Will post this on the off chance anybody is interested. Camanachd Cup Final takes place tomorrow and is live on BBC 2 Scotland which is part of some satelite packages. Fort William v. Inveraray, throw up 2.30. Should be a decent game and maybe of interest to any hurling fans at a loose end tomorrow afternoon ;)
wouldnt mind watching a game out of interest, but i dont have bbc scotland ...
saw lacrosse recently on setanta, not all that great a game really, you seem to be able to walk as far as you like with the ball in yer net.
Quote from: tayto on September 21, 2007, 03:31:37 PM
wouldnt mind watching a game out of interest, but i dont have bbc scotland ...
saw lacrosse recently on setanta, not all that great a game really, you seem to be able to walk as far as you like with the ball in yer net.
Yep, I saw the adds and thought wow this looks good! watched a game and couldn't get into it! very strange how you can stroll around for as long as you want with the ball in your butterfly catcher thingy.
Plus for all the padding they wear it wasnt very physical.
Quote from: Punxsutawney Fergal on September 21, 2007, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: tayto on September 21, 2007, 03:31:37 PM
wouldnt mind watching a game out of interest, but i dont have bbc scotland ...
saw lacrosse recently on setanta, not all that great a game really, you seem to be able to walk as far as you like with the ball in yer net.
Yep, I saw the adds and thought wow this looks good! watched a game and couldn't get into it! very strange how you can stroll around for as long as you want with the ball in your butterfly catcher thingy.
Basically it's Hurling lite ,
Quote from: tayto on September 21, 2007, 03:31:37 PM
wouldnt mind watching a game out of interest, but i dont have bbc scotland ...
You can get it on the "add channels" on Sky if you have it.
I'm sure someone will put up the various "thingys" to get it??
A Láimh Dheirg - an mbeadh aon Gaidhlig le chloisint in eachtraí Chumann na Camanachd cosúil leis and cúpla focal a úsáidtear go minic in eachtraí CLG?
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2007, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: tayto on September 21, 2007, 03:31:37 PM
wouldnt mind watching a game out of interest, but i dont have bbc scotland ...
You can get it on the "add channels" on Sky if you have it.
I'm sure someone will put up the various "thingys" to get it??
A Láimh Dheirg - an mbeadh aon Gaidhlig le chloisint in eachtraí Chumann na Camanachd cosúil leis and cúpla focal a úsáidtear go minic in eachtraí CLG?
I can normally follow Irish to some extent rossfan but Im not totally sure about that one, guessing youre asking about Comunn na Camanachd's Gaelic policy in comparison to the GAA and Irish? The Camanachd Association arent generally as strong on Gaelic as the GAA are with Irish but things have picked up a bit in recent times and there will be a few Gaelic articles in the match programme tomorrow and a few of the club sides have their names on their jerseys and on club houses in Gaelic. There is also a weekly shinty highlights programme on TV in Gaelic (nice clip here http://youtube.com/watch?v=w3Lvqx-7NuA&mode=related&search= of Ronald Ross scoring a cracking goal).
A good few of the lads playing tomorrow will be involved in next months international match against Ireland.
BTW whats this talk about lacrosse, you cant be comparing shinty and lacrosse!
Jaysus, that's a peach of a gaol alright! the full back [?] didnt exactly cover himself in glory miscontrolling the ball in.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 21, 2007, 10:25:01 PM
BTW whats this talk about lacrosse, you cant be comparing shinty and lacrosse!
Sorry that was me, it's just another sport i'm not too familiar with.
Fort William 3 Inverary 1. Saw some of it - lively enough but 90 minutes seems too long.
How they ever manage to find a compromise rules between this and hurling I'll never know
Common root gnevin and I dont think the compromise is that hard to see, Same ancestor and same atmosphere albeit on smaller smale and the community feel of the two sports is obvious both sides of the sea. Im an Inbhir Aora man myself and we should of won that that game today but missed the chances and when the balaich eventually got the equaliser with 5 mins to go we let our guard down and conceded straight after, but thats that tha an cupa leis a' Ghearasdan. 1 win in the last 76 years :'(
That was a grate goal so it was!
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 23, 2007, 12:20:36 AM
Common root gnevin and I dont think the compromise is that hard to see, Same ancestor and same atmosphere albeit on smaller smale and the community feel of the two sports is obvious both sides of the sea. Im an Inbhir Aora man myself and we should of won that that game today but missed the chances and when the balaich eventually got the equaliser with 5 mins to go we let our guard down and conceded straight after, but thats that tha an cupa leis a' Ghearasdan. 1 win in the last 76 years :'(
I know the history , but its like playing a compromise between Rugby and American Football. The games are so different now that the common root is all but lost
Quoteof Ronald Ross scoring a cracking goal).
i played a good bit of shinty while at uni in scotland, and played against the scottish team in a compromise rules game before they went to play at croke. ronald ross was playing full forward, unbelievable player. he is like the dj of shinty. unfortunetly i was playing in goals. had a bad at the end of it.
Quote from: Gnevin on September 23, 2007, 01:45:55 PM
I know the history , but its like playing a compromise between Rugby and American Football. The games are so different now that the common root is all but lost
Its a fair point and its obvious when you watch the compromise rules that each team is playing a different sport. Ive enjoyed the compromise games Ive seen though and I still think its a link worth encouraging, gives lads from both countries a chance to play for their country and keeps a sporting link between the Gaels of Ireland and the Gaels of Scotland. From what I know those club sides on both sides who have developed links over the last 30 years or so have found it a rewarding experience.
As for Ronald Ross he is indeed some player, scored an incredible number of goals over the last decade or so and has been the deciding factor in an awful lot of key games.
Still with the Shinty connection. Has anyone heard the senior and U21 Ireland squads to take part in the internationals this year? They are being picked from the Ring & Rackard Cup counties and panels are limited to 17.
i no shane mcnaughton and arron fraffin from cushendall are training with the under 21 panel. think neil mcmanus declined due to involvement in senior championship but now we are out he may play
I understand these games will be live on BBC Scotland ( in November ??)
Quote from: Rossfan on September 25, 2007, 08:29:30 PM
I understand these games will be live on BBC Scotland ( in November ??)
The games are the weekend of October 13th/14th at An Aird in Fort William. Its the same time as the Mod (annual Gaelic festival) takes place in Fort William so should be a wee extra boost for the crowd from that and the pubs should also be very lively. Hadnt heard if the games were live on tv or not Rossfan, will try and confirm that.
how many shinty clubs are there roughly?
i was at a stag party in Fort Augustus over the summer and it was mad seeing all the young wan with the camans (sp?)
the stags nephew was coming to ireland to play in some tournament in rathoath for the scotland u 18s around the same time ( start of july)
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 25, 2007, 11:54:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 25, 2007, 08:29:30 PM
I understand these games will be live on BBC Scotland ( in November ??)
The games are the weekend of October 13th/14th at An Aird in Fort William. Its the same time as the Mod (annual Gaelic festival) takes place in Fort William so should be a wee extra boost for the crowd from that and the pubs should also be very lively. Hadnt heard if the games were live on tv or not Rossfan, will try and confirm that.
I'm sure I heard the lassie on BBC Scotland say at the end of the Cup Final programmes that there was live TV coverage on BBC.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2007, 07:54:19 PM
I'm sure I heard the lassie on BBC Scotland say at the end of the Cup Final programmes that there was live TV coverage on BBC.
Ah that will be right then. Thats good, they only had highlights at some crazy hour of the night last year. As for the question about shinty clubs Id say there are about 40 odd....league tables here http://www.shinty.com/leagues.htm although obviously there are quite a few reserve teams in there.
Just out of interest what would people say the general standard is of the team Ireland has picked for this game over the last few years?? I read a piece somewhere saying the lads that were picked were generally class players who suffer from being from counties who cant compete with the best. My own suspicion was though that if Ireland picked a team from Kilkenny/Cork/Limerick etc that they would hammer the select side from the weaker counties...would that be right?
Yes, yes it would be right to say that. There's some good players alright but not of the class that you'd get from a Kilkenny-Cork-Galway-Tipp etc selection.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it tomorrow.
40 clubs, So whats the approximate playing population? I must make a trip over to Allba for a match sometime. The compromise rules leave me a bit confused as to what Shinty is actually like, I'd be very interested to see it in full swing. Whats a good time to catch a match Lamh Dhearg? It's played on a club basis so? feck, i dont even know if there's provinces in Scotland, flaunting me ignorace wha!
Quote from: tayto on September 27, 2007, 01:21:35 AM
Yes, yes it would be right to say that. There's some good players alright but not of the class that you'd get from a Kilkenny-Cork-Galway-Tipp etc selection.
40 clubs, So whats the approximate playing population? I must make a trip over to Allba for a match sometime. The compromise rules leave me a bit confused as to what Shinty is actually like, I'd be very interested to see it in full swing. Whats a good time to catch a match Lamh Dhearg? It's played on a club basis so? feck, i dont even know if there's provinces in Scotland, flaunting me ignorace wha!
Cheers, thats what I thought. As for the shinty setup its bases on clubs, although Scotland has regions there is no equivalent of the county/provinicial setup in Ireland. Shinty has traditionally been organised on a North/South basis....the South being Argyll (basically the West Highlands up to Glencoe) and the few Lowland clubs, and the North being the rest of the Highlands bar Argyll. Clubs from the north and south traditionally play a different formation on the field. Its only 10 years since a 'national' premier league was formed and below that the rest of the leagues are still north and south. There is a North - South select match every year but there isnt really too much niggle and isnt comparable to the big club matches, its probably similar enough to the Railway Cup. The North pretty much win every year anyway, far more strength in depth in the north.
