Shinty

[Pull Hard Hes No Relation]

Was over in Inverness last year with the Ulster U16 squad to play Scotland and everyone had a great time. When we were over they were actually playing the primary schools competition on the same day, great to see the kids keeping the game alive and a lot of people don't realise that the Shinty Assocaition get very little support from the Scottish government compared to soccor and rugby even though Shinty is the only uniquely Scottish field game played in the country.

We should be doing more to forge links with the our Scottish counterparts who play a game that as other posters have said here is similar to the "brand" of hurling played in Ulster at the end of the 19th century particularly in the likes of the Glens. This is where the GAA focus should be and not with those clowns in the AFL who are simply using the compromise rules to poach our best young talent.

Plans in place to bring the Scottish U17s across to Ulster later this year so if possible hurling people in the north at least should make an effort to support the venture when it takes place.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

a lot of people don't realise that the Shinty Assocaition get very little support from the Scottish government compared to soccor and rugby even though Shinty is the only uniquely Scottish field game played in the country.

We should be doing more to forge links with the our Scottish counterparts who play a game that as other posters have said here is similar to the "brand" of hurling played in Ulster at the end of the 19th century particularly in the likes of the Glens. This is where the GAA focus should be and not with those clowns in the AFL who are simply using the compromise rules to poach our best young talent.

Unfortunately Shinty like Scottish Gaelic has a hard time persuading some people in the big cities of Scotland that it deserves funding and support. More hopeful in recent times though that attitudes are changing. Agree that the GAA could do a lot more to forge links with Scotland but we all know the money is in the Aussie link and thats life. In truth this whole thing has gone in a bit of a cycle since the 1930's, at times the Irish were pushing hard for closer links (at one point they looked into unifying the rules of both sports which simply would not have worked) and at times the Scots were more for developing the relationship. Both seem to be broadly supportive thesedays. I do think that whilst its not lucrative that it is a good link for both associations and in particular as said above for younger players to go over and play in a neighbouring nation. As for poaching your best players we wouldnt mind DJ over here even if he's getting on a bit, no chance he would fancy a move over to Argyll?

Further bit of info on links between the two cultures there is an impressive carved grave stone in Donegal of a 15th century Scottish Gallaglach (Highland mercenaries who were hired by leaders in Ireland to fight in their battles). The gravestone of Manas MacMhoireasdain of Iona has a massive sword carved into it...and next to it a long caman (Shinty style) and ball. Also read an interesting extract in the book 'Camanachd' that an 1875 history of County Down claims the main sport in the area was "cammon, that is, the shinty of Scotland". The book also has accounts of winter hurling or common being played in 19th century Antrim and Tyrone and has an 1812 account from Holywood which reads "It is not confined to any sect, and Dissenters and Romanists seem to be equally attached to it". All interesting stuff and I would recommend the book to anybody who is interested in the roots of shinty and hurling.

[Gnevin]

long caman (Shinty style) and ball.

The Hurling stick was very much similar to the shinty in the early days, I've seen pictures of hurling teams in the past with very very long sticks

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Only 1 south player selected for Scotland, seems to have been a bit of a fallout somewhere because there are no Inveraray players in there and a few of their lads are way better than some of these guys.

Scott MacNeil (Fort William), Angus Morrison, Lachie Campbell, Neil MacDonald (all Lochaber), Norman Campbell (Newtonmore), Ally MacLeod (Kingussie), Angus MacKay (Lochcarron), Neil Robertson (Fort William), John Barr (Glenurquhart), Gary Innes, John MacDonald (both Fort William), Kenny Ross (Lochcarron), Danny MacRae (Newtonmore), Finlay MacRae (Kinlochshiel), Ronald Ross (Kingussie), James Clark, Gordie MacKinnon (both Fort William), John Stewart (Kilmallie), Hector Whitelaw (Bute).

North select team basically

Any word on the Irish squad?

[BennyHarp]

Excuse my ignorance on the Compromise rules game between shinty and hurling topic and i would like to be enlightened!

What is the pitch like? (size, goals etc) What equipment is used? Hurleys? Shinty sticks? (or whatever they're called?) What are the change in rules from hurling? Is it taken seriously? Is it worth going to watch?

[tayto]

Both sets of players use their own sticks. Hurlers cant take the ball into hand. i think there's only goals, no points?

Irish squad named
08 October 2007

The Irish panel to take on Scotland in the Shinty/Hurling international in Fort William on the 13th of October has been confirmed.

A couple of high profile players have been included such as Kilkenny's Martin Comerford and Joe Canning of Galway. The Tribesmen also have a second man in the panel in the form of goalkeeper James Skehill and after that all the players are made up of counties who compete at either Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard Cup level.

