After a rather uninspiring performance from Tyrone yesterday over old foes Derry, most Donegal fans would be thinking they are in a strong position to detyrone the current Ulster champions.
However, news from some club games in Donegal came through that both Michael Murphy and Neil McGee had to come off injured yesterday.
It's unsure how bad their injuries are but if Murphy is not available or not 100% fit it will be a big loss to Donegal.
However, on local radio this morning the Donegal management said they expect both players will be OK and back training soon.
Paddy McBrearty only came on in the second half in Donegal's win over Antrim, yet he still scored 1.02
Donegal scored 3.19 at home to Antrim whereas Tyrone failed to score a goal again in their 0.22 to 0.11 win.
Donegal will probably start as favourites as they finished the league strongly and look a lot fresher and attack minded compared to last year.
However I would still expect a defensive tactical battle between the local rivals similar to last year's Ulster final battle.
I wonder how Monaghan would prefer in the final or will we get a surprise from that side of the draw?
First, I'd expect Monaghan will be praying it's us, given their "issues" with Tyrone.
Second, Rory better have something up his sleeve to prevent a repeat of last year, where we had tonnes of possession, but kept going back and forward across midfield before being stripped of the ball trying to break the Tyrone 45. Especially as we are a younger team now, built more for speed than breaking through lines. Tyrone looked vulnerable to running yesterday early in the second half, but I'd expect they will play very conservatively and not leave much space to be exploited. Maybe McFadden and McBrearty, two strong ball winners, being kept inside (and used), would vary it and open it up, especially if they can get Murphy or Lacey on the ball to find them. But then again, how effective can it be if they're triple marked?
Also, we looked vulnerable ourselves to the diagonal ball into the right corner against Antrim, giving up a goal and several other very good opportunities. Wee Bradley would want to be watched in the area, although I'd expect us to be a bit more conservative too.
Tyrone are a bit further on than us. This is a big test for a number of inexperienced players (another reason Monaghan would fancy us more). It should be tight given it will not be an open game, but if we start foundering on the Tyrone 45 again, Tyrone might win with a few to spare.
The matchups will be interesting.
I'd expect:
Brennan on McHugh
Justy and McCarron managing Murphy between them
McNamee on McBrearty
McGrath to take Mark Bradley
McGee on Sean Cavanagh
Martin O'Reilly on Harte
I am expecting a very tight cagey match with no more than a point or two in it one way or the other. Neither side looked great in their opening games but did enough to win comfortably.
They say that goals win games & if that's true then Donegal might have an edge but not if they use the tactics they used in last year's Ulster final.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 29, 2017, 08:03:28 PM
They say that goals win games & if that's true then Donegal might have an edge but not if they use the tactics they used in last year's Ulster final.
This is a catch 22.
Donegal got criticised for taking pot shots against Monaghan two years ago when they hit a plethora of wides from distance and lost narrowly with McBrearty coming so close to leveling it at the end.
They then got criticised for not taking on the shots against Tyrone last year where it took a few wonderscores from Tyrone late on to edge it.
As for goals, Tyrone have the meanest defence in the game right now, in the big Championship games they've played in the past 2 years they haven't conceded any goals against Mayo, Kerry and Monaghan and didn't even concede a genuine goal opportunity in those games.
It will likely be a game decided on small margins but I don't think you can blame too much on Gallagher for last year's tactics. Those games were decided on very fine lines and sometimes you just have to accept that is football. We were on the wrong side of something similar with Mayo the next day out so it's just something you have to accept, rather than play the blame game, it's better focusing on the little things that could have made the difference.
Tyrone look less impressive than this time last year and they're after a string of unimpressive performances in the latter stages of the league. Donegal look a better team than last year and the new lads and their freshness and added pace will definitely make Donegal a bigger threat in Croke Park this year but not sure how much it will change things in Clones in a Ulster tie.
Tyrone 8/11 and Donegal 6/4 is a bit surprising for me. I would have thought Donegal might be going in as slight favourites, I would expect those odds to close in before throw in.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 29, 2017, 10:08:57 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 29, 2017, 08:03:28 PM
They say that goals win games & if that's true then Donegal might have an edge but not if they use the tactics they used in last year's Ulster final.
This is a catch 22.
Donegal got criticised for taking pot shots against Monaghan two years ago when they hit a plethora of wides from distance and lost narrowly with McBrearty coming so close to leveling it at the end.
They then got criticised for not taking on the shots against Tyrone last year where it took a few wonderscores from Tyrone late on to edge it.
As for goals, Tyrone have the meanest defence in the game right now, in the big Championship games they've played in the past 2 years they haven't conceded any goals against Mayo, Kerry and Monaghan and didn't even concede a genuine goal opportunity in those games.
It will likely be a game decided on small margins but I don't think you can blame too much on Gallagher for last year's tactics. Those games were decided on very fine lines and sometimes you just have to accept that is football. We were on the wrong side of something similar with Mayo the next day out so it's just something you have to accept, rather than play the blame game, it's better focusing on the little things that could have made the difference.
Tyrone look less impressive than this time last year and they're after a string of unimpressive performances in the latter stages of the league. Donegal look a better team than last year and the new lads and their freshness and added pace will definitely make Donegal a bigger threat in Croke Park this year but not sure how much it will change things in Clones in a Ulster tie.
Tyrone 8/11 and Donegal 6/4 is a bit surprising for me. I would have thought Donegal might be going in as slight favourites, I would expect those odds to close in before throw in.
The odds are correct. Donegal's new players are unproven at this point.
On last year, we went 20-odd minutes without a score in the second half, despite monopolizing the possession. I don't think you can just absolve Rory of all blame, especially when someone like Leo McLoone, who has the strength to bust through tackles, was left on the bench (not for the only time last season). But, the key will be whether Donegal will be prepared for it this time. If they try various things and it doesn't work because we are not up to it, fair enough, but just strolling and handpassing about between the two 45s, before eventually getting stripped of the ball over and over again, absolutely will not do this time.
After sundays game I do not see how we can beat Donegal, I think we have went backwards.
Same issues, scoring forwards, getting the ball to them quick, freetaking. Do be brought back to within 3 points of the worst derry side I have ever seen is brutal. The scoreline flattered.
Also we can't get goals this year
Quote from: redhandefender on May 30, 2017, 12:01:17 PM
After sundays game I do not see how we can beat Donegal, I think we have went backwards.
Same issues, scoring forwards, getting the ball to them quick, freetaking. Do be brought back to within 3 points of the worst derry side I have ever seen is brutal. The scoreline flattered.
Also we can't get goals this year
Worse than that, we were level with them at the very start......
Looking forward to this one after a bit of a tame opening game. It's obviously a massive game for both teams and neither will want a defeat at this stage. I really don't think Tyrone are as bad as many people are making out. We've a very fit athletic team and plenty of scoring options with a good defensive system. The league defeat will hopefully bring a real focus to the Tyrone team. Donegal have had a strong season so far but will be interesting to see how their younger players get on in their first big championship game.
One area id like to see us really improve on is an outlet from defence when we turnover teams. On Sunday Bradley was left one on one but when we won the ball had to run it as no link player round the middle. By time we ran it Derry had men back.
Conall McCann was very good on Sunday and it was the first time he performed for Tyrone. Will be a big test for him the next day but he did enough that it would be very harsh to leave him out. If there is going to be changes the two half forwards could come under pressure. Mccarron, mcnabb, mccurry, Mcclure, mulgrew will all be pushing for places if fit.
I'd go with the following:
Morgan
Hampsey (McCrory may be more likely to start)
McNamee
McCarron
McCann
Justy
Harte
Conal McCann
C Cavanagh
Donnelly
Sludden
McClure
Bradley
Sean
McCurry
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 30, 2017, 08:56:30 PM
I'd go with the following:
Morgan
Hampsey (McCrory may be more likely to start)
McNamee
McCarron
McCann
Justy
Harte
Conal McCann
C Cavanagh
Donnelly
Sludden
McClure
Bradley
Sean
McCurry
I think Rory Brennan has to start for the simple reason that he has kept tabs on Ryan McHugh when he has picked him up. Did a great job on him in Ballybofey on his Championship debut in 2015 and did another great job on him when introduced last year in the Ulster final. Not sure if he man marked him in the u21 Ulster final in 2015 also where he got the MOTM award.
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Of all the mysteries of the GAA, trying to explain the disciplinary processes to outsiders is the most difficult.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Where'd you get your information?
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Of all the mysteries of the GAA, trying to explain the disciplinary processes to outsiders is the most difficult.
Well in this case its quite easy, when there is inconclusive evidence of something happening generally no one can be held accountable.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 01, 2017, 09:03:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Where'd you get your information?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/40122557
He's a lucky boy.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 01, 2017, 09:03:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Looks like Donnelly will avoid a ban for his altercation with McKaigue, a very lucky boy.
Where'd you get your information?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/40122557
Good man
Only if your from Antrim do the Gaa CCCC come after you when it's vague with video evidence
would mattie have been that big a loss to tyrone anyway? the lad does not seem to be enjoying his football this year hence the striking out. could see him walking off the panel any time.
Quote from: southtyronegael on June 01, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
would mattie have been that big a loss to tyrone anyway? the lad does not seem to be enjoying his football this year hence the striking out. could see him walking off the panel any time.
Only a man who is still driving around in a Ford Anglia could deliver posts with such bitterness and resentment.
Donnelly has won two All Stars on the bounce, I'd say he's enjoyed his football under Harte for the most part.
Quote from: southtyronegael on June 01, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
would mattie have been that big a loss to tyrone anyway? the lad does not seem to be enjoying his football this year hence the striking out. could see him walking off the panel any time.
Or maybe he was just sick of Chris McKaigue hanging off him for the previous 60 minutes.
im talking about this year lads. mattie playing very poor and already been sent off twice this year before the mc kaigue incident. something not right. and as for talk of ford anglias, your watchin too many mickey harte interviews you brainwashed fool.
Ford Anglia 105e (1959-1968), an ionic car of its time when Ford ruled the roost in car sales and production. Just over one million produced but almost impossible to find one nowadays due to its problems with rust that has reduced many UK produced cars of that time to a pile of dust. It was available as 2-door saloon, 3-door estate car and 2-door panel van. It had a 997 cc engine but the later Super model had a 1198 cc engine. A new Anglia saloon tested by the British Motor magazine in 1959 had a top speed of 73.8 mph and 0-60 mph in 26.9 seconds. A fuel consumption of 41.2 miles per gallon was recorded (amazing for this time). The test car cost £610. Eventually, the Anglia was pushed into the background by the newer Ford Cortina which was available in 3 and 5 door models. For those of a certain age you will remember the clanging sound of the engine being turned over before starting and the Ford engine shared by the Anglia and Cortina to be easy to jump start but with a starter motor that would often jam, only relieved by shunting the car back and forward while in gear.
(http://i.imgur.com/9zXrdEL.jpg)
If you want to drive around the rural roads of Tyrone in a Ford Anglia then you should seek out an import from South Africa where the rust problems were reduced by the climate. The only problem is that it is expensive to buy a good running model that will take you to Clones. Beware of models that have been over modded with much of the original car stripped away.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C852949 (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C852949)
So much for staying off this board until Harte was gone eh STG. Still, it was good when it lasted.
With Brolly on such a mission to undermine Harte and his style of football on the media, I am surprised he's not doing the same on here. Wwwwwwwwwwait a minute!
What did youse make of Jim's article about Tyrone and how he thinks this time is coached to a higher level than the legendary team of the noughties?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mickey-harte-and-brendan-rodgers-share-same-vision-1.3100537
I think Jim is right, that most teams are being coached a lot more now on how to play and certain moves.
The game is analysed and thought about a lot more now than even 5 years ago.
There is so much talk now about defensive and attacking systems and how to break them down and I love this term "Punching holes" which has creeped into our analysis.
Video and statistics have played a huge part in how managers and coaches train their teams now and so there is less room for individual flair I feel. Another phrase we've heard a lot lately is "we're not in the entertainment business" but we just want to focus in winning. "Winning at all costs" is another one.
The game has changed a hell of a lot over the last 10 years with managers learning off each other and then building on what they see was successful for another team.
I think McGuinness saw how well Tyrone brought their half forwards back to help the defence and hunt in packs back in 2003 and so he thought why can't we not bring more players back and then play on the break like a lot of soccer teams do.
McGuinness certainly has had the biggest impact on the game I think for a long time. His influence has made the game a lot more tactical and so a lot more coached as how teams would have to play to break down this defensive blanket system. A lot is being learnt from other sports like soccer and rugby. How teams defend the scoring zone and no longer play 1 on 1 defenders for the most part. How forwards make runs at different angles and rarely kick long passes any more as they will be intercepted by sweepers.
Personally, I was lucky enough to see Tyrone play in the late 80s and 90s and whilst we didn't win an AI I used to really enjoy our style of play and how we could tear teams apart with great pace and passing. If Michael Murphy had played back then he would have been a superstar as he would have had a lot more space to operate in around the square. No the full forward line is a horrible place to play nowadays and as we saw in the Ulster final last year, the
ball is rarely kicked into you and if you do happen to beat your man there's another 2 or 3 waiting on you. Recycle is the new way forward (or back actually) and more often than not a pass into the corners will often be recycled back out to the 40 where there is more room.
I enjoy reading Jim's articles as they dig a lot deeper than most peoples analysis but I'm not so happy how our game has changed and rarely enjoy watching any games any more. Maybe cos I bring my kids to see the Dubs annihilate all before them and the game is over by half time or else see Tyrone labour with their slow build up play against teams who nearly always line up in the same formation as they do.
Fuzzman, i said I was stayin off the Tyrone forum cause its full of pukes.
Quote from: southtyronegael on June 02, 2017, 01:52:34 PM
Fuzzman, i said I was stayin off the Tyrone forum cause its full of pukes.
That's just Tyrone in general.
Wow, a carlow poster. Are you the first we've had?
Who do you want to win between Tyrone and Donegal. We might meet in the next round of qualifiers.
I'm surprised there aren't more Donegal posters on this board over the years. Do they have their own board somewhere? What's the mood in Donegal this year? Do they think they're on the way back up already or are they worried the good years have gone?
A repeat of the Ulster final in the minor game I see.
Do they have Broadband there?
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 02, 2017, 02:22:53 PM
Wow, a carlow poster. Are you the first we've had?
Who do you want to win between Tyrone and Donegal. We might meet in the next round of qualifiers.
I'm surprised there aren't more Donegal posters on this board over the years. Do they have their own board somewhere? What's the mood in Donegal this year? Do they think they're on the way back up already or are they worried the good years have gone?
A repeat of the Ulster final in the minor game I see.
Often wondered why there aren't more of us too, especially in light of our relative success in recent years. There's been a few over the years, but they seem to drift off eventually.
On the mood in the county, I'm not living there, but from what I've heard and read there's a fair bit of optimism right now, if a bit of caution that this year is probably too soon. Beating Tyrone AND Monaghan is a tall order for a bunch of players not proven at senior championship level. But, were we to beat Tyrone, we'd obviously be hopeful that we could win Ulster, even if we'd likely be underdogs against an experienced Monaghan team. Whatever happens, I think we all feel that there's the makings of a decent team for the coming seasons. Whether Rory Gallagher is the man to bring them to an Ulster title and beyond remains to be seen.
Feelings in the county are quite mixed at the moment. we are delighted with the new players who have integrated so well but the jusy is still very much out on Rory Gallagher who seems to have a way of rubbing people up the wrong way. To be without Leo McLoone & McNiallis s bad enough but to see a super young player like Stephen McBrearty opting out is worrying.
We are competitive, especially in Ulster, but the feeling would be that we have the players to push on to the next level but maybe not the management.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 02, 2017, 06:18:36 PM
Feelings in the county are quite mixed at the moment. we are delighted with the new players who have integrated so well but the jusy is still very much out on Rory Gallagher who seems to have a way of rubbing people up the wrong way. To be without Leo McLoone & McNiallis s bad enough but to see a super young player like Stephen McBrearty opting out is worrying.