As for a good time to catch a game the season now runs from March - October (although it overruns every year). It was always August-June but they finally changed to 'summer shinty' 3 years ago. If you want to catch a game then one of the big finals is a good idea or else a derby like Kingussie - Newtonmore, the Old Firm of shinty ;D
Or if you cant be bothered coming over there are highlights on here http://www.bounci.tv/# then click on Bounc See in the left column.
Thanks for the info. Whats the historical background? I read the history of hurling years ago and apparently what we have now is what used to be summer hurling, winter hurling which is more or less gone, sounded more like shinty, I cant remember the exact details of the chapter, i must find the book again and get back to you. Not hard to see how golf derived in Scotland, stick + Goal not unlike ice hockey as well???
Quote from: tayto on September 27, 2007, 03:56:50 PM
Thanks for the info. Whats the historical background? I read the history of hurling years ago and apparently what we have now is what used to be summer hurling, winter hurling which is more or less gone, sounded more like shinty, I cant remember the exact details of the chapter, i must find the book again and get back to you. Not hard to see how golf derived in Scotland, stick + Goal not unlike ice hockey as well???
Yeah the histories Ive read on shinty and hurling suggest modern day shinty is more like the old winter hurling played in Ireland. Certainly in the Highlands they would play whenever but THE big game was at New Year when the men of the parishes would play a huge (up to 200 peopleP :o) shinty match and try drive the ball from one end of the 'playing field' to the other. As well as Camanachd the other Scots Gaelic word for Shinty is Iomain, to drive.
Some of the books also suggest winter hurling was tradiotionally the prevalent stick sport in the North of Ireland and was called something like camanacht, suggestion was the modern day hurling was something of an import to that part of Ireland. The book 'Camanachd' by Roger Hutchinson has a lot about the roots of both games if youre interested.
With ice-hockey there is speculation that it was Scottish Gaels who went over who started ice hockey but I know other sports also claim credit. Certainly evidence though of Scots playing shinty on ice in Canada and another fascinating fact is that Canadians still call an informal game of ice hockey or a game between kids on the street as a game of "shinny".
An another interesting fact is that a number of football clubs were originally shinty teams...believe it or not Nottingham Forest were originally a shinty team made of exiled Scottish Gaels ;D
I was thumbing through some book one time and it referred to a game called "commons" being played in the Northern half of Ireland in the 17 and 1800s.
I suspect the increased population and need to grow potatoes left little or no spare ground leading to this game dying out ??? In the Southern half of the Country there was better land and broader acres plus the landlords encouraged hurling at one time ( to stop lads getting up to other things?) so it remained reasonably strong till the GAA came to the rescue.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 28, 2007, 11:34:18 AM
Yeah the histories Ive read on shinty and hurling suggest modern day shinty is more like the old winter hurling played in Ireland. Certainly in the Highlands they would play whenever but THE big game was at New Year when the men of the parishes would play a huge (up to 200 peopleP :o) shinty match and try drive the ball from one end of the 'playing field' to the other. As well as Camanachd the other Scots Gaelic word for Shinty is Iomain, to drive.
Jaze, the connections between Gaelic Ireland and Scotland really were very close, tiomáin = drive : Iomáint = Hurling
Connections between Gaelic Ireland and Gaelic Scotland were very, very close the lads from Uladh set up a kingdom over their and in time they overtook the Picts as the leading group. We were so close that "Scots" to the Romans were in fact the Irish. The connections were only really severed in the wake of the plantation.
Was over in Inverness last year with the Ulster U16 squad to play Scotland and everyone had a great time. When we were over they were actually playing the primary schools competition on the same day, great to see the kids keeping the game alive and a lot of people don't realise that the Shinty Assocaition get very little support from the Scottish government compared to soccor and rugby even though Shinty is the only uniquely Scottish field game played in the country.
We should be doing more to forge links with the our Scottish counterparts who play a game that as other posters have said here is similar to the "brand" of hurling played in Ulster at the end of the 19th century particularly in the likes of the Glens. This is where the GAA focus should be and not with those clowns in the AFL who are simply using the compromise rules to poach our best young talent.
Plans in place to bring the Scottish U17s across to Ulster later this year so if possible hurling people in the north at least should make an effort to support the venture when it takes place.
Quote from: Pull Hard Hes No Relation on October 02, 2007, 05:33:42 PM
a lot of people don't realise that the Shinty Assocaition get very little support from the Scottish government compared to soccor and rugby even though Shinty is the only uniquely Scottish field game played in the country.
We should be doing more to forge links with the our Scottish counterparts who play a game that as other posters have said here is similar to the "brand" of hurling played in Ulster at the end of the 19th century particularly in the likes of the Glens. This is where the GAA focus should be and not with those clowns in the AFL who are simply using the compromise rules to poach our best young talent.
Unfortunately Shinty like Scottish Gaelic has a hard time persuading some people in the big cities of Scotland that it deserves funding and support. More hopeful in recent times though that attitudes are changing. Agree that the GAA could do a lot more to forge links with Scotland but we all know the money is in the Aussie link and thats life. In truth this whole thing has gone in a bit of a cycle since the 1930's, at times the Irish were pushing hard for closer links (at one point they looked into unifying the rules of both sports which simply would not have worked) and at times the Scots were more for developing the relationship. Both seem to be broadly supportive thesedays. I do think that whilst its not lucrative that it is a good link for both associations and in particular as said above for younger players to go over and play in a neighbouring nation. As for poaching your best players we wouldnt mind DJ over here even if he's getting on a bit, no chance he would fancy a move over to Argyll? ;)
Further bit of info on links between the two cultures there is an impressive carved grave stone in Donegal of a 15th century Scottish Gallaglach (Highland mercenaries who were hired by leaders in Ireland to fight in their battles). The gravestone of Manas MacMhoireasdain of Iona has a massive sword carved into it...and next to it a long caman (Shinty style) and ball. Also read an interesting extract in the book 'Camanachd' that an 1875 history of County Down claims the main sport in the area was "cammon, that is, the shinty of Scotland". The book also has accounts of winter hurling or common being played in 19th century Antrim and Tyrone and has an 1812 account from Holywood which reads "It is not confined to any sect, and Dissenters and Romanists seem to be equally attached to it". All interesting stuff and I would recommend the book to anybody who is interested in the roots of shinty and hurling.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 02, 2007, 10:42:10 PM
long caman (Shinty style) and ball.
The Hurling stick was very much similar to the shinty in the early days, I've seen pictures of hurling teams in the past with very very long sticks
Only 1 south player selected for Scotland, seems to have been a bit of a fallout somewhere because there are no Inveraray players in there and a few of their lads are way better than some of these guys.
Scott MacNeil (Fort William), Angus Morrison, Lachie Campbell, Neil MacDonald (all Lochaber), Norman Campbell (Newtonmore), Ally MacLeod (Kingussie), Angus MacKay (Lochcarron), Neil Robertson (Fort William), John Barr (Glenurquhart), Gary Innes, John MacDonald (both Fort William), Kenny Ross (Lochcarron), Danny MacRae (Newtonmore), Finlay MacRae (Kinlochshiel), Ronald Ross (Kingussie), James Clark, Gordie MacKinnon (both Fort William), John Stewart (Kilmallie), Hector Whitelaw (Bute).
North select team basically :o
Any word on the Irish squad?
Excuse my ignorance on the Compromise rules game between shinty and hurling topic and i would like to be enlightened!
What is the pitch like? (size, goals etc) What equipment is used? Hurleys? Shinty sticks? (or whatever they're called?) What are the change in rules from hurling? Is it taken seriously? Is it worth going to watch?
Both sets of players use their own sticks. Hurlers cant take the ball into hand. i think there's only goals, no points?
Irish squad named
08 October 2007
The Irish panel to take on Scotland in the Shinty/Hurling international in Fort William on the 13th of October has been confirmed.
A couple of high profile players have been included such as Kilkenny's Martin Comerford and Joe Canning of Galway. The Tribesmen also have a second man in the panel in the form of goalkeeper James Skehill and after that all the players are made up of counties who compete at either Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard Cup level.
