouths are tds your confident thats its that safe then put your lives on the line i bet they wouldnt.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Tourette's is strong in you .. Adverse reaction the TD's should die!! Shut down the thread or reboot the Board after that one!

Jesus.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

Yes

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 09:47:53 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?


given the stakes politicians should face severe punishment if anyone has a death or a severe adverse reaction i bet they wont do it if they know they could face a severe penalty if someone gets hurt if they think the vaccines are 100 percent safe then put their money where there mouths are.
No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

given the stakes then politicians (TDS) should face severe punishment if someone has a severe adverse reaction  if the politicians think the vaccine is 100 percent safe then put their money where their mouths are.

Morally tds should face punishment if severe reactions also morally anyone that goes to a nightclub  or  pub even if  double  jabbed should then be socially outcast by your logic and also old people shuld be throwing out of society even if double jabbed.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 09:47:53 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

Sid I'm all for trying to get people vaccinated. But that argument doesn't stand up. There's a difference in making a decision for your children in light of their well fare and forcing adults to take a vaccine they don't want. If I decide my kids aren't allowed out this wkend as they haven't been working hard enough in school it doesn't mean I'm in favour of imprisonment of adults who don't work. The whole relationship is different.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 09:47:53 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

You mean follow a possible route like the one I already outlined and is already being employed - Covid passports?

[Mandatory vaccination won't work. Covid passports are a much better tool to engender compliance. No vaccine = no covid passport - that's a person's own look out, if you're denied entry to places because you've no covid passport, that's tough titty for you and a bonus for the vaccinated public.]

Please outline how you would plan to physically make refuseniks submit to a vaccine injection.

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

I'm all for the Vaccine I really am but it's not stopping the spread, cases are ramping up at a rapid rate again.

I think the only way you will get the case numbers down is a regiment of monitored testing a couple of times a week.

Quote from: Eire90 on November 24, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
if this happens then tds should put thier lives on the line if their so confident the vaccine is 100 percent put their lives on the line if anyone dies or has a severe adverse reaction then what happens is a random draw happens in the dail and whatever tds name gets drawing out they face the death penalty they want to make vaccine mandatory then put your money where your mouths are tds your confident thats its that safe then put your lives on the line i bet they wouldnt.

Class  ;D ;D

Quote from: StephenC on November 24, 2021, 12:07:55 PM

Quote from: Eire90 on November 24, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
if this happens then tds should put thier lives on the line if their so confident the vaccine is 100 percent put their lives on the line if anyone dies or has a severe adverse reaction then what happens is a random draw happens in the dail and whatever tds name gets drawing out they face the death penalty they want to make vaccine mandatory then put your money where your mouths are tds your confident thats its that safe then put your lives on the line i bet they wouldnt.

Class  ;D ;D

Would make for a great mini series.

They could do russian roulette like deerhunter?

Quote from: Eire90 on November 24, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
if this happens then tds should put thier lives on the line if their so confident the vaccine is 100 percent put their lives on the line if anyone dies or has a severe adverse reaction then what happens is a random draw happens in the dail and whatever tds name gets drawing out they face the death penalty they want to make vaccine mandatory then put your money where your mouths are tds your confident thats its that safe then put your lives on the line i bet they wouldnt.

Skipped English class again?

Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2021, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

I'm all for the Vaccine I really am but it's not stopping the spread, cases are ramping up at a rapid rate again.

I think the only way you will get the case numbers down is a regiment of monitored testing a couple of times a week.

+1 it is increasingly apparent that it will never work, has to be testing for now until they come up with something that does. Stop panicking and apply logic.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 11:07:46 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 09:47:53 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

You mean follow a possible route like the one I already outlined and is already being employed - Covid passports?

[Mandatory vaccination won't work. Covid passports are a much better tool to engender compliance. No vaccine = no covid passport - that's a person's own look out, if you're denied entry to places because you've no covid passport, that's tough titty for you and a bonus for the vaccinated public.]

Please outline how you would plan to physically make refuseniks submit to a vaccine injection.

Vaccine mandates do work. They've been in use in America for centuries.

Italy is currently using them.

I have no problem in saying I favour no vaccine, no job. And no welfare.

We'd soon see how "principled" the flat earthers are then.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10233341/Musician-40-suffered-brain-haemorrhage-induced-AstraZeneca-Covid-vaccine-inquest-hears.html




so was he a flat earther too you said lets see how principled flat earthers are well how about politicians face the death penalty if someone has a severe side effect why do your precious politicians get to sit back with no penalty if they think the vaccine is so safe what do they have to worry about.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 12:58:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 11:07:46 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 09:47:53 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 24, 2021, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 11:14:57 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 23, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Have you heard of anyone getting polio recently?

No. That's because 100% vaccine rollout does work.

Dunno if it that's for my benefit? It won't work because you can't force people to take it - physically (or morally).

Do you have children? If so did you have them vaccinated against various illnesses?

What has that got to do with the price of butter?  I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, it's the practicalities.  Current situation is there's millions  of militant anti-vaxxers you can't physically force vaccinate them ffs.

Would a woke Liberal like yourself advocate forcefully vaccinating refuseniks - Literally holding a person down and injecting them?

I asked you a question.

Why don't you answer it?

Yes my kids are vaccinated (& for covid), I'm not stupid nor anti-vax. I really don't see the point of your Question in this context, wasting my time is all you're doing.

Do you think mandatory vaccination for Covid in the current circumstances will work? Physically forcing people to take an injection if required?

So you forced your kids to be vaccinated. Because what else is vaccinating babies and young children?

You say morally we can't force anybody to take a vaccine.

Morally we can put in place measures which make it extremely difficult for them to function as part of society if they refuse to be vaccinated.

And given the stakes, it would be more than justified.

You mean follow a possible route like the one I already outlined and is already being employed - Covid passports?

[Mandatory vaccination won't work. Covid passports are a much better tool to engender compliance. No vaccine = no covid passport - that's a person's own look out, if you're denied entry to places because you've no covid passport, that's tough titty for you and a bonus for the vaccinated public.]

