John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

[Baile Brigín 2]

The best hope of avoiding controversy is to pick a saints name from about the 10th century that there only is about 2 lines written on, the lines are probably written by a monk in the 12 century and are going to portray the person as a saint so there is a good chance you should be fine with them.  Anyone post about 1800 there is a good chance there will be some dirt on them.

The best way to avoid controversy is to pick somebody or something who didn't fight for slavery.

Name a person and I am confident I could find something on them that at least some people will find controversial

Mother Teresa
Michael Collins
Abraham Lincoln
Winston Churchill

Thief, traitor, nothing jumps out, drunk genocidal bigot.

Do you think there is much demand for a club named after Churchill or Theresa?

Drunk Genocidal bigot for Churchill for sure and in fairness having just read more on Mitchel's wiki page some of his views are not great.

It still holds true that it will be hard to find a person without controversy.  One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter depending on your point of view could be labelled against practical every club named after a person who fought in the conflict in Ireland.

But it isn't.

[Taylor]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

Great Sid - so 'can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?'

[sid waddell]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

Great Sid - so 'can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?'

See, you're going into victimhood mode now because you feel confronted by my post.

I already did direct you towards such posts. There are dozens of them on this thread. I'm sure you can read.

Frankly, the decision to remove Mitchel's name from GAA clubs should be an absolute no brainer and should be done voluntarily by those clubs - if they are serious about being anti-racist.

Same goes for the Washington Redskins - well, that organisation has already proved it isn't serious about being anti-racist because it has had more than enough time to realise the implications of keeping its name.

[rosnarun]

its ok lads you can close this thread
Biily rays cyrus; daughter  has reached out to Leo between them they solve Covid and Racism. im sure they'll include Poverty , Gay righs, Womens Rights,the environment and sick puppies along the way

Whew I was getting worried there

[BennyCake]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

We have a very long running problem with Travellers!

[J70]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

Great Sid - so 'can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?'

See, you're going into victimhood mode now because you feel confronted by my post.

I already did direct you towards such posts. There are dozens of them on this thread. I'm sure you can read.

Frankly, the decision to remove Mitchel's name from GAA clubs should be an absolute no brainer and should be done voluntarily by those clubs - if they are serious about being anti-racist.

Same goes for the Washington Redskins - well, that organisation has already proved it isn't serious about being anti-racist because it has had more than enough time to realise the implications of keeping its name.

I expect the Redskins will see the light soon enough.

[tonto1888]

For me John Mitchell should be looked on Simply upon his views on our problems.
Newry is proud that he stood for the Irish cause.
I agree with that .

So we just ignore the rest of what he did?

Sure then Jimmy Saville deserves a statue for his healthcare fundraising.

Poor taste .

It's not. Its the conclusion of that narrow logic.

Mitchel was an extreme racist, but ignore that, he was sound on the national question.

Then we can easily ignore Churchills racism and the Tans or Stalins genocide, sure they beat the Nazis. So what if Michael Jackson raped kids, he invented a dance. Saville built a whole focking hospital.

Tipperary are going to have to find a new cup for their Senior Hurling Champions....Dan Breen Cup is  no longer acceptable and should be melted down

Dan Breen was a big supporter of the Nazis

And these are the conversations we need to have.

Was he a big Nazi? Was he employed by the Nazis? Did he rag on Jews?

I think there is an objective difference between an unsavoury opinion and actual acts to further said agenda

I wish I could say it was just some throw away comment he made.....it's more serious than that

It would actually be a disqualifier for some I'm sad to say

Personally, I wouldn't have an issue with it

What exactly did Breen do to support the Nazis. Genuine question.

[tonto1888]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

We have a very long running problem with Travellers!

We have w very long running problem with plenty of different types of people on this island. Why single out travellers?

[whitey]

But why just make a move on slavery?  Isn't that just selective outrage?

What about Stalinism and Naziism?

What about people who expressed anti traveller or anti gay sentiments?

I regret to say (if, like some have suggested on here, we  open the discussion to the wider community) we would also need to have  a discussion teams, pitches and competitions named in memory of IRA/INLA members

[BennyCake]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

We have a very long running problem with Travellers!

We have w very long running problem with plenty of different types of people on this island. Why single out travellers?

Don't be naive. There's a reason why there is so much anti-traveller feeling in this country (and in Britain). No other group has such a high percentage of scumbags amongst them.  There is a huge problem with them. Intimidating, thieving, interrogating, torturing and threatening people and neighbourhoods. Fines and sentencing clearly doesn't work as their criminal record won't affect them getting mortgages, jobs etc, the way it affects everyone else. Police mostly don't want to know when it comes to dealing with them. Everyone of them are the same, raised and taught to be like this from a young age.