We are competitive, especially in Ulster, but the feeling would be that we have the players to push on to the next level but maybe not the management.
we feel the same
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 02, 2017, 06:18:36 PM
Feelings in the county are quite mixed at the moment. we are delighted with the new players who have integrated so well but the jusy is still very much out on Rory Gallagher who seems to have a way of rubbing people up the wrong way. To be without Leo McLoone & McNiallis s bad enough but to see a super young player like Stephen McBrearty opting out is worrying.
We are competitive, especially in Ulster, but the feeling would be that we have the players to push on to the next level but maybe not the management.
we I feel the same ::)
at least we agree on this omaghjoe.
Quote from: StephenC on June 02, 2017, 11:59:23 AM
What did youse make of Jim's article about Tyrone and how he thinks this time is coached to a higher level than the legendary team of the noughties?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mickey-harte-and-brendan-rodgers-share-same-vision-1.3100537
I don't agree with his analysis of the Scottish Cup final or the current Tyrone team. Derek Macinnes with a miniscule budget compared to Brendan Rodgers had his team on top for long spells. Missed opportunities cost Aberdeen victory but it was a tactical triumph for him, not Brendan Rodgers.
Similarly I still haven't seen any evidence that the approach taken by this Tyrone team is any more effective than if they played in a more attacking fashion. I don't think they have beaten anybody in a big match that they couldn't have defeated using the natural attacking talent on the panel. If the defensive model was beating better teams then fair enough, but it hasn't so far. Whenever it gets close to doing so, Tyrone are invariably caught out late on by trying to defend a lead, or being unwilling to commit enough to attack to win an even game. I think they could get just as far playing more attack minded football, and they might even be better placed to win one of those big games too.
Fair decision on Mattie Donnelly, impossible to make out what actually happened based on the TV pictures.
Quote from: StephenC on June 02, 2017, 11:59:23 AM
What did youse make of Jim's article about Tyrone and how he thinks this time is coached to a higher level than the legendary team of the noughties?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mickey-harte-and-brendan-rodgers-share-same-vision-1.3100537
Jim's analysis of the Scot cup final was spot on.
Coaching in general in the GAA has advanced since the noughties, but it's way too early to pass judgement on Tyrone based on being impressive against Derry. This game should be a truer test of what both teams are about.
Donegal players seem to be wrapped in cotton wool not turning out for their clubs this weekend.
Unusual move for Donegal who usually only rest county players the week before but I think last weekend's scare with both Murphy & McGee coming off injured had a lot to do with it. Biggest game of the year for both counties & I can't blame them.
Quote from: skeog on June 04, 2017, 10:47:38 AM
Donegal players seem to be wrapped in cotton wool not turning out for their clubs this weekend.
Absolute joke, for all the shite Mickey gets regarding club games we, in Tyrone, are far from the worst. How many club games have Donegal players played in? In Tyrone I think we're on 7 out of 8 rounds were county players were playing. They played this weekend for sure.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 04, 2017, 08:31:20 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 04, 2017, 10:47:38 AM
Donegal players seem to be wrapped in cotton wool not turning out for their clubs this weekend.
Absolute joke, for all the shite Mickey gets regarding club games we, in Tyrone, are far from the worst. How many club games have Donegal players played in? In Tyrone I think we're on 7 out of 8 rounds were county players were playing. They played this weekend for sure.
Donegal players played in league games up until this weekend. 7 out of 9.
Donegal were on camp in the Lough Erne resort for the weekend.Imagine if Mickey decided the same wee trip to Cartron House uproar would ensue.
Quote from: skeog on June 04, 2017, 09:29:29 PM
Donegal were on camp in the Lough Erne resort for the weekend.Imagine if Mickey decided the same wee trip to Cartron House uproar would ensue.
Proper order too. Keep the money in Ulster.
Quote from: skeog on June 04, 2017, 09:29:29 PM
Donegal were on camp in the Lough Erne resort for the weekend.Imagine if Mickey decided the same wee trip to Cartron House uproar would ensue.
It would??
His wife's family own it I think.
Any injuries from the weekend?
Doengal league games went ahead at weekend but teams were forced to play without county men though a few fringe players played in games that were not deemed starred fixtures. Dont think tyrone clubs would put up with this nor should they as its outside 13 day rule. in fairness to mickey and tyrone this year they have adhered to rules alongside county committe. If all counties done same there would be less issues and a fairer playing field for all. Reflection of the clubs in donegal that its allowed to happen.
Quote from: the goal was on on June 05, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Doengal league games went ahead at weekend but teams were forced to play without county men though a few fringe players played in games that were not deemed starred fixtures. Dont think tyrone clubs would put up with this nor should they as its outside 13 day rule. in fairness to mickey and tyrone this year they have adhered to rules alongside county committe. If all counties done same there would be less issues and a fairer playing field for all. Reflection of the clubs in donegal that its allowed to happen.
In Tyrone if even one fringe county player is eligible to play then everyone is eligible. Everyone in the squad is treated equally that's perhaps why we have seen some fringe players leave the county setup in favour of the clubs. I have to say that the club season has run very well to date with county men playing 7 out of the 8 games to date. Club players seem happier as well that their not being messed about without football.
Quote from: Tyrone Gaa on June 05, 2017, 03:19:53 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on June 05, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Doengal league games went ahead at weekend but teams were forced to play without county men though a few fringe players played in games that were not deemed starred fixtures. Dont think tyrone clubs would put up with this nor should they as its outside 13 day rule. in fairness to mickey and tyrone this year they have adhered to rules alongside county committe. If all counties done same there would be less issues and a fairer playing field for all. Reflection of the clubs in donegal that its allowed to happen.
In Tyrone if even one fringe county player is eligible to play then everyone is eligible. Everyone in the squad is treated equally that's perhaps why we have seen some fringe players leave the county setup in favour of the clubs. I have to say that the club season has run very well to date with county men playing 7 out of the 8 games to date. Club players seem happier as well that their not being messed about without football.
Club season running well in Donegal as well with county players playing in 7 out of 9 games to date. Club players getting plenty of games in the summer months which is only right.
It's all gone very quiet again regarding this game. Are both camps just keeping their cards very close to their chests?
Where do people see this game being won and lost or will it be very similar to last year with lots of shadow boxing and just keeping it tight into the final 1/4 of the game.
Why did Paddy McBrearty not start the last day?
I see in the Donegal Democrat that Brian McEniff reckons he should play Hugh McFadden in the FF line as a big man to support McBrearty.
If Tyrone win they will feel last year was their turning point over Donegal whereas Donegal will be out to prove it was just a blip. No doubt Monaghan will be very keen observers.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 07, 2017, 03:22:36 PM
It's all gone very quiet again regarding this game. Are both camps just keeping their cards very close to their chests?
Where do people see this game being won and lost or will it be very similar to last year with lots of shadow boxing and just keeping it tight into the final 1/4 of the game.
Why did Paddy McBrearty not start the last day?
I see in the Donegal Democrat that Brian McEniff reckons he should play Hugh McFadden in the FF line as a big man to support McBrearty.
If Tyrone win they will feel last year was their turning point over Donegal whereas Donegal will be out to prove it was just a blip. No doubt Monaghan will be very keen observers.
I have always loved Donegal and have a place in Buncrana, I hope they destroy the bogmen on the 18th of this month and further hope they or Monaghan go on to win Ulster.
http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/michael-murphy-fully-fit-for-tyrone-match/
R Donnelly, McCarron and Justy all fit. McNamee seems to be only injury for Tyrone
Presume you mean McNabb not McNamee.
Would be good to see Richie Donnelly get a good run with no injuries to see what level he can get to.
Is well able to shoot from outside the blanket area which will be needed in most big games.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 09, 2017, 10:26:15 AM
Presume you mean McNabb not McNamee.
Would be good to see Richie Donnelly get a good run with no injuries to see what level he can get to.
Is well able to shoot from outside the blanket area which will be needed in most big games.
Yes, sorry.....6 weeks for McNabb?
Agree on Richie, could be a big man for the last 10 mins
Just wondering what did most of ye think about the Ulster final last year?
Did you enjoy it as a tight close game as Mickey Harte said or did you not enjoy it at all?
Obviously the Tyrone fans will have enjoyed the final 5-10 mins but most people I would imagine hate watching that cagey defence style of a game but some people do find it intriguing.
All this talk about Tyrone not scoring many goals concerns some people but I really believe they have strategically decided not to waste good point scoring chances by going for goals as there are so many defenders in that area now.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 09, 2017, 11:27:01 AM
All this talk about Tyrone not scoring many goals concerns some people but I really believe they have strategically decided not to waste good point scoring chances by going for goals as there are so many defenders in that area now.
In 2015 out of 63 championship games played, there were only 3 games where the side that scored less goals than the opposition won.
Not sure what the figure is for last year but I'd imagine that it is fairly similar.
I find it hard to buy the notion that this is a strategic decision by Tyrone.
I think it is a by-product of their overall defensive approach to the game.
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 09, 2017, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 09, 2017, 11:27:01 AM
All this talk about Tyrone not scoring many goals concerns some people but I really believe they have strategically decided not to waste good point scoring chances by going for goals as there are so many defenders in that area now.
In 2015 out of 63 championship games played, there were only 3 games where the side that scored less goals than the opposition won.
Not sure what the figure is for last year but I'd imagine that it is fairly similar.
I find it hard to buy the notion that this is a strategic decision by Tyrone.
I think it is a by-product of their overall defensive approach to the game.
I think it's a confidence in how they feel they can shut out teams.
While some people may not enjoy the way Tyrone set out, it's very effective and the only thing that has cost them from being successful in the past few years has been wastefulness in front of the posts. They blew 3 or 4 excellent goal chances against Kerry, had the only goal chance of the game against Mayo last year and kicked a number of really poor wides they should have been nailing against Mayo. If you look at the league game against Dublin and Mayo this year, they also kicked both of those games away with poor wides.
On a tactics perspective I believe our gameplan has worked against the big sides but we haven't had that conviction or clinical quality in the final third to take advantage of the opportunities.
We're talking very small margins here and I'd be hopeful it might come together for us in front of the posts in one of those big games this year.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 09, 2017, 11:27:01 AM
Just wondering what did most of ye think about the Ulster final last year?
Did you enjoy it as a tight close game as Mickey Harte said or did you not enjoy it at all?
Obviously the Tyrone fans will have enjoyed the final 5-10 mins but most people I would imagine hate watching that cagey defence style of a game but some people do find it intriguing.
All this talk about Tyrone not scoring many goals concerns some people but I really believe they have strategically decided not to waste good point scoring chances by going for goals as there are so many defenders in that area now.
I didn't enjoy it. We just couldn't function up front in the second half, as it just kind of felt inevitable all through the second half that Tyrone would ultimately edge it. I'd imagine it was similar to how Tyrone felt against us in 2011, 2012 and 2013 when our defense just strangled Tyrone in the second half.
Even when Toye edged us in front in injury time, I just wasn't feeling good about the game (I think it would have been an undeserved win had we hung on, in contrast to the previous year's final when I was banging my head against the wall with our second half dominance but utter inability to find the target). Pure frustration. But that's as someone with a vested interest in the outcome.
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 09:11:27 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 09, 2017, 11:27:01 AM
Just wondering what did most of ye think about the Ulster final last year?
Did you enjoy it as a tight close game as Mickey Harte said or did you not enjoy it at all?
Obviously the Tyrone fans will have enjoyed the final 5-10 mins but most people I would imagine hate watching that cagey defence style of a game but some people do find it intriguing.
All this talk about Tyrone not scoring many goals concerns some people but I really believe they have strategically decided not to waste good point scoring chances by going for goals as there are so many defenders in that area now.
I didn't enjoy it. We just couldn't function up front in the second half, as it just kind of felt inevitable all through the second half that Tyrone would ultimately edge it. I'd imagine it was similar to how Tyrone felt against us in 2011, 2012 and 2013 when our defense just strangled Tyrone in the second half.
Even when Toye edged us in front in injury time, I just wasn't feeling good about the game (I think it would have been an undeserved win had we hung on, in contrast to the previous year's final when I was banging my head against the wall with our second half dominance but utter inability to find the target). Pure frustration. But that's as someone with a vested interest in the outcome.
The breeze was very strong that day, a lot more noticeable than it looked on TV and I think it was a major factor in why both teams struggled in each half respectively, both teams were forced to shoot from distance and it was almost impossible in that wind. Ultimately it came down to the fine margins, Cavanagh, Harte and McCurry came up with a few clutch scores when we needed them and Murphy missed a crucial free late on which I feel that it had it gone over it was Donegal's. Munroe also hit McGlynn a great shoulder but it was one of those that happened so quick and could easily have had a free awarded for it.
I thought Gallagher got his tactics spot on in that game but the breaks fell Tyrone's way that day. It's worth noting that Donegal paid the price for taking pot shots in the final against Monaghan the year before and narrowly lost by a point, last year they tried a different approach by trying to be patient and work better opportunities but Tyrone's last 4/5 points in that game were as good a points you'd see in that sort of pressurised environment.
I think on most occasions Donegal would have done enough that day, Harte and Cavanagh really stood up and won it for Tyrone that day.
Think this game will have taken on some extra significance now with Mayo now in the qualifiers. Very possible the loser could face Mayo in round 3 of the qualifiers and neither side would want that game so early.
Looks like Tyrone are at full strength bar McNabb. I hope we go with two scoring forwards, would like Mickey to start McCurry and Bradley but I think it will be similar to Derry with Justy and McCarron in and 2 of Hamspey/Meyler/McCrory/McGeary to miss out.
Donegal have a full strength squad too now that Ciaran Gillespie is back in full training.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 11, 2017, 07:29:34 PM
Think this game will have taken on some extra significance now with Mayo now in the qualifiers. Very possible the loser could face Mayo in round 3 of the qualifiers and neither side would want that game so early.
Looks like Tyrone are at full strength bar McNabb. I hope we go with two scoring forwards, would like Mickey to start McCurry and Bradley but I think it will be similar to Derry with Justy and McCarron in and 2 of Hamspey/Meyler/McCrory/McGeary to miss out.
Huge game on Sunday for both teams. With Mayo already in qualifiers and having to meet a provincial champion in the quarter finals it could be an extremely tough route to a semi final for the losers. Given the dissenting voices in Tyrone and poor end to the league a big performance and win here could do a lot for the team.
Can't see too many changes from the last day. I'd say the two half forwards could be the players under the most pressure to keep their places. A fit mccarron will more than likely come in though he may keep justy in reserve depending on just how fit he is. Mccurry showed well the last day but think he'll be held back for impact sub.
R Donnelly meant to be going well in training so that should strengthen the squad further.
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 12, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
I'd definitely like to see us push up more on teams. If we do then the players have to be super aggressive to win possession as it's a dangerous tactics. If you could push up for part of the first half and get a lead it would make the counter attacking game even more effective in the second half ad Donegal would be forced to come out.
I have saw signs of us trying to push up at times this season, not always effectively though. But maybe now with the increased fitness and work on it over the last few months it'll be tried on Sunday. I think it will be used for part of the game anyway.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 12, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
It would be nice to see both teams come out and stretch the game a bit. Respective pushing up would be one way to help this, as it might force the keepers to go long a bit more too.
Rory Gallagher promised us less dropping off and more high press this season, pretty much in response to what the better teams have been doing. Even if we lose on Sunday, I hope he follows through. Because even a six point loss would better than that soul-destroying shite in the second half of the final last year!
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 12, 2017, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 12, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
I'd definitely like to see us push up more on teams. If we do then the players have to be super aggressive to win possession as it's a dangerous tactics. If you could push up for part of the first half and get a lead it would make the counter attacking game even more effective in the second half ad Donegal would be forced to come out.
I have saw signs of us trying to push up at times this season, not always effectively though. But maybe now with the increased fitness and work on it over the last few months it'll be tried on Sunday. I think it will be used for part of the game anyway.