Please outline how you would plan to physically make refuseniks submit to a vaccine injection.

Vaccine mandates do work. They've been in use in America for centuries.

Italy is currently using them.

I have no problem in saying I favour no vaccine, no job. And no welfare.

We'd soon see how "principled" the flat earthers are then.

we will soon see how principled your precious politicians are if they face death penalty for any severe adverse reactions it should work both ways if you want this

so you want politicians to get away scott free if someone has an adverse reaction  you think politicians should be some sort of protected class and also the manufactures should be prosecuted aswell you want people to be principled but ohhh no precious politicians need protected from what would be state manslaughter at least if anything happens.

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Ok. Lets go with that. If its about protecting the health service and reducing numbers in ICU lets include over 75's, any body with serious underlying health conditions or particularly vulnerable groups in this passport.
         Those groups are disproportionately represented in the numbers who get seriously ill and end up in ICU with covid.
        We will simultaneously be both protecting them and reducing the strain on the health services.
         
         

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Ok. Lets go with that. If its about protecting the health service and reducing numbers in ICU lets include over 75's, any body with serious underlying health conditions or particularly vulnerable groups in this passport.
         Those groups are disproportionately represented in the numbers who get seriously ill and end up in ICU with covid.
        We will simultaneously be both protecting them and reducing the strain on the health services.
         
       

People cannot control the year they were born, they can control whether they are vaccinated.

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Ok. Lets go with that. If its about protecting the health service and reducing numbers in ICU lets include over 75's, any body with serious underlying health conditions or particularly vulnerable groups in this passport.
         Those groups are disproportionately represented in the numbers who get seriously ill and end up in ICU with covid.
        We will simultaneously be both protecting them and reducing the strain on the health services.
         
       

The over 75s have one of the highest rates of uptake of the vaccine. They, like any other age group, can spread covid and get sick from it.
The fact they are vaccinated and not putting others lives at risk means they fully deserve the freedoms afforded to all the vaccinated as they have fulfilled their moral duty to protect us all.
Age is irrelevant in this debate and no modern developed society would treat someone differently due to age.
Those who are responsible enough to try to protect others should not have any restrictions put on them due to their age.
Bit of a nonsense point in my opinion.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2021, 02:20:07 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Ok. Lets go with that. If its about protecting the health service and reducing numbers in ICU lets include over 75's, any body with serious underlying health conditions or particularly vulnerable groups in this passport.
         Those groups are disproportionately represented in the numbers who get seriously ill and end up in ICU with covid.
        We will simultaneously be both protecting them and reducing the strain on the health services.
         
       

People cannot control the year they were born, they can control whether they are vaccinated.

I thought at the core of the current government measures are primarily to reduce the strain on the health services and in particular reduce the numbers in ICU.
      Am i wrong in that assertion?
As part of that, they have identified the unvaccinated as having an greater chance of contracting covid 19 and getting seriously ill and ultimately taking up one of those icu beds and causing a greater strain on the health service. They have introduced the covid passport as a result of this.
      Now those aged over 75, those with serious underlying issues health and certain other vulnerable groups are disproportionately represented in the seriously sick and ICU occupancy in relation to covid 19 infection.
        Now if you are going on the above assertion should they not also be included on this passport (It can be called a health certification passport). Surely thats the logical step?
       Is it perhaps that the covid passport is being used as form of coercion for those unvaccinated? A punishment if you will. They deserve it. They are a pretty easy identifiable scapegoat. Probably dole scroungers anyway!
       Surely the real issue's are that the health services both north and south have been chronically underfunded for decades. Nobody could have predicted a pandemic but a properly funded and fuctioning health service would have coped much better. Ffs there have been people on trolleys at A&E every winter long before covid.
        My gripe is the trageting and stigmatising of one particular minority group in society and the removal of their liberties by government.
        Too many great men and women have sacrificed far too much, to see us piss away our freedoms and rights like this.
     
     

Much polio round your neck of the woods?

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 02:43:25 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2021, 11:43:04 AM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 08:21:02 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 23, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
When driving on the road I don't just want to drive sober I want those around me to drive sober also.

Yes this is my opinion too.
Covid can be as deadly as drink driving and probably moreso.
It's an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and with that unprecedented measures are needed. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching and dying from Covid, but don't eliminate the risk.
We all want some resemblance of pre-covid life in terms of socialising, work and holidays and the only way to get that is with everyone vaccinated, imo.
Even with that there is risk and I think we are never going to abolish covid entirely but have to learn to live with it.

If vaccines are not going to be mandatory, the ONLY option is that the unvaccinated can't socialise, work and interact with the rest of us. Controversial I know, but I think it has to be one or the other. Covid passports at a minimum but probably both mandatory vaccine and a passport to prove you've had it.
We, the public, have had the chance to be sensible by taking the vaccines and not abusing the freedoms we take for granted. But too many un-vaccinated people interacting has got us to where we are now and something has to change.
Incidentally, I know of several people with fake vaccine cards so they can go into bars in the South. Absolute sc**bag move in my opinion, but highlights the requirement for passports to be digital and controlled.

Who gets to decide which of their liberties/freedoms are removed and which they might be allowed to keep?
      Surely if the unvaccinated can't work, socialise or interact with the vaccinated it pretty much excludes them from society.
      So they can't go to work, school, public hospitals/clinics, places of worship public amenities/areas etc. I'd guess given the nature of the current voting system they wouldn't be able to vote.
      (Perhaps they might be allowed a postal ballot or maybe a seperate polling station).
       One hypothetical question for you (excluding the unvaccinated who would already be dealt by this exclusion)
          Lets just say it could be proven, that one particular cohort or group in society(even if they were vaccinated) were significantly more prone to both carching and transmittng the covid 19 virus than the general population should they also have some of their freedoms removed/curtailed?
        Surely the logic is the same? By removing that small cohort from society you are protecting the general public from the virus. You are lessening the burden on the Hospitals and in particularly the acute services in ICU.
        Of course you could use the argument that the group didnt have a choice as the unvaccinated do,  but in that case the exclusion of the the unvaccinated would then be surely seen as some form of punishment for not getting vaccinated as opposed to protecting the public health and lessening the burden on our overstretched health services. Isn't this what its all about?
       

