John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

[Rossfan]

Mayo's most famous hurling club actually have "The Devil" in their logo (because the only other exciting thing to have ever happened in Tooreen is that the Devil supposedly appeared at their local dance hall back in the 1960s)

I suppose will be accusing them of Satanism next

Very apt for that land of darkness and evil.

[sid waddell]

Be interesting if the members of each of the clubs named after John Mitchel held a vote on the following question:

"Do you want the club to be associated with racism and slavery?"

I wonder how the votes would go?

[Rossfan]

That's your credible evidence?

As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not

Where is this strong evidence because it certainly isn't in the links you posted

There's enough evidence to begin an online campaign to remove his name from Casement Park

Not in those links

LOL-and therein lies the crux of the issue my friend

You don't need evidence, you just need a large and loud enough mob online to start threatening to boycott sponsors etc to get the result you require

(And BTW-I'm just employing the same logic put forth by Sid and J70 for them demanding GAA Clubs disassociate themselves from  John Mitchel)

I did not demand that.

Apologies if I misunderstood one of your prior posts

"Personally, I think it is absolutely a matter for the wider GAA, but reasonable people can disagree."

So non club members or a bureaucrat in GAA HQ gets to dictate to a club who've been in existence for 100 years what their name should be?

Let the club and their members make the decision and let everyone else mind their own business

I absolutely think it is a matter for the wider GAA... to discuss and consider. This is a difficult issue for all of the reasons that have been suggested. But the perception and reputation of the GAA is potentially a factor, hence my leaning towards it not just being the affair of an individual club.

However, I didn't demand the removal of his name.

So if one of the clubs in question says thanks for your input but we're keeping the name what is your response?

You either
(a) accept their decision (but publicly denounce their decision) and allow them to fend for themselves when it comes to media and society's criticism or;
(b) kick them out of the Association   
(c) create a criteria (that applies retrospectively) which mandates how all clubs must be named across the island (e.g. no political figures, no religious figures, or figures otherwise that will bring the Association into disrepute)

None are pretty but those are the options.

I'd go for a - you can't make them change without opening a Pandora's box regarding the naming of grounds, clubs, cups after physical force republicans, religious figures etc so condemn their decision, encourage sponsors to boycott them, refuse them all grants etc as long as the name remains in place but in the short term accept they have made their bed and are prepared to lie in it

If a new club is founded and named after a local GAA person, but in 30 years time it's discovered he voted 'no' in the same sex marriage referendum.

Is this what the future snowflakes will have an issue with, akin to what they're currently having about John Mitchell? And will they then demand the club drop their name in 2050?

Errigal Ciaran St. Mickey Hartes could be in bother....

[sid waddell]

And how many descendants of victims of the Confederacy live in Newry, Castlebar or Tralee.

I'm not a betting person, but I'd say zero is a pretty good bet.

So others are now taking it upon themselves to be outraged on their behalf.

I could concoct all types of things I could be outraged about if I started playing connect the dots

How many descendants of Auschwitz survivors live in Newry, Castlebar or Tralee?

Not many, I'd say.

How many live in Glenullin?

I'm not a betting person either, but I'd say zero is a pretty good bet.

So according to your logic, there should be no problem with naming a GAA club in such places after a Nazi.

Bleedin non-Jews taking it on themselves to be outraged at Nazi ideology. That's literally your logic.

[sid waddell]

If a new club is founded and named after a local GAA person, but in 30 years time it's discovered he voted 'no' in the same sex marriage referendum.

Is this what the future snowflakes will have an issue with, akin to what they're currently having about John Mitchell? And will they then demand the club drop their name in 2050?

The mental gymnastics some people will willingly perform to defend the celebration of propagandists for the dehumanisation and enslavement of black people is most, ahem, "interesting".

[whitey]

Tipperary will have to find a new song to celebrate their next All Ireland victory.....Dan Breen was a big supporter of the Nazis

https://www.google.com/amp/s/punditarena.com/gaa/thepateam/tipperary-galtee-mountain-boy/amp/

[J70]

So according to J70 GAA clubs now have to bow to the mob otherwise he and others would "encourage sponsors to boycott them, refuse them all grants etc as long as the name remains in place"

So while you say youre not  "demanding" they change their name, if they don't, well, you'll essentially shut them down because no club can survive without sponsors and grants

Everyone should sit back and actually think about what he just said

I never said any such thing.

[Milltown Row2]

Did chief look after your own club, if I'm fact you are associated with one.

If and it's a big if, those clubs care to discuss this they'll do so without your input or considerations

[BennyCake]

If a new club is founded and named after a local GAA person, but in 30 years time it's discovered he voted 'no' in the same sex marriage referendum.

Is this what the future snowflakes will have an issue with, akin to what they're currently having about John Mitchell? And will they then demand the club drop their name in 2050?

The mental gymnastics some people will willingly perform to defend the celebration of propagandists for the dehumanisation and enslavement of black people is most, ahem, "interesting".

Who or what am I supposed to be defending?

By the way, it wasn't just black people who were slaves.

[whitey]

This is fantastic

We've laid out the ground rules (or at least J70 has)

If a member of the public, or a member of another GAA club,  finds the name of your Team, Pitch, Cup or Crest offensive, they should petition Croke Park with a view to forcing you to change it

If after input from all interested parties, GAA HQ orders you to change it and you don't, you will no longer qualify for any grant money from Croke Park. In addition the broader population should Be encouraged to boycott your sponsors to "persuade "them to stop sponsoring you

[Chief]

This is fantastic

We've laid out the ground rules (or at least J70 has)

If a member of the public, or a member of another GAA club,  finds the name of your Team, Pitch, Cup or Crest offensive, they should petition Croke Park with a view to forcing you to change it

If after input from all interested parties, GAA HQ orders you to change it and you don't, you will no longer qualify for any grant money from Croke Park. In addition the broader population should Be encouraged to boycott your sponsors to "persuade "them to stop sponsoring you

Why in under god do you keep attributing things I say to J70?

[Rossfan]

Because he's a Mayoyank

[Chief]

This is fantastic

We've laid out the ground rules (or at least J70 has)

If a member of the public, or a member of another GAA club,  finds the name of your Team, Pitch, Cup or Crest offensive, they should petition Croke Park with a view to forcing you to change it

If after input from all interested parties, GAA HQ orders you to change it and you don't, you will no longer qualify for any grant money from Croke Park. In addition the broader population should Be encouraged to boycott your sponsors to "persuade "them to stop sponsoring you

Yeah - like I openly admitted before I'm all for using financial pressure to stop the glorification of racists and their apologists. I'm happy enough to stand over that statement quite plainly.

I struggle to understand why you think repeatedly restating my argument is somehow going to change that.

As for your ground rules, I'm not sure you ever did "join the dots for me" in my previous post. Is it your position that any team, pitch, club or crest can be named after anybody that condoned or committed atrocities, providing of course the victims of the atrocities are not actually in the relevant area?

[Chief]

Did chief look after your own club, if I'm fact you are associated with one.

If and it's a big if, those clubs care to discuss this they'll do so without your input or considerations

Thanks for sharing.

[J70]

This is fantastic

We've laid out the ground rules (or at least J70 has)

If a member of the public, or a member of another GAA club,  finds the name of your Team, Pitch, Cup or Crest offensive, they should petition Croke Park with a view to forcing you to change it

If after input from all interested parties, GAA HQ orders you to change it and you don't, you will no longer qualify for any grant money from Croke Park. In addition the broader population should Be encouraged to boycott your sponsors to "persuade "them to stop sponsoring you

Are you on the drink??