You don't think Tyrone will concede the kick-outs again this time?
It worked well for them last year. We had reams and reams of possession, but just kept running into that wall at the 45.
Quote from: J70 on June 12, 2017, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 12, 2017, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 12, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
I'd definitely like to see us push up more on teams. If we do then the players have to be super aggressive to win possession as it's a dangerous tactics. If you could push up for part of the first half and get a lead it would make the counter attacking game even more effective in the second half ad Donegal would be forced to come out.
I have saw signs of us trying to push up at times this season, not always effectively though. But maybe now with the increased fitness and work on it over the last few months it'll be tried on Sunday. I think it will be used for part of the game anyway.
You don't think Tyrone will concede the kick-outs again this time?
It worked well for them last year. We had reams and reams of possession, but just kept running into that wall at the 45.
Both teams had loads of easy possession. The only difference last year was sean Cavanaghs wonder point. Had that dropped short which it nearly did, donegal would have held on imo
Quote from: J70 on June 12, 2017, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 12, 2017, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 12, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Not meaning to sound so negative but the worst thing about watching Tyrone games nowadays is there is no variation in our game plan from game to game.
You know how we are gonna set up and it will come down to our shooting again.
Last year our late flurry of far out points stole the game from under their noses. Against Mayo we didn't our chances after Sean went off.
It would be nice to see something new like the way Kerry pushed up on Dublin last year and scored two quick goals.
It's just become so boring and robotic that we all know how the game is gonna pan out and we could just fast forward to the final 10 minutes plus injury time.
I'd definitely like to see us push up more on teams. If we do then the players have to be super aggressive to win possession as it's a dangerous tactics. If you could push up for part of the first half and get a lead it would make the counter attacking game even more effective in the second half ad Donegal would be forced to come out.
I have saw signs of us trying to push up at times this season, not always effectively though. But maybe now with the increased fitness and work on it over the last few months it'll be tried on Sunday. I think it will be used for part of the game anyway.
You don't think Tyrone will concede the kick-outs again this time?
It worked well for them last year. We had reams and reams of possession, but just kept running into that wall at the 45.
I think they'll concede a lot of the kickouts but hopefully not all. If they have a free in and time to set up I'd imagine they'll try to push up. Could be wrong though.
David Coldrick down to ref this one.
Tyrone 8/11, Donegal 6/4.
Donegal seem like value to me. Expecting a tight game but I fancy Donegal by a pt or two on account on having better forwards and Tyrone not having a reliable freetaker
Read this in the Irish News
Donegal are targeting a remarkable seventh consecutive Ulster final appearance, having already surpassed their own run of five-in-a-row from 1989 to 1993.
Putting that streak into perspective, it's the longest by any county since Down were in all the finals from 1958 to 1969 inclusive (Cavan, of course, appeared in 18 from 1939 to 1956).
That's very impressive considering how strong Armagh were in Ulster during the 2000s.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 14, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
Read this in the Irish News
Donegal are targeting a remarkable seventh consecutive Ulster final appearance, having already surpassed their own run of five-in-a-row from 1989 to 1993.
Putting that streak into perspective, it's the longest by any county since Down were in all the finals from 1958 to 1969 inclusive (Cavan, of course, appeared in 18 from 1939 to 1956).
That's very impressive considering how strong Armagh were in Ulster during the 2000s.
yeah, we won in 2000, 2002, 2004/5/6 and 2008. We weren't beaten in any finals though
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 13, 2017, 12:13:15 AM
Tyrone 8/11, Donegal 6/4.
Donegal seem like value to me. Expecting a tight game but I fancy Donegal by a pt or two on account on having better forwards and Tyrone not having a reliable freetaker
For me this is one to avoid on the gambling front - overall things are way too tight between the two teams and I suspect it will be whoever performs slightly better on the day.
Yep, even though Donegal mostly won, apart from the game where Joe McMahon was sent off when Donegal hit a goal and a spurt of points midway through the second half, these games have all been up for grabs right to the end.
Plus, we don't know how the younger Donegal lads will cope in this type of match. One third of the team has not been in a game like this. Very hard to predict.
Is McGuinness and Rory Gallagher pals again?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-lack-of-cutting-edge-cost-mayo-another-tight-game-1.3116975
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 14, 2017, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 13, 2017, 12:13:15 AM
Tyrone 8/11, Donegal 6/4.
Donegal seem like value to me. Expecting a tight game but I fancy Donegal by a pt or two on account on having better forwards and Tyrone not having a reliable freetaker
For me this is one to avoid on the gambling front - overall things are way too tight between the two teams and I suspect it will be whoever performs slightly better on the day.
No shit Sherlock!!
A lot has been made lately about teams saving their better forwards for the final 15 mins where they are fresh to come on and punch holes in the blanket defence who have worked hard maybe for 55 mins.
We have saw the Dubs do this for some time now and I've noticed Mickey Harte seems to do something similar lately though maybe not with the same firepower.
I'm just wondering is this were Donegal could fall down on Sunday not having great options from the bench?
I think there's not a lot between teams like Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan and Mayo (maybe Galway) and it's that final 15 mins that will decide the winner.
Who would be the stronger Donegal subs to come on?
McBrearty will probably start, so it will be under-21s coming in to the forwards, maybe the likes of Martin McElhinney into the half-forwards.
Who are Donegal midfielders now? Would that be a strong sector for them? Tyrone's is hit and miss.
Wasn't it Murphy and Jason McGee against Antrim?
Murphy scored 5 frees against Antrim and one from play.
Young Thompson scored 3 frees and 1 from play
Lacey came on as a sub on the 50th min. McBrearty 52nd min scoring 1.02 and McElhinney 57th
I'm looking forward to hearing the Tyrone team tonight as Mickey has a few tough calls to make.
Despite Conal McCann doing quite well against Derry, I think many would not be that surprised if he didn't make the starting 15 this time. It will be interesting to see does Mickey stick with Mattie in the FF line again though he probably won't spend too much time in there anyway.
If McCarron comes in does Hampsey make way or McCrory?
Michael hegarty has said in today's paper that Donegal will win this game by 8 or 9 points no bother. Seems to be a lot of confidence around Donegal and that's very big talk there.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 15, 2017, 07:01:36 PM
Michael hegarty has said in today's paper that Donegal will win this game by 8 or 9 points no bother. Seems to be a lot of confidence around Donegal and that's very big talk there.
I would have huge respect for Michael Hegarty, he is one of the few players I know who makes the game look easy & he is worth the admission price any day of the week but his optimism would not be matched by most Donegal people.
Yes, we have the makings of a fine side but this year may be a year or two soon for some of them & the jury is still out on Rory Gallaghers style.
Mind you, I was talking to a few Tyrone men over the weekend & they held out very little hope for their men.
If Donegal hit their stride & Rory Gallagher loosens the shackles a bit then fair enough Donegal will do well but the memory of the second half last year will take a long time to get over
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 15, 2017, 07:19:13 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 15, 2017, 07:01:36 PM
Michael hegarty has said in today's paper that Donegal will win this game by 8 or 9 points no bother. Seems to be a lot of confidence around Donegal and that's very big talk there.
I would have huge respect for Michael Hegarty, he is one of the few players I know who makes the game look easy & he is worth the admission price any day of the week but his optimism would not be matched by most Donegal people.
Yes, we have the makings of a fine side but this year may be a year or two soon for some of them & the jury is still out on Rory Gallaghers style.
Mind you, I was talking to a few Tyrone men over the weekend & they held out very little hope for their men.
If Donegal hit their stride & Rory Gallagher loosens the shackles a bit then fair enough Donegal will do well but the memory of the second half last year will take a long time to get over
There would be element of Tyrone people who'd nearly be glad to see the team beat so they could give out about Mickey harte. Some of the same people where at it in 2008 and by the end of the year were Tyrone and Mickey harte super fans again.
Very surprised no changes at all and Mickey usually doesn't bother naming dummy teams
1 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc – 60 (17)
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin – 96 (24)
3 – Ronan McNamee – Achadh Uí Aráin – 63 (18)
4 – Pádraig Hampsey – Oileán a'Ghuail – 21 (3)
5 – Tiernan McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 55 (14)
6 – Rory Brennan – Trí Leac – 27 (9)
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin – 117 (38)
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh – 135 (49)
9 – Conall McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 27 (5)
10 – Kieran McGeary – Cabhán a'Chaortainn – 18 (4)
11 – Niall Sludden – An Droim Mór – 28 (6)
12 – Conor Meyler – An Omaigh – 23 (6)
13 – Mark Bradley – Coill an Chlochair – 34 (13)
14 – Sean Cavanagh (c) – An Mhaigh – 235 (85)
15 – Matthew Donnelly – Trí Leac – 91 (28)
16 – Michael O'Neill – Cluain Eo – 24 (5)
17 – Lee Brennan – Trí Leac – 13 (1)
18 – Frank Burns – Cabhán a'Chaortainn – 5 (1)
19 – Michael Cassidy – Ard Bó – 1 (0)
20 – Cathal McCarron – An Droim Mór – 98 (25)
21 – Declan McClure – Cluain Eo – 10 (1)
22 – Darren McCurry – Éadan na dTorc – 73 (26)
23 – Justin McMahon – An Omaigh – 108 (38)
24 – Cathal McShane – Eoghan Ruadh Uí Néill – 27 (8)
25 – David Mulgrew – Ard Bó – 6 (1)
26 – Ronan O'Neill – An Omaigh – 64 (14)
27 – Richard Donnelly – Trí Leac – 15 (5)
28 – Cahir McCullagh – An Caisleán Glas – 6 (0)
29 – Hugh Pat McGeary – Cabhán a'Chaortainn – 8 (0)
30 – Ronan McHugh – Achadh Uí Aráin – 5 (0)
31 – Padraig McNulty – Dún Geanainn – 38 (8)
I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a change or two on the day. Sometimes he makes changes sometimes he doesn't.
I assume the first 26 are the players that can be used and the other five are just listed so they're included. Anyone missing must be injured.
No Justy MM be happy.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 15, 2017, 09:01:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a change or two on the day. Sometimes he makes changes sometimes he doesn't.
I assume the first 26 are the players that can be used and the other five are just listed so they're included. Anyone missing must be injured.
Is it just Loughran and McNabb not named there?
Is Loughran still on the panel?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 15, 2017, 09:50:10 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 15, 2017, 09:01:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a change or two on the day. Sometimes he makes changes sometimes he doesn't.
I assume the first 26 are the players that can be used and the other five are just listed so they're included. Anyone missing must be injured.
Is it just Loughran and McNabb not named there?
Is Loughran still on the panel?
Loughran played in in house game last week and still in panel. Must be carrying an injury, has struggled all year. Can't think of anyone else missing. With Mcaliskey, Munroe and joe gone the panel could be at 33.
Tyrone are going into this perfectly. The hype of running Dublin close has been dampened by a flat finish to the League. Fans were losing the run of themselves after early league results. The League is the League! What ever results happened against Mayo and more importantly Donegal mean little or nothing now! Uncle Peter is keeping quieter this year, and no harm. He had to much to say about Tyrone last year.
Quote from: skeog on June 15, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
No Justy MM be happy.
Indeed, assuming he's not waiting until Sunday to see how fitness checks go.
Think Tyrone by a couple of points.
Quote from: skeog on June 15, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
No Justy MM be happy.
Speaking to Murph last night, he is distraught.
I believe Donegal don't name team until day now?
If so maybe that's why Mickey has named unchanged team and then the team will be different on the day with personnel and positional changes - can't see that team starting (Well I hope not).
Who would you change WT4?
Mickey might be thinking bringing on McCarron for 2nd half to mark MM.
McBrearty was well "held" last year so I wonder will he come out the field more this time.
All this nonsense with naming dummy teams days in advance simply to satisfy the printers needs to be sorted.
Since the days of teams lining out in accordance with the programme, either in terms of personnel or position, is well & truly over surely all we need are squad listings so that we can identify individual players.
Looking forward to a game full of venom and hatred!
This Donegal team are young and many untested in this type of atmosphere. Expect them to get a few early cards and possibly a red or two. We should win by 3 or 4 in the end
why does mickey feel the need to name numbers 27 to 31?. Its a 26 man panel. These other lads have as much chance of playing as cuthbert!
Quote from: the goal was on on June 16, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
why does mickey feel the need to name numbers 27 to 31?. Its a 26 man panel. These other lads have as much chance of playing as cuthbert!
I'd imagine to make them feel as much part of the panel as the rest of the players in the 26. Which is fair enough given they've been training with the team since last November and been involved all year. You need a strong 30 plus squad to compete. Some of the players not in the 26 could well feature as the year goes on.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 16, 2017, 09:58:53 AM
Who would you change WT4?
Mickey might be thinking bringing on McCarron for 2nd half to mark MM.
McBrearty was well "held" last year so I wonder will he come out the field more this time.
For me I would put in either Lee B. or D McCurry in the corner and matty out to wing forward with possibly mcgeary dropping out (unluckly) - I would really like to see another out and out inside forward in there with Bradley.
Not sure he'll bring McCarron back in but if he did i'm not sure who he would drop out - I would drop McCrory out but Mickey defo wouldn't do that.
Are we convinced about Hampsey yet? He looked ponderous in the game at Celtic Park I thought although didn't do anything wrong but Donegal is a different kettle of fish to Derry who are Div 3 outfit!!!
Quote from: the goal was on on June 16, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
why does mickey feel the need to name numbers 27 to 31?. Its a 26 man panel. These other lads have as much chance of playing as cuthbert!
I think Custard is injured...
I think the thinking is that inside forwards are now a waste of a player (or position) as 1. It's hard to get them the ball as there is so little space and 2. If they do get it they are surrounded immediately and rarely get time to get a shot away. As I heard Brian McGuigan and a few others say that the role has become more of a hold the ball up and lay it off to the cavalry running through like we saw Bradley do a few times against Derry.
When he did make space for himself to shoot it was to run out to a harder angle than he started off at.
I think Hampsey is finding playing in the corner a bit different to playing up the middle and he's maybe not attacking the ball as much as we would have liked. Sunday will tell us more.
I wonder will it be the corner backs from both teams getting the goal chances again this time.
McCurry has become our supersub as he usually comes in bursting with energy and always willing to take on a shot.
Paddy McGrath grabbed one against Antrim!
Think you'll be able to buy tickets on the day?
I'd like to see McClure start this one.
I think McCarron will start anyway, probably at the expense of Meyler/McGeary. I can see McCrory going to 6 and Brennan detailing McHugh and possibly McClure in for Meyler/McGeary.
Quote from: ONeill on June 16, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
Think you'll be able to buy tickets on the day?
Yeah don't think there'd be any bother, especially for the terrace tickets.
Quote from: ONeill on June 16, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
Think you'll be able to buy tickets on the day?
Counting on it!
Plenty of tickets available. Big game ahead. Two pacy teams with little between them. A lot said about Donegal lack of experience ignores Tyrones players in the same boat. Last year's dissapointment will hopefully put fire in the bellies tomorrow. I think we've a stronger team this year than last with the clinging on to older legs costing us ultimately. The space in injury time last year was unforgivable. I expect Gillespie, McGee etc to be more capable of going the distance. Langan a good option of the bench also. Massive game. Ulster is there to be won. May the best team win.
It's kind of relaxing going in as slight underdogs and a relatively unknown quantity. Feels kind of like a free pass this season ( as long as things don't go TOO disastrously!). Hope it's a good game and there's no controversy.
Quote from: Rois on June 16, 2017, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: ONeill on June 16, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
Think you'll be able to buy tickets on the day?
Counting on it!
4 different teams playing, could be a big crowd
No Rory Brennan? Can only assume he's injured?
Ref not bother to counts steps these days,Big Sean nearly run home with it before taking a shot
Tyr 8 Donegal 5 at 28 mins.
Donegal in serious trouble here, Tyrone should have had 2 goals, and Donegal 1 but Tyrone are all over them
Donegal are back to where they were pre Jim. Plenty of talent but tactically inept and can't defend.