The point I'm making is that there is an option there which would permit everyone to play a full part in society and help reduce the spread of covid. That option is the vaccine.
By not choosing to avail of that option then you are instead choosing to put other people at risk as well as yourself.

To go back to the drink driving analogy, it's illegal to drink and drive to protect other road users. It is still the responsibility of the driver to follow the law or ignore it. If they ignore by drinking and driving they put others lives at risk. There is a strong parallel here with covid vaccines.
To expand further, there is already precedent for other cohorts to not be allowed to drive. People who speed, people who have medical issues etc. So to answer your query, if there is a cohort of people who are an increased risk of spreading covid then that risk would need to be assessed and if deemed serious enough then yes, some type of measure would need to be put in place to protect the masses who avail of vaccines and follow the regulations.

I have yet to hear a good reason for not taking the vaccine. It is currently a choice, but that choice should not afford you the same freedoms as the rest of us given what we have come through so far.

Ok. Lets go with that. If its about protecting the health service and reducing numbers in ICU lets include over 75's, any body with serious underlying health conditions or particularly vulnerable groups in this passport.
         Those groups are disproportionately represented in the numbers who get seriously ill and end up in ICU with covid.
        We will simultaneously be both protecting them and reducing the strain on the health services.
         
       

The over 75s have one of the highest rates of uptake of the vaccine. They, like any other age group, can spread covid and get sick from it.
The fact they are vaccinated and not putting others lives at risk means they fully deserve the freedoms afforded to all the vaccinated as they have fulfilled their moral duty to protect us all.
Age is irrelevant in this debate and no modern developed society would treat someone differently due to age.
Those who are responsible enough to try to protect others should not have any restrictions put on them due to their age.
Bit of a nonsense point in my opinion.

To go back to your driving analogy. Its like saying a blind man is ok to drive just cause he got his eyes tested.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2021, 03:25:28 PM
Much polio round your neck of the woods?

No thankfully, But place coming down with colds. Same every winter since i can remember. Why in blazes they never came up with a cure with all the scientists and research undertaken  i'll never know. 

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 04:06:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2021, 03:25:28 PM
Much polio round your neck of the woods?

No thankfully, But place coming down with colds. Same every winter since i can remember. Why in blazes they never came up with a cure with all the scientists and research undertaken  i'll never know.

There are far too many strains of the viruses which cause colds to allow them to make an effective vaccine.

Besides, the symptoms are mild and easily treatable.

Anyone complaining about a cold needs a good slap

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

You mean the responsible caring citizens are winning.
The unvaccinated sekfish anti human disease spreaders deserve all they get!
Osterreich Abú.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2021, 06:01:12 PM
You mean the responsible caring citizens are winning.
The unvaccinated sekfish anti human disease spreaders deserve all they get!
Osterreich Abú.

thank you for making my point

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

It's this utter bulls1t from posters like yourself that doesn't allow for any kind of discussion, none. As someone said the other day, folk like yourself have been taken for a complete ride by the Karen's of this world... Wool pulled over your eyes. Hopefully the next time a doc prescribes you some medicine you tell him you'll get back to him once you've done due diligence.
PS: it's not too late. I know of 2 fairly vocal anti-vaxers who have had both jabs, but won't admit it to their new Facebook friend group, still towing the party line... Lunacy

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2021, 06:27:44 PM

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

It's this utter bulls1t from posters like yourself that doesn't allow for any kind of discussion, none. As someone said the other day, folk like yourself have been taken for a complete ride by the Karen's of this world... Wool pulled over your eyes. Hopefully the next time a doc prescribes you some medicine you tell him you'll get back to him once you've done due diligence.
PS: it's not too late. I know of 2 fairly vocal anti-vaxers who have had both jabs, but won't admit it to their new Facebook friend group, still towing the party line... Lunacy

They 'took the soup' in the fly?

Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2021, 04:42:21 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 24, 2021, 04:06:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2021, 03:25:28 PM
Much polio round your neck of the woods?

No thankfully, But place coming down with colds. Same every winter since i can remember. Why in blazes they never came up with a cure with all the scientists and research undertaken  i'll never know.

There are far too many strains of the viruses which cause colds to allow them to make an effective vaccine.

Besides, the symptoms are mild and easily treatable.

Yep, i suppose the point being the vaccination programme for the poliovirius has about as much relevance to a computer virus as it does to the covid 19 coronavirus. 
        Far more similarities with the development of vaccines and treatments for the common cold urt infections.
       
       
         

Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2021, 06:01:12 PM
You mean the responsible caring citizens are winning.
The unvaccinated sekfish anti human disease spreaders deserve all they get!
Osterreich Abú.

No harm, but you seem absolutely bonkers. And I'm one who fully supports vaccination, in case your going to brand me an anti vaxer.

I see the Slovaks (only 50% vaccinated) gone into a 2 week lockdown.
Italians blocking unvaccinated twats from a theatres etc.

Conservative woman? The worlds gone mad!

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2021, 06:27:44 PM

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

It's this utter bulls1t from posters like yourself that doesn't allow for any kind of discussion, none. As someone said the other day, folk like yourself have been taken for a complete ride by the Karen's of this world... Wool pulled over your eyes. Hopefully the next time a doc prescribes you some medicine you tell him you'll get back to him once you've done due diligence.
PS: it's not too late. I know of 2 fairly vocal anti-vaxers who have had both jabs, but won't admit it to their new Facebook friend group, still towing the party line... Lunacy

I don't do Facebook , you are in favor of prison terms for not vaccinating ?
But ye I'm the loon

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 07:07:20 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2021, 06:27:44 PM

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

It's this utter bulls1t from posters like yourself that doesn't allow for any kind of discussion, none. As someone said the other day, folk like yourself have been taken for a complete ride by the Karen's of this world... Wool pulled over your eyes. Hopefully the next time a doc prescribes you some medicine you tell him you'll get back to him once you've done due diligence.
PS: it's not too late. I know of 2 fairly vocal anti-vaxers who have had both jabs, but won't admit it to their new Facebook friend group, still towing the party line... Lunacy

I don't do Facebook , you are in favor of prison terms for not vaccinating ?
But ye I'm the loon

Yes, the post above pretty much nails it.

