The Many Faces of US Politics...

[sid waddell]

It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

[omaghjoe]

Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.

All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

[sid waddell]

Umberto Eco's 14 criteria of fascism. Trump ticks every single one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

"The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.

"The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.

"The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.

"Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.

"Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.

"Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.

"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.

Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.

"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.

"Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.

"Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."

"Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."

"Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."

"Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.

[whitey]

It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

[sid waddell]

Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.

All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

One of the paradoxes of the modern right-wing is they attempt to destroy nuance in favour of simplism when nuance actually exists, and they mendaciously attempt to confuse things by attempting to introduce fake nuance when things are actually black and white.

The American Civil War is a good example. The Confederacy was an evil entity fighting for an evil cause. And yet one of the few things right-wing crackpots attempt to see nuance in is the cause of the Confederacy. QED. The current day Republican party consistently pushes for confederate symbolism and paraphernalia to be displayed publicly in the face of black people - that black people should daily have to be confronted with the groteesque paraphernalia which explicitly sought to keep them enslaved. This is akin to campaigning for Nazi flags to be flown in the streets of Jerusalem, or outside synagogues.

Trump is the Confederacy in modern day.

Like Hitler, what Trump offers is deeply simplistic and it is based on a lie.

In Germany, the Hitler lie was that economic hardship had been created by a conspiracy by Jews, with the white German as aa pure, entirely innocent victim.

In America, the Trump lie is that economic hardship has been created by blacks, by other ethnic minorities, by women, by sexual minorities, by anybody speaking out on behalf of any of said groups of people. With whites as pure, entirely innocent victims of said fake conspiracy.

Some of the biggest victims of Trump are his own working class supporters, who  needless to say are white. He plays them for fools. He has done nothing for them except made their lives worse than they already were.

Yet these supporters, exactly like Hitler's supporters, are happy to buy into the lie because, deep down, they believe in white supremacism.

White supremacism is the abhorrent, ghoulish core of Trump's appeal.

[sid waddell]

It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.

[whitey]

It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.

But whats a racist?


According to Kamala Harris, Joe Biden is a racist. Last week he defined for people of color, what is acceptable and unacceptable........pretty outrageous if you ask me (and I like Joe Biden)

Bill Clinton told Ted Kennedy that Barack Obama should be serving them coffee......is he a racist?

Do you actually live here, or are just giving us your opinions based on zero real life experience?

Do you actually know any police officers or have family members who serve in law enforcement?

Do you actually know anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Have you ever actually filed a tax return in the United States or served on a jury?

[sid waddell]

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Translation of what the racist above is saying: "If you're white, and you live near any black people, you'd be racist too, just like me - they're scum."

[sid waddell]

It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.

But whats a racist?


According to Kamala Harris, Joe Biden is a racist. Last week he defined for people of color, what is acceptable and unacceptable........pretty outrageous if you ask me (and I like Joe Biden)

Bill Clinton told Ted Kennedy that Barack Obama should be serving them coffee......is he a racist?

Do you actually live here, or are just giving us your opinions based on zero real life experience?

Do you actually know any police officers or have family members who serve in law enforcement?

Do you actually know anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Have you ever actually filed a tax return in the United States or served on a jury?

What's a racist?

Well, have a look at your own posts here for years standing for the categorical answer to that.

It's you.

Have a look at the bit I quoted by you in your previous post. Classic racism. And a classic attempt to rationalise racism.

The rest of your post above is utter nonsense designed to cloak racism, and cloaak your wholesale rejection of reality in favour of a sheltered echo chamber of racist ignorance.

I did enjoy the bit about "real life experience" though, and I laughed.

Your whole posting output on this forum has deliberately denigrated the actual real life experience of people you cannot comprehend, but refuse to comprehend.

In terms of the rejection of actual real life experience, you are the king.

And thus, you are as poorly qualified a person to talk about real life experience as I can think of.

[whitey]

Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot

[omaghjoe]

Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.

All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

One of the paradoxes of the modern right-wing is they attempt to destroy nuance in favour of simplism when nuance actually exists, and they mendaciously attempt to confuse things by attempting to introduce fake nuance when things are actually black and white.

The American Civil War is a good example. The Confederacy was an evil entity fighting for an evil cause. And yet one of the few things right-wing crackpots attempt to see nuance in is the cause of the Confederacy. QED. The current day Republican party consistently pushes for confederate symbolism and paraphernalia to be displayed publicly in the face of black people - that black people should daily have to be confronted with the groteesque paraphernalia which explicitly sought to keep them enslaved. This is akin to campaigning for Nazi flags to be flown in the streets of Jerusalem, or outside synagogues.

Trump is the Confederacy in modern day.

Like Hitler, what Trump offers is deeply simplistic and it is based on a lie.

In Germany, the Hitler lie was that economic hardship had been created by a conspiracy by Jews, with the white German as aa pure, entirely innocent victim.

In America, the Trump lie is that economic hardship has been created by blacks, by other ethnic minorities, by women, by sexual minorities, by anybody speaking out on behalf of any of said groups of people. With whites as pure, entirely innocent victims of said fake conspiracy.

Some of the biggest victims of Trump are his own working class supporters, who  needless to say are white. He plays them for fools. He has done nothing for them except made their lives worse than they already were.