Play Donegal - push up on our kick-out. We have been awful at midfield.
Quote from: J70 on June 17, 2017, 09:53:50 AM
It's kind of relaxing going in as slight underdogs and a relatively unknown quantity. Feels kind of like a free pass this season ( as long as things don't go TOO disastrously!). Hope it's a good game and there's no controversy.
No such thing as a free pass.
Donegal kick out strategy is non existent. Like watching forwards and backs.
Quote from: lenny on June 18, 2017, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 17, 2017, 09:53:50 AM
It's kind of relaxing going in as slight underdogs and a relatively unknown quantity. Feels kind of like a free pass this season ( as long as things don't go TOO disastrously!). Hope it's a good game and there's no controversy.
No such thing as a free pass.
I would have taken a decent performance with promise and a loss. That's what I meant by free pass.
That last 15 minutes is as bad as we've seen from Donegal in ten years.
Started competitive plenty of end to end stuff for a wile but Tyrone blew them away for the last 15/20.
Donegal need to do something fast if its not to late
Up to Rory Gallagher to save his job now as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not saying win the game, but stem the f**king tide. That looked like headless chickens who didn't know what to do. Young lads folding and starting to hide maybe.
Is Ryan McHugh on the pitch?
Tyrone ran the clock down nicely during time.
Donegal need to press in the second half. If they don't do that why wouldn't Tyrone just knock the ball sideways and use the clock.
It's up to Donegal to change the tactical dynamic. Can they do that?
can't see us losing this game now.
Has Karl Lacey had a hair transplant ???
A terrible barnet, worse than Donegal first half performance
Big Sean should have nailed both those goals, would have a few years ago. First one would have been classical Cavanagh.
Donegal produced a few chances too which would have kept them well in it at this point.
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2017, 02:43:29 PM
Up to Rory Gallagher to save his job now as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not saying win the game, but stem the f**king tide. That looked like headless chickens who didn't know what to do. Young lads folding and starting to hide maybe.
Is Ryan McHugh on the pitch?
The thought crossed my mind
Tyrone long range range shooting has been brilliant for once. Very open game with 5 decent goal chances.
And can someone explain the footblock rule to some of those clowns on BBC. ::)
Quote from: TabClear on June 18, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
Tyrone long range range shooting has been brilliant for once. Very open game with 5 decent goal chances.
And can someone explain the footblock rule to some of those clowns on BBC. ::)
What are they sayin?
Quote from: TabClear on June 18, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
Tyrone long range range shooting has been brilliant for once. Very open game with 5 decent goal chances.
And can someone explain the footblock rule to some of those clowns on BBC. ::)
They said it wasn't. I'd be more concerned about missing stuff with all the fecking replays.
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2017, 02:43:29 PM
Up to Rory Gallagher to save his job now as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not saying win the game, but stem the f**king tide. That looked like headless chickens who didn't know what to do. Young lads folding and starting to hide maybe.
Is Ryan McHugh on the pitch?
I think this was always going to happen to this Donegal side eventually no matter who was managing them. Gallagher wasn't that hot a choice to begin with, though.
Mulgrew has looked good did I hear Canning right say he was 19?
mis kick and a goal, sorta goal when everything going for you, the game is over,
Fuk me McCann can't shoot and it still limps in
Donegal team outside of 4 or 5 players are very young, nearly rabbits in headlights stuff.
Disappointing one sided encounter. The young Donegal players look wrecked not surprising given Donegal management chose to overplay them this year.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
Disappointing one sided encounter. The young Donegal players look wrecked not surprising given Donegal management chose to overplay them this year.
I see the Donegal wans away on.
The rally woulda been a better bet, its rally weekend isnt it?
Outside of the first 20mins they are nearly worse than Derry, Donegal have 2 good midfielders coming but they need to play Murphy up with Mcbreaty
Is there a stranger sight at football match than men in their 50s wearing replica jerseys and waving a flag...
Half- hearted stuff now from Donegal. Completely given up. Shambles.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: TabClear on June 18, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
Tyrone long range range shooting has been brilliant for once. Very open game with 5 decent goal chances.
And can someone explain the footblock rule to some of those clowns on BBC. ::)
They said it wasn't. I'd be more concerned about missing stuff with all the fecking replays.
The guys in the studio understood it. The game commentators not so sure
Both keepers are complete eejits
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2017, 03:20:05 PM
Both keepers are complete eejits
Donegal keeper has done well. Two great saves albeit poor enough finishes. One very good piece of sweeping as well on a ball behind defence
This match reminds me of Down v Monaghan last year.
GOAL for Donegal!!!
Quote from: TabClear on June 18, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2017, 03:20:05 PM
Both keepers are complete eejits
Donegal keeper has done well. Two great saves albeit poor enough finishes. One very good piece of sweeping as well on a ball behind defence
His kick out is aimless though.
Quote from: Boycey on June 18, 2017, 03:16:40 PM
Is there a stranger sight at football match than men in their 50s wearing replica jerseys and waving a flag...
Or "waving cheerio" to opposition supporters
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 03:23:59 PM
Quote from: TabClear on June 18, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2017, 03:20:05 PM
Both keepers are complete eejits
Donegal keeper has done well. Two great saves albeit poor enough finishes. One very good piece of sweeping as well on a ball behind defence
His kick out is aimless though.
Which was why we went short last year.
Part of the problem is he few options.
Needs to learn from Durcan's development.
Harte out!
Well, hopefully a few favourable games in the qualifiers now to get these boys a bit of experience and maybe work on some tactics(kick out, midfield, attacking the blanket).
There's no way back now - we have to stick with these lads going forward, whether that means years as also-rans or not.
Tyrone masterclass. Successful Ulster title defence on the way. Pundits exposed as knowing nothing. Joe Brolly talking thru his hole again.
I said Tyrone were going into this game perfectly. Important for the fans not to lose the run of themselves and for Uncle Peter to keep his mouth closed!
Well done Mickey Harte today. Spot on stuff. Tougher days ahead. Masterclass. Now get off his back lads.
Anyone see the Bradley incident?
Sort of disappointed with the goal especially after all the warning signs seriously need to tighten that up
Excellent display form TYRONE. Are they genuine contenders? I think they are
I think winning today was much more vital for Tyrone than Donegal. A loss would have been a massive setback.
Still have to crack the Mayo jinx if paths cross and Dublin / Kerry will be much much stronger.
Still....great result, some very good performances and genuine options on the bench. Have to be please with that. Roll on Ulster final.
Wouldn't like to meet Donegal again this year though. Think they again re much better than they showed today.
There's a lot of ball to be played before September. Don't be counting your sour grapes before they hatch, Tyronies.
Fair play to Tyrone, showed much, much more in attack today and should really have won by a bit more. Donegal were very poor indeed and whilst Tyrone get credit for that, it's a little hard to know just where we're at. Need to work on the finishing because there should have been a few goals today, and similarly went to sleep a bit before the Donegal goal. But overall very good, it looked like they have indeed been working on adding more of an attacking edge than existed before.
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Ridiculous black card for Bradley.
Totally agree, it wasn't a deliberate trip. Having said that once it was given it should have been a free out for a foul.
Quote from: lenny on June 18, 2017, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Ridiculous black card for Bradley.
Totally agree, it wasn't a deliberate trip. Having said that once it was given it should have been a free out for a foul.
Umpires can't call foul so had to stand. Can only call cards.
Did Donegal have a half back line? I know Ryan McHugh had 5 on his back.
That was some hammering. I wonder how good Tyrone will be later on. They don't seem to have a Nerney forward like SON , Canavan or Brogan.
Rory Gallagher very abrupt on the highland radio interview afterwards told the interviewer not to be asking stupid questions.
Colm Cavanagh delivered a masterclass today.
Great performance but Donegal threw the towel in when Tyrone got on top so not an awful lot can be read from that.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2017, 03:53:28 PM
Excellent display form TYRONE. Are they genuine contenders? I think they are
They might be a Conor McManus type player away from beating a Kerry and Dublin. One in a season maybe but I would doubt they could beat both.
Quote from: skeog on June 18, 2017, 05:14:53 PM
Rory Gallagher very abrupt on the highland radio interview afterwards told the interviewer not to be asking stupid questions.
Seething?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 18, 2017, 05:16:48 PM
Colm Cavanagh delivered a masterclass today.
Great performance but Donegal threw the towel in when Tyrone got on top so not an awful can be read from that.
Cavanagh did indeed deliver a masterclass, he absolutely destroyed the Donegal captain and that does not happen very often.
I have never seen a Donegal team give so much space to any opposition let alone a team like Tyrone, they were toothless and offered very little in terms of commitment in the tackle and they were very badly outcoached, Donegal will grow from this and their youngsters now know what it takes at the Ulster championship level, they were found wanting but if they get a run in the qualifiers they could still have a say in this years championship.
As for Tyrone, they were very professional today but they will not be happy with the late goal and sloppy play in the last ten minutes, that said the game was well in hand and they sent a message to the Dubs and Kerry etc, great day out for Tyrone, Donegal, not so much.
Quote from: Christmas Lights on June 18, 2017, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 18, 2017, 05:14:53 PM
Rory Gallagher very abrupt on the highland radio interview afterwards told the interviewer not to be asking stupid questions.
Seething?
You can hardly blame the lad. After getting humiliated you hardly need stupid questions thrown at u!
I think we had 12 different scorers again today. I think the plan is we don't need corner forwards any more.
Gallagher under pressure I'd say. They collapsed today and couldn't break through the blanket.
What question was he asked?
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 18, 2017, 05:16:48 PM
Colm Cavanagh delivered a masterclass today.
Great performance but Donegal threw the towel in when Tyrone got on top so not an awful can be read from that.
Cavanagh did indeed deliver a masterclass, he absolutely destroyed the Donegal captain and that does not happen very often.
I have never seen a Donegal team give so much space to any opposition let alone a team like Tyrone, they were toothless and offered very little in terms of commitment in the tackle and they were very badly outcoached, Donegal will grow from this and their youngsters now know what it takes at the Ulster championship level, they were found wanting but if they get a run in the qualifiers they could still have a say in this years championship.
As for Tyrone, they were very professional today but they will not be happy with the late goal and sloppy play in the last ten minutes, that said the game was well in hand and they sent a message to the Dubs and Kerry etc, great day out for Tyrone, Donegal, not so much.
I would say that even from very early on the Donegal defence failed to put anything like sufficient pressure on the Tyrone shooters. Was amazed at how easily Tyrone players got through to scoring positions with barely a hand laid on them and the amount of shots they had under minimal pressure.
Gallagher will need to get a couple of performances out of them in the qualifiers or he will be out the door.
Delighted to hear that Gallagher was fuming. A nasty horrible individual.
Quote from: larryin89 on June 18, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
Delighted to hear that Gallagher was fuming. A nasty horrible individual.
What's this to do with?
Quote from: lenny on June 18, 2017, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Ridiculous black card for Bradley.
Totally agree, it wasn't a deliberate trip. Having said that once it was given it should have been a free out for a foul.
Especually given the 3 yellows to dobegal for the neck grabs. Maybe by the letter of the law they were all correct but that's two soft blacks Tyrone have got for trips this year. Don't think either warrants a black or was what the rule was intended to deal with.
Great performance by Tyrone, superb individual performances from McGeary, Sludden, Cavanagh and my MoM Tiernan McCann. He was everywhere today and barely put a foot wrong. To think there's people on the Tyrone thread that think that he isn't worth his place on the team. Donegal were exceptionally poor - young lads just not ready and Gallagher is being found out.
Quote from: Throw ball on June 18, 2017, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2017, 03:53:28 PM
Excellent display form TYRONE. Are they genuine contenders? I think they are
They might be a Conor McManus type player away from beating a Kerry and Dublin. One in a season maybe but I would doubt they could beat both.
Will they need to beat both this year?
Quote from: larryin89 on June 18, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
Delighted to hear that Gallagher was fuming. A nasty horrible individual.
Not a fan of Gallagher either...could not beat him by enough...
Let the Donegal folk deal with their manager. I felt the performance of the Tyrone young uns trumped the old guys except for cc of course a real good sign that they are nearing ready for bigger battles.
Quote from: tothetop03 on June 18, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 18, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
Delighted to hear that Gallagher was fuming. A nasty horrible individual.
Not a fan of Gallagher either...could not beat him by enough...
I'll add my distain also....dick!
He seems to get a bad rep everywhere he goes.
Quote from: rrhf on June 18, 2017, 08:56:17 PM
Let the Donegal folk deal with their manager. I felt the performance of the Tyrone young uns trumped the old guys except for cc of course a real good sign that they are nearing ready for bigger battles.
Thought McGeary and Hampsey were both superb. Was Meyler injured?
Wouldn't envisage any changes for the Ulster final if we have no injury concerns. Hopefully Mulgrew just suffered a knock, he did a great job on McHugh.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 18, 2017, 09:15:52 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 18, 2017, 08:56:17 PM
Let the Donegal folk deal with their manager. I felt the performance of the Tyrone young uns trumped the old guys except for cc of course a real good sign that they are nearing ready for bigger battles.
Thought McGeary and Hampsey were both superb. Was Meyler injured?
Wouldn't envisage any changes for the Ulster final if we have no injury concerns. Hopefully Mulgrew just suffered a knock, he did a great job on McHugh.
Mulgrew came down very heavy after an attempted catch. I think he's probably just bruised
Hampsey got the chance to come out the field by picking up Murphy and looked good, what was going on with his 2nd point being waved wide? Clueless nepotic Umpires as per usual, they got Bradley the line too with their undue influence
McGeary was excellent also, like Sludden he's a very composed player
Well done Tyrone. Excellent performance in all aspects.
We were completely outclassed. Getting beat happens, but the lack of passion from the players and the apparent lack of gameplan to break down the Tyrone defence were extremely frustrating. The hope now is to get out of this year without another hockying.
Haven't heard what Gallagher said, but I think serious questions need to be asked and answered after a performance like that.
I would not have been too shocked if someone told me beforehand that there would be six or seven points in it at the end, but I would have envisaged Tyrone pulling away late on after a tight battle. That we would basically throw in the towel in a ten minute period before half time after being well in the game, with players chasing shadows, marking no one, and allowing Tyrone players to stream through to hit unchallenged points, I wouldn't have believed in a million years. In addition, last year's final has been discussed to death, so one wonders what the hell Donegal were up to in training when preparing for this game, that they would basically spend much of the game trying to walk the ball through the center of the Tyrone half back line again? Young players can freeze, but is there any way that can be blamed for what looked like a case of complete tactical ineptitude?
P.S. Well done Tyrone. Superb performance.
Why does Thomas Kane/Niblock say Hampshey for Hampsey. Whass that about hi
Great day out and an excellent performance by Tyrone. Does anybody know if the championship on BBC is available on iPlayer during the week? The wife turned off the plug to sky box and didn't record the game!!
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 18, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
Why does Thomas Kane/Niblock say Hampshey for Hampsey. Whass that about hi
Maybe they have Dutch roots.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 09:51:51 PM
Great day out and an excellent performance by Tyrone. Does anybody know if the championship on BBC is available on iPlayer during the week? The wife turned off the plug to sky box and didn't record the game!!
Yeah, it'll be available after midnight tonight
Quote from: Aughafad on June 18, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 09:51:51 PM
Great day out and an excellent performance by Tyrone. Does anybody know if the championship on BBC is available on iPlayer during the week? The wife turned off the plug to sky box and didn't record the game!!
Yeah, it'll be available after midnight tonight
Good man, divorce was on the cards when I got home!
Surprised no one has mentioned it but imo the winning of the game was our press on the Donegal kick outs in the 2nd quarter. I was in Pat Mc Grane on 30 yard line and we really put serious pressure on McGinley. We then destroyed them on break ball and our shooting was phenomenal. Don't think I've ever seen us go that full on with the press.