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 23, 2021, 01:55:21 PM
Is the flu vaccine not mandatory to work in the health sector? E.g. old peoples home.

No

Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

the totalitarians are winning I see , most would call themselves progressive liberals too .

Oh the irony of a massive Trumpbot saying that:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/22/us-list-backsliding-democracies-civil-liberties-international

US added to list of 'backsliding' democracies for first time
'Visible deterioration' in US civil liberties began in at least 2019, says international thinktank

Getting the booster tomorrow, no big deal, nothing to see here.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:21 PM
Getting the booster tomorrow, no big deal, nothing to see here.

Get it in ye. Got mine in the hospital on Monday eve. Place packed which was good to see but moved fairly quickly.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:51:02 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:21 PM
Getting the booster tomorrow, no big deal, nothing to see here.

Get it in ye. Got mine in the hospital on Monday eve. Place packed which was good to see but moved fairly quickly.

Got mine on Sunday and the 5 G coverage in the house is at the max!!

Was thinking about getting a pizza the other day and four star pizza guy just arrived!! It's as if he was reading my thoughts!

So it finished all square at the end. Thanks everybody who voted.
       
       

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2021, 09:53:25 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:51:02 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:21 PM
Getting the booster tomorrow, no big deal, nothing to see here.

Get it in ye. Got mine in the hospital on Monday eve. Place packed which was good to see but moved fairly quickly.

Got mine on Sunday and the 5 G coverage in the house is at the max!!

Was thinking about getting a pizza the other day and four star pizza guy just arrived!! It's as if he was reading my thoughts!

I laughed out so loud there, my foil hat fell off!

Only know 1 person that got booster so far-early days

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:21 PM
Getting the booster tomorrow, no big deal, nothing to see here.

but still posting about it

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

How's the energy levels Clar if you don't mind me asking?

Quote from: JoG2 on November 25, 2021, 11:20:49 AM

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

How's the energy levels Clar if you don't mind me asking?

I have improved a good bit and people say I look healthier but at same time I only walk from room to room or a bit outside the house as I don't want to push it. Going up the stairs is still a real killer. It's just going to take time but my aim is to try and start doing 15-20 min walks in January and see how that goes.

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 25, 2021, 11:20:49 AM

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

How's the energy levels Clar if you don't mind me asking?

I have improved a good bit and people say I look healthier but at same time I only walk from room to room or a bit outside the house as I don't want to push it. Going up the stairs is still a real killer. It's just going to take time but my aim is to try and start doing 15-20 min walks in January and see how that goes.

Good man, you'll know how much you can do. I know my good friend would build up her walks by counting lampposts. A higher number was a wee victory. The wee victorys all build up.

Jesus that's rough. I mind doing a climb at serious altitude and there were wee markers that you started off with count 10 and got down to 1. Sounds a bit like that. Glad you are improving anyway Clarshack.

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 25, 2021, 11:20:49 AM

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

How's the energy levels Clar if you don't mind me asking?

I have improved a good bit and people say I look healthier but at same time I only walk from room to room or a bit outside the house as I don't want to push it. Going up the stairs is still a real killer. It's just going to take time but my aim is to try and start doing 15-20 min walks in January and see how that goes.

That's tough Clar. What age are you if its not too personal? A  cousin of mine (41) had Covid in the summer and while he did not really have too much bother other than a couple of days feeling fluey he was grand. However he would have been a big runner and he says he cant get back to anywhere near the pace he was at pre Covid. He was doing 10ks in about 42 minutes pre covid and now he is at about 47minutes. I think when he went back at it a month post Covid he was up at 50 minutes+. I realise it does not come close to what you are going through but shows that the impact can linger even if you think you only get a mild dose of teh virus at the time.

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 25, 2021, 11:20:49 AM

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

How's the energy levels Clar if you don't mind me asking?

I have improved a good bit and people say I look healthier but at same time I only walk from room to room or a bit outside the house as I don't want to push it. Going up the stairs is still a real killer. It's just going to take time but my aim is to try and start doing 15-20 min walks in January and see how that goes.

Great to hear you are feeling much better. Best of luck on recovery.

Quote from: clarshack on November 25, 2021, 10:45:41 AM
got my 1st covid jab yesterday afternoon (Moderna) only side effect so far is a sore arm. had flu jab last week and have to get the pneumonia jab in a couple of weeks as well due to it being in my lungs when I had Covid.
would have been a hell of a lot easier to have got the Covid jab when I should have earlier in the year.

aren't you anti vax  ???

Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

People were getting different first jabs from second jabs too. I am not sure the answer but am sure it's a thing.

Quote from: lurganblue on November 26, 2021, 09:04:38 AM
Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

All the same, though my wife is getting a different booster next week... lucky girl  ;D

Quote from: lurganblue on November 26, 2021, 09:04:38 AM
Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

Pfizer 1/2 and Moderna booster. Sore head for a day after the booster, but all good

Quote from: JoG2 on November 26, 2021, 10:36:50 AM

Quote from: lurganblue on November 26, 2021, 09:04:38 AM
Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

Pfizer 1/2 and Moderna booster. Sore head for a day after the booster, but all good

Same here
Felt crap after booster
But all good now

is there a way to upload your booster to the App? I can only see where it asks for 1st and 2nd dose

Quote from: themac_23 on November 26, 2021, 01:02:01 PM
is there a way to upload your booster to the App? I can only see where it asks for 1st and 2nd dose

I could be wrong but I think it only covers the first 2 doses for now.

Quote from: JoG2 on November 26, 2021, 10:36:50 AM

Quote from: lurganblue on November 26, 2021, 09:04:38 AM
Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

Pfizer 1/2 and Moderna booster. Sore head for a day after the booster, but all good

Same - Pfizer 1 & 2 and Moderna Pfizer booster on Monday night at RVH. Zero side effects from first 2 jabs, not even a sore arm and only a slight sore arm the day after the booster, but the wife reckons can feel the effects up to a week after so I might not be in the clear yet.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that some data suggests that a mix n match approach can be more effective. 

