Anyone?
Dunno, Dinny.
It's an awful pity football and hurling for both genders aren't under a single association though.
That'd be too much like sense.
My understanding is that the camogie and ladies football associations are the most resistant to it.
Political I suspect, people don't like to give up their perceived power..
My daughter wants to know why she plays camoige and her brother plays hurling, I have no explanation.
Explain 'skorts' to her, while you're at it. ;D
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 27, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
Anyone?
Do Hurling and Camogie have exactly the same rules then? If not, there's your answer!
Quote from: StGallsGAA on March 27, 2017, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 27, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
Anyone?
Do Hurling and Camogie have exactly the same rules then? If not, there's your answer!
I thought there are no rules? Let the game flow.
Ladies Football and Mens Football don't have the same rules either, exactly, but they are still called the same thing, albeit with the additional 'Ladies' explicitly mentioned at the front to differentiate from the implicit 'Mens'.
I think, ironically, that the Camogie Association are more open to joining the GAA. The Ladies GFA seem to be a bit more resistent, at least that's the story I was told at a coaching conference last year.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on March 27, 2017, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 27, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
Anyone?
Do Hurling and Camogie have exactly the same rules then? If not, there's your answer!
Does men and ladies football have the exact same rules? No, yet they are called the same!!!
Indy and Milwaukee call it hurling even though they play co-ed in their pub leagues. Works well too. Only when they send teams to the USGAA finals do they start dividing up by gender.
As for the OP question, I always found it odd that we have a different word for the female version of the same sport. Doesn't happen in soccer or lacrosse or hockey or anything. Can't think of another sport where this happens. I suppose it fits in with the kind of gender segregation that pious Catholic Ireland once foisted on youngsters.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 27, 2017, 12:58:46 PM
Explain 'skorts' to her, while you're at it. ;D
Not as Irish as I thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skort
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
As for the OP question, I always found it odd that we have a different word for the female version of the same sport. Doesn't happen in soccer or lacrosse or hockey or anything. Can't think of another sport where this happens. I suppose it fits in with the kind of gender segregation that pious Catholic Ireland once foisted on youngsters.
Netball basically started as female basketball. And does every thread have to come back to bashing the Catholic church, Camogie was played in Ireland when female sports were not usual in many countries.
The name was invented by Tadhg Ua Donnchadha (Tórna) at meetings in 1903 in advance of the first matches in 1904. Men play using a curved stick called in Irish a camán. Women would use a shorter stick, at one stage described by the diminutive form camóg. The suffix -aíocht (originally "uidheacht") was added to both words to give names for the sports: camánaíocht (which became iománaíocht) and camógaíocht. When the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded in 1884 the English-origin name "hurling" was given to the men's game. When an organisation for women was set up in 1904, it was decided to anglicise the Irish name camógaíocht to camogie
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 27, 2017, 10:10:09 PM
The name was invented by Tadhg Ua Donnchadha (Tórna) at meetings in 1903 in advance of the first matches in 1904. Men play using a curved stick called in Irish a camán. Women would use a shorter stick, at one stage described by the diminutive form camóg. The suffix -aíocht (originally "uidheacht") was added to both words to give names for the sports: camánaíocht (which became iománaíocht) and camógaíocht. When the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded in 1884 the English-origin name "hurling" was given to the men's game. When an organisation for women was set up in 1904, it was decided to anglicise the Irish name camógaíocht to camogie
Thanks for that research Walt - good work.
So we have the origin but why is it still retained?