Really looking forward to seeing Petey Harte's point in first half were he threw two pretty outrageous dummies, iirc, before sending it over with the weaker right foot.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 18, 2017, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 18, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
Why does Thomas Kane/Niblock say Hampshey for Hampsey. Whass that about hi
Maybe they have Dutch roots.
Or are just clowns
Thomash Kane
Only in stopped coming home from Clones for a few scoops..... whats a perfomance....
Quote from: tothetop03 on June 18, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
Only in stopped coming home from Clones for a few scoops..... whats a perfomance....
'Twas more than a few! ;D
Tyrone over prepared for this game, peaked too soon?
I was one of those that thought Mickey Harte's days were numbered. Life in the old dog yet.
Head completely bornt off me
Quote from: Main Street on June 18, 2017, 11:03:00 PM
Tyrone over prepared for this game, peaked too soon?
Been missing you Main St where have you been on the Tyrone threads.
Couple of things:
The atmopshere. It has completely changed because of the expected style of play. After the ball is thrown in, the crowd sorta sit back like it's the Crucible in Sheffield to watch the unfolding chess game. You could hear the players shout instructions. This time, though, Tyrone broke holes in the 45m stranglehold by simply running through it.
Secondly, Donegal are fooked. They're caught between the McGuinness era, the Gallagher system (whatever that is) and the misuse of Murphy who plays as a quarter back. What a waste.
McGinley pulled off some great saves but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Cavanagh should have slipped his one to Sludden who had an empty net to pop it into.
Quote from: ONeill on June 18, 2017, 11:22:30 PM
Couple of things:
The atmopshere. It has completely changed because of the expected style of play. After the ball is thrown in, the crowd sorta sit back like it's the Crucible in Sheffield to watch the unfolding chess game. You could hear the players shout instructions. This time, though, Tyrone broke holes in the 45m stranglehold by simply running through it.
Secondly, Donegal are fooked. They're caught between the McGuinness era, the Gallagher system (whatever that is) and the misuse of Murphy who plays as a quarter back. What a waste.
Couldn't figure out why Donegal didn't put Murphy at FF for second half. What was there to lose? It was almost as if it is seen as a manager having no plan to do that. Kerry aren't afraid to hoof it into Donaghy if required.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Annoys me when a commentator makes a standard save into an act of phyics defiance.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Annoys me when a commentator makes a standard save into an act of phyics defiance.
Haven't seen Brennan's on TV yet but Sean's effort was straight at McGinley. Poor effort, tbh.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: Aughafad on June 18, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 09:51:51 PM
Great day out and an excellent performance by Tyrone. Does anybody know if the championship on BBC is available on iPlayer during the week? The wife turned off the plug to sky box and didn't record the game!!
Yeah, it'll be available after midnight tonight
Good man, divorce was on the cards when I got home!
Surprised no one has mentioned it but imo the winning of the game was our press on the Donegal kick outs in the 2nd quarter. I was in Pat Mc Grane on 30 yard line and we really put serious pressure on McGinley. We then destroyed them on break ball and our shooting was phenomenal. Don't think I've ever seen us go that full on with the press.
Really looking forward to seeing Petey Harte's point in first half were he threw two pretty outrageous dummies, iirc, before sending it over with the weaker right foot.
Several people, including myself, were commenting here on the kick outs at half time.
It's been a big weakness for Donegal since Durcan and Big Neil left the team in 2015. And it's why Donegal went short last year.
Anyone playing us from here on in should know what to do. Murphy can't do EVERYTHING by himself.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 18, 2017, 05:16:48 PM
Colm Cavanagh delivered a masterclass today.
Great performance but Donegal threw the towel in when Tyrone got on top so not an awful lot can be read from that.
He did indeed. That man would burst a blood vessel trying to get a finger tip on the ball. A very brave player who would go in to tackles where people wouldn't throw their hat.
So many outstanding performances from Tyrone today. However the next day it starts off at zero zero. They will have to hit the rest button again.
They're will be some competition for places. Must say when Tyrone open up they are beautiful to watch.
Advice to Tyrone Gaels make sure Micky Hartes tea is made with water with a high PH level and eats nothing but organic food. He's some man to have. 8)
Too much being read into Tyrone simply having an excellent day.But if Mc Hugh had scored the goal earlier on,it would have been a different story.It was just a freak,one of those days everything goes right for one team,nothing goes right for their opponents.
We'll implement Mickey's healthy eating routine straight away. As for Tony, great to see you supplement the apples based diet with plenty of bitter citrus. We wouldn't want you going too soft on the red arses now! ;)
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Annoys me when a commentator makes a standard save into an act of phyics defiance.
You can almost hear the commentators brain kicking into reverse when he sees the replay! But nah, I'll just keep with my original wrong analysis.
On the shooting, Monaghan's McManus is brilliant in those one on one situations. Always seems to go low.
Head red as a berry today but well worth it after watching a masterclass by Mickey.
Atmosphere wasnt great but think that was because it was so one sided after first 10/15mins.
We are not clinical enough when going for goals. If there is a man over then he should get it. End of story. Fix this and we will be in CP in Sep.
Say it quietly but Murphy could be finished.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 18, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
Why does Thomas Kane/Niblock say Hampshey for Hampsey. Whass that about hi
It's the influence of Irish where the 'se' sound is 'sh'. Not uncommon.
Quote from: ned on June 19, 2017, 08:20:22 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Annoys me when a commentator makes a standard save into an act of phyics defiance.
You can almost hear the commentators brain kicking into reverse when he sees the replay! But nah, I'll just keep with my original wrong analysis.
On the shooting, Monaghan's McManus is brilliant in those one on one situations. Always seems to go low.
Completely agree regarding McManus, always keeps it low making it almost impossible to save. Ironically, I think that's what Tiernan was attempting as well, only he slightly ballsed it up! Still went in though!
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM
Head red as a berry today but well worth it after watching a masterclass by Mickey.
Atmosphere wasnt great but think that was because it was so one sided after first 10/15mins.
We are not clinical enough when going for goals. If there is a man over then he should get it. End of story. Fix this and we will be in CP in Sep.
Say it quietly but Murphy could be finished.
Was thinking that myself - After about 25 mins in the first half he was hardly fit to move. He can't play as an up and down the pitch midfielder. He needs to be playing from the halfway line up
Why is the BBC captioning all their staff with their club names?
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 19, 2017, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM
Head red as a berry today but well worth it after watching a masterclass by Mickey.
Atmosphere wasnt great but think that was because it was so one sided after first 10/15mins.
We are not clinical enough when going for goals. If there is a man over then he should get it. End of story. Fix this and we will be in CP in Sep.
Say it quietly but Murphy could be finished.
Was thinking that myself - After about 25 mins in the first half he was hardly fit to move. He can't play as an up and down the pitch midfielder. He needs to be playing from the halfway line up
hes grand if hes given a free reign . in the league match in castlebar he look like the best player in the country until aidan o se came on to put him back in his box.
Dont think these you donegal biys are near the player the hype suggests both midfilders take off a sure admission of guilt by management
Quote from: rosnarun on June 19, 2017, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 19, 2017, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM
Head red as a berry today but well worth it after watching a masterclass by Mickey.
Atmosphere wasnt great but think that was because it was so one sided after first 10/15mins.
We are not clinical enough when going for goals. If there is a man over then he should get it. End of story. Fix this and we will be in CP in Sep.
Say it quietly but Murphy could be finished.
Was thinking that myself - After about 25 mins in the first half he was hardly fit to move. He can't play as an up and down the pitch midfielder. He needs to be playing from the halfway line up
hes grand if hes given a free reign . in the league match in castlebar he look like the best player in the country until aidan o se came on to put him back in his box.
Dont think these you donegal biys are near the player the hype suggests both midfilders take off a sure admission of guilt by management
If this is true then its further proof that Murphy is done!
In today's modern game, usually the big name players are rarely given any room or time to operate in unlike years ago.
Murphy's goal v Mayo in the 2012 final where he was left one on one would never happen any more and even then we were all shocked Mayo allowed it to happen.
Donegal have often struggled to get the best out of Murphy, just like Mayo do with O'Shea. Sean Cavanagh struggled yesterday as well and only got 1 point from a free though he missed two goals chances.
Murphy is still and awesome player but he needs a manager who can utilise him better. He's doing loads of great work for his team but too often it's back in his own defence or around midfield but I wonder how many actual shots he had yesterday from play.
Murphy looked to be carrying an injury yesterday but one bad game does not mean he's finished!!
Quote from: screenexile on June 19, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
Murphy looked to be carrying an injury yesterday but one bad game does not mean he's finished!!
Absolutely not - his point off a standing position from about 50 yards off the outside of the boot was just sublime. Still very much a class act.
A superb game from Tyrone yesterday. It was a joy to watch them playing and showed some great flashes from the noughties. Still, the Ulster Final is a clean slate again and if we're to have an ambitions to be serious contenders, need to keep this up.
Roll on July's game against Down or Monaghan.
Quote from: screenexile on June 19, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
Murphy looked to be carrying an injury yesterday but one bad game does not mean he's finished!!
Indeed. There's some f**king eejits on this board.
What do they expect of one man in a 30 man game when his team are being completely overwhelmed? Murphy played well for the first 20 minutes or so. Tyrone then hit that purple patch when they took over at midfield and went charging through to score at will. Ten minutes later, the game was over. That middle section of the field was filled with inexperienced, young, light players for Donegal and they couldn't cope. I'm not sure what a single player in Murphy is supposed to do, especially when so much ball is being broken down and gather by the Tyrone men?
One of the few bright spots for Donegal - McBrearty scored four superb long range points from play.
Whatever about Murphy - what about Ryan McHugh? He hardly got a touch yesterday. Is he finished, according to the experts here?
Quote from: WT4E on June 16, 2017, 12:28:19 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 16, 2017, 09:58:53 AM
Who would you change WT4?
Mickey might be thinking bringing on McCarron for 2nd half to mark MM.
McBrearty was well "held" last year so I wonder will he come out the field more this time.
For me I would put in either Lee B. or D McCurry in the corner and matty out to wing forward with possibly mcgeary dropping out (unluckly) - I would really like to see another out and out inside forward in there with Bradley.
Not sure he'll bring McCarron back in but if he did i'm not sure who he would drop out - I would drop McCrory out but Mickey defo wouldn't do that.
Are we convinced about Hampsey yet? He looked ponderous in the game at Celtic Park I thought although didn't do anything wrong but Donegal is a different kettle of fish to Derry who are Div 3 outfit!!!
Well that answers my question! :D
Tyrone looked like All Ireland contenders yesterday - consistency is now the key to it all.
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 11:33:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 19, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
Murphy looked to be carrying an injury yesterday but one bad game does not mean he's finished!!
Indeed. There's some f**king eejits on this board.
thread
We thought Murphy got a heavy knock when he put in a tackle that seemed to take a bit out of him.
I'd take a "finished" Murphy any day.
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM
Head red as a berry today but well worth it after watching a masterclass by Mickey.
Atmosphere wasnt great but think that was because it was so one sided after first 10/15mins.
We are not clinical enough when going for goals. If there is a man over then he should get it. End of story. Fix this and we will be in CP in Sep.
Say it quietly but Murphy could be finished.
Clown, what would you give to see Murphy playing at Full Forward for a sustained period of time. All the players we love essentially are playing their best positions, not Murphy, just imagine
Perhaps I should say he is finished in the role Donegal have played him in. ::)
The days of being a superhero and box to box are gone
Surprised there has been no chat about Karl Lacey's hair! Some job lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
Murphy is not finished but hes not the player The donegal managment think he is. hes a good full forward and an excellent free taker. but not an intercounty midfielder at the highest leverl.
as for Ryan machugh what about Mark or even Eoin ? does this latest batch of Mchughs have a very short shelf lives?
Quote from: rosnarun on June 19, 2017, 03:33:26 PM
Murphy is not finished but hes not the player The donegal managment think he is. hes a good full forward and an excellent free taker. but not an intercounty midfielder at the highest leverl.
as for Ryan machugh what about Mark or even Eoin ? does this latest batch of Mchughs have a very short shelf lives?
Ryan was an all star last year!
Players have bad games. Players lose form. Players get bypassed in matches due to circumstances beyond their control. Players come up against a direct opponent who can nullify their influence in a particular match. Doesn't mean he has a short shelf life at the age of 23.
And Eoin sliced through the Tyrone defence at a point when the game was level and screwed his shot wide. Had he stuck the goal away, possibly affecting how the match would subsequently unfold, would you be asking the above? The lad is only starting his second season of championship football!
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
It was evident from early on that Tyrone were able to get into scoring positions much, much easier and much more quickly.
It'll be interesting in the future to hear what the build-up and preparation for this game from a Donegal perspective involved.
Short term, McGuinness in the Times should be an good read this week!
I don't want to be TOO hard on Gallagher, as this is a team in transition with a lot of inexperience and plainly a ton of work to be done to get us back to the top level, but it is ironic, based on what we've seen over the past three seasons, to think that way back when, there were those who thought that Gallagher was the tactical brains of the partnership.
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
It was evident from early on that Tyrone were able to get into scoring positions much, much easier.
It'll be interesting in the future to hear what the build-up and preparation for this game from a Donegal perspective involved.
Short term, McGuinness in the Times should be an good read this week!
I don't want to be TOO hard on Gallagher, as this is a team in transition with a lot of inexperience and plainly a ton of work to be done to get us back to the top level, but it is ironic, based on what we've seen over the past three seasons, to think that way back when, there were those who thought that Gallagher was the tactical brains of the partnership.
Get out of my head - was just thinking that as well.
He normally treads a fair delicate line on Donegal matters.
The thing is tactics/strategy don't matter a damm if your opponent's players are hungry for the game and your players aren't.
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
It was evident from early on that Tyrone were able to get into scoring positions much, much easier and much more quickly.
It'll be interesting in the future to hear what the build-up and preparation for this game from a Donegal perspective involved.
Short term, McGuinness in the Times should be an good read this week!
I don't want to be TOO hard on Gallagher, as this is a team in transition with a lot of inexperience and plainly a ton of work to be done to get us back to the top level, but it is ironic, based on what we've seen over the past three seasons, to think that way back when, there were those who thought that Gallagher was the tactical brains of the partnership.
I think McGuinness will be secretly delighted with this result as he has made no bones about his falling out with Gallagher in the past.
However I think Gallagher's biggest problem was that he over achieved with this team in the league. They aren't as bad as they looked yesterday but they are well short of where they were 3-4 years ago. It was a horrible style of football that McGuinness inflicted on gaelic football that is still pervading the game at all levels and age groups today, however you can't deny that he was a visionary with a serious set of balls to carry the plan through to a successful conclusion despite all of the negative headlines it brought. He was the ultra pragmatist whereas I think Gallagher is a bit more concerned with how others perceive his football philosophy to be.
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
It was evident from early on that Tyrone were able to get into scoring positions much, much easier.
It'll be interesting in the future to hear what the build-up and preparation for this game from a Donegal perspective involved.
Short term, McGuinness in the Times should be an good read this week!
I don't want to be TOO hard on Gallagher, as this is a team in transition with a lot of inexperience and plainly a ton of work to be done to get us back to the top level, but it is ironic, based on what we've seen over the past three seasons, to think that way back when, there were those who thought that Gallagher was the tactical brains of the partnership.
Get out of my head - was just thinking that as well.
He normally treads a fair delicate line on Donegal matters.
The thing is tactics/strategy don't matter a damm if your opponent's players are hungry for the game and your players aren't.
That's what Rory Gallagher seemed to claim anyway.
If so, it begs the question just what did they think they were walking into and how prepared were they? Was there complacency after the Antrim game? These meetings with Tyrone have been ferocious affairs even when Donegal were in the ascendency. I don't think hunger and effort was ever an issue for Tyrone against us when they were on the wane and then in transition (wasn't much chance of an all-in mill yesterday when apart from those couple of neck grabs late on there was barely a glove laid on anyone!). It should be a severe wake-up call to any player that thinks being good enough for your county team and strong and courageous enough to win things at county level are the same thing.