The full squad is:
MARK BRENNAN (CARLOW)
DOB 21.08.1984
Position: Full forward
Club: Naomh Bríd
GAA Achievements:
1 County Championship Hurling (Club)
2 Keogh Cups
JOE CANNING (GALWAY)
DOB 11.10.1988
Position: Forward
Club: Portumna
GAA Achievements:
Club All Ireland Championship
2 Minor All Ireland Championships
U.21 All Ireland Championships
1 Fitzgibbon Cup
MARTIN COMERFORD (KILKENNY)
DOB: 9.11.1978
Position: Forward
Club: O'Loughlin Gaels
GAA Achievements:
4 All Ireland Senior Hurling Championships
3 All Star Awards
4 National Hurling League
5 Leinster Senior Hurling C'Ship
1 Leinster Club C'ship
2 County Snr Hurling C'Ship
3 Walsh Cup
1 All Ireland Under 21 Hurling
BRIAN CONNAUGHTON (WESTMEATH)
DOB 9.09.1983
Position: Half Back
Club: Raharney
GAA Achievements:
2 Christy Ring
1 Senior Club C'ship
1 Under 21 All Ireland
1 Under 21 Club
DAVID CRIMMINS (MEATH)
DOB 20.01.1980
Position: Midfield
Club: Drumree
GAA Achievements:
Played Meath Senior
County Finals Jnr.A Jnr.B and Intermediate
EOIN DONNELLAN (LONGFORD)
DOB 1.04.1980
Position: Midfield
Club: Longford Slashers
GAA Achievements:
Division 3 League Winner with County
All Ireland Colleges "B" winner
JAMES DONNELLY (DONEGAL)
DOB 24.02.1984
Position: Half Back
Club: Mac Cumhaills
GAA Achievements:
1 Nicky Rackard
1 Railway Cup
1 Minor 'B' Hurling
2 Under 21 Hurling Shinty
1 Under 21 'B'
Under age Club Hurling & Football
AIDAN HEALY (KERRY)
DOB 22.02.1980
Position: Half Back
Club: Abbeydorney
GAA Achievements:
Christy Ring Award Winner
1 North Kerry League
Under age for Club & County
KEVIN HINPHEY (DERRY)
DOB: 17.11.1982
Position: Defence
Club: Kevin Lynch's
GAA Achievements:
Won 3 County Championships with club
Ulster Colleges titles
Played Railway Cup with Ulster
Nickey Rackard Cup Winner
MICHAEL KEAVENEY (ROSCOMMON)
DOB: 28.05.1980
Position: Full back
Club: Tremane
GAA Achievements:
Nicky Rackard Winner 2007
All Ireland Junior Winner 2001
Christy Ring Award Winner 2005
NHL Div. 3 Winner
PATRICK McARDLE (ARMAGH)
DOB: 26.04.1980
Position: Halfback
Club: Na Fianna
GAA Achievements:
1 Nicky Rackard
1 Division 3 National Hurling League
2 All Ireland Minor
1 All Ireland Junior
3 Snr Club Hurling C'ship
3 All Ireland Under 16
DARREN McCORMACK (WESTMEATH)
DOB: 29.07.1978
Position: Center back
Club: Castlepollard
GAA Achievements:
2 Christy Ring All Ireland
4 Senior Club Championships
Captain Shinty Team 2005
SEAN McCULLAGH (DERRY)
DOB: 02.08.1983
Position: Corner Back
Club: Banagher
GAA Achievements:
County Championship
National League
JONATHAN O'NEILL (WICKLOW)
DOB: 9.05.1975
Position: Midfield
Club: Glenealy
GAA Achievements
2 Division 2 National Hurling League
3 Keogh Cup
2 Intermediate Club Football C'ship
4 Club Hurling C'ship
1 Leinster Minor Football
MICHAEL O'NEILL (WICKLOW)
DOB 21.06.1970
Position: Full Back
Club: Glenealy
GAA Achievments:
2 National Hurling League
3 Snr Club Hurling (Cill Mhantáín)
1 Snr Club Hurling (BAC)
4 Keogh Cup
1 All Ireland 'B'
1 Hurling Shinty
DESMOND SHAW (CARLOW)
DOB 28.03.1984
Position: Corner Back
Club: Naomh Bríd
GAA Achievements:
1 Senior Club
3 Under 21 Club
1 Senior Hurling Shinty
2 Under 21 Hurling Shinty
PAUL SHERIDAN (CAVAN)
DOB 26.01.1982
Position: Half Forward
Club: Mullaghoran
GAA Achievements:
2005 Nickey Rackard Champion 15
7 County Championships with Club
JAMES SKEHILL (GALWAY)
DOB 22.02.1988
Position: Goalkeeper
Club: Cappataggle
GAA Achievements:
1 All Ireland Minor Championship
1 All Ireland Under 21 Championship
1 Fitzgibbon Cup Championship
2 All Ireland Vocational Schools Championships
2 All Ireland Under 16 Championships
©2007 Lynn Publications
Cheers tayto!
Is it 15 a -side? Sounds a bit like hockey to me if they cant' pick the ball up and theres no points - or maybe thats shinty!
Does anyone know if the irish team is just a randomn selection of people put forward by the counties or was there a system of selection in place? I'm actually going to be in Scotland at the weekend and was wondering is it worth my while going out of my way to watch it! Not really bothered if its just going to be a bit of a shambles and not taken seriously!
There are points, the only difference in the scoring system between hurling and the compromise rules is that there 2 points for free hit from the ground over the bar. So 3 for a goal, 2 for a free hit from the ground over the bar and 1 for any other hit over the bar. I think this is a concession to Scotland given going for points isnt part of shinty.
Its 14 a-side I think, a compromise between shinty's 12 and hurling's 15. The no handling thing is necessary, not sure how the game would work if one side could handle the ball. Its nothing like hockey though ;D
Its a weird match to watch to be honest, you can see its two teams trying to play different sports but it does normally end up being an interesting contest and a good day out.
All the squads, senior, u-21 and womens, are all here: http://www.shinty.com/news.htm
Jeez, dosent say much for my memory seeing as i couldn't remember there were points!!!! although in my defense i only saw a few minutes of it on TV a few years back. Lamh Dhearg Alba keep an eye out for Joe Canning, he's the next big thing to hit senior hurling and if it's points over the bar from the ground you're after he can hit them from the sideline from 40 yards.
Quote from: tayto on October 08, 2007, 07:18:37 PM
Lamh Dhearg Alba keep an eye out for Joe Canning, he's the next big thing to hit senior hurling and if it's points over the bar from the ground you're after he can hit them from the sideline from 40 yards.
Is that the young lad who some felt was targeted with some rough tactics in the Galway Club Championship?
Im actually away on holiday tomorrow for a week so I wont get to the internationals. Hoping to see some highlights on TV when I return though.
That's the fella. He has massive potential.
Martin Comerford aint no slouch either. I'd expect to see either score heavily for Ireland.
LDA, I enjoy reading your contributions to this post as I'm interested in your game although I've yet to see one. Is the Camanachd (excuse the spelling if incorrect) Association in any way linked to the Highland Games we are more "familiar" with? If not has any attempt been made to unify the two groups for the overall promotion and betterment of them all just as the GAA has promoted our games, (except the Derry County Board who are all hurling haters >:( >:()?
Also as I was going through the excellent photos on the site (note, I didn't steal any ;)) I tried to figure out the hand grip generally used. Is it the same as golf, cricket and hockey with the left hand on top? I noticed some players used the traditional "hurling" grip of right hand on top.
I hope to get my hands on one or two of the books you've mentioned. I've seen really old photos of hurling teams in Derry and Antrim where the caman were very similar to the shinty caman shape, and there is a very old photo of a very young Christy Ring (the next biggest thing after Finn McCool and Cuchulainn) using a stick again shaped very similarly to a shinty caman. Guinness produced a poster for the All Ireland series showing very old hurls again in that shape.
Quote from: Aerlik on October 09, 2007, 04:04:46 PM
LDA, I enjoy reading your contributions to this post as I'm interested in your game although I've yet to see one. Is the Camanachd (excuse the spelling if incorrect) Association in any way linked to the Highland Games we are more "familiar" with? If not has any attempt been made to unify the two groups for the overall promotion and betterment of them all just as the GAA has promoted our games, (except the Derry County Board who are all hurling haters >:( >:()?
Also as I was going through the excellent photos on the site (note, I didn't steal any ;)) I tried to figure out the hand grip generally used. Is it the same as golf, cricket and hockey with the left hand on top? I noticed some players used the traditional "hurling" grip of right hand on top.
I hope to get my hands on one or two of the books you've mentioned. I've seen really old photos of hurling teams in Derry and Antrim where the caman were very similar to the shinty caman shape, and there is a very old photo of a very young Christy Ring (the next biggest thing after Finn McCool and Cuchulainn) using a stick again shaped very similarly to a shinty caman. Guinness produced a poster for the All Ireland series showing very old hurls again in that shape.
Not much of a link between shinty and Highland Games Aerlink. Traditional Highland Games (and there are still a few traditional ones) were pretty much just village sports days. They were mainly summer occasions with shinty in winter. Since shinty moved to a summer season a few years back some teams have organised league fixtures on the weekend of their local Highland Games and this has seen plenty of tourists come along and see shinty. Id say shinty though is the bread and butter sport of the region, Highland Games are more of a one off day in the summer and aimed thesedays greatly at tourists.
As for grip it depends on player and the shot being hit I suppose, have seen a number of different grips as you say. Some of the shinty lads are cracking golf players too due to a similar swing on some shinty shots.
Best shinty book for roots of game and links with Ireland is Camanachd by Roger Hutchison. Ive also read some really interesting stuff from Art O Maolfabhail, obviously more from the Irish angle.
Oh and Tayto there werent always points in the compromise rules games so maybe your memory isnt as bad as you thought :D At certain points they just played for goals. Points too these last few years though.
Like Aerlik, I've really enjoyed reading this thread LDA. Many thanks for your contributions
Tell me this. How much would a shinty stick set you back? A good hurling stick ranges from £12 - £18 for a machine made and you can pay up £25 for hand made one. The shinty stick is lamanated if I'm not mistaken so I'd say they cost a few pound more, although would I be right in saying that you wouldn't go through to many sticks in a season?
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 10, 2007, 01:27:57 AM
Oh and Tayto there werent always points in the compromise rules games so maybe your memory isnt as bad as you thought :D At certain points they just played for goals. Points too these last few years though.
Oh thank god for that! i was just putting it down to having had a few pints on me at the time! :P
very good thread. maybe you could keep us updated on the season in a shinty thread? ;D
Cheers folks. As Rossfan said at the start of the thread the senior game at the weekend is indeed live on bbc scotland (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/7038625.stm) which can be picked up on some sky packages.
