The IRISH RUGBY thread

[nrico2006]

Capt pat England scored a try did.

[13aside]

well done to ireland yesterday for their great win against england at twickenham in a gruelling encounter,spoke to a well informed rugby supporter and in his opnion buckley is simply too tall for a tight-head prop-any views? 

[thejuice]

Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.

This one is for the exiles.
An exile can never get enough of that

Aye was just thinking that there... Must be a huge day for all the Irish over there... even more so when we stuff them!!

Really? I've been living in England these last 7 years.

It was great in 2004 as they were world champions as was beating them in Croke Park but they are only a pale shadow of that team now. English fans are aware of this that their team are not what they used to be nor where they should be given the resources and tradition they have. Beating them now feels no different to beating Wales, Scotland or anyone else for me.

Mind you it was generally Englands tactics that made it a poor game to watch.

[Capt Pat]

Buckley is no taller than John Hayes. Where it may create a problem is the comparison between Buckley and Healy, I do not think it would be good for the hooker to be binding with a guy of 5ft 10 on one side and 6ft 7 on the other. All the things they are saying about Buckley are a repeat of the same things they were saying about Hayes 100 caps ago.

Yes England may have scored a try yesterday but nobody knos for sure.

[Bord na Mona man]

Yep, he's about the same height as John Hayes, though looks much bulkier. Unfortunately Hayes really looks in decline,

If Buckley's scrummaging is as poor as claimed, then Hayes must now be in a really bad way.
Buckley looks decent in open play. He made one very good turnover when Ireland were on the back foot late on.
Giving Buckley or Court a start is not such a huge punt given the pressure the scrum has been under lately.

[DuffleKing]

Buckley has to be seriously looked at. the only way to get the bull to the world cup next year is as an impact sub for the last 20, when packs are tiring. for that to work, someone has to start.

[Dinny Breen]

A half-dead John Hayes is still a better scrummager that Tony Buckley, if he was to start we would get maimed in the scrums. It's his bread and butter and quite frankly he's shit at it. Any Munster fan would tell you the same.

Now he did ok yesterday but until Munster get a scrum doctor in I just can't see him improving enough. Mike Ross and Tom Court are better scrummagers imho.

Tight-head determines how your scrum goes, only out-halfs get paid more in the professional game in England.

[thewobbler]

Hayes has got 100 caps for two reasons, one is a lack of outstanding Irish props over the past decade, but the other and more pertinent being that both management and the media have been unwilling to give any other props the chance to break through properly during that time.

He is a decent, honest player, but even at his peak five years ago he was miles behind every other six nations tighthead.

So while I thank him for service to his country, I am actually looking forward to seeing the scrummaging and dynamism of the Irish pack improving, simply be his long overdue replacement.

If Kidney is even considering him for the world cup, it shows just how every manager has weaknesses.

[AZOffaly]

Jaysus Wobbler, you have a real set against the Munster lads. O'Gara, O'Leary and Hayes have all been slated by you

Munster must be dog lucky to be competitive with weaklings like that around the place....

I do think Hayes is one of the worst scrummagers at tight head, but as Dinny says, Buckley is far worse.

Buckley is more dynamic around the loose, but Hayes is a monster at the lineout. His strength is immense there, and that will be missed when he goes. He is also first tackler a lot of the time around the rucks. Buckley is good for the odd big clearout defensively or offensively at ruck time, but his basics are far behind Hayes.

Hayes has been a fantastic servant for IReland and Munster, and is a sound man too. He'll be missed when he goes, but that time is obviously getting ever closer. Buckley needs to seriously get his act together, and Laurie Fisher at Munster is not the man to coach him. I wonder would the Claw come in there?

[thewobbler]

You're probably right AZ, there's a bias in there I can't get rid of.

The Munster are the greatest team ever sh1te really does rile me, and while I can appreciate the brilliance of some of their players over the past decade - POC, DOC, Wallace, Leamy and Quinlan in particular - I'd also think that in the shape of Foley, Stringer and O'Gara, they've produced the three most overrated and uninspiring recurring international players of the time.

Hayes falls somewhere in between - he has largely been the best tighthead of the decade in Ireland, but his number of average to poor games in a green shirt are now readily glossed over by the "great servant" and "bull of a man" stuff.

Last thing on him, his fans always bring this lineout stuff into the equation. I've never ever heard another prop being recommended for his lineout abilities. This creates a quandary for me. Either he is the greatest lineout lifter in the history of the game and should be feted as such, or maybe it's worth considering that the only people in the world who care so much about lineout lifting abilities tend to wear red shirts, are impossible to understand, and will furiously claim they were there when the All Blacks got beaten.

[Capt Pat]

That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Hayes did ok in the scrum considering the French and English scrums he has played against 20 times or more in the 6 nations. There was nobody else to pick. Buckley will be fine in future if he can get over the ranting and raving of critics like Wobbler he certainly won't be a step back.

[Dinny Breen]

That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Pass me a bucket

Buckley will be fine in future

No he won't, he's an awful scrummager period.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Bit harsh on the Bull there Wobbler. I can't think of any other realistic options at tight-head in the last decade. Paul Wallace was plagued by injuries when Hayes was starting off and both the Leinster and Ulster teams have had mostly foreign props during that period - BJ Botha, CJ Van Der Linde, Stan Wright, Will Green, Robbie Kempson. Court has played most of his rugby at loose-head over the last few years and Mike Ross is well down the pecking order at Leinster. Its a pity Buckley didn't go to Bath a few years ago because his game would have benefitted from playing week in, week out. I still think Timmy Ryan at Toulon could be the long term solution at three.

Good gritty performance yesterday. The defense was superb. To only miss one tackle over eighty minutes is some going. Huge improvement from Paris. Thought Geordie Murphy was excellent at full-back considering how little rugby he has played this season. Earls showed his promise with one or two great breaks. I hope the rumours of Riki Flutey going to Munster aren't true because I think he'll benefit hugely from nailing down a position in the centre.

[highorlow]

Was it just my brain / imagination or did I hear correct during the match yesterday one of our lads saying "english pricks" and it was heard on the TV?

Did anyone else here this and confirm that i did hear it?

It was in the first half, i'd say about a half hour into the game? I thought i was imagining it and then in the 2nd half you could hear the players clear enough through the ref's mic ....

[Capt Pat]

That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Pass me a bucket

[

Somebody  had an awful hard time of it the last 10 years with a very successful Munster rugby team. I meant collectively O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Leamy and Wallace and at international level O'Driscoll and Darcy in the mix as well.

When is Leamy coming back?