Interesting poll results. In regards to the ROI 93% of adults fully vaccinated I don't think we would have got much more even if it was mandatory.

Got Moderna 2nd time round yesterday , sore arm the day, so gym gets a miss.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 26, 2021, 04:22:23 PM
Got Moderna 2nd time round yesterday , sore arm the day, so gym gets a miss.

Any excuse!!

I need to get back to it, absolutely no excuse!

Best to avoid strenuous exercise for a week after the jab.

Mask wearing in certain parts of Derry City has really nose dived in the last while. The difference between the likes of Derry City and say Dublin / Galway is night and day. The amount of people who literally couldn't give a fcuk about their fellow man / woman is staggering. It doesn't take much to wear one.

Bck on gym yesterday 2 days after jab, sore arm gone, so bck to 4/5 times a week.

Quote from: JoG2 on November 28, 2021, 10:41:00 AM
Mask wearing in certain parts of Derry City has really nose dived in the last while. The difference between the likes of Derry City and say Dublin / Galway is night and day. The amount of people who literally couldn't give a fcuk about their fellow man / woman is staggering. It doesn't take much to wear one.

Friend of mine was laughed at in Derry for wearing one. That's maybe a month ago now.

Belfast the same, people do not give one f**k

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2021, 09:10:29 AM

Quote from: lurganblue on November 26, 2021, 09:04:38 AM
Not that i'm too worried about this but has anyone got a booster that is different from their first 2, eg Pfizer first 2 and moderna the booster?

Just wondering

All the same, though my wife is getting a different booster next week... lucky girl  ;D

My two jabs were Astra Zenica and my booster was the Pfizer. No ill effects so far.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 28, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Bck on gym yesterday 2 days after jab, sore arm gone, so bck to 4/5 times a week.

That's the booster yes?

I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

I'm sure the unvaccinated will respect democracy.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection. (Vaccinated or unvaccinated).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

There's a big difference here. People have a choice whether or not to take the vaccine. If they feel so strongly about not taking it and causing unnecessary risk to their work colleagues, their fellow commuters, their fellow revellers in nightclubs and their families then they should be prepared to accept that the vast majority of society do not want to have their risk increased by largely selfish people. We need the vast majority of people across the world to get vaccinated to ensure the eventual fizzling out of covid. All these anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists are simply extending this pandemic and ensuring that it stretches on for another year or 2.

Quote from: lenny on November 28, 2021, 07:11:37 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

There's a big difference here. People have a choice whether or not to take the vaccine. If they feel so strongly about not taking it and causing unnecessary risk to their work colleagues, their fellow commuters, their fellow revellers in nightclubs and their families then they should be prepared to accept that the vast majority of society do not want to have their risk increased by largely selfish people. We need the vast majority of people across the world to get vaccinated to ensure the eventual fizzling out of covid. All these anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists are simply extending this pandemic and ensuring that it stretches on for another year or 2.

I was under the assumption that the goal of the covid passport was to protect the health service from becoming overwhelmed and in particular ICU admission by limiting the contact that non Vaccinated have with other members of society in communal areas.
             That the government had identified that non vaccinated were over represented in both hospital admissions and in particular ICU admissions.
          It was a purely about protecting the health system based on SCIENTIFIC research and statistics.   
           What you are suggesting is that the introduction of the covid passport is a form of encouragement or i would say coercion in order to get that non vaccinated group to get vaccinated.
     Is that your take on it?
         Because if it's based on scientific evidence and current statistics then you would have to say that those with underlying health conditions ( vaccinated or unvaccinated) are over represented in both hospital admissions and ICU admissions.
        Am i wrong in that assertion?

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection. (Vaccinated or unvaccinated).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

The thing is though. You are imagining.

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 28, 2021, 07:31:23 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection. (Vaccinated or unvaccinated).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

The thing is though. You are imagining.

Slippery slope. Thats my point. 
       I'd guess the experience of people on this island,  has left me very nervous about governments ( north or south ) removing people's freedoms for ' in their view ' the good of society.

Quote from: lenny on November 28, 2021, 07:11:37 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

There's a big difference here. People have a choice whether or not to take the vaccine. If they feel so strongly about not taking it and causing unnecessary risk to their work colleagues, their fellow commuters, their fellow revellers in nightclubs and their families then they should be prepared to accept that the vast majority of society do not want to have their risk increased by largely selfish people. We need the vast majority of people across the world to get vaccinated to ensure the eventual fizzling out of covid. All these anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists are simply extending this pandemic and ensuring that it stretches on for another year or 2.

But they don't pose a risk to anyone else anymore than someone who is vacinnated. It's to themselves that the increased risk lies. And of course the risk to the capacity within health service .

But let's not stretch this great big " contagious unwashed" thingy

 ' We need the vast majority of people across the world to get vaccinated to ensure the eventual fizzling out of covid. All these anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists are simply extending this pandemic and ensuring that it stretches on for another year or 2.'

           Well one sure way to reduce one of the main conspiracy theories
     ' that big Pharma is in this for the money and not for the good of humanity '
          would be for the big companies that produce the covid vaccination to supply the 3rd world/developing countries with the vaccine/ability to manufacture free of charge.
          Its been drummed into us ' that we all must be vaccinated for the programme to work ' 
       Why aren't they supplying the vaccines to these developing countries?
        Wtf is the point of chasing down the last 7% of the Irish population if four and a half billion remain unvaccinated?

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 07:35:56 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 28, 2021, 07:31:23 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2021, 06:17:33 PM
I see 62% of Swiss voters in favour of continuing curbs on the unvaccinated.

Imagine if they decided to place curbs on those poor folks with underlying health conditions.
        The scientific evidence is very clear that they are significantly more at risk of both hospitalisation and ICU admission after covid infection. (Vaccinated or unvaccinated).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

How would you feel about that?

Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

The thing is though. You are imagining.