Absolute scum the lot of them.

[BennyCake]

Unless you're either an ancient saint, or you have killed at least one other person, you don't really stand a chance in this country of having something named after you.

Ancient saints are likely a combination of good deeds attributed to two or more people. Or over time, their exploits have got more and more exaggerated.

[J70]

But why just make a move on slavery?  Isn't that just selective outrage?

What about Stalinism and Naziism?

What about people who expressed anti traveller or anti gay sentiments?

I regret to say (if, like some have suggested on here, we  open the discussion to the wider community) we would also need to have  a discussion teams, pitches and competitions named in memory of IRA/INLA members

And what would be wrong with discussing any of that?

[whitey]

But why just make a move on slavery?  Isn't that just selective outrage?

What about Stalinism and Naziism?

What about people who expressed anti traveller or anti gay sentiments?

I regret to say (if, like some have suggested on here, we  open the discussion to the wider community) we would also need to have  a discussion teams, pitches and competitions named in memory of IRA/INLA members

And what would be wrong with discussing any of that?

Nothing wrong with discussing it as long as we don't dispatch our history to the dustbin in a futile display of political correctness

[tonto1888]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

Can you direct me to the posts here about this lesson that the load of white people have learned Sid?

Every post on this thread that engages in whataboutery (ie. a play for fake victimhood in the absence of being able to defend why Mitchel continues to adorn the names of GAA clubs) or says something like "where does it stop" (an explicit plea of fake victimhood - I always read such phrases in a stereotypical Brexiteer voice) is exactly the sort of thing I refer to in my first quoted post in this exchange.

The real lesson out of all this is that endemic racism and lack of accountability for racist police brutality persists not just in the US, but that endemic racism persists in all white majority societies, including Ireland.

Liveline ran for over a week with heartbreaking stories from Irish people of colour, we operate the dehumanising Direct provision system, and we have a very long running problem with anti-Traveller discrimination and bigotry in this country. Peter Casey saw his vote multiply twentyfold when he decided to go full racist.

Symbols are a great way of perpetuating that endemic racism, and yet here we have a load of white people who fail to see  problem with the glorification of a confederate, pro-slavery propagandist.

And every single word here in favour of the retention of John Mitchel's name adorning GAA clubs has been dripping in the exact sort of fake white victimhood I talk about.

When endemic racism is highlighted, white supremacists always attempt to change the narrative.

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number one was "this issue is not the endmic racism and the lack of accountabilty for racist police brutality, the issue is the looting".

Attempted white supremacist narrative change number two is "They've gone too far! Where does it stop?!!!"

White supremacism isn't just people going round in KKK hoods or holding burning torches or shouting about blood and soil or driving cars into innocent anti-fascist protestors, you know.

White supremacism is the search for narratives to deflect, to deny, to turn reality on its head, to turn victimhood on its head, when white people are taken out of their comfort zone.

We have a very long running problem with Travellers!

We have w very long running problem with plenty of different types of people on this island. Why single out travellers?

Don't be naive. There's a reason why there is so much anti-traveller feeling in this country (and in Britain). No other group has such a high percentage of scumbags amongst them.  There is a huge problem with them. Intimidating, thieving, interrogating, torturing and threatening people and neighbourhoods. Fines and sentencing clearly doesn't work as their criminal record won't affect them getting mortgages, jobs etc, the way it affects everyone else. Police mostly don't want to know when it comes to dealing with them. Everyone of them are the same, raised and taught to be like this from a young age.

Absolute scum the lot of them.

Absolute scum the lot of them? You sure about that? Really? Says a lot about you if you stand by that comment. I happen to know for a fact that's not true. I went to school with travellers who were far from scum. Served travellers in a pub who were far from scum.

[Rossfan]

It's really weird that the "lesson" a load of white people here have taken out of all this racist police brutality stuff in the US is that white people are the real victims because a racist scene got deleted from Fawlty Towers and people are talking about consigning slavery propagandist John Mitchel to the dustbin of history that he deserves to lie in.

r. There's a reason why there is so much anti-traveller feeling in this country (and in Britain). No other group has such a high percentage of scumbags amongst them.  There is a huge problem with them. Intimidating, thieving, interrogating, torturing and threatening people and neighbourhoods. Fines and sentencing clearly doesn't work as their criminal record won't affect them getting mortgages, jobs etc, the way it affects everyone else. Police mostly don't want to know when it comes to dealing with them. Everyone of them are the same, raised and taught to be like this from a young age.

Absolute scum the lot of them.

What if you put e.g "Nordies" there instead of Travellers.........