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 27, 2017, 10:10:09 PM
The name was invented by Tadhg Ua Donnchadha (Tórna) at meetings in 1903 in advance of the first matches in 1904. Men play using a curved stick called in Irish a camán. Women would use a shorter stick, at one stage described by the diminutive form camóg. The suffix -aíocht (originally "uidheacht") was added to both words to give names for the sports: camánaíocht (which became iománaíocht) and camógaíocht. When the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded in 1884 the English-origin name "hurling" was given to the men's game. When an organisation for women was set up in 1904, it was decided to anglicise the Irish name camógaíocht to camogie
good research
did you ever see a distinction between Hurley and hurling as mention by Michael cusack in setting up the Dublin Hurling Club Pre GAA
Why do camogie goalkeepers wear the same jersey as everyone else on their team ?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2017, 11:26:22 AM
So we have the origin but why is it still retained?/quote]
Tradition is only thing I see that has kept it as camogie and it is hard to rebrand anything that is associated with a particular subject for so long. Probably seen as being more genteel that hurling and thus differentiating it from one another
There are slight differences in rules between camogie and hurling but are slowly being synchronised with one another. eg 15 a side, pitch size but 45s not 65s size 4 ball not size 5 even for adults
Camogie goalkeepers wear the same shirt as they do not enjoy the same rules of protection compared to hurling goalkeepers in the small square as camogie is a non intentional contact sport. Incidental contact is allowed but deliberate contact such as the shoulder to shoulder charge (but it happens a lot mainly due to the influence of hurling coaches managing camogie teams and who are not aware of the no deliberate contact aspect of the game)
Before Cusack formalised a set of rules for hurling there were many forms of "hurley" played throughout the country from "shinney" in Antrim Donegal and what was known as "commons" which were played mainly in the winter. The form of hurling we know today was the from that was played mainly in the summer and prevailed mostly in Leinster and Munster under the patronage of the landed gentry
Like all sport it evolves from mostly being played on the ground to the possession game we have today just look how the shape of the caman has changed through the years
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
As for the OP question, I always found it odd that we have a different word for the female version of the same sport. Doesn't happen in soccer or lacrosse or hockey or anything. Can't think of another sport where this happens. I suppose it fits in with the kind of gender segregation that pious Catholic Ireland once foisted on youngsters.
Netball basically started as female basketball. And does every thread have to come back to bashing the Catholic church, Camogie was played in Ireland when female sports were not usual in many countries.
Where warranted, yes.
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 28, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2017, 11:26:22 AM
So we have the origin but why is it still retained?
Tradition is only thing I see that has kept it as camogie and it is hard to rebrand anything that is associated with a particular subject for so long. Probably seen as being more genteel that hurling and thus differentiating it from one another
There are slight differences in rules between camogie and hurling but are slowly being synchronised with one another. eg 15 a side, pitch size but 45s not 65s size 4 ball not size 5 even for adults
Camogie goalkeepers wear the same shirt as they do not enjoy the same rules of protection compared to hurling goalkeepers in the small square as camogie is a non intentional contact sport. Incidental contact is allowed but deliberate contact such as the shoulder to shoulder charge (but it happens a lot mainly due to the influence of hurling coaches managing camogie teams and who are not aware of the no deliberate contact aspect of the game)
Before Cusack formalised a set of rules for hurling there were many forms of "hurley" played throughout the country from "shinney" in Antrim Donegal and what was known as "commons" which were played mainly in the winter. The form of hurling we know today was the from that was played mainly in the summer and prevailed mostly in Leinster and Munster under the patronage of the landed gentry
Like all sport it evolves from mostly being played on the ground to the possession game we have today just look how the shape of the caman has changed through the years
Round our way there's a townland called Aghacommon meaning "hurling field." The Commons game you mention was closer in appearance to Scottish Shinty.
I always thought the hurling-shinty could be played up more as a means of getting more northern protestants into the game. It's a part of their heritage that could use a revival.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2017, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
As for the OP question, I always found it odd that we have a different word for the female version of the same sport. Doesn't happen in soccer or lacrosse or hockey or anything. Can't think of another sport where this happens. I suppose it fits in with the kind of gender segregation that pious Catholic Ireland once foisted on youngsters.
Netball basically started as female basketball. And does every thread have to come back to bashing the Catholic church, Camogie was played in Ireland when female sports were not usual in many countries.
Where warranted, yes.
Well then let's keep it for when it is warranted and not threads like this which it has nothing to do with.