As for the cost of a caman skull I think about 25/30 quid or thereabouts is about standard and you would hope not to break too many over a season. Ive noticed in the internationals that the Irish tend to get through a fair few sticks through the course of the game due to the shinty caman being a bit heavier.
There is mention of shinty in this months 4 4 2 soccer magazine, they call it a "stupid sport, an Irish sport which is a mix between Hurling and Hockey" :o ???
An é sin BBC 1 nó BBC 2 a Láimh??
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 11, 2007, 04:40:49 PM
There is mention of shinty in this months 4 4 2 soccer magazine, they call it a "stupid sport, an Irish sport which is a mix between Hurling and Hockey" :o ???
That is interesting, LDA. I've always been of the opinion that the (relatively) crude version of hurling played in north Antrim owes its origins to shinty, rather than hurling. What do you think?
http://www.uscamanachd.org/documents/MacLennan_Shintysplace.pdf
Good read for a slow Friday
I was looking at a few of them Shinty games there on Bounci. They look like a decent game to be honest. Is the caman shaped in such a way as to make the long ground strokes easier, i.e. is there some sort of curve on the bás?
The sideline 'cuts' and the initial throw in are a bit mad though, and what's the story with the goalies? They seem to have the same caman as the rest of the players, i..e not a big saucepan head like the hurling goalkeepers have. Seems like it would be very hard to save a shot with that. Do they have any special rules like can they handle the ball?
Also, is the ball very light? or is it similar to a sliothar?
I saw a bit of this on Saturday - Ireland well bet. Only Comerford of Kilkenny showed any threat in the bits i saw.
However the Irish were at a major disadvantage as you cant use hands while the Scots lads were in effect playing their own game with the added bonus of getting scores from hitting the ball over the bar.
Thier ground play -their natural game - was mmuch better than the Irish but their camáns were more suited to it.
I think it finished 4-10 to 1-6 with most of the Irish scores coming from frees.One Scots goal came from a free about 40 metres out and it was lucky nobody got in the way of it as they'd still be in Hospital. Talk about a bullet !!.
Didnt hear anything about the U21s as ther was no Irish media coverage at all. :( >:(
Just back from holiday and didnt see any of the games but got the scores on the shinty website. They just have the totals ie no goals and points but these were the final scores, senior Scotland 22 Ireland 11. U-21 Ireland 12 Scotland 1. Womens Scotland 6 Ireland 4. I heard the senior game wasnt much of a match at all and the crowd wasnt great either, think a lot of folk will have watched the Scotland - Ukraine soccer given it was a pretty important match.
Also saw this link on the shinty site, blog of a recent boys shinty team to Ireland, might be of interest to some posters http://keepingoutofthed.blogspot.com/2007/10/glenurquhart-high-school-in-dublin-and.html bit controversial at the start I suppose ;)
saffron sam - I wouldnt say the hurling of Antrim owes its roots to shinty rather than hurling but it does seem that the old winter hurling which was most prevalent in the North of Ireland was closer to shinty than it it was to hurling in its modern day form.
AZ Offaly, the caman is different for each area of the field. You can see it on this site which is selling camans.. http://www.scotland.on.ca/shinty.shtml
Ball would be similar to a sliothar.
"he has long been comfortable with the thought that shinty ,with its emphasis on the stick and only the stick, shorn of the catching and kicking that dominates the modern game of hurling-is the superior sport in every way."
Kicking dominates modern hurling? Thats news to me.
Ah Hurling has so much more to it then just ground hurling.
Thank god! ::) :P :P :P
Why is it some people are obsessed with trying to prove that their preferred sport is 'better' then another sport? When in fact it's just different, they may prefer the differences in their chosen sport but to say shinty is a better sport hen hurling is clearly nonsense.
Quote from: tayto on October 23, 2007, 11:01:09 AM
Why is it some people are obsessed with trying to prove that their preferred sport is 'better' then another sport? When in fact it's just different, they may prefer the differences in their chosen sport but to say shinty is a better sport hen hurling is clearly nonsense.
Fair point tayto and I agree with you but in fairness to the guy he's hardly alone, even on the different sections of this site you'll see people claiming Gaelic Football is better than soccer/rugby or rugby union is better than rugby league. You cant really make comparisons IMO (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all and I personally get a lot of tlachd watching shinty, hurling and Gaelic Football (and soccer)) so its not a surprise if some, rightly or wrongly, claim their sport is supreme. And as well as that I thought the guy had good points to make as regards the shinty/hurling link too.
My main point is for anybody who has played the new Gaelic Games: Hurling PS2 game.....worth getting? I know a few shinty folk who are tempted just cos its as close as they'll get to a Camanachd game - so is it worth buying?
Yea true enough i suppose, just feel it's written in quite an abrasive way, sher dosen't hockey concentrate on the stick as well and sher it's a bloody awful sport ...ops! there i go contradicting myself! ;D
havent played the game but the gaelic football version they brought out a couple of years ago got awful reviews so i'd imagine the hurling will be bad.
One of my friends form college was a shinty player when he used to live in the highlands. The bas is way heavier than even the hurling goalkeepers equivilent. You can get some distance and power from the ground if you get it right. Wouldnt want ot get in the way of a wild swing. We used to have our own compromise rules games out the back of the college, he made bits of me caman one time not leaving a scratch on the shinty stick.
PS I have the Hurling PS2 game, its pretty good, way better than the football, the players are too slow when they are running with the ball on the hurl and the goalkeepers are useless, but its great craic for a two player game, still lots of room for improvment.
PS a do, Nothin pisses me off more than people who feel the need to compare sports, I play american football and live in the town of Rugby in the UK, you can only imagine the amount of times i have to hear the same tired arguement "pussy's game, wearing pads, play rugby like a real man, blah blah blah...". My responce is always the same, " you think your so hard come down and play the game", and they never take me up on it, pack of wankers. i think rugby players have an inferiority complex or something. you never hear an american football player put down rugby, but i nearly always hear the opposite form rugby players. (sorry for going of topic :-[)
Just in case anybody is interested the Camanachd Cup Final is this Saturday and will be live on BBC2 Scotland which can be picked up through Sky. Fort William v. Kyles Athletic and a 1.45 throw up. Has the potential to be a good match. Fort going for 3 in a row but a few of their key men are getting on a bit now. Kyles one of the most succesful teams in the history of the sport but been in a low period for the past decade or so. Now got a good young team and will have a decent chance on Saturday.
Would there be anywhere on the net you could watch it? A fella i know from my University days in Glasgow, Grant Irvine plays for Kyles. They must have came on well then in the last few years as he'd always said they weren't that hot. Does Ronald Ross play for Fortwilliam?
Quote from: Whitehair on September 17, 2009, 11:21:13 AM
Would there be anywhere on the net you could watch it? A fella i know from my University days in Glasgow, Grant Irvine plays for Kyles. They must have came on well then in the last few years as he'd always said they weren't that hot. Does Ronald Ross play for Fortwilliam?
You wont get it live online but the game will be on the iplayer afterwards, I will post up a link on Sunday if you want. Grant Irvine is a good player. Kyles have really kicked on over the past couple of years. They have a couple of old lads from their last Camanachd Cup team in 94 and a load of younger boys who have now got a bit of experience and are doing well. Ronald Ross plays for Kingussie, Kyles put them out 4-3 in the semi. Kingussie werent happy as they were ahead 4-1 over Kyles with 25 minutes to go and the game was abandoned because of the weather, then Kyles did them in the replayed match.
Quote from: Whitehair on September 17, 2009, 11:21:13 AM
Would there be anywhere on the net you could watch it? A fella i know from my University days in Glasgow, Grant Irvine plays for Kyles. They must have came on well then in the last few years as he'd always said they weren't that hot. Does Ronald Ross play for Fortwilliam?
Whitehair, Grant also a friend of mine, he's the captain of the Kyles team this year. Only got promoted to the Premier Division this year and they are way over achieving with a very young squad this year (and a crowd of their players were on that bus of Rangers supporters who got swine flu at the last game of the SPL season!!)
Hello again LDA,
I'd be keen to hve a look at that link if you could post, please. Might even ayjamakate awheen a Scots men, 'gers fans among them, I know over here.
Quote from: the colonel on September 17, 2009, 03:57:02 PM
Quote from: Whitehair on September 17, 2009, 11:21:13 AM
Would there be anywhere on the net you could watch it? A fella i know from my University days in Glasgow, Grant Irvine plays for Kyles. They must have came on well then in the last few years as he'd always said they weren't that hot. Does Ronald Ross play for Fortwilliam?
Whitehair, Grant also a friend of mine, he's the captain of the Kyles team this year. Only got promoted to the Premier Division this year and they are way over achieving with a very young squad this year (and a crowd of their players were on that bus of Rangers supporters who got swine flu at the last game of the SPL season!!)
Aye Colonel sure Grant, RH and myself all started Caley together.
Whitehair you've a PM
As far as I know Ronald Ross plays for Kingussie...its pronounced even funnier than it looks!!
I presume it's pronounced as in its original Gaidhlig form. The anglicised spelling looks almost as daft as "Mweenish" for Maoinis. ::)
I was over on Sgaoi, Eilean a Cheo a few years ago and asked the woman in the local shop if there was any chance of seeing a shinty match and the next thing I knew I was on the team bus with the lads going to Glen Urqhart . An unforgettable day from the biscuit tin that made the rounds at half time to the many rounds after the match.