I couldn't believe the space Donegal left between their HB line and FB line. Reminded me a bit of the 2014 Dublin v Donegal game when Donegal exploited that space with the long kick out and moving extremely fast into that space.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 19, 2017, 04:01:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNM6jxqSxQ
Match on YouTube
Compare and contrast Tyrone's defending and tackling in the first 10/12 minutes compared to Donegal's
Note the difference in terms of putting pressure on the player shooting - even when a Donegal player did get space to get their shot off, Tyrone still had players diving in to try and make the block/distract the kicker. When you compare it to the pressure that Donegal were putting on the Tyrone players shooting, it was world's apart.
This wasn't when the game had gone away from them later on - this was from the get-go from Donegal. Woeful stuff.
It was evident from early on that Tyrone were able to get into scoring positions much, much easier and much more quickly.
It'll be interesting in the future to hear what the build-up and preparation for this game from a Donegal perspective involved.
Short term, McGuinness in the Times should be an good read this week!
I don't want to be TOO hard on Gallagher, as this is a team in transition with a lot of inexperience and plainly a ton of work to be done to get us back to the top level, but it is ironic, based on what we've seen over the past three seasons, to think that way back when, there were those who thought that Gallagher was the tactical brains of the partnership.
I think McGuinness will be secretly delighted with this result as he has made no bones about his falling out with Gallagher in the past.
However I think Gallagher's biggest problem was that he over achieved with this team in the league. They aren't as bad as they looked yesterday but they are well short of where they were 3-4 years ago. It was a horrible style of football that McGuinness inflicted on gaelic football that is still pervading the game at all levels and age groups today, however you can't deny that he was a visionary with a serious set of balls to carry the plan through to a successful conclusion despite all of the negative headlines it brought. He was the ultra pragmatist whereas I think Gallagher is a bit more concerned with how others perceive his football philosophy to be.
Maybe we need to be a bit more patient in that respect, as most of us would be happy enough to see more adventurous football, but there didn't seem to be any kind of plan yesterday. Loose, non-existent defending. Channeling everything through the middle of the pitch in the Tyrone half, a tactic which failed utterly against them last year. No kick-out strategy beyond hit-and-hope once Tyrone pushed up on the backs.
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 04:03:28 PM
That's what Rory Gallagher seemed to claim anyway.
If so, it begs the question just what did they think they were walking into and how prepared were they? Was there complacency after the Antrim game? These meetings with Tyrone have been ferocious affairs even when Donegal were in the ascendency. I don't think hunger and effort was ever an issue for Tyrone against us when they were on the wane and then in transition (wasn't much chance of an all-in mill yesterday when apart from those couple of neck grabs late on there was barely a glove laid on anyone!). It should be a severe wake-up call to any player that thinks being good enough for your county team and strong and courageous enough to win things at county level are the same thing.
Crazy if he thinks this absolves him of blame - it's not just tactics that are a manager's responsibility.
As someone said the big issue was how well Donegal done in the league.
This raised all expectations and left us almost coming in a bit under the radar.
Surely Donegal cant be as flat again
Nothing much to add to what has already been said, a poor performance against a super Tyrone outfit & I'd say a lot of lessons will be learned.
For a young team to be out muscled in the way Donegal were is not that surprising. What was disappointing was the lack of intensity & the lack of leadership from big name players. To lose is one thing, to lose without putting up a fight is worrying.
Even tho we were missing from the final for a few years we were seriously competitive during that time, which is a good state of affairs considering the "transition" It took big performances for Donegal o beat us and it feels like we have come out the other side of it now.
Since 2011 have Donegal Tyrone or Monaghan beaten the other two in one year, I dont think they have?
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 19, 2017, 09:18:23 PM
Even tho we were missing from the final for a few years we were seriously competitive during that time, which is a good state of affairs considering the "transition" It took big performances for Donegal o beat us and it feels like we have come out the other side of it now.
Since 2011 have Donegal Tyrone or Monaghan beaten the other two in one year, I dont think they have?
Tyrone beat both in 2007, the last time one of the three beat the other two per a wikipedia review.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 19, 2017, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: ned on June 19, 2017, 08:20:22 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 18, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
McGinley pulled off some great scores but it drives me mad when a player shoots high in a one on one position. Cavanagh and Brennan should have slid their attempts along the ground. If we can start burying a higher percentage of our goal chances then I think we really have a genuine chance at an AI.
Annoys me when a commentator makes a standard save into an act of phyics defiance.
You can almost hear the commentators brain kicking into reverse when he sees the replay! But nah, I'll just keep with my original wrong analysis.
On the shooting, Monaghan's McManus is brilliant in those one on one situations. Always seems to go low.
Completely agree regarding McManus, always keeps it low making it almost impossible to save. Ironically, I think that's what Tiernan was attempting as well, only he slightly ballsed it up! Still went in though!
What are you on about? He saw the advancing keeper going to ground so he decided to ricohet it of the ground and over him. A complete mastersroke by Tiernan, if Messi had done it, it would be produced as evidence of the second coming
It was great to see the smugness wiped of Martin mc Hugh s face on Sunday. The kids were great in february alright......whats that saying, " leagues for playing in ....championships for winning "
Different gravy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00d0c9j
Game's now available on iPlayer.
Fed up hearing all the excuses about this being such a young Donegal team. Tyrones team is littered with young players, yet before the game it was apparently the youth of Donegal that was going to win. This was all a result of lazy journalism, reading far too much into a league where teams have done well in previous years due to ramping up their training earlier and simply being further down the road of the other teams in the Spring.
I don't think it's the fact they are so young but that for a lot of them it was their first real serious Ulster championship match whereas only Tyrone's Mulgrew was in the same boat.
Jim has his say and as expected he tries to be sensitive towards his old management colleague but it was always going to be tough. Gallagher probably wants to move away from their old style but he got badly burnt on Sunday, not just from the sun.
Jim McGuinness: Lack of defensive intensity proved Donegal's downfall from Irish Times
With some tweaking, Rory Gallagher's side are good enough to bounce back from defeat
If you are a Donegal or Meath supporter, then yesterday was a blue Monday, regardless of the beautiful weather.
Supporters are left feeling terribly helpless whenever they see their team take a heavy beating on a hot summer's day or evening. Both Kildare-Meath and Donegal-Tyrone are big rivalries, too, with a lot of history and shared experience and that creates within the occasion an almost desperate sense to prove themselves to one another – as teams, as supporters, as counties.
I feel that was particularly true in Clones on Sunday. Tyrone and Donegal have been engaged in a fairly primal battle for supremacy for the past six years and I would think they both felt this was a game that could not be lost.
That pressure weighed more heavily on Donegal because of how the Ulster final finished last year. It was a bleak day for all Donegal supporters. It was remarked afterwards that the young players struggled. And that was true. But so did a lot of the more senior players. The guys who are integral to the team struggled out there as well. That needs to be pointed out.
For me, the bigger picture in terms of what happened hasn't changed from last year. In terms of any analysis I might do on the game, you could just provide a link to last year's column here after the Ulster final. The scoreline was different but the approach was just the same.
Did Tyrone bring anything new on Sunday? I would say hand on heart: no. Had they bodies back? Yes. Did they have intensity in defence? Yes. Was their structure and processes of the highest order? Yes.
Now, they had more energy and freedom and committed to their transition to attack really well. Once they got the turnover they looked to run the pitch width -wide and looked for that dink ball in. They also looked to switch the play with the diagonal ball and what they brought to the table was precisely what you would expect. But we knew all that about Tyrone.
I suppose a bigger question is where Donegal are right now. I went to bed on Sunday night with the game on my mind and was thinking about it first thing on Monday morning. It felt like being back in the Noughties when Tyrone just owned the pitch and Clones was eerily quiet long before the end of the game.
I am conscious of how this may be interpreted: as the former Donegal manager criticising the current Donegal manager. It's not about that. I am a Donegal supporter now. And I know we are better than that.
A trap
And I saw all the good work that Rory did with the team over the winter. I feel like Donegal fell into a trap on Sunday and the game became a nightmare for them. I don't feel that this means Tyrone are necessarily out of sight for Donegal now for a few years. In fact, I believe Donegal could beat Tyrone later this summer – if they go back to the principles that they were working on during the league.
Maybe I am not living in reality. Maybe I am wedded to 2011-14 when I watch Donegal. Maybe I am asking myself: why are they not doing this or that without knowing the actuality of what is going on at training or the players available etc? And maybe I need to move on in my thinking. I accept all of that may be true.
But I genuinely find that difficult to do because a lot of the things Donegal are trying to do are based on the principles present during the time Rory and I stood on the sideline. That is not me being critical; it is me trying to figure out, from the outside, what Donegal are doing. And it hits you hard when you are seven down at half-time and then it is ten points and you have that old feeling of queasiness and dread. But if Donegal can erase this defeat and focus on the principles of the league, I feel they can get back on track.
What gave Donegal hope for this summer was that the management team introduced a lot of young legs in the team. The Donegal system requires energy and intensity and throughout the national league, the word being tossed about quite a lot was 'pace'.
Of course, what you lost were guys with big stature and power. And they were replaced with young guys who are light and full of pace. Some of the problems from last summer were addressed in the league. There was pace in the attack and players were getting ahead of the ball again and attacking. So it seemed like the Donegal game plan was evolving into what is required if you want to play that brand of football at the elite level.
But Sunday's game was a carbon copy of last year's Ulster final except the Donegal energy and intensity wasn't there. Both Tyrone and Donegal play an extreme brand of football. There are trade-offs. With 14 men back, you leave yourself very hard to beat and there will be a lot of turnovers. But if you are not getting those turnovers, you have a problem.
If you look at Kildare-Meath, there was a similar dynamic at play. Meath were notionally playing a sweeper. He was trying to get back when the ball was travelling towards the Kildare inside line. That is not a sweeper. That is a guy trying to get back to help in the secondary phase of defence.
Think of Mark McHugh with Donegal in 2011 and 2012. His job was to set up in front of the opposition marksman and anticipate. The game was in front of him. The Meath player couldn't do that because he was waiting to see where the ball was going. Even though the concept is similar, the actuality is miles apart.
Trade-off
So if you go back to Donegal, the trade-off of having so many men back has to be intensity. You have to push out, make sure the opposition works for each possession and once they take the ball in, you challenge to dispossess. That is what Kildare were doing. As soon Meath came in, half backs and midfielders fell back and there were 10 players designated to defend the D. And then they had four players up as outlet players. It meant they retained an offensive structure.
Those four guys had to be marked. But all of this is only possible if you are intensive and aggressive defensively. Kildare turned the ball far more often than Donegal – with fewer players back. And not only that, once they forced the turnover, they could kick it. Donegal only had Patrick McBrearty up front as an outlet.
So what were the key levels of performance on Sunday? The levels defensively were that Meath could not get back quickly enough. They lacked defensive shape. Donegal had incredible defensive shape but no intensity. Like, Donegal were actually incredibly well set up to defend. That should be acknowledged. They had two or three guys man-marking and the others covering space and then a line along the 45. But that should have been the start position. That should have been their platform to hassle and hound Tyrone.
Instead, Tyrone took a leaf from Dublin's book and just played the ball between the 20 metres of unmanned space in front of the Donegal defensive 45. They used that area to suck Donegal out and then inject pace at the right time to create raids inside the Donegal cover. I think this is significant. I feel there is a tactic missing from Gaelic football right now that could solve a lot of problems for teams playing against Tyrone, Kerry and Dublin.
That area of the field has been identified as the neutral zone for teams facing a defensive structure. For instance, Tyrone's decision-makers could survey their options at their leisure knowing that Donegal's defence was laid out in front of them. They move the ball in complete control and composure and what that says to the opposition is: we are controlling the terms here. If you want the ball, come out and get it. And when you make the move, we will find the space and hurt you.
Now, what if Donegal said: we will defend with 10 players. But see the other four? We will play them on the defensive 65. That way, teams can set a trap or close the net, rather, so once the opposition hits that offensive 45 they must either go through or deal with the pressure coming from behind. I think that can be used against Dublin and Tyrone to force them psychologically out of their comfort zone.
Defensive intensity
Donegal used to have a game plan based on defensive intensity. I feel Rory's system is not predicated on that. My feeling is that his thinking is: we don't need to be that intense; by having more numbers back, we will always be close to the opposition. And they were. But the problem was that they didn't lay a hand on them.
At the other end of the field, Donegal continued to run the ball and always supporting it from behind, resulting in the attack stagnating along the Tyrone 45. So again, by reverting to that Ulster final 2016 game plan, none of their good league work was able to come to fruition.
I just feel this approach is too extreme and therefore doesn't work. And it became our only option on Sunday. That is the big dilemma here. Why build a way to attack all through league and then on the biggest day, when the pressure is most intense, did we revert to that style? I don't know the answer to this, any more than any other Donegal supporter.
But I do believe Donegal can fix this. They are young. The reason I say that is that the signs were there in the national league. The positive aspects to their play going forward are still within the group. They are still viable options for the team. But if they are going to bring that many bodies back, they need to defend like a pack of wolves.
It was demoralising to see Tyrone players just dropping the shoulder and saunter into the heart of our defence. And I feel that pressing out and squeezing from behind could change that. Take away that luxury of Tyrone making their decisions in their own time. You can see how comfortable they were on Sunday at keeping it, keeping it, waiting and a wee fist past and then a sharp incision and a shot at goal.
Those young Donegal lads understood that they couldn't get the ball off Tyrone. And that is hard. So it was a demoralising defeat. It was a tough one to take and there is a psychological thing there also. Donegal have to come together now and acknowledge that everyone is going to write them off.
Before the game it was a toss of a coin as to who would win. They need to remember that. They also need to identify their strengths and go with those and get to the bottom of why they were so inhibited last year in the Ulster final and why that was replicated in Sunday's match.
For me, this is critical. Get to the bottom of that and they can start to move forward again.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 20, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Fed up hearing all the excuses about this being such a young Donegal team. Tyrones team is littered with young players, yet before the game it was apparently the youth of Donegal that was going to win. This was all a result of lazy journalism, reading far too much into a league where teams have done well in previous years due to ramping up their training earlier and simply being further down the road of the other teams in the Spring.
Talk about lazy thinking!
The issue was that so many of them had never played in a serious senior championship game. Mulligan, Brennan, Thompson, Doherty, McGee, Carroll, Langan... all first time in such a game. Eoin McHugh played last year. Ciaran Gillespie played a couple of matches last year.
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2017, 02:22:12 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 20, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Fed up hearing all the excuses about this being such a young Donegal team. Tyrones team is littered with young players, yet before the game it was apparently the youth of Donegal that was going to win. This was all a result of lazy journalism, reading far too much into a league where teams have done well in previous years due to ramping up their training earlier and simply being further down the road of the other teams in the Spring.
Talk about lazy thinking!
The issue was that so many of them had never played in a serious senior championship game. Mulligan, Brennan, Thompson, Doherty, McGee, Carroll, Langan... all first time in such a game. Eoin McHugh played last year. Ciaran Gillespie played a couple of matches last year.
Only got a chance to watch the game last night. Martin McHugh wasn't happy with Jason McGee coming off before the break. I thought it a bit strange myself. Granted he wasn't having a stormer but a man his size is always useful to catch/break ball. What's your thoughts here, J70?
I wouldn't know the exact numbers and ages but looking at both teams it looks like Donegal had a lot more players aged 23 and under and would imagine 7 of that Donegal team that started would have less than 5 championship appearance to their name.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 20, 2017, 02:54:56 PM
I wouldn't know the exact numbers and ages but looking at both teams it looks like Donegal had a lot more players aged 23 and under and would imagine 7 of that Donegal team that started would have less than 5 championship appearance to their name.
I paused the video where they named the teams and they had the players ages, and we (Tyrone) had an average age of 26.07 starting the game yesterday compared to Donegal's 23.93 so just over two years older per man on average.