The full squad is:

MARK BRENNAN (CARLOW)
DOB 21.08.1984
Position: Full forward
Club: Naomh Bríd
GAA Achievements:
1 County Championship Hurling (Club)
2 Keogh Cups

JOE CANNING (GALWAY)
DOB 11.10.1988
Position: Forward
Club: Portumna
GAA Achievements:
Club All Ireland Championship
2 Minor All Ireland Championships
U.21 All Ireland Championships
1 Fitzgibbon Cup

MARTIN COMERFORD (KILKENNY)
DOB: 9.11.1978
Position: Forward
Club: O'Loughlin Gaels
GAA Achievements:
4 All Ireland Senior Hurling Championships
3 All Star Awards
4 National Hurling League
5 Leinster Senior Hurling C'Ship
1 Leinster Club C'ship
2 County Snr Hurling C'Ship
3 Walsh Cup
1 All Ireland Under 21 Hurling

BRIAN CONNAUGHTON (WESTMEATH)
DOB 9.09.1983
Position: Half Back
Club: Raharney
GAA Achievements:
2 Christy Ring
1 Senior Club C'ship
1 Under 21 All Ireland
1 Under 21 Club

DAVID CRIMMINS (MEATH)
DOB 20.01.1980
Position: Midfield
Club: Drumree
GAA Achievements:
Played Meath Senior
County Finals Jnr.A Jnr.B and Intermediate

EOIN DONNELLAN (LONGFORD)
DOB 1.04.1980
Position: Midfield
Club: Longford Slashers
GAA Achievements:
Division 3 League Winner with County
All Ireland Colleges "B" winner

JAMES DONNELLY (DONEGAL)
DOB 24.02.1984
Position: Half Back
Club: Mac Cumhaills
GAA Achievements:
1 Nicky Rackard
1 Railway Cup
1 Minor 'B' Hurling
2 Under 21 Hurling Shinty
1 Under 21 'B'
Under age Club Hurling & Football

AIDAN HEALY (KERRY)
DOB 22.02.1980
Position: Half Back
Club: Abbeydorney
GAA Achievements:
Christy Ring Award Winner
1 North Kerry League
Under age for Club & County

KEVIN HINPHEY (DERRY)
DOB: 17.11.1982
Position: Defence
Club: Kevin Lynch's
GAA Achievements:
Won 3 County Championships with club
Ulster Colleges titles
Played Railway Cup with Ulster
Nickey Rackard Cup Winner

MICHAEL KEAVENEY (ROSCOMMON)
DOB: 28.05.1980
Position: Full back
Club: Tremane
GAA Achievements:
Nicky Rackard Winner 2007
All Ireland Junior Winner 2001
Christy Ring Award Winner 2005
NHL Div. 3 Winner

PATRICK McARDLE (ARMAGH)
DOB: 26.04.1980
Position: Halfback
Club: Na Fianna
GAA Achievements:
1 Nicky Rackard
1 Division 3 National Hurling League
2 All Ireland Minor
1 All Ireland Junior
3 Snr Club Hurling C'ship
3 All Ireland Under 16

DARREN McCORMACK (WESTMEATH)
DOB: 29.07.1978
Position: Center back
Club: Castlepollard
GAA Achievements:
2 Christy Ring All Ireland
4 Senior Club Championships
Captain Shinty Team 2005

SEAN McCULLAGH (DERRY)
DOB: 02.08.1983
Position: Corner Back
Club: Banagher
GAA Achievements:
County Championship
National League

JONATHAN O'NEILL (WICKLOW)
DOB: 9.05.1975
Position: Midfield
Club: Glenealy
GAA Achievements
2 Division 2 National Hurling League
3 Keogh Cup
2 Intermediate Club Football C'ship
4 Club Hurling C'ship
1 Leinster Minor Football

MICHAEL O'NEILL (WICKLOW)
DOB 21.06.1970
Position: Full Back
Club: Glenealy
GAA Achievments:
2 National Hurling League
3 Snr Club Hurling (Cill Mhantáín)
1 Snr Club Hurling (BAC)
4 Keogh Cup
1 All Ireland 'B'
1 Hurling Shinty

DESMOND SHAW (CARLOW)
DOB 28.03.1984
Position: Corner Back
Club: Naomh Bríd
GAA Achievements:
1 Senior Club
3 Under 21 Club
1 Senior Hurling Shinty
2 Under 21 Hurling Shinty

PAUL SHERIDAN (CAVAN)
DOB 26.01.1982
Position: Half Forward
Club: Mullaghoran
GAA Achievements:
2005 Nickey Rackard Champion 15
7 County Championships with Club

JAMES SKEHILL (GALWAY)
DOB 22.02.1988
Position: Goalkeeper
Club: Cappataggle
GAA Achievements:
1 All Ireland Minor Championship
1 All Ireland Under 21 Championship
1 Fitzgibbon Cup Championship
2 All Ireland Vocational Schools Championships
2 All Ireland Under 16 Championships
©2007 Lynn Publications

[BennyHarp]

Cheers tayto!

Is it 15 a -side? Sounds a bit like hockey to me if they cant' pick the ball up and theres no points - or maybe thats shinty!

Does anyone know if the irish team is just a randomn selection of people put forward by the counties or was there a system of selection in place? I'm actually going to be in Scotland at the weekend and was wondering is it worth my while going out of my way to watch it! Not really bothered if its just going to be a bit of a shambles and not taken seriously!