Slippery slope. Thats my point. 
       I'd guess the experience of people on this island,  has left me very nervous about governments ( north or south ) removing people's freedoms for ' in their view ' the good of society.

I really don't think it is a slippery slope. 

Next thing they'll want people to wear seat belts in cars, helmets for motorbikers and not allow us the freedom to smoke where we want.
Then they'll start vaccinating our children against polio, diphtheria, meningitis and the like.
How dare they take away our freedom to get serious illnesses?

What Freedoms been denied are people on about? Not go into a setting without a mask? There many a nightclub you can't wear white trainers into, did that club take away my freedom.? Some clubs, are over 21, am the age 18-20, is my freedom took away that I can get in most place but not there. Years ago many people drove without wearing a seat belt. They started fining people for such, cause normal people were either stupid or ignorant of the danger. So if someone can list my stolen freedoms I like to hear, maybe some people waving swastika posters at the Belfast Rally last week, should watch Einsatzgruppen, Nazi death squads if they can stomach it on Netflix. truly horrifying to watch. Maybe then they know waving that to proof their stance, is stomach churning.

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM
Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

What next eh?
Maybe stopping you from driving past a primary school at any speed you please?
The absolute bstards.


Go away and take a look at yerself ye dopey clown.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 09:40:26 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM
Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

What next eh?
Maybe stopping you from driving past a primary school at any speed you please?
The absolute bstards.


Go away and take a look at yerself ye dopey clown.

Genuine laugh out loud there 🤣

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 09:40:26 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 06:59:11 PM
Its a slippery old slope this curbing  of freedoms of certain sections of society.

Who could be next?

What next eh?
Maybe stopping you from driving past a primary school at any speed you please?
The absolute bstards.


Go away and take a look at yerself ye dopey clown.

Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I would have said things like tories trying to get rid of human rights acts and things like that are a bit of a bigger problem than anything we are looking at from COVID.  Those are real concerns unlike you need a lateral flow test result if you are not vaccinated.

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

Cool, Good advice. I've added you to my blocked/Ignore list.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

intelligence is in short supply alright  ;)

why is it always nordies against reason though  ::)

Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 28, 2021, 10:25:35 PM

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

intelligence is in short supply alright  ;)

why is it always nordies against reason though  ::)

Nordies are always against reason, because of their acceptance of it (so called reason) in the past?

Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 28, 2021, 10:25:35 PM

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

intelligence is in short supply alright  ;)

why is it always nordies against reason though  ::)

Says the guy who doesn't recognise the best golfer Ireland has ever produced  :D

Quote from: From the Bunker on November 28, 2021, 10:54:45 PM

Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 28, 2021, 10:25:35 PM

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 28, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Nice. When you have to resort to insults to make your argument you know your bate.

I've learned largely from the covid thread that there is no point even attempting to make an argument with stupid people based on facts and logic.

intelligence is in short supply alright  ;)

why is it always nordies against reason though  ::)

Nordies are always against reason, because of their acceptance of it (so called reason) in the past?

a strange people yes   :-\

What's going on? Are nordies for or against the vaccine passport? Which one is reason?

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 28, 2021, 09:30:00 PM
What Freedoms been denied are people on about? Not go into a setting without a mask? There many a nightclub you can't wear white trainers into, did that club take away my freedom.? Some clubs, are over 21, am the age 18-20, is my freedom took away that I can get in most place but not there. Years ago many people drove without wearing a seat belt. They started fining people for such, cause normal people were either stupid or ignorant of the danger. So if someone can list my stolen freedoms I like to hear, maybe some people waving swastika posters at the Belfast Rally last week, should watch Einsatzgruppen, Nazi death squads if they can stomach it on Netflix. truly horrifying to watch. Maybe then they know waving that to proof their stance, is stomach churning.

Anybody waving around a swastika to try and make some sort of political point, want a firm boot up the hole. (Be that an anti covid vaccination or a loyalist rally).
     

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2021, 07:38:18 AM
What's going on? Are nordies for or against the vaccine passport? Which one is reason?

For.

Quote from: lenny on November 29, 2021, 09:41:59 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2021, 07:38:18 AM
What's going on? Are nordies for or against the vaccine passport? Which one is reason?

For.

Is there a link to the NI vaccine Passport ?

If you already have the travel passport (CovidCertNI), then the domestic one should be available to you. 

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/apply-domestic-covid-vaccination-certificate

Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Did you end up in hospital?

Quote from: lenny on November 29, 2021, 09:41:59 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2021, 07:38:18 AM
What's going on? Are nordies for or against the vaccine passport? Which one is reason?

For.

To be fair it seems to be the southern alright who aren't happy with the covid passport. They have form in showing little concern for their fellow Irishmen,

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 10:49:24 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Did you end up in hospital?

Nope it was a fairly mild dose, bit of a headcold for a few days but fine again now.

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 11:03:55 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 10:49:24 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Did you end up in hospital?

Nope it was a fairly mild dose, bit of a headcold for a few days but fine again now.

So the vaccine could have helped you, though age and fitness and no underlying issues would have given you as much protection, possibly, you'll not know.

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:43:09 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

No id rather they upgraded the NHS

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

I don't think this is the case at all, maybe in the 26 they've been telling the public things will be back to normal once everyone is vaccinated but it hasn't really been the case in the north. The message I've got is to continue on with mask-wearing, sanitising etc.

Too many people have disregarded this, as an anecdotal example I was in Edinburgh last weekend and in all the bars, shops etc there was mask wearing, track and trace, sanitising on every bar/restaurant table. Same with Glasgow when I was last over, the Scots just get on with it. Out in Belfast over the weekend and it was like night and day. People either not wearing a mask or wearing it round their chin, women reluctant to wear it incase it wrecks their make up, men just being ignorant. My favourite was two glammed up girls with the exemption lanyards on but no actual ID attached! Then you have those clampets stood outside city hall, including that glipe gym owner from Newry front and centre calling people Nazis... not a virologist nor a medical degree among them but I bet they'd not say no to a hospital bed should they or one of their loved ones take bad with COVID...

Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2021, 12:10:23 PM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

I don't think this is the case at all, maybe in the 26 they've been telling the public things will be back to normal once everyone is vaccinated but it hasn't really been the case in the north. The message I've got is to continue on with mask-wearing, sanitising etc.