That 26 year average has to be near perfect and what you'd want. We seem now to have a great mix of older experienced players with McCarren and Sean Cavanagh in their 30's and Colm Cavanagh 29 and then a lot of these young lads from Mulgrew at 19 right through.
Exciting panel this year but with Sean packing it in after this summer we really need to get as much out of his experience as we can this summer.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 20, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Fed up hearing all the excuses about this being such a young Donegal team. Tyrones team is littered with young players, yet before the game it was apparently the youth of Donegal that was going to win. This was all a result of lazy journalism, reading far too much into a league where teams have done well in previous years due to ramping up their training earlier and simply being further down the road of the other teams in the Spring.
To be fair there were 7 or 8 Donegal players who never started a game of that magnitude and it showed.
I think if there's one criticism that should be pointed at Rory Gallagher, it would be that some of these lads should have been integrated a lot quicker. A run in the qualifiers might do them the world of good.
Why did McGlynn go off Sunday? Injury? He's been a huge player for Donegal over the years but like Lacey he looks like he's at the end of the road.
Quote from: Jayop on June 20, 2017, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 20, 2017, 02:54:56 PM
I wouldn't know the exact numbers and ages but looking at both teams it looks like Donegal had a lot more players aged 23 and under and would imagine 7 of that Donegal team that started would have less than 5 championship appearance to their name.
I paused the video where they named the teams and they had the players ages, and we (Tyrone) had an average age of 26.07 starting the game yesterday compared to Donegal's 23.93 so just over two years older per man on average.
That 26 year average has to be near perfect and what you'd want. We seem now to have a great mix of older experienced players with McCarren and Sean Cavanagh in their 30's and Colm Cavanagh 29 and then a lot of these young lads from Mulgrew at 19 right through.
Exciting panel this year but with Sean packing it in after this summer we really need to get as much out of his experience as we can this summer.
Sean Cavanagh played okay on Sunday but I thought some of his decision making was poor, especially the goal chance in first half where his shot was straight at the keeper. Should have passed. Seemed to hold onto the ball too long at times when getting the pass away quickly seemed to be the easier and better option. Is he trying to hard if this is his last season?
I thought the same Ned, that whilst he did quite well out around the middle and set up Brennan for his goal chance, I thought he was far too slow releasing the ball at times and if the roles were reversed for his big goal chance then Sludden would have drawn the defender and released the ball to Sean who would be screaming for it.
Another time he was running into men on the 40 and whilst he kept possession he kicked a silly short pass no where near its target instead of a simple quick handpass outside him much earlier in the move.
Just bad decision making I think and probably thinks he needs to stand up and take these chances rather than looking around him.
Still, I think he's a handy man to have out around the MF where he can make a good mark from time to time and run from deep
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 20, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Fed up hearing all the excuses about this being such a young Donegal team. Tyrones team is littered with young players, yet before the game it was apparently the youth of Donegal that was going to win. This was all a result of lazy journalism, reading far too much into a league where teams have done well in previous years due to ramping up their training earlier and simply being further down the road of the other teams in the Spring.
Seems like the majority got carried away with their league form, as you say they were just ahead of everyone else in terms of training like Roscommon last year.
To be fair its a very young inexperienced Donegal team and unless some of those who opted out return next year its hard to make a case for them staying as one of the top teams.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I thought the same Ned, that whilst he did quite well out around the middle and set up Brennan for his goal chance, I thought he was far too slow releasing the ball at times and if the roles were reversed for his big goal chance then Sludden would have drawn the defender and released the ball to Sean who would be screaming for it.
Another time he was running into men on the 40 and whilst he kept possession he kicked a silly short pass no where near its target instead of a simple quick handpass outside him much earlier in the move.
Just bad decision making I think and probably thinks he needs to stand up and take these chances rather than looking around him.
Still, I think he's a handy man to have out around the MF where he can make a good mark from time to time and run from deep
Cavanagh, although not at his absolute best on Sunday, still is vital to this team. I believe that some teams think he is a bigger threat than he actually is these days and that will be crucial later in the championship as teams will use their best man marker on him or form a plan to stop him. I couldn't believe Mayo sacrificed Lee Keegan last year, Sean should have stood in full forward and not budged, completely neutralising Keegan's influence, but unforuntately Sean moved out the pitch and ultimately let Keegan dominate and wind him up.
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I thought the same Ned, that whilst he did quite well out around the middle and set up Brennan for his goal chance, I thought he was far too slow releasing the ball at times and if the roles were reversed for his big goal chance then Sludden would have drawn the defender and released the ball to Sean who would be screaming for it.
Another time he was running into men on the 40 and whilst he kept possession he kicked a silly short pass no where near its target instead of a simple quick handpass outside him much earlier in the move.
Just bad decision making I think and probably thinks he needs to stand up and take these chances rather than looking around him.
Still, I think he's a handy man to have out around the MF where he can make a good mark from time to time and run from deep
Cavanagh, although not at his absolute best on Sunday, still is vital to this team. I believe that some teams think he is a bigger threat than he actually is these days and that will be crucial later in the championship as teams will use their best man marker on him or form a plan to stop him. I couldn't believe Mayo sacrificed Lee Keegan last year, Sean should have stood in full forward and not budged, completely neutralising Keegan's influence, but unforuntately Sean moved out the pitch and ultimately let Keegan dominate and wind him up.
He isnt the first for that to happen to him
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I thought the same Ned, that whilst he did quite well out around the middle and set up Brennan for his goal chance, I thought he was far too slow releasing the ball at times and if the roles were reversed for his big goal chance then Sludden would have drawn the defender and released the ball to Sean who would be screaming for it.
Another time he was running into men on the 40 and whilst he kept possession he kicked a silly short pass no where near its target instead of a simple quick handpass outside him much earlier in the move.
Just bad decision making I think and probably thinks he needs to stand up and take these chances rather than looking around him.
Still, I think he's a handy man to have out around the MF where he can make a good mark from time to time and run from deep
Cavanagh, although not at his absolute best on Sunday, still is vital to this team. I believe that some teams think he is a bigger threat than he actually is these days and that will be crucial later in the championship as teams will use their best man marker on him or form a plan to stop him. I couldn't believe Mayo sacrificed Lee Keegan last year, Sean should have stood in full forward and not budged, completely neutralising Keegan's influence, but unforuntately Sean moved out the pitch and ultimately let Keegan dominate and wind him up.
From memory Keegan did very little in the game until Cavanagh got sent off and he had a bit of freedom to attack. Cavanagh was a bit wasteful on Sunday but still well involved and well worth his place on the team. If we are going to push up on kickouts it's important he's out there helping Colm, Mattie and whoever has is in midfield.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 21, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I thought the same Ned, that whilst he did quite well out around the middle and set up Brennan for his goal chance, I thought he was far too slow releasing the ball at times and if the roles were reversed for his big goal chance then Sludden would have drawn the defender and released the ball to Sean who would be screaming for it.
Another time he was running into men on the 40 and whilst he kept possession he kicked a silly short pass no where near its target instead of a simple quick handpass outside him much earlier in the move.
Just bad decision making I think and probably thinks he needs to stand up and take these chances rather than looking around him.
Still, I think he's a handy man to have out around the MF where he can make a good mark from time to time and run from deep
Cavanagh, although not at his absolute best on Sunday, still is vital to this team. I believe that some teams think he is a bigger threat than he actually is these days and that will be crucial later in the championship as teams will use their best man marker on him or form a plan to stop him. I couldn't believe Mayo sacrificed Lee Keegan last year, Sean should have stood in full forward and not budged, completely neutralising Keegan's influence, but unforuntately Sean moved out the pitch and ultimately let Keegan dominate and wind him up.
From memory Keegan did very little in the game until Cavanagh got sent off and he had a bit of freedom to attack. Cavanagh was a bit wasteful on Sunday but still well involved and well worth his place on the team. If we are going to push up on kickouts it's important he's out there helping Colm, Mattie and whoever has is in midfield.
I suppose Cavanagh has set a high standard previously and in no way did he have a bad game. Just an observation but he definitely is vital for Tyrone still.
Maybe it's because it's his last year or maybe because he's been such an amazing player for us in the past but many people are slow to criticise Sean in any way for fear of rocking the boat or being judged.
When discussing a player and what he did well and when he made mistakes I often ask myself what if it was another player.
For example the goal chance he missed, he showed great pace to burst through and he was straight up the middle so you would usually expect Sean to put that away, but I just noticed lately that he's not as clinical as he used to be and he hit it straight at the keeper.
If the game was in the balance and it was Ronan O'Neill running through and he didn't pass to Sludden we would be giving him a lot harder time but because it's Sean we are a lot more tolerant.
All I'm saying is maybe it's the miles on the clock or the mental attitude that this is his last year but I just think in the last year or so he often runs into traffic and loses possession like he did against Dublin in the league for their equalising score I think it was. If he would just release the ball a lot faster and maybe go for the return it would benefit us as a team as we have huge pace when breaking forward.
Sean still the man and should be staying beyond this year with Mickey.
Sean is a born leader - is probably the most consistent player in Ireland over last 10 years.
Fuzzman I like you're style. You and the bomber wouldn't look out of place along the side line with Micky.
He had a poor enough game but he's got more than enough credit in the bank to be allowed the odd one. He was excellent against Derry. He's also in there now for free taking and that wasn't shown on Sunday because we only got two scoring frees all game iirc.
Taylor & Skeog why did you think it was necessary to say he is still the man (Though Brolly might disagree) and he's a natural born leader.
Sure that goes without saying. No doubt I'd be delighted if he stayed on another few years as like someone said he usually is marked by the other teams best defender which leaves space for others.
McGee was taken out the field away from the square on Sunday where Bradley had a lot more space to make runs into.
I think we must look at each match as it comes and give praise where it's due and criticism also where it's due.
Had Brennan stuck that goal chance into the top corner I'd have been saying that Sean did great to set him up for an amazing goal. I hope Mickey when he does his match reviews points out to Sean (like others) that he overheld it here and there and shows him how to improve. Just because you're in your last year and you've been player of the year doesn't mean you are no longer able to take advice and criticism.
I'd be interested to hear from non Tyrone posters how they thought Tyrone played on Sunday. Why do they think it was such an improved attacking performance? Was it just Donegal were poor in the tackle and allowed Tyrone more space or was it Tyrone more direct kicking style, maybe from the kick outs?
Players obviously look up to him
Mickey rates him very highly
He attracts the best man marker on other team
Tyrone are still overrated in my opinion. Great win v Donegal but they won't play as well again, or be allowed to. They'll be found out later on.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Tyrone are still overrated in my opinion. Great win v Donegal but they won't play as well again, or be allowed to. They'll be found out later on.
How / where are Tyrone rated? I think most sensible analysis has them in a small chasing pack behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Do you think they should be rated lower than this? Below Kildare, Galway and Monaghan?
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Tyrone are still overrated in my opinion. Great win v Donegal but they won't play as well again, or be allowed to. They'll be found out later on.
How / where are Tyrone rated? I think most sensible analysis has them in a small chasing pack behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Do you think they should be rated lower than this? Below Kildare, Galway and Monaghan?
They were talked as the main rivals to Dublin for the AI last year before the c'ship. I actually think they believed that themselves and got caught out by Mayo. Now they're second favourite for Sam after one good performance? I said last year they'd be nowhere near Sam, and while they might get as far as an AI semi, they'll be nowhere near good enough again.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Tyrone are still overrated in my opinion. Great win v Donegal but they won't play as well again, or be allowed to. They'll be found out later on.
How / where are Tyrone rated? I think most sensible analysis has them in a small chasing pack behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Do you think they should be rated lower than this? Below Kildare, Galway and Monaghan?
They were talked as the main rivals to Dublin for the AI last year before the c'ship. I actually think they believed that themselves and got caught out by Mayo. Now they're second favourite for Sam after one good performance? I said last year they'd be nowhere near Sam, and while they might get as far as an AI semi, they'll be nowhere near good enough again.
Pains me to say it but they look very good at the moment. I think they have a chance
But BennyCake is overrated not exactly what you want? Talk them up as much as you can so they come crashing back down again with a bang like last year. I'd say you were delighted for Mayo to burst the red hand bubble.
At least Tonto can say they played well on Sunday and admits they look like contenders again but I think most of know that they've not managed to beat Mayo, Kerry or Dublin in Croker for a long long time now.
To me contenders mean top 4 who on their day with a big performance could win it.
Last year we could have had a decent enough run to the AI final having met Derry, Cavan, Donegal, Mayo and Tipperary had we beaten Mayo. A lot of ABDs would have loved to see that final.
This year it will could be a lot tougher with Derry, Donegal, possibly Monaghan, Kildare/Cork, Dublin and Kerry
We've scored 44 times already in two matches from 17 different player so far. Not bad for a team meant to be so defensive.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 21, 2017, 03:09:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 21, 2017, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Tyrone are still overrated in my opinion. Great win v Donegal but they won't play as well again, or be allowed to. They'll be found out later on.
How / where are Tyrone rated? I think most sensible analysis has them in a small chasing pack behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Do you think they should be rated lower than this? Below Kildare, Galway and Monaghan?
They were talked as the main rivals to Dublin for the AI last year before the c'ship. I actually think they believed that themselves and got caught out by Mayo. Now they're second favourite for Sam after one good performance? I said last year they'd be nowhere near Sam, and while they might get as far as an AI semi, they'll be nowhere near good enough again.
Pains me to say it but they look very good at the moment. I think they have a chance
They're 3rd favourite for Sam - the current odds are as follows
Dublin 13/8
Kerry 5/2
Tyrone 11/2
Mayo 12/1
Galway 14/1
Monaghan 25/1
Kildare 28/1
Donegal 33/1
Cork 33/1
It's worth remembering that the number of games to play can make a big difference Mayo and Donegal for example have to win at least 6 games to win Sam, whereas if Kerry beat Cork/Tyrone beat Monaghan in their provincial finals, they would only have to win 3 more games to win Sam.
On Tyrone, to me they don't look to be in all that different a place to where they were last year.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 03:27:41 PM
But BennyCake is overrated not exactly what you want? Talk them up as much as you can so they come crashing back down again with a bang like last year. I'd say you were delighted for Mayo to burst the red hand bubble.
At least Tonto can say they played well on Sunday and admits they look like contenders again but I think most of know that they've not managed to beat Mayo, Kerry or Dublin in Croker for a long long time now.
To me contenders mean top 4 who on their day with a big performance could win it.
Last year we could have had a decent enough run to the AI final having met Derry, Cavan, Donegal, Mayo and Tipperary had we beaten Mayo. A lot of ABDs would have loved to see that final.
This year it will could be a lot tougher with Derry, Donegal, possibly Monaghan, Kildare/Cork, Dublin and Kerry
We've scored 44 times already in two matches from 17 different player so far. Not bad for a team meant to be so defensive.
Derry and Donegal were both very poor in their defensive efforts. Tyrone did a good/great job of taking advantage but from here on out the defenses they face are going to be far tougher.
For me the key scoring stat out of the two games would be 1 goal scored in two games where the team was well on top and the opponents did not defend well.
A few things that impressed me about Tyrone on Sunday.
1 The discipline in the tackle. No big clumsy agriculture challenges, waited patiently for opponent to show the ball and made clean contact with the interception.
2 Decision making. Thought that the players made fantastic choices with their passing when under pressure. Nearly always took the right option. Very unselfish, very fluent and easy on the eye. Extremly hard to defend against for the opposition.
3 Point scoring. Although the reward is only one point for scoring 45 meters out on the wing. It is a much more difficult task than scoring a goal from 10 yards out with only the keeper to beat. The high point ratio over 40 in two championship games shows how ruthless Tyrone are. It shows more play when you get 3 points as opposed to 1 goal.
4 The amount of players that got on the score sheet I think it was 10 which shows an all round well balanced team effort. It also shows their not reliant on certain forwards to do their their bidding. The good weather helped enormously with that. Thats why I believe Tyrone always excel in Croke ParK. Usually because its towards the better part of the year and its more sheltered.