Watched the last 20 minutes..not bad entertainment. Good come back from kyles out of nowhere, but the old hand up front for fortwilliam showed a cool head when it counted
That Jim Clark must be around for 30 years at this stage :D
was a great game. Kyles unlucky to find themselves 3 nil down. Great come back but Jim Clark showed a bit of class at the end. I played against him in a compromise rules game a couple of years ago. was frightening up front as was Ronald Ross.
Kyles have a very young team and look good for the future.
2 keepers, 46 & 47 years old. thats madness!
Here's the link Aerlik http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00n0vz5/Shinty_Camanachd_Cup_2008/
Really good game. Thought the game was over at 3-0 but an incredible comeback by Kyles and at that stage they just needed an experienced head in the middle to steady things up and maybe just settle for the extra time. They continued to drive forward though and got caught out by Jim Clark against the run of play. As the colonel said its a young Kyles team and they will be back in the final. A number of the key Fort men are coming to the end of their careers and that might be the last final for a few of them.
anyone hear anything about the Ireland squads for the games next weekend in Inverness?
going up myself
They haven't been announced yet.
I asked Christy Cooney on Monday about it and he said they would be announced during the week - but still nothing stirring.
Heading along myself - it should be good fun - enjoyed the games last year when they were in Kilkenny.
Anyone know how long it takes by train from Inverness to Glasgow?
Im going for the weekend, it will be about 2-3 hours by train I would say. I know Neil McManus, Arron Graffin and Barry McFall of Antrim are all in the U21 squad
The train from Glasgow to Inverness is 3.5 hours. If you want to save some money take the megabus instead. Its not as comfy but it takes the same amount of time and is probably a third at least of the price.
Scotland squad below for what its worth. Pretty much a north select team this year.
Scott MacNeil (Fort William), Jamie Gannon (Skye Camanachd), Norman Campbell (Newtonmore), Scott Campbell (Newtonmore), Ian Macdonald (Bute), Alan Mackenzie (Lochcarron), John Barr (Glenurquhart), Angus Mackay (Lochcarron), Neil Robertson (Fort William), Niall MacPhee (Fort William), Finlay MacRae (Kinlochshiel), Paul MacArthur (Newtonmore), Shaun Nicolson (Lochaber), Ronald Ross (Kingussie), David Chayne (Newtomore), Gary Innes (Fort William, captain), Gilleasbuig MacDonald (Skye Camanachd), Eddie Tembo (Glenurquhart), Hector Whitelaw (Bute, vice-captain), John Stewart (Kilmallie)
from gaa.ie
Kilkenny's Tommy Walsh captains the senior Men's team with players from Antrim, Armagh, Carlow, Cork, Derry, Down, Kerry, Kildare, Laois, Meath and Offaly all numbered in the squad.
Barry McFall of Antrim is captain of the U21 side, which also has players from Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh, Kildare, Laois, Mayo, Meath, Roscommon Tyrone and Westmeath on board.
Players from Armagh, Carlow, Cavan, Kildare, Monaghan, Roscommon, Tyrone, Westmeath and Wicklow all feature on the Irish Women's panel, with Eddie Brady and Ger Moran manning the sidelines as Ireland look to end a run of three successive defeats against their Scottish counterparts.
The women's game begins at 12.15pm and is part of the Homecoming Shinty/Hurling Internationals that also include the U21s Scotland v Ireland Shinty/Hurling fixture (throw-in 10.45am) and the Colmcille Senior Men's International, also between Scotland and Ireland (2.10pm).
The Homecoming Internationals event is supported by EventScotland, Homecoming Scotland, Colmcille, Deuchars, Highland Council and Inverness Common Food Fund.
The Scotland squad, who are supported by Radical Travel, are looking to make it a fourth consecutive victory over the Irish in the annual fixture. Among the notable additions to the Scottish team this year include Beth MacDonald of Glengarry, winner of the player of the match award at the Valerie Fraser Camanachd Cup Final this year, who is earning her first cap.
GAA President Criostóir Ó Cuana on Friday wished the very best of luck to all players taking part.
Head coach of the Scotland Women's team, George Hay, commented "The Scotland Women's International team have been very successful over the last few years against committed and very skilful Irish teams.
"We are looking forward to what we believe will be another hard fought game with hopefully a positive result for the Scottish team. Women's Shinty has improved considerably since the International series began, increasing numbers of players and the raising of skill levels have been reflected in the largest turnout for the squad trials to date."
Ireland Men's Squad:
Paddy Mullaney (Goalkeeper) - Laois
Joe Bergin - Offaly
Steven Clynch - Meath
Kieran Divilly - Kildare
Shane Dooley - Offaly
John Griffin - Kerry
David Harney - Kildare
Gareth Johnston - Down
Shane Kavanagh - Carlow
David Kirby - Meath
John McIntosh - Antrim
Paul McCormack - Armagh
Sean McCullagh - Derry
Shane O'Neill - Cork
Paddy Richmond - Antrim
John Rogers - Carlow
John Rowney - Laois
Tommy Walsh (Captain) - Kilkenny
Irish U21 Squad:
Eoin Reilly (Goalkeeper) - Laois
Brian Aherne - Kildare
Ryan Bogue - Fermanagh
Jimmy Boyle - Meath
Andrew Collier - Laois
John Corvan - Armagh
Arron Graffin - Antrim
Conor Grogan - Tyrone
Eoin Madigan - Mayo
Robbie Jackson - Westmeath
Aidan Kelly - Tyrone
Pauric Keogh - Meath
Oisin McCloskey - Derry
Barry McFall (Captain) - Antrim
Neil McManus - Antrim
Mark Miley - Roscommon
Ger Murphy - Meath
John Prior - Laois
Ireland Women's Squad:
Rosie Crowe - Cavan
Lorraine Day - Cavan
Maggie McBride - Cavan
Niamh Connolly - Roscommon
Ann-Marie Doran - Wicklow
Karen Walsh - Wicklow
Pamela Greville - Westmeath
Sandra Greville - Westmeath
Bernie Murray - Armagh
Colette McSorley - Armagh
Roisin McKenna - Monaghan
Sharon McQuillan - Monaghan
Valerie Crean - Carlow
Margaret Coady - Carlow
Roisin O'Connell - Kildare
Niamh Breen - Kidare
Caroline Connaughton - Roscommon
Claire Curley - Roscommon
Aishling Corr - Tyrone
Eddie Brady - Manager
Ger Moran - Manager
Scotland Women'sSquad:
Elaine Cameron - Glengarry
Yvonne Conaughton - Tir Conaill Harps
Sarah Corrigal - Glengarry
Orla Coughlan - Tir Conaill Harps
Kirsty Deans - Badenoch & Strathspey
Hilda Dooley - Tir Conaill Harps
Katie Drain - Glasgow Mid Argyll
Stephanie Dunstaffnage - Glenorchy
Joanne Gillanders - Glengarry
Marian Holohan - Tir Conaill Harps
Beth MacDonald - Glengarry
Laura MacKay - Glengarry (Captain)
Fiona Mathie - Tir Conaill Harps
Laura McCafferty - Glasgow Mid Argyll
Kirsten Munro - Glasgow Mid Argyll
Katie Myerscough - Glasgow Mid Argyll
Jane Nicol - Badenoch & Strathspey
Lisa Norman - Glasgow Mid Argyll
Katy Smith - Forth
Elaine Wink - Glengarry
Reserves:
Aisling Gribbon - Tir Conaill Harps
Jeanette McGregor Badenoch & Strathspey
George Hay - Head Coach
James Perlich - Trainer
Notes:
- This year's Scotland v Ireland Shinty/Hurling Internationals take place at Bught Park in Inverness on Saturday 31st October, with the fixtures starting from 10.45am. Tickets are £10 for adults, £5 for concessions and entry for Under 12s is free. Tickets are available via http://www.shinty.com/
- The game is being broadcast live on BBC2 Scotland from 2pm.
- TG4 has confirmed that the station will broadcast the Senior Shinty/Hurling International between Ireland and Scotland from Bught Park, Inverness on Saturday afternoon 31 October. The match will be shown in full on a deferred basis with broadcast coverage starting on TG4 at 5pm.
Great to see that most enthusiastic and versatile of sportsmen and a dual All Ireland winner Markeen Miley getting an International call up.
Best of luck to him and the Ros girleens as well. Hope ye do ye're County proud over there among our Scottish cousins.
Was at the Bught Park today for the senior game, an exciting match. Scotland started well and were getting plenty of low passes into Ross and Whitelaw in the forwards, think it was 7-1 after about 20 minutes. Ireland got a foothold in the game though and Walsh got a real inspirational point and it was back to 8-6 at half time. Second half was dominated by Ireland and they were 11-8 ahead going into the last few minutes. Scotland levelled it but fair play to the Irish they kept going and the full forward got an excellent goal. There was still time for an almighty scramble and Scotland penalty claim but it finished 14-11.
Thought Ireland deserved it and the big lad Johnstone from Down was particularly impressive. He got a nasty facial wound near the end but saw him afterwards and he seemed arite. Walsh showed his class and O' Neill from Cork was named as Sar-Chluicheadar.
Its always a bit of a strange one with the two teams playing different sports but it was close and hard fought and played in a good spirit in the main. It was a bit tousy in the closing stages right enough but the teams seemed to have made up by the time of the presentation and no doubt even more so after the dinner ;D.
Ireland won the womens game 8-0 and the u-21 match 11-10.
Just after watching it on TG4 there, first time seeing a game and it was decent enough. It does seems like the two sports are right on the edge of compatibility though. Was definitely a penalty at the end, unless there's some rule I'm unaware of that allows a keeper to take down a forward without touching the ball :D
I was thoroughly entertained by it and I'm looking forward to next year already. Great to see lads from Meath, Laois, Armagh, Kerry and the like performing very well. Thought it was played in a great spirit as well and a complete contrast to the spitefest that the football equivalent with the Australian boors annually became.