Too many people have disregarded this, as an anecdotal example I was in Edinburgh last weekend and in all the bars, shops etc there was mask wearing, track and trace, sanitising on every bar/restaurant table. Same with Glasgow when I was last over, the Scots just get on with it. Out in Belfast over the weekend and it was like night and day. People either not wearing a mask or wearing it round their chin, women reluctant to wear it incase it wrecks their make up, men just being ignorant. My favourite was two glammed up girls with the exemption lanyards on but no actual ID attached! Then you have those clampets stood outside city hall, including that glipe gym owner from Newry front and centre calling people Nazis... not a virologist nor a medical degree among them but I bet they'd not say no to a hospital bed should they or one of their loved ones take bad with COVID...

Not sure if you're aware of how things are down south but things are still heavily restricted. Covid passports everywhere, limits on indoor gatherings, social distancing in place, table service, mass uptake of vaccination, compliance with masks very high etc & Covid is still rampant. I guess my position now is that it's going to be rampant as long as things are opened up somewhat, where people are mixing it will spread no matter what precautions you take. You make the comparison between the north & Scotland & how the attitude & approaches are different but from my reading the results in terms of case numbers, hospital numbers, deaths etc are remarkably similar so what has the different attitude in Scotland actually achieved? Whatever approach you take the virus seems to spread. I'm just worried that those in power have no long term strategy here & actually have no idea what they are at.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 12:03:14 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:43:09 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

No id rather they upgraded the NHS

How soon is that going to happen? there will be another pandemic before that cluster f**k is fixed

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 12:28:22 PM

Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2021, 12:10:23 PM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

I don't think this is the case at all, maybe in the 26 they've been telling the public things will be back to normal once everyone is vaccinated but it hasn't really been the case in the north. The message I've got is to continue on with mask-wearing, sanitising etc.

Too many people have disregarded this, as an anecdotal example I was in Edinburgh last weekend and in all the bars, shops etc there was mask wearing, track and trace, sanitising on every bar/restaurant table. Same with Glasgow when I was last over, the Scots just get on with it. Out in Belfast over the weekend and it was like night and day. People either not wearing a mask or wearing it round their chin, women reluctant to wear it incase it wrecks their make up, men just being ignorant. My favourite was two glammed up girls with the exemption lanyards on but no actual ID attached! Then you have those clampets stood outside city hall, including that glipe gym owner from Newry front and centre calling people Nazis... not a virologist nor a medical degree among them but I bet they'd not say no to a hospital bed should they or one of their loved ones take bad with COVID...

Not sure if you're aware of how things are down south but things are still heavily restricted. Covid passports everywhere, limits on indoor gatherings, social distancing in place, table service, mass uptake of vaccination, compliance with masks very high etc & Covid is still rampant. I guess my position now is that it's going to be rampant as long as things are opened up somewhat, where people are mixing it will spread no matter what precautions you take. You make the comparison between the north & Scotland & how the attitude & approaches are different but from my reading the results in terms of case numbers, hospital numbers, deaths etc are remarkably similar so what has the different attitude in Scotland actually achieved? Whatever approach you take the virus seems to spread. I'm just worried that those in power have no long term strategy here & actually have no idea what they are at.

And yous added in extra ICU capacity-Stormont menawhile..........

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 12:50:29 PM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 12:28:22 PM

Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2021, 12:10:23 PM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

I don't think this is the case at all, maybe in the 26 they've been telling the public things will be back to normal once everyone is vaccinated but it hasn't really been the case in the north. The message I've got is to continue on with mask-wearing, sanitising etc.

Too many people have disregarded this, as an anecdotal example I was in Edinburgh last weekend and in all the bars, shops etc there was mask wearing, track and trace, sanitising on every bar/restaurant table. Same with Glasgow when I was last over, the Scots just get on with it. Out in Belfast over the weekend and it was like night and day. People either not wearing a mask or wearing it round their chin, women reluctant to wear it incase it wrecks their make up, men just being ignorant. My favourite was two glammed up girls with the exemption lanyards on but no actual ID attached! Then you have those clampets stood outside city hall, including that glipe gym owner from Newry front and centre calling people Nazis... not a virologist nor a medical degree among them but I bet they'd not say no to a hospital bed should they or one of their loved ones take bad with COVID...

Not sure if you're aware of how things are down south but things are still heavily restricted. Covid passports everywhere, limits on indoor gatherings, social distancing in place, table service, mass uptake of vaccination, compliance with masks very high etc & Covid is still rampant. I guess my position now is that it's going to be rampant as long as things are opened up somewhat, where people are mixing it will spread no matter what precautions you take. You make the comparison between the north & Scotland & how the attitude & approaches are different but from my reading the results in terms of case numbers, hospital numbers, deaths etc are remarkably similar so what has the different attitude in Scotland actually achieved? Whatever approach you take the virus seems to spread. I'm just worried that those in power have no long term strategy here & actually have no idea what they are at.

And yous added in extra ICU capacity-Stormont menawhile..........

Did we?

They borrowed some from the private hospitals at the start (at enormous expense) but I don't think they added any permanent ICU beds.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 12:03:14 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:43:09 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

No id rather they upgraded the NHS

How soon is that going to happen? there will be another pandemic before that cluster f**k is fixed

I would say it won't be fixed in our lifetimes. There are serious moves going on by the tories to privatise it. To have any hope the tories need to go and that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2021, 01:23:18 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 12:03:14 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:43:09 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

No id rather they upgraded the NHS

How soon is that going to happen? there will be another pandemic before that cluster f**k is fixed

I would say it won't be fixed in our lifetimes. There are serious moves going on by the tories to privatise it. To have any hope the tories need to go and that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

So lets (until it ever happens) follow the guidelines as best we can, and reduce the impact it has on the NHS. how anyone thinks throwing money at it will actually fix it... its problems are far deeper than money

We did increase our public ICU capacity,  around 25 extra I think.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2021, 02:06:22 PM
We did increase our public ICU capacity,  around 25 extra I think.

