What's said in the confession box will no longer stay there - Church outraged

[muppet]

Re: What's said in the confession box will no longer stay there - Church outraged
« Reply #41 on: Today at 01:07:53 PM »
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Quote from: Eamonnca1 on Today at 06:46:20 AM

    Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 10, 2011, 10:01:48 PM

        Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2011, 05:52:57 PM

            So it's difficult to enforce therefore we shouldn't bother, eh? Scrap all speed limits on country roads then.


        All I am saying Eamonn is that people who murdered or raped or abused young children hardly have any faith in God or they wouldn't do such things making this silly law unenforceable. You may point out that priests (who abused young children etc) have faith in God, well if they have any conscience at all they would have cooperated with the law. And the speed limits on country roads are been broken left, right and centre.


    Criminals are all atheists, eh?


No, but they'd hardly go to f**king confessions is all I'm saying.  ::.

a lot of this revolves around the fact that all priests have a confessor ie another priest to whom they confess their sins, child abuse and all. as far as i recall eamon casey admitted to discussing his problems with his confessor.
i would say that a lot of the priests who abused kids did admit it and look for forgivness from there confessors who then did nothing about it because they could not mention it  under canon law even if they wanted to

The first post even in the same country as the point.

[Bogball XV]

The first post even in the same country as the point.

Explain how this legislation is going to change things?  The priest hearing the confession has always had the opportunity of going to the authorities, is the legislation to enable the authorities to throw priests, who they believe may have heard the paedophile priests confess to paedophilia into jail?  As I pointed out yesterday, what sort of crimes have to be reported?  Is it even possible to frame legislation in such a way that some crimes are mandatorily reportable and some aren't? 

It's totally unecessary, unenforceable and irrelevant, therefore the only reason behind it imo is to try and appeal to populist opinion and sure even the bit of controversy means people forget about the ineffectiveness of our leaders in all other matters.

[muppet]

The first post even in the same country as the point.

Explain how this legislation is going to change things?  The priest hearing the confession has always had the opportunity of going to the authorities, is the legislation to enable the authorities to throw priests, who they believe may have heard the paedophile priests confess to paedophilia into jail?  As I pointed out yesterday, what sort of crimes have to be reported?  Is it even possible to frame legislation in such a way that some crimes are mandatorily reportable and some aren't? 

It's totally unecessary, unenforceable and irrelevant, therefore the only reason behind it imo is to try and appeal to populist opinion and sure even the bit of controversy means people forget about the ineffectiveness of our leaders in all other matters.

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: "Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities," said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti. shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

[Bogball XV]

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: "Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities," said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti. shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

At least you're putting forward an argument, i don't see the point at all tbh, even your argument points to posturing by the govt, but i'm not going to influence their decision from here so it's time to leave it i think.

[Eamonnca1]

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: "Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities," said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti. shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

Preach it brother!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: "Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities," said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti. shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

Preach it brother!

How can people defend the Vatican and its international mafia. This is clear foreign hostility towards our country.

[Pangurban]

So the Catholics of Ireland who uphold the rigt of the Church  to preach and teach its doctrines are displaying hostility to the nation. Engage your Brain man, not your bigotry

[stephenite]

I think it was Michael McDowell who pointed out that Canon law holds as much water as the rules of a local golf club in relation to the law of the land. I never agreed too much with the man but that was a well placed retort when this was discussed some years back.

[Bogball XV]

I think it was Michael McDowell who pointed out that Canon law holds as much water as the rules of a local golf club in relation to the law of the land. I never agreed too much with the man but that was a well placed retort when this was discussed some years back.

precisely, that's the been the point all along. 

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: “Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities,” said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti. shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

Preach it brother!

You must have been delighted that someone put forward a valid point Eamonn, you were a long time in this debate without raising anything of relevance.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

The point is not, as is being argued on this thread, that murderers don't go to confession.

Part of the Catholic Church's silence on known pedophilia has been excused by the posit that Canon Law supersedes the Law of the land. Confession is frequently used as an emotive argument to back that up. Even the weakest follower of Catholicism understands the Sanctity of Confessions and understands that it cannot be breached. The reaction from Rome in the OP: "Ireland can approve all the laws it wants but it should know the church will never allow itself the obligation to betray the confessional to civil authorities," said Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti.[/i] shows that thinking succinctly.

The timing as in all things political may have been convenient, but the motive is obvious. The point here is to show who exactly is in charge and that the Church in particular are subject to all of our laws.

Preach it brother!

How can people defend the Vatican and its international mafia. This is clear foreign hostility towards our country.

So the Catholics of Ireland who uphold the rigt of the Church  to preach and teach its doctrines are displaying hostility to the nation. Engage your Brain man, not your bigotry

Engage your brain man, this is clearly a hostile declaration from the heart of the foreign Vatican State. If Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews or any other cult wish to hold the laws of Ireland in distain and intend on breaking those laws, they are throwing their lot in with those hostile to the Irish State and the Irish Nation. If you used your brain, you would not believe in God.

[gallsman]

If you used your brain, you would not believe in God.

Pathetic and incredibly narrow-minded.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

If you used your brain, you would not believe in God.

Pathetic and incredibly narrow-minded.

Prove its existence, the burden of proof is with you. I guess I'm narrow minded because I don't believe in Leprechauns, Banshees, Unicorns, Minitors, ghosts, vampires, watersprites or werewolfs. How much more credible is the existence of a God or Gods than any of those?

[Pangurban]

Your blinkeresd intolerance and bigotry is prevented you from entering into a reasoned debate. It is clear that you have never read one word of Canon Law, have no idea of its function or purpose, and refuse to even try too understand the relationship between it and law of the state. If you are happy in your ignorance,then so be it, but please refrain from pontificating on a subject about which you clearly know nothing, you are embarrassing yourself and misleading others

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Your blinkeresd intolerance and bigotry is prevented you from entering into a reasoned debate. It is clear that you have never read one word of Canon Law, have no idea of its function or purpose, and refuse to even try too understand the relationship between it and law of the state. If you are happy in your ignorance,then so be it, but please refrain from pontificating on a subject about which you clearly know nothing, you are embarrassing yourself and misleading others

Canon Club Rules do not matter in the slightest. I do not care about the club rules of Portmarnock golf club or Portlaoise Boy Scouts, and I certainly do not care about the club rules of a dungeons and dragons club of fantasists (look at your bible the similaraties are breathtaking).

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Pangurban, why do you believe in God?