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

There are points, the only difference in the scoring system between hurling and the compromise rules is that there 2 points for free hit from the ground over the bar. So 3 for a goal, 2 for a free hit from the ground over the bar and 1 for any other hit over the bar. I think this is a concession to Scotland given going for points isnt part of shinty.
Its 14 a-side I think, a compromise between shinty's 12 and hurling's 15. The no handling thing is necessary, not sure how the game would work if one side could handle the ball. Its nothing like hockey though

Its a weird match to watch to be honest, you can see its two teams trying to play different sports but it does normally end up being an interesting contest and a good day out.

All the squads, senior, u-21 and womens, are all here: http://www.shinty.com/news.htm

[tayto]

Jeez, dosent say much for my memory seeing as i couldn't remember there were points!!!! although in my defense i only saw a few minutes of it on TV a few years back. Lamh Dhearg Alba keep an eye out for Joe Canning, he's the next big thing to hit senior hurling and if it's points over the bar from the ground you're after he can hit them from the sideline from 40 yards.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Lamh Dhearg Alba keep an eye out for Joe Canning, he's the next big thing to hit senior hurling and if it's points over the bar from the ground you're after he can hit them from the sideline from 40 yards.

Is that the young lad who some felt was targeted with some rough tactics in the Galway Club Championship?
Im actually away on holiday tomorrow for a week so I wont get to the internationals. Hoping to see some highlights on TV when I return though.

[tayto]

That's the fella. He has massive potential.

Martin Comerford aint no slouch either. I'd expect to see either score heavily for Ireland.

[Aerlik]

LDA, I enjoy reading your contributions to this post as I'm interested in your game although I've yet to see one.  Is the Camanachd (excuse the spelling if incorrect) Association in any way linked to the Highland Games we are more "familiar" with?  If not has any attempt been made to unify the two groups for the overall promotion and betterment of them all just as the GAA has promoted our games, (except the Derry County Board who are all hurling haters )?

Also as I was going through the excellent photos on the site (note, I didn't steal any ) I tried to figure out the hand grip generally used.  Is it the same as golf, cricket and hockey with the left hand on top?  I noticed some players used the traditional "hurling" grip of right hand on top.

I hope to get my hands on one or two of the books you've mentioned.  I've seen really old photos of hurling teams in Derry and Antrim where the caman were very similar to the shinty caman shape, and there is a very old photo of a very young Christy Ring (the next biggest thing after Finn McCool and Cuchulainn) using a stick again shaped very similarly to a shinty caman.  Guinness produced a poster for the All Ireland series showing very old hurls again in that shape.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

LDA, I enjoy reading your contributions to this post as I'm interested in your game although I've yet to see one.  Is the Camanachd (excuse the spelling if incorrect) Association in any way linked to the Highland Games we are more "familiar" with?  If not has any attempt been made to unify the two groups for the overall promotion and betterment of them all just as the GAA has promoted our games, (except the Derry County Board who are all hurling haters )?

Also as I was going through the excellent photos on the site (note, I didn't steal any ) I tried to figure out the hand grip generally used.  Is it the same as golf, cricket and hockey with the left hand on top?  I noticed some players used the traditional "hurling" grip of right hand on top.

I hope to get my hands on one or two of the books you've mentioned.  I've seen really old photos of hurling teams in Derry and Antrim where the caman were very similar to the shinty caman shape, and there is a very old photo of a very young Christy Ring (the next biggest thing after Finn McCool and Cuchulainn) using a stick again shaped very similarly to a shinty caman.  Guinness produced a poster for the All Ireland series showing very old hurls again in that shape.

Not much of a link between shinty and Highland Games Aerlink. Traditional Highland Games (and there are still a few traditional ones) were pretty much just village sports days. They were mainly summer occasions with shinty in winter. Since shinty moved to a summer season a few years back some teams have organised league fixtures on the weekend of their local Highland Games and this has seen plenty of tourists come along and see shinty. Id say shinty though is the bread and butter sport of the region, Highland Games are more of a one off day in the summer and aimed thesedays greatly at tourists.

As for grip it depends on player and the shot being hit I suppose, have seen a number of different grips as you say. Some of the shinty lads are cracking golf players too due to a similar swing on some shinty shots.

Best shinty book for roots of game and links with Ireland is Camanachd by Roger Hutchison. Ive also read some really interesting stuff from Art O Maolfabhail, obviously more from the Irish angle.

Oh and Tayto there werent always points in the compromise rules games so maybe your memory isnt as bad as you thought At certain points they just played for goals. Points too these last few years though.

[theskull1]

Like Aerlik, I've really enjoyed reading this thread LDA. Many thanks for your contributions

Tell me this. How much would a shinty stick set you back? A good hurling stick ranges from £12 - £18 for a machine made and you can pay up £25 for hand made one. The shinty stick is lamanated if I'm not mistaken so I'd say they cost a few pound more, although would I be right in saying that you wouldn't go through to many sticks in a season?

[tayto]

Oh and Tayto there werent always points in the compromise rules games so maybe your memory isnt as bad as you thought At certain points they just played for goals. Points too these last few years though.

Oh thank god for that! i was just putting it down to having had a few pints on me at the time! 

very good thread. maybe you could keep us updated on the season in a shinty thread?