5 The cohesiveness of play. Tyrone were hard to predict what they were going to do next.
6 Ball control. The confidence each player displayed on the ball. No panic even when under pressure. Almost like they were coached by Brian McGuigan.
7 Fitness and energy levels. Thought the players looked very strong and extremely fast.
8 Peter Hartes point. Two outrageous dummies before firing over the bar.
9 Subs. Despite clearing the bench I thought they showed for a lot for the ball.
10 Still no word of Lee Brennan maybe he's being kept for later on in the year.
Thats just somethings i can think of, off the cuff. I worry that a lot of the big teams will try using horse play on Tyrone later on in the championship. Example that carry on with Sean Cavanagh last year agin Mayo.
Good analysis though I was also glad to see long kickouts and footpasses being sprayed... the other stuff, short kickouts and constant handpassing along the line was awful
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 21, 2017, 03:27:41 PM
But BennyCake is overrated not exactly what you want? Talk them up as much as you can so they come crashing back down again with a bang like last year. I'd say you were delighted for Mayo to burst the red hand bubble.
At least Tonto can say they played well on Sunday and admits they look like contenders again but I think most of know that they've not managed to beat Mayo, Kerry or Dublin in Croker for a long long time now.
To me contenders mean top 4 who on their day with a big performance could win it.
Last year we could have had a decent enough run to the AI final having met Derry, Cavan, Donegal, Mayo and Tipperary had we beaten Mayo. A lot of ABDs would have loved to see that final.
This year it will could be a lot tougher with Derry, Donegal, possibly Monaghan, Kildare/Cork, Dublin and Kerry
We've scored 44 times already in two matches from 17 different player so far. Not bad for a team meant to be so defensive.
I call it as I see it. I've no time for building anyone up. Strangely I wasn't delighted Mayo won. I did actually think Mayo would beat them and was proved right.
I did recognise Tyrone played well, and had a great win v Donegal. But I can't concur regarding being AI contenders, because I don't think they are.
Top 4 talk is meaningless. Are Tipp top 4, because they were in the semis? Will Westmeath be top 4 if they beatDublin? Being a top 4 side is no consolation for Mayo in recent years.
As they say what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. The defeat to Kerry in the all Ireland semi final two years ago and the loss to Mayo last year must have sickened this Tyrone team. Games they could have won but lost. The fans media etc might get a little animated with the performances so far in the championship but you can be guaranteed the management and players will be pretty grounded. A telling point was in Mickys interview after the game where he talked more so about things they could have improved on as opposed to the the performance they just put in.
If Tyrone can keep their players moving like they did on Sunday past rather than getting bogged down in a war of attrition they have the right tools at their disposal to make a great impression on this years championship.
Some stats from the weekend were very impressive, for example, 1-19 of Tyrone's scores came from play. However, Declan Bogue on the We are ulster podcast just quoted a stat that Tyrone only gave away 8 free kicks during the whole game, including technical frees like overcarrying. That is a phenomenally disciplined performance.
Very impressive indeed, especially with Murphy do deadly from frees but coming away from the match I was wondering did Donegal sacrifice tackling with a bit more intensity in order not to give away many frees though I thought the ref did let a lot go to be fair which other days would be frees.
I would not be surprised if Longford beat Donegal though, Ulster football is not where it used to be.
I would be very surprised. Donegal don't become a bad team overnight and almost qualified for the league final.
They drew with Dublin and hammered Tyrone in the league and they have a very impressive record in Ballybofey.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 06:42:24 PM
I would not be surprised if Longford beat Donegal though, Ulster football is not where it used to be.
I would be very surprised if Longford beat Donegal.
On Cavanagh, I don't think he gets much of a free pass if he underperforms.
Wasn't his greatest game on Saturday as he took a lot of wrong choices and such but you're not really going to be focusing on the negatives when you put in a performance like Tyrone did on Sunday. He still looks in tremendous shape for a lad who is now 34 and the mistakes he made were very unlike Cavanagh. He's still a very important player for us.
Yeah but I haven't seen a team as wide open down the middle since the Jason Ryan era. Hard to read anyhting into a match when one team are set up so badly and their heads drop. Tyrone are obviously a good team and will not be far away from competing in September but there is too much being read into this game.
Roscommon had a great league campaign in 2016 and look where they ended up.
I also felt sad seeing one of the great players of this century in Karl Lacey struggle so badly with his legs gone but then again it also looks like he had a hair transplant and I enjoy the suffering of men that vain.
Monaghan should provide a better guage of where Tyrone are at.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 21, 2017, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 06:42:24 PM
I would not be surprised if Longford beat Donegal though, Ulster football is not where it used to be.
I would be very surprised if Longford beat Donegal.
They beat a better Monaghan team last year, lightning doesn't always strike twice but don't be shocked if it does.
longford won't get within 8 points of donegal
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 21, 2017, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 06:42:24 PM
I would not be surprised if Longford beat Donegal though, Ulster football is not where it used to be.
I would be very surprised if Longford beat Donegal.
They beat a better Monaghan team last year, lightning doesn't always strike twice but don't be shocked if it does.
I would be shocked if Longford beat Donegal.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
Yeah but I haven't seen a team as wide open down the middle since the Jason Ryan era. Hard to read anyhting into a match when one team are set up so badly and their heads drop. Tyrone are obviously a good team and will not be far away from competing in September but there is too much being read into this game.
Roscommon had a great league campaign in 2016 and look where they ended up.
I also felt sad seeing one of the great players of this century in Karl Lacey struggle so badly with his legs gone but then again it also looks like he had a hair transplant and I enjoy the suffering of men that vain.
Monaghan should provide a better guage of where Tyrone are at.
It reminded me of Martin McHughs comments about Down a few years back, coming back to bit him now.
For me this was a good win that you can read nothing into. Donegal were lacking in ability and tactical astutest which meant they were going to lose. But they were also lacking in experience and character which meant they completely folded.
Anyone can look good and have great discipline etc etc when theres nothing in front of ye
This match told us nothing but it was nice to get one over on Donegal two seasons on the trot all the same esp after all those defeats.
Longford won't fear Donegal.
Granard v Bundoran isn't even a contest.
now that the dust has settled on the game and ive watched it a second time i can see there was a definite shift in tactics from tyrone. longer kickouts, variety of kicking into full forward line, less ponderous fist passing and the result was a very good performance. the tyrone players really seemed to enjoy being allowed to do what they do best and thats play football. donegal shocking poor though so wouldnt be getting too carried away with result.
Still want Mickey's head on a stake, STG? ;)
maybe the penny has dropped with him? maybe he has been on here reading my posts? id say he has decided to go out all guns blazing in his last year.
Quote from: southtyronegael on June 21, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
maybe the penny has dropped with him? maybe he has been on here reading my posts? id say he has decided to go out all guns blazing in his last year.
He'll still be there next year.
will all depend on the next few games though. remember this time last year when we scored 5-16 against cavan? alot of talk about all irelands and what a great manager mickey was but it proved to be another false dawn. time will tell.
Quote from: southtyronegael on June 21, 2017, 10:26:18 PM
now that the dust has settled on the game and ive watched it a second time i can see there was a definite shift in tactics from tyrone. longer kickouts, variety of kicking into full forward line, less ponderous fist passing and the result was a very good performance. the tyrone players really seemed to enjoy being allowed to do what they do best and thats play football. donegal shocking poor though so wouldnt be getting too carried away with result.
Do you ever sit back and think maybe Mickey Harte knows a bit more about football than you do? During the last 3 league games when you were coming on calling for his head it never occurred to you that perhaps he was holding something back for the championship. Not once did that seem to factor into your over the top nonsense. And I'm glad you brought up the Cavan game last year below as you seem to have forgotten about it when talking about how negative Tyrone played football last year. It isn't always easy to play football against the top teams when they go defensive like Donegal and Mayo last year.
Harte is no one trick pony when it comes to tactics and they have varied considerably at times since he took over. His longevity and ability to motivate the players and keep more or less all the top players in the county playing over such a period is testament to the man. Long may he continue managing Tyrone.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 21, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
Yeah but I haven't seen a team as wide open down the middle since the Jason Ryan era. Hard to read anyhting into a match when one team are set up so badly and their heads drop. Tyrone are obviously a good team and will not be far away from competing in September but there is too much being read into this game.
Roscommon had a great league campaign in 2016 and look where they ended up.
I also felt sad seeing one of the great players of this century in Karl Lacey struggle so badly with his legs gone but then again it also looks like he had a hair transplant and I enjoy the suffering of men that vain.
Monaghan should provide a better guage of where Tyrone are at.
I don't think there is really. If anything the response has been pretty measured given the nature of the win. The majority of pundits and posters on social media are saying the same thing, it was a brilliant Tyrone performance and probably the performance of the year so far from any team, but it comes with two huge asterisk, 1) Donegal were very poor on the day and that has to be taken into account, and 2) It's still only June so any good performance is in the context of us not even having had a full round of qualifiers or a single provincial final yet.
Yes it was great, yes it probably elevates us into 3rd most likely to win an all-ireland given Mayo and Donegals failures, but it still leaves us with no idea how we'll do against Dublin or Kerry in Croke Park. That's where we've failed so often the last 5 years and that's the real test.
I think most Tyrone fans felt it was our best performance in about 5 or even 7 years but I think it's also fair to say it was probably Donegals worst performance in maybe 5 years.
There's no doubt it was. It could even easily be argued it was the best performance since 2008 given it's really the first time we've beaten a top 4 team in the Championship in that time. Our only other good results since then are against the likes of Kildare and Monaghan.
Quote from: Jayop on June 22, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
There's no doubt it was. It could even easily be argued it was the best performance since 2008 given it's really the first time we've beaten a top 4 team in the Championship in that time. Our only other good results since then are against the likes of Kildare and Monaghan.
What about last year?
ha, yeah we beat them too last year.
But this was clearly a miles better performance than that.
Quote from: Jayop on June 22, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
There's no doubt it was. It could even easily be argued it was the best performance since 2008 given it's really the first time we've beaten a top 4 team in the Championship in that time. Our only other good results since then are against the likes of Kildare and Monaghan.
Agree - This was the best performance since 2008.
Consistency and balls needed now going forward
Quote from: Jayop on June 22, 2017, 05:34:51 PM
ha, yeah we beat them too last year.
But this was clearly a miles better performance than that.
Definitely. Last year had an element of luck about it with those two wonder scores
Quote from: WT4E on June 22, 2017, 10:05:12 PM
Quote from: Jayop on June 22, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
There's no doubt it was. It could even easily be argued it was the best performance since 2008 given it's really the first time we've beaten a top 4 team in the Championship in that time. Our only other good results since then are against the likes of Kildare and Monaghan.
Agree - This was the best performance since 2008.
Consistency and balls needed now going forward
Our best performance since the demolition of Dublin in 2008
It just shows how long most of us feel it has been since we've threw the shackles off and really went for it and had we taken at least 2 more goal chances it would have been a massive scoreline.
It reminds me a bit of 2007 when we beat Donegal in the semifinal 2.15 to 1.07 and then went on to beat Monaghan in a very competitive (dirty) Ulster final, only to lose to Meath in quarterfinal.
Are we on a similar path this year?
As a matter of interest and without checking wiki, can anyone name the top scorers in the 4 provinces in 2007?
Did any of ye at the game see this point that Mark Bradley scored where Peter Harte hit an amazing diagonal ball that curled into Bradley's path. Woolie Parkinson was giving out loads about the BBC coverage showing too much replays and that they didn't see this amazing pass from Harte.
I don't remember it myself but a few are saying its the best pass of the year so far.
https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 23, 2017, 10:39:55 AM
It just shows how long most of us feel it has been since we've threw the shackles off and really went for it and had we taken at least 2 more goal chances it would have been a massive scoreline.
It reminds me a bit of 2007 when we beat Donegal in the semifinal 2.15 to 1.07 and then went on to beat Monaghan in a very competitive (dirty) Ulster final, only to lose to Meath in quarterfinal.
Are we on a similar path this year?
As a matter of interest and without checking wiki, can anyone name the top scorers in the 4 provinces in 2007?
Pure guess work here. I'll go Cooper in Munster. Tommy Freeman in Ulster, Michael Meehan in Connacht and Tomas Quinn in Leinster. That Donegal game in 2007 was one of my favourite days. Them coming off the hype of the league win. Forget was immense, getting 4 or 5 from play with that Mulgrew goal as good a team goal as I've seen from Tyrone. I remember an early goal in the final (Jordan?). But think they came back at us after us getting a big lead. Was SON fully fit whole 2007?
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 23, 2017, 02:30:54 PM
Did any of ye at the game see this point that Mark Bradley scored where Peter Harte hit an amazing diagonal ball that curled into Bradley's path. Woolie Parkinson was giving out loads about the BBC coverage showing too much replays and that they didn't see this amazing pass from Harte.
I don't remember it myself but a few are saying its the best pass of the year so far.
https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour
I watched it on BBC and the replays took away from a lot of the action so i didn't see it. It was highlighted a lot on social media during and after the game. I don't know if it was a super pass or, a very good pass being used to add more weight to the problem of replays during live coverage.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 23, 2017, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 23, 2017, 10:39:55 AM
It just shows how long most of us feel it has been since we've threw the shackles off and really went for it and had we taken at least 2 more goal chances it would have been a massive scoreline.
It reminds me a bit of 2007 when we beat Donegal in the semifinal 2.15 to 1.07 and then went on to beat Monaghan in a very competitive (dirty) Ulster final, only to lose to Meath in quarterfinal.
Are we on a similar path this year?
As a matter of interest and without checking wiki, can anyone name the top scorers in the 4 provinces in 2007?
Pure guess work here. I'll go Cooper in Munster. Tommy Freeman in Ulster, Michael Meehan in Connacht and Tomas Quinn in Leinster. That Donegal game in 2007 was one of my favourite days. Them coming off the hype of the league win. Forget was immense, getting 4 or 5 from play with that Mulgrew goal as good a team goal as I've seen from Tyrone. I remember an early goal in the final (Jordan?). But think they came back at us after us getting a big lead. Was SON fully fit whole 2007?
SON struggled with injury that summer and didn't have much influence at all. McGuigan obviously missing too. Dooher took on the role of both that day against Donegal, scored 0-5 I think? He went off injured against Meath too. Tyrone did well to go so far in the circumstances.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 23, 2017, 02:37:43 PM
As a matter of interest and without checking wiki, can anyone name the top scorers in the 4 provinces in 2007?
Pure guess work here. I'll go Cooper in Munster. Tommy Freeman in Ulster, Michael Meehan in Connacht and Tomas Quinn in Leinster.
Tommy Freeman is right and the other three were all rather surprising as well.
Sligo won Connacht and it was M Breheny with 0-15
Yeah Dooher had a stormer that day and I think McFadden punched him in the mouth near the end and got sent off.
It's good to see most of the talk all week about how bad Donegal were as it will dampen the expectations about Tyrone. The last thing we need is for people to be talking about us as possible challengers to the Dubs or Kerry.
I wouldn't be so quick to say Tyrone have thrown of the shackles either. I think it was more a case of the players adapting to the opposition, who seemed to part like the red sea when a Tyrone player surged down the middle from around the half way line. Lost count at how many times Donnelly, Cavanagh etc just injected a bit of speed and suddenly moved from outside the 45 to the 21 without even having to evade a tackle. This weakness obviously contributed to Tyrone's game management approach.
Has anybody a number for the amount of catches Colm Cavanagh won on Sunday? After the match it seemed to me like he won 50, but surely in reality it was at least 6.
I see the Gary Glitter chant is back.
Quote from: ONeill on June 23, 2017, 07:04:36 PM
I see the Gary Glitter chant is back.
What is that and what is it in aid of?
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2017, 12:25:37 PM
Perhaps I should say he is finished in the role Donegal have played him in. ::)
The days of being a superhero and box to box are gone
Hate to say it but told you so