Yet these supporters, exactly like Hitler's supporters, are happy to buy into the lie because, deep down, they believe in white supremacism.

White supremacism is the abhorrent, ghoulish core of Trump's appeal.

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution

[sid waddell]

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution

The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

[thewobbler]

Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.

Having read many of your posts oveer a long amount of time, the pattern I've found with them is you almost exclusively tend to take a professional contrarian position which debaates a straw man, without actually dealing with the substance of the issue at hand.

That's the hallmark of somebody who has nothing of substance to say but insists on saying it.

And so it is again here.

Read your post back again.

You literally proved my point about you perfectly. All you have is trolling, which is the hallmark of all Trump suupporters.

I think there's one poster that alone, and very alone, thinks they have a brilliant mind on this forum, it's yourself.

And you do a mean line in taking fake offence.

I think that says a lot about your character as a person - none of it good.

And that you refuse to engage in any way on any matter of substance, but choose to call somebody who tells inconvenient truths "insane" - well, to use your own words, "wow, just wow".

1. I'm not a Trump supporter. The world may be be a series of binary choices to you, but we don't all work like that, so let me explain as succinctly as I can. Finding fault with your rants does not make someone a Trump supporter.

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication. That you choose to question my character for this trait, shows your lack of ammunition. It basically shows you're wrong.

3. It's not really possible to engage with you, for as mentioned in the previous post, you don't wish to discuss. You wish to explain, and your next post after that is rarely a continuation of the topic, but a piercingly rude and intolerant dismissal of the person, not the post.

With regards to no.3, leave me out of the conversation for the last couple of days and look at the replies you've made to any other poster on this thread. Your approach to everyone is the same. I just happen to be today's plaything of choice.


So much anger. So little tolerance.

[sid waddell]

Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot

Your stance now is that the opinion of anybody who doesn't live in America should be dismissed.

Explains a lot about your mindset.

Tease out how your own logic can be applied to history:

"The opinions of those who did not live in Protestant areas of the North of Ireland should bee dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in white areas of apartheid South Africa should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live under Stalin should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in Nazi Germany should be dismissed."

This is literally what you believe. Your search to rationalise your own racism and bigotry can lead you down some very deep rabbit holes.

Still doesn't explain why you dismiss all opinions other than your own, though, no matter where people live.

And especially the views of ethnic and other minorities.

[sid waddell]

Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.

Having read many of your posts oveer a long amount of time, the pattern I've found with them is you almost exclusively tend to take a professional contrarian position which debaates a straw man, without actually dealing with the substance of the issue at hand.

That's the hallmark of somebody who has nothing of substance to say but insists on saying it.

And so it is again here.

Read your post back again.

You literally proved my point about you perfectly. All you have is trolling, which is the hallmark of all Trump suupporters.

I think there's one poster that alone, and very alone, thinks they have a brilliant mind on this forum, it's yourself.

And you do a mean line in taking fake offence.

I think that says a lot about your character as a person - none of it good.

And that you refuse to engage in any way on any matter of substance, but choose to call somebody who tells inconvenient truths "insane" - well, to use your own words, "wow, just wow".

1. I'm not a Trump supporter. The world may be be a series of binary choices to you, but we don't all work like that, so let me explain as succinctly as I can. Finding fault with your rants does not make someone a Trump supporter.

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication. That you choose to question my character for this trait, shows your lack of ammunition. It basically shows you're wrong.

3. It's not really possible to engage with you, for as mentioned in the previous post, you don't wish to discuss. You wish to explain, and your next post after that is rarely a continuation of the topic, but a piercingly rude and intolerant dismissal of the person, not the post.

With regards to no.3, leave me out of the conversation for the last couple of days and look at the replies you've made to any other poster on this thread. Your approach to everyone is the same. I just happen to be today's plaything of choice.


So much anger. So little tolerance.

I didn't call you a Trump supporter. I said that "all you have here is trolling".

Trolling and gaslighting is the hallmark of the online Trump supporter, who hs to resort to such because they cannot find any legitimate arguments.

Now, why you have decided to go down that route in terms of posting style is your own matter, but be aware that it is the exact same manner of posting as is favoured by Trump supporters.

You haven't been able to find fault with my posts. You are merely angry that I have posted them, because you find them confronting and uncomfortable, because they are accurate. You have been unable to point out why you think they are not.

Your sum argument is to shout "you are wrong!" That is not an argument. It's shouting.

Choosing whether to be pro or anti-fascist is very much a binary choice, my friend. Fascism as practised by Trump is an objective evil.

It is yourself who has taken offence. You take offence with my opinions. You believe I should have no right to voice them.

And you have not engaged one whit on the substance of them.

If you are incapable of engaging on the substance of the topic, as is so plainly the case, why are you commenting here?

So much anger. So little tolerance.

If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

I have a low tolerance for racist bullshit, alright.

But according to you, I should have more tolerance for it.

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication.

This from the "faceless internet warrior" who sees fit to call others "insane" because they don't like their opinions.

I post under my real name on Twitter. But then again, unlike some others here, I have no reason to be ashamed to put my real name to my opinions.