Saw the second half on Scottish BBC and enjoyed it. The last few minutes were hectic and they should have got a penalty.
It was funny listening to the 2 lackadiaisical Scottish commentators continually refer to our big no 8 (Johnston?) as Tommy Walsh. He was the size of about 3 Tommys :D
I saw later on TG4 that Tommy was given as no 8 on the team lineups on screen.
A c lean sweep for Ireland today winning all 3.
A Láimh ...did Mark Miley feature in the U 21?
I was at the games, currently in the team hotel. Mark featured for the Under 21's alright - it's fair to say there were very few weak links on the three teams. Superb wins. I'm going to try and get the camogie and u21's games on DVD - so if anyone wants it drop me a PM and i'll see what I can do
LDA, are the girls from Tir Connaill Harps shinty or camogie players?
Quote from: Aerlik on October 31, 2009, 10:23:06 PM
LDA, are the girls from Tir Connaill Harps shinty or camogie players?
Both Aerlik. As far as I know there is no camogie league in Scotland so when the Tir Connail Harps club got a womens team together they decided to enter the womens shinty leagues. Think they enter camogie tournaments too when they get the chance.
Thats it on the iplayer now, bit of a stonewall penalty at the end right enough ;D. But the better team won no doubt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nv9n2/Shinty_Hurling_International_2009/
Catch yourselves on boys!
Watching it now, enjoying it. Pity someone couldn't point out to the commentators that Tommy Walsh was number 18.
was up in inverness for the weekend. all 3 games were great and some tough challenges in all games. really ment alot more for the irish lads to get a win this year in the 21's and seniors. plenty of craic was had between all sets of teams
Spotted this while nosing around.
Hope they enjoy the trip and their day in Croke Park.
Glasgow Select International Shinty/Hurling Tour
Shinty players from Meadowburn Primary School (PS), Bishopbriggs (comprimising Gaelic speakers) and St Joseph's PS, Milngavie, supported by Meadowburn Shinty Club and Milngavie and Bearsden Shinty Club are travelling to Northern Ireland to play in a combined rules Shinty/Hurling International match on Saturday 4th September.
Their opponents are a Northern Irish Select hurling team made up of children from Edenbrooke PS and Glenwood PS from the Shankhill Road and St Paul's PS and St Kevin's PS from the Falls Road in Belfast.
The match is part of the Falls-Shankhill Project aimed at encouraging cross community participation in Gaelic sports and challenging sectarianism.
This is a return match with Scotland winning 6 – 3 in Glasgow when the Northern Irish visited in June.
The players and coaches have also been invited to attend the All Ireland Hurling final at Croke Park, Dublin as guests of the GAA.
Was reading about the trip in the paper Rossfan, appears to have been a success.
The Camanachd Cup Final is on tomorrow if anybody is interested, will be live on BBC2 Scotland through Sky from the back of 2. A lot of people were predicting (and hoping for) a Kyles v. Inveraray final before the semi's but it was the old guard of Fort William and Kingussie who made it through. Kingussie actually have a lot of younger lads this year but as always everything will depend on how closely the Fort can keep Ronald Ross in check.
Unlikely however to be anything tomorrow as crazy as this match winning save from the Bailemore Cup final earlier in the summer ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcRwbuSoGyc
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 17, 2010, 04:45:27 PM
Was reading about the trip in the paper Rossfan, appears to have been a success.
The Camanachd Cup Final is on tomorrow if anybody is interested, will be live on BBC2 Scotland through Sky from the back of 2. A lot of people were predicting (and hoping for) a Kyles v. Inveraray final before the semi's but it was the old guard of Fort William and Kingussie who made it through. Kingussie actually have a lot of younger lads this year but as always everything will depend on how closely the Fort can keep Ronald Ross in check.
Cheers for the heads-up, might check it out
Does anyone know when trials are on and who is invited to them? Who is manager this season?
Squad has already been picked, trials were over last number of weeks. Drew McNeil is senior coach
Fort William ( An Gearasdan) won the Camanachd Cup 3 - 2 with the winning goal a minute or two from the end.
It was a much better match than I had expected, some really good goals with the late winner the pick of them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tyt2g/Shinty_Camanachd_Cup_2010/
There was talk a while back that they were looking to play the internationals over two weekends this year, home and away, anybody heard anything definitive on that?
Didnt think it was too great myself LDA. The winner is a cracker, although Innes seems fair arrogant anytime he's on tv and himself and Inglis had a good wee barney before the game about the 200 final.
Yeah the first international is at Croke Park on the 31st October and the second game at Bught Park on November 14th. Although I think it is only senior game in Inverness. Scotland's U21's and womens both due to go to Ireland, Senior game probably due to go down as aggregate score like the Aussie Rules
Cheers Colonel. Thats good news about the home and away aspect as I should be able to get to the game at the Bught. Take it the game in Croker is a tie in the with the football - aussie rules match? Should mean they get a decent crowd in.
I wasn't expecting too much from the game on Saturday given the teams have met so often and the games haven't always been classics, so from that perspective I was pleasantly surprised. The way Innes set up the Fort's second was superb as was his finish for the winner, and both Kingussie goals were impressive too. Innes can certainly come across as arrogant but he's actually a decent guy, he doesn't take himself too seriously really. Dont think Fraser Inglis was too impressed with him before the match right enough though :D. Thought young Lee Bain had a brilliant game on sumo Clark on Saturday, he is sure to be in the Scotland squad for the international.
Yeah I imagine it is before the aussie rules game. Was speaking to one of the kyles lads and the squad has been announced, they have 2 in the squad.
Big clarke didn't get the service needed which is within 5 yards from him. At the other end Ronald Ross was marked out of the game by smart tactics rather than dirt. More satidfying way to win. Conditions didn't help on the day, and a wet day will suit scotland in the international games
http://www.shinty.com/news/scotland-senior-squad-announced/
any idea of anyone going to be selected in the Ireland Squad for this?
2010 Irish Hurling/Shinty panels announced
26 October 2010
Joe Dooley and Michael Walsh, managers of the Irish Senior and U21 Hurling/Shinty teams respectively, announced their panels today for the 2010 matches between Ireland and Scotland.
The first test of a two-test senior series takes place at 4.45pm in Croke Park, this coming Saturday October 30 as a curtain raiser to the second test of the Irish Daily Mail International Rules Series. The second Hurling/Shinty test takes place in Inverness, Scotland on Saturday, November 13.
The U21 game is scheduled for 1.00pm, Saturday October 30 at Ratoath GAA Club.
The senior panel is as follows:
Captain: Tommy Walsh Kilkenny
• Paul Dermody Kildare ***
• Stephen Clynch Meath
• Shane Dooley Offaly
• Aaron Graffin Antrim
• Willie Hyland Laois
• Gareth Johnston Down
• Darren McCormack Westmeath
• Paul McCormack Armagh
• Barry McFall Antrim
• Patrick Horgan Cork
• Neil McManus Antrim
• Tom Murnane Kerry
• Brendan Murtagh Westmeath
• Eoin Nolan Carlow
• Andrew O'Brien Wicklow
• John Rowney Laois
• Jackie Tyrrell Kilkenny
*** Goalkeeper
The U21 panel is as follows:
Captain: Eoin Reilly Laois***
• Ryan Bogue Fermanagh
• Andrew Collier Laois
• Nathan Curry Armagh
• Cormac Donnelly Antrim
• Noel Connors Waterford
• David Fitzelle Kerry
• Neil Heffernan Meath
• Eddie Kane Carlow
• Peter Kane Wicklow
• Keith Keoghan Meath
• Kieran McKiernan Armagh
• Shea McKiver Tyrone
• Christopher Murray Laois
• Shane Nolan Kerry
• Dara O'Connell Kerry
• Adrian Royle Kerry
• Micheál Ryan Carlow
*** Goalkeeper
"The games last year in Scotland were fantastic spectacles and drew very favourable comment from television viewers after being screened in Ireland. The series provides our hurlers with a chance to wear an Irish jersey and I know this is something they value greatly" said Criostóir Ó Cuana Uachtarán Chumann Lúthchleas Gael. "I also know that a number of clubs have forged links with their Scottish counterparts and this is something we encourage. I would also like to welcome our Scottish visitors and wish both teams every success".
Similar Irish squad to last year? Anybody know if there will be any kind of TV coverage of it? BBC Scotland normally do a highlights programme but no sign of it in the schedule this year, wouldnt be surprised if they just show a minute or two before the second match. Good luck to all the teams anyway and hopefully we get 3 close well fought games.
Apparently there is coverage on bbc alba on monday nite
good first half, shane dooley looking like our only forward, Scotland are starting to get a grip on the game after a slow start
Some goal by Scotland. Irish keeper having a blinder, he must have balls of steel in fairness because some of the efforts by scotland have been like bullets. Far more enjoyable than last weeks Austrailia Ireland game.
And Ireland with a great goal just before the half time whistle.
Ireland 2-5
Scotland 2-7
Some nice touches in it. The fact that you cant kick or catch it brings out the other skills. Nice bit of ground hurling too, fair enough a few wild swings that are off the mark.
pity they couldnt bring over a commentator over from BBC Alba, Scots gaelic is still understandable for more Irish Gaelgeoirs.
Lucky to be only down by 1 at the end. Scots were much better at creating chances. sets up the away leg nicely. Hopefully BBC alba will cover it. I think its on in 2 weeks time.
