John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

[sid waddell]

Here's a thought...

If we're going waaaaay back here about controversial figures, alleged racism, slavery etc.... Could we not say that the actual foundation of the GAA was xenophobic? An organisation that did not include the sports associated with another country in its setup, and then banning its own members from watching/participating in these "foreign games"?

Maybe the GAA as an organisation needs closing down?

The deflections and bizarre (non-)logic just get nuttier and nuttier.

[macdanger2]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

It's subjective in that some reasonable people would justify the actions of those INLA men while other reasonable people would condemn them - that's what makes it subjective. I don't think anyone is trying to justify Mitchell's views on slavery but I'm open to correction on that - as such his views can be considered objectively wrong.

If Casement was proven to be a paedophile (and I understand those claims are unproven?), then I don't think anyone would attempt to justify what he did, most would objectively consider it to be wrong.

Anyone can object about whatever they want but the point I'm making is whether the thing they're objecting about is a matter of opinion (people can reasonably hold either viewpoint on whether or not INLA members actions were right or not) or whether the thing they're objecting about is something which is generally accepted as being wrong (e.g. Mitchell's view on slavery or someone being a paedophile)

Is being offended over an "opinion" an historic figure had about something they had no meaningful role in, 130 years ago,  in a country over 3000 miles away not the epitome of subjectivity. People choose what they wanted to be offended about. It's called selective outrage

I would have thought everyone would find his views offensive, do you not find his views on slavery offensive? Edit: I think think most reasonable people would consider his views on slavery to be flat out wrong and I'm not aware of anyone on here who have said otherwise

You sailed close to it with the 'just an opinion' and 'no influence' guff

Can you point me to where I said this? 

[Baile Brigín 2]

Whoops. Retracted.

[Rossfan]

Cork Co Board have banned the Confederate flag from their Grounds.

[Armagh18]

I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Jesus Christ.

[Eamonnca1]

Cork Co Board have banned the Confederate flag from their Grounds.

Proper order.

Cork GAA to confiscate Confederate flags from fans attending matches

[whitey]

I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Jesus Christ.

Don't worry ......it called sarcasm

[tonto1888]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

Plenty of religious iconography in other sports, do they have the same arguments? St Pats spring to mind, catholic iconography on their crest too. I think thats maybe more a county argument, clubs don't necessarily have to be as inclusive.

By the way, if this new East Belfast club names themselves after Carson or Cromwell nobody who thinks names are just namrs can object.

Maybe they should go the whole hog and name it after Lenny Murphy, Billy Wright or Soldier F. Would give it that lived experience feel, given that all were "active" within many people's lives and memories. Be interesting if only to see the reaction here.

Clubs should only be named after local figures, preferably with some form of connection to hbe sport.

Billy Wright actually played Gaelic football, so that's that sorted.

The Billy Wright thing. Wasn't that just a myth

[tonto1888]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

What's the credible evidence that casement abused minors

[Milltown Row2]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

What's the credible evidence that casement abused minors

Ive asked him before, he hadn't bothered to show it. He's a dick

[BennyCake]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

What's the credible evidence that casement abused minors

I thought it was maybe the Brits who put that rumour about to further discredit Casement's character.

[whitey]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

What's the credible evidence that casement abused minors

I thought it was maybe the Brits who put that rumour about to further discredit Casement's character.

Believe whatever you want

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/casement-and-paedophilia-1.1154823


https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/our-decent-society-was-in-denial-about-sex-abuse-26538648.html

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/28/roger-casement-gay-irish-martyr-or-victim-of-a-british-forgery

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/casements-black-diaries-closed-books-reopened/

[tonto1888]

That's your credible evidence?

[BennyCake]

How is it subjective

What if the hunger strikers had been IRA/INLA members who "murdered" people? 

Would the  family members of their victims not be entitled to object?

Casements name came up.....there's some pretty credible evidence that he sexually abused minors?

I'm sure victims of sexual abuse would find it abhorrent that a stadium is named after a paedophile!

Who gets to decide what is objectionable and what isn't?

Is it a conversation for the club members or is it a conversation for the broader community?

What's the credible evidence that casement abused minors

I thought it was maybe the Brits who put that rumour about to further discredit Casement's character.

Believe whatever you want

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/casement-and-paedophilia-1.1154823


https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/our-decent-society-was-in-denial-about-sex-abuse-26538648.html

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/28/roger-casement-gay-irish-martyr-or-victim-of-a-british-forgery

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/casements-black-diaries-closed-books-reopened/

It wouldn't be like the Brits to fabricate a story or "evidence" against anyone 

[whitey]

That's your credible evidence?

As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not