But... Camogie is not called "Camoige"!? :P ;)
Quote from: stiffler on March 28, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
Why do camogie goalkeepers wear the same jersey as everyone else on their team ?
Probably because they don't get any special privileges e.g touching the ball on the ground like the football and hurleyshtuff?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2017, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
As for the OP question, I always found it odd that we have a different word for the female version of the same sport. Doesn't happen in soccer or lacrosse or hockey or anything. Can't think of another sport where this happens. I suppose it fits in with the kind of gender segregation that pious Catholic Ireland once foisted on youngsters.
Netball basically started as female basketball. And does every thread have to come back to bashing the Catholic church, Camogie was played in Ireland when female sports were not usual in many countries.
Where warranted, yes.
Well then let's keep it for when it is warranted and not threads like this which it has nothing to do with.
Grrr! *shakes fist at church*
Its the Camán verses the Camóg. The Camóg is a smaller stick than the Camán. That's where the name derived from
Quote from: Hardy on March 28, 2017, 10:47:08 AM
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 27, 2017, 10:10:09 PM
The name was invented by Tadhg Ua Donnchadha (Tórna) at meetings in 1903 in advance of the first matches in 1904. Men play using a curved stick called in Irish a camán. Women would use a shorter stick, at one stage described by the diminutive form camóg. The suffix -aíocht (originally "uidheacht") was added to both words to give names for the sports: camánaíocht (which became iománaíocht) and camógaíocht. When the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded in 1884 the English-origin name "hurling" was given to the men's game. When an organisation for women was set up in 1904, it was decided to anglicise the Irish name camógaíocht to camogie
Thanks for that research Walt - good work.
Thanks Walt, never knew that.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 29, 2017, 04:16:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 28, 2017, 10:47:08 AM
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 27, 2017, 10:10:09 PM
The name was invented by Tadhg Ua Donnchadha (Tórna) at meetings in 1903 in advance of the first matches in 1904. Men play using a curved stick called in Irish a camán. Women would use a shorter stick, at one stage described by the diminutive form camóg. The suffix -aíocht (originally "uidheacht") was added to both words to give names for the sports: camánaíocht (which became iománaíocht) and camógaíocht. When the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded in 1884 the English-origin name "hurling" was given to the men's game. When an organisation for women was set up in 1904, it was decided to anglicise the Irish name camógaíocht to camogie
Thanks for that research Walt - good work.
Thanks Walt, never knew that.
I always presumed camogie was an Irish word.
I'd say you were a hoor for the aul cogging in school Walt. ;D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camogie#Nomenclature (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camogie#Nomenclature)
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on March 28, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2017, 11:26:22 AM
So we have the origin but why is it still retained?/quote]
Tradition is only thing I see that has kept it as camogie and it is hard to rebrand anything that is associated with a particular subject for so long. Probably seen as being more genteel that hurling and thus differentiating it from one another
There are slight differences in rules between camogie and hurling but are slowly being synchronised with one another. eg 15 a side, pitch size but 45s not 65s size 4 ball not size 5 even for adults
Camogie goalkeepers wear the same shirt as they do not enjoy the same rules of protection compared to hurling goalkeepers in the small square as camogie is a non intentional contact sport. Incidental contact is allowed but deliberate contact such as the shoulder to shoulder charge (but it happens a lot mainly due to the influence of hurling coaches managing camogie teams and who are not aware of the no deliberate contact aspect of the game)
Before Cusack formalised a set of rules for hurling there were many forms of "hurley" played throughout the country from "shinney" in Antrim Donegal and what was known as "commons" which were played mainly in the winter. The form of hurling we know today was the from that was played mainly in the summer and prevailed mostly in Leinster and Munster under the patronage of the landed gentry
Like all sport it evolves from mostly being played on the ground to the possession game we have today just look how the shape of the caman has changed through the years
Your wife told you that, didn't she??
Your right JC ;) you need to know these things in our house if want to survive to old age intact
And Croi its a fair cop you got me ;D ;) but is it not the first place you go to if you need to know something as you know I do.