The two points for a free off the ground makes a bit of a bags of it, I think. Enjoyable viewing, though.
What does the Irish jersey look like? is it the same as the football jersey?
Yeah think it was the same.
Exact same jersey Aerlik - even had the International rules logo on it at the bottom!
What are the chances of the Irish team picking lads from the stronger counties and how much of a difference would this make? would they tank the scots?
Dunno if they would or not, but it's supposed to be aimed at getting everyone to play. Tommy Walsh comes from a fairly strong county :D
I think it's that they didn't want to load it up with Tipp and Kilkenny lads. Let lads from Westmeath, Kerry et al play.
they picked a very strong side when they played in Croker about 10 or so years back. I remember DJ was captain.
Ireland hockeyed the Scots. Picking the majority from weaker counties was as much about giving the Scots a chance as well as allowing lads from weaker counties the chance to play.
I played one of these compromise games myself back in the day (my club side - intermediate at the time - played the Scotland under-17s). We thought we'd hammer them, seeing as they were only kids and all. We did beat them, but only just. Its quite something just how far they can drive the ball. And its not random either - they'll drive it every time.
Shinty is a fairly boring sport to watch in general. The compromise game (particularly the second half) was very entertaining I thought.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on November 01, 2010, 04:51:36 PM
they picked a very strong side when they played in Croker about 10 or so years back. I remember DJ was captain.
Ireland hockeyed the Scots. Picking the majority from weaker counties was as much about giving the Scots a chance as well as allowing lads from weaker counties the chance to play.
I played one of these compromise games myself back in the day (my club side - intermediate at the time - played the Scotland under-17s). We thought we'd hammer them, seeing as they were only kids and all. We did beat them, but only just. Its quite something just how far they can drive the ball. And its not random either - they'll drive it every time.
Shinty is a fairly boring sport to watch in general. The compromise game (particularly the second half) was very entertaining I thought.
There was one year (Im pretty sure it was the last time they played it as part of a double header with the Aussie Rules match and bizarrely used the same scoring system for the shinty-hurling resulting in a massive score) when Ireland won very easily with a strong team but throughout the 90's there were strong Irish teams who lost to Scotland. I'm not convinced Ireland with the best 15 hurling players would win as easily as you suggest.
Would disagree that shinty is a boring sport to watch too but clearly beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;).
Highlights on bbc alba tonight
There was a picture in Irish news that struck me, the Irish player was 'tooled up' with shin pads and a helmet and the 2 scots lads had naff all apart from a stick, rawer men than the Irish perhaps
What about the rule for hurlers having to wear helmets as a directive from HQ, i take it that it doesn't apply to shinty or just to the Irish players
(believe it or not I hurled for 4 years, you wouldn't think it listening to the questions I have on this game!)
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 01, 2010, 07:03:55 PM
There was one year (Im pretty sure it was the last time they played it as part of a double header with the Aussie Rules match and bizarrely used the same scoring system for the shinty-hurling resulting in a massive score) when Ireland won very easily with a strong team but throughout the 90's there were strong Irish teams who lost to Scotland. I'm not convinced Ireland with the best 15 hurling players would win as easily as you suggest.
Would disagree that shinty is a boring sport to watch too but clearly beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;).
I had a quick look for the team lineup that year and couldn't find it. I do recall it was the strongest ever team Ireland fielded for one of these games, and that as a contest it was a non-event.
I don't know if Scotland had the pick of their bunch on saturday, but given a team largely made up of division 2 and 3 players came within a point, its hard to imagine that Ireland's best team wouldn't hammer the Scots. But, as I said, perhaps they have a wealth of talent that didn't travel over.
What I found most boring about Shinty was the fact that there are only goals and no points. That makes it too like soccer in my book. Perhaps my opinion is too flavoured by a lifetime watching hurling where scoring is typically frequent. The skills of Shinty are beyond doubt - introduce points and then there would be a game worth getting excited about. In my humble opinion of course.
Quote from: Banana Man on November 02, 2010, 08:41:41 AM
What about the rule for hurlers having to wear helmets as a directive from HQ, i take it that it doesn't apply to shinty or just to the Irish players
that rule was introduced as a kind of insurance measure (though the GAA did make a balls of it). Basically, you sustain a head injury while not wearing an 'approved' helmet, you can't claim medical costs from your insurance (which is usually part of your club subscription cost - though I'm sure county players can claim via alternative means available to county panels).
So, no, the rule wouldn't apply to the Scots, unless they specifically made it a requirement for the compromise series.
Caught this on BBC Alba last night, enjoyable enough, a lot of the Scots are handy golfers I'd say, the groundsman must have been tearing his hair out watching them though...
thanks for that bottle thrower
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on November 02, 2010, 09:34:24 AM
I had a quick look for the team lineup that year and couldn't find it. I do recall it was the strongest ever team Ireland fielded for one of these games, and that as a contest it was a non-event.
I don't know if Scotland had the pick of their bunch on saturday, but given a team largely made up of division 2 and 3 players came within a point, its hard to imagine that Ireland's best team wouldn't hammer the Scots. But, as I said, perhaps they have a wealth of talent that didn't travel over.
What I found most boring about Shinty was the fact that there are only goals and no points. That makes it too like soccer in my book. Perhaps my opinion is too flavoured by a lifetime watching hurling where scoring is typically frequent. The skills of Shinty are beyond doubt - introduce points and then there would be a game worth getting excited about. In my humble opinion of course.
I remember the game, like I said they used the Aussie Rules scoring system and it ended up something daft like 57-32. In the 90's however there were a few years when the Irish fielded strong teams who lost to Scotland.
The Scottish team would have been fairly strong. Not the best 12 players perhaps but arguably the best 2 at the moment in Gary Innes and Ronald Ross and a good mix of Premier League and North Division 1 players. The comparison isn't ideal though given the huge difference in the number of players each sport is drawing from, there are probably roughly the same number of hurling clubs in Kilkenny as there are shinty clubs in Scotland. The strength in depth in hurling will be far greater than in shinty.
I'm not even totally convinced fielding the best Hurling 15 would make a massive of difference though as it's not hurling! They are still going to have the same issues with the Scots playing on the ground and being unable to lift the ball. The best hurling 15 would no doubt hammer the Irish team at hurling but I wouldn't say it was a given they would do significantly better in shinty-hurling. The year of the strange scoring system is the only year I recall in which either team won easily, the games have invariably been nip and tuck regardless of the relative strength of each time in shinty and hurling terms.
As for adding points to shinty it obviously wouldn't seem natural for anybody from a shinty background. I take your point ( :-X) about how hurling fans who are so used to lots of scores would be in favour but at the same time I know a few people over here who have said they couldn't get into hurling and football due to the frequency of the scores, that it devalued things a bit to have so many scores. I don't agree with that argument but it shows people tend to go with what they are used to. Also the Irish manager said after the game how easy it was for the Scots to drive a dead ball over the bar from distance, I don't think it would add much if players were always sticking it over the bar in shinty rather than concentrating on goals as has always been the case. Points in shinty just seems like a foreign concept. If you were at a good game of shinty I don't think you would be bored or would find the lack of points to be an issue. After all, why reward a player for missing the target? :P
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 02, 2010, 02:50:53 PM
As for adding points to shinty it obviously wouldn't seem natural for anybody from a shinty background. I take your point ( :-X) about how hurling fans who are so used to lots of scores would be in favour but at the same time I know a few people over here who have said they couldn't get into hurling and football due to the frequency of the scores, that it devalued things a bit to have so many scores. I don't agree with that argument but it shows people tend to go with what they are used to. Also the Irish manager said after the game how easy it was for the Scots to drive a dead ball over the bar from distance, I don't think it would add much if players were always sticking it over the bar in shinty rather than concentrating on goals as has always been the case. Points in shinty just seems like a foreign concept. If you were at a good game of shinty I don't think you would be bored or would find the lack of points to be an issue. After all, why reward a player for missing the target? :P
good points (no pun intended!), and well made. You're dead right of course, it does come down to what you're used to.
If the compromise tended one step further towards Shinty in the manner of scoring (ie: goals-only, no points), then I would see any Ireland team struggling. What was noticeable on saturday was Ireland's relative inability to create clear-cut goal-scoring chances. There were a couple of half-chances, sure, but did the keeper even have to make a save really? Contrast that to Dermody in the Ireland goals turning in a heroic performance.
The Scotland squad was probably as good as it gets for the compromise rules game. I know one of the coaches quite well and he said they have picked the players best suited to the compromise game rather than their best shinty players. Alot of their players can't grasp the concept on the hurling style. They held trials over a couple of months so they were able to take a look at everyone.
I will fancy Ireland to win as they finished the game stronger and that experience for those who had never played the compromise before will benefit them hugely the next day
When's the 2nd test? Poorly marketed IMO
saturday week. I'm sure TG4 will cover it live.
thank god for tg4!
Sat 13th Nov, Bught Park Inverness. 2pm throw in
Was reading today about the stupid scoring system they are using over the two legs. Rather than going with an aggregate score the winners of each tie recieve 2 points with a further 1 point awarded for every 2 goals scored. So Scotland go into the 2nd leg leading 3-1. Who knows which f*cking idiot dreamed that up ??? ???