That's right, up here is what you will get down there with SF.
Oops that's right Westminster control the budget.
Oh wait that's right sure what's the point going to Westminster?
Oh wait to get abortion pushed through when it suits maybe?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 01:26:05 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2021, 01:23:18 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 12:03:14 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:43:09 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 29, 2021, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: sligoman on November 29, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Vaccination has been sold to people as a way to get back to normal & that's why it hasn't worked, it doesn't stop transmission & infection. If you behave as you did pre Covid then you're going to get it & pass it on whether you're vaccinated or not. I've learned that personally, I'm fully vaccinated & attended a wedding a number of weeks back where our table had a break out with all of us bar 1 getting it, all of us were fully vaccinated.

I think this focus on the unvaccinated is a way to deflect from failings from politicians & health officials.

Yep. As I said already the unvaccinated are a risk to themselves and hospital capacity  but the vaccinated have similar viral loads to those of the unvaccinated. The vaccine lowers risk slightly of passing it on but lowers risk of getting sick more significantly

So by lowering it can only be a good thing?

Yes, but I dont think its strong enough to warrant mandatory vaccination

So you'd rather the hospitals were full of people that are not vaccinated and becoming ill and bringing the NHS down ...

BTW I also clicked no on the mandatory vaccine, I rather they take it for the right reasons

No id rather they upgraded the NHS

How soon is that going to happen? there will be another pandemic before that cluster f**k is fixed

I would say it won't be fixed in our lifetimes. There are serious moves going on by the tories to privatise it. To have any hope the tories need to go and that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

So lets (until it ever happens) follow the guidelines as best we can, and reduce the impact it has on the NHS. how anyone thinks throwing money at it will actually fix it... its problems are far deeper than money

The staff levels are ridiculous then throwing money at agency staff is wasting money. Why won't they review why they can't get staff? Then they did brexit and lost a lot of foreign workers who were probably propping the thing up. It's just a massive list of issues that would take a long time and - and this is the biggest problem with politicians etc - a desire to fix.

the pandemic is not specifically about protecting NHS. Raw stats etc mean if the thing got out of control no health service could cater for it. We just happen to have a weaker health service than most (north and south it would seem but north probably moreso).  The conspiracy theorists who think it is a cover up for the NHS need to maybe think wider and look at Austria and such places - almost all health services have creaked under this.

I have a toddler. The restrictions make little difference to my house and like most with children the biggest risk is the child(ren) bringing something into the house. (It did happen).

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

this should now read mandatory vaccines
Can we renew thread for every new variant that escapes the previous vaccine .
Don't worry though Pfizer say they are good to go in 100 days .

Quote from: Gmac on November 30, 2021, 03:02:18 PM

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Given Austria's position I thought it would be interesting to see how board members would vote here. Thanks
             A mandatory vaccination scheme is where you are required by law to get vaccinated and face punishment if you do not do so. Those refusing vaccines are likely to face administrative fines which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine is not recovered.

this should now read mandatory vaccines
Can we renew thread for every new variant that escapes the previous vaccine .
Don't worry though Pfizer say they are good to go in 100 days .

You do the responsible thing that needs to be done, if that requires other boosters or whatever then that is what it is.

The right wingers love moaning about a virus they know absolutely feck all about and love running down those who try and do something about it.

No one can claim absolute supremacy in terms of being correct. There are many smart people debating and promoting their own hypothesis. Many are being censored though, if they are at odds with the "official" narrative which is just weird and most importantly deeply unscientific. Scepticism used to be healthy.

Quote from: Last Man on December 01, 2021, 11:44:39 AM
No one can claim absolute supremacy in terms of being correct. There are many smart people debating and promoting their own hypothesis. Many are being censored though, if they are at odds with the "official" narrative which is just weird and most importantly deeply unscientific. Scepticism used to be healthy.

Skepticism is STILL healthy.

Unfortunately much of what passes as supposed skepticism is just ill-informed misinformation or bad-faith cynicism.

Quote from: Last Man on December 01, 2021, 11:44:39 AM
No one can claim absolute supremacy in terms of being correct. There are many smart people debating and promoting their own hypothesis. Many are being censored though, if they are at odds with the "official" narrative which is just weird and most importantly deeply unscientific. Scepticism used to be healthy.

::)

Quote from: Last Man on December 01, 2021, 11:44:39 AM
No one can claim absolute supremacy in terms of being correct. There are many smart people debating and promoting their own hypothesis. Many are being censored though, if they are at odds with the "official" narrative which is just weird and most importantly deeply unscientific. Scepticism used to be healthy.

This my be true. But the vast majority of stuff is misinformation. Can you give an example of someone who is being censored but has been able to present facts and figures that stand up to scrutiny?

Would you go to the dentist to get your tooth out, or Mr Johnny come lately who read up on how to do it over the Internet?

European Union countries should consider mandatory vaccination to combat Covid and the Omicron variant, the head of its Commission has said.

Ursula von der Leyen said vaccines would be crucial in the fight against the "highly contagious" new variant

Quote from: grounded on December 01, 2021, 07:43:43 PM
European Union countries should consider mandatory vaccination to combat Covid and the Omicron variant, the head of its Commission has said.

Ursula von der Leyen said vaccines would be crucial in the fight against the "highly contagious" new variant

You have to admit, they are doing their best to light the fire under this new variant.

Again I can't see the big deal with vaccine unless u got a prior history of severe allergic reactions, and possible serious health issues.

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2021, 07:56:57 PM

Quote from: grounded on December 01, 2021, 07:43:43 PM
European Union countries should consider mandatory vaccination to combat Covid and the Omicron variant, the head of its Commission has said.

Ursula von der Leyen said vaccines would be crucial in the fight against the "highly contagious" new variant

You have to admit, they are doing their best to light the fire under this new variant.

Austria and Greece( over 60's) have already gone for mandatory vaccinations. It looks very much like Germany will go down that route too, with a vote planned before year end. It won't take that much to push the rest.
       

What's the point of this thread

Of interest to some

Covid inquiry postpones vaccine investigation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67935037)

Dara?