It's to make the second leg mean something. Had either team won by a big margin the last day, yesterday's game would have meant nothing
Quote from: laoisgaa on November 14, 2010, 09:56:43 PM
It's to make the second leg mean something. Had either team won by a big margin the last day, yesterday's game would have meant nothing
Perhaps but the games have pretty much always been very tight and there was no need to further complicate the scoring system by adding these daft rules. I didn't make it along to the game on Saturday but have heard from a number of people who did that there was a lot of confusion on the day as to who was ahead due to this system. The final score at the Bught was Scotland 3-7 Ireland 5-6. Over the two games that gave Ireland an aggregate win of 7-21 to 5-23. Or 5-4 under the system used this year ???
i swear to f**k lads i was reading the match report in the IN today and you would need a good 4 attempts to read the scoring system and aggregate setoff etc, does it really need to be that complicated to get it to mean something???
also was there not a swedish team involved in a shinty international as well a few years back, i would near swear on it, anyone remember that?
Just to flag up to anybody who may be interested that the Camanachd Cup Final is this Saturday at 2.30 and will be on live on BBC 2 Scotland (which you can pick up through SKY). Should be quite a game between the oldest rivals in the sport, Kingussie and Newtonmore. Just 3 miles between the towns and they aren't too fond of each other. They haven't played in the final since 1997 and Newtonmore got the biggest hammering in the history of the final that year (12-1) so they will be very determined to get some revenge. They haven't won the cup since 1986 either which is a long time given they are the most succesful team overall in the history of shinty. Kingussie aren't the force they were but they have some good young players coming through and still do well in the big occasions. Rumoured also that Ronald Ross is to retire after this match so that will give Kingussie extra motivation to win the cup for him.
Edit - it was a great game!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b014tk1p/Shinty_Camanachd_Cup_2011_Newtonmore_v_Kingussie/
Do any GAABoard posters know of a GAA-friendly pub in London that has TG4 and'll be showing the Shinty-Hurling international?
And does anybody else know whcih way round the legs are? Some parts of the Camanchd Association's website show the home leg for Scotland on 22nd October, and the Croke Park leg on 29th, and other parts of the same website the other way round.
The game in Ireland is in Athy on the 22nd with the return in Inverness on the 29th. I don't see the need for the two legs, it worked fine as a one off annual game. The shinty season has dragged on with the wet weather over the past few weeks putting some key games off and I know plenty of shinty folk are asking why are we devoting 2 weekends to this when the Premier League title and relegation is still to be decided. I would hope that this year they will just total up the aggregate score over the two games anyway rather than the mad system they dreamed up last year ???.
Scotland squad;
John Barr (Glenurquhart)
Kevin Bartlett (Caberfeidh)
Daniel Cameron (Oban Camanachd)
Norman Campbell (Newtonmore)
Andrew Corrigan (Glenurquhart)
Gary Innes (Fort William)
Donald Irvine (Kyles Athletic)
Grant Irvine (Kyles Athletic)
John MacDonald (Fort William)
Neil MacDonald (Lochaber)
Roddy MacDonald (Kyles Athletic)
Stuart MacKintosh (Glenurquhart)
Robbie MacLeod (Kyles Athletic)
Niall MacPhee (Fort William)
Finlay MacRae (Kinlochshiel)
Keith MacRae (Kinlochshiel)
Shaun Nicolson (Lochaber)
John Stewart (Kilmallie)
Gavin Stobbart (Oban Camanachd)
Gary Innes and Ronald Ross big losses for the Scotland team
@ the colonel
Gary Innes is in the squad
Sorley MacDonald of Skye Camanachd has been called into the squad too, don't know who pulled out.
Ireland squad;
1. Patrick Mullaney - Laois
2. Joe Bergin - Offaly
3. Kieran Divilly - Kildare
4. Cormac Donnelly - Antrim
5. John Doran - Kildare
6. Arron Graffin - Antrim
7. Willie Hyland - Laois
8. Eoin Kelly - Tipperary
9. David Kennedy - Kildare
10. Damian Maguire - Tyrone
11. Brendan Maher - Tipperary
12. Shane Morley - Mayo
13. Tom Murnane - Kerry
14. Brendan Murtagh - Westmeath
15. Eoin Nolan - Carlow
16. Andy O'Brien - Wicklow
17. Eoin Price - Westmeath
18. Michael Rice – Kilkenny (capt)
Under 21's;
1. Eoin Reilly - Laois
2. Michael Armstrong - Antrim
3. John Coyne - Roscommon
4. David English - Carlow
5. John Gilligan - Westmeath
6. Conor Grogan - Tyrone
7. Declan Hannon - Limerick
8. Jason Leahy - Kerry
9. Alan McGrath - Westmeath
10. Brian Murphy - Kerry
11. Killian Murphy - Westmeath
12. Shane Nolan - Kerry
13. Darragh O'Connell - Kerry (capt)
14. Barry O'Mara - Westmeath
15. Eanna O'Neill - Kildare
16. Mick Purcell - Kildare
17. Morgan Quinn - Leitrim
18. Ollie Walsh - Kilkenny
apologies! couldnt see his name. thought it was strange he wasnt there
Don't much about the Irish sport - how do GAABoard posters rate their squad?
There's two Tipperary and one Kilkenny player there, but the rest aren't big Hurling counties, are they? And is this a chance for a talented player from a weaker county to get some recognition?
Hope I'm not bombarding you lot with stupid questions!
It's not not the best squad we could pick, not by a country mile, but then picking the best squad might make the game a little one sided. Offaly would be a good hurling county, Antrim would also be good enough. Laois, Carlow and Westmeath are a wee bit behind Antrim. The rest wouldn't play in the higher tier of the championship.
As for a player getting recognition, who knows? maybe if he plays well enough. But I doubt he would get much recognition as no-one pays any attention to this game, which is unfortunate.
I don't know much about the Scotland team, but judging by previous games I think this will be a tight game. I think the rules give Scotland a slight advantage, especially since we cannot use our hands so the Scots might just edge it. I hope I'm wrong
Also some of the height and distance those Scottish lads get from striking the ball off the ground is quite impressive
Aye, the rules seem slightly biased towards Scotland. But then, the rules will never be completely neutral. For example, handling the ball. Whether included or excluded, it leaves one team trying to play the game in a completely alien manner.
Thanks for your answers about the team - by recognition, i was thinking more of a "thank you, we've noticed your efforts in a weaker team" from the association itself, rather than the hurling public at large. I'm well aware that this game means more to the Scots than it ever will to the Irish.
We're a tiny sport even within a small country, it's very important for us to have some form of international outlet. Hurling doesn't need that the way shinty does.
I think just getting pick for the team is as much recognition as they can hope for, there isn't really much can be done in regards to a thank you, other than the presumably free gear and stuff they get, some one might might come out and say "Oh such and such from wherever played really well" but the won't be handing out rewards based on this game. It's not a professional sport so I think the opportunity to play for their country is brilliant for the players and they're probably delighted to get the chance
I think its good to have an international game for Hurling as well, it would be nice however, if Scotland teams were of a higher quality(no offence), then we could have A, B, C international games which would be great.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 20, 2011, 05:27:55 PM
I think its good to have an international game for Hurling as well, it would be nice however, if Scotland teams were of a higher quality(no offence), then we could have A, B, C international games which would be great.
None taken - the sport with a bigger pool of players will always have higher quality.
It would be great f the sport grew enough to facilitate a wide range of internationals, as well great for its own sake for shinty to grow.
Bear in mind we have only circa 50 clubs, tbh I think we're doing pretty well to put out A's, u21's and ladies! Our national association are quite good at sending underage squads on tours to Ireland, but they tend to play clubs and the odd county, rather than the full age group internationals. Our University teams try to send teams over/host teams, but that's probably more for the bevvy than the game!
I think the shinty / hurling internationals are great; prefer them to the football version personally.
If not already done, any chance of getting it integrated into the highland games (international)? If I'm right Shinty has a greater popularity in some area than others; north west of Scotland? We could perhaps break it up into a province verses district / fiefdom sort of rapid league, then an international. ???
Only 50 clubs. Well you aren't that bad for only having 50 clubs. What would the average clubs facilities be like? Over here a lot of clubs have excellent facilities.
The Scottish team is by and large picked from the Premier League clubs but I don't think you could say it was a pick of the very best shinty players. Only 1 player for example from either of the teams who took part in the recent Camanachd Cup final. It's a good squad though made up of guys who put themselves forward for selection and I think they all have previous experience of the composite rules too.
Should also be said that even in the years that Ireland picked the very best hurlers that Scotland did well against them - the only time there was a real hammering was when they used the Aussie Rules/Football scoring system. I reckon if you put the best hurlers and shinty players against each other that it would still be fairly close, you can see when they play that it's two different sports with each team trying to play it on their terms and it's hard for one to dominate and pull away. It's a bit of a novelty really but it's a very old link and is worth retaining IMO, albeit I wouldn't play it over 2 games. Also understand the concerns some shinty folk have over playing it when there are big league games still to play and winter looming!
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 20, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Only 50 clubs. Well you aren't that bad for only having 50 clubs. What would the average clubs facilities be like? Over here a lot of clubs have excellent facilities.
It can vary massively to be honest, not all clubs will have changing rooms as part of the ground - not many teams own their own grounds. The Camanachd Association gets little support from either the Westminster or devolved Holyrood governments. The majority of sports funding in the UK atm is going into the Olympics. Without wanting to make it sound like a
Kulturkampf it pisses me right off that so many Scots play Field Hockey and the amount of funding that sport gets compared to our own native stick and ball sport.
The university teams all have great facilities, as Scottish Unis tend to have good sports grounds in general, yet this is the lowest level of shinty.
Shinty is by and large a rural sport, a highland/gaidhlig sport to be specific. The places that are shinty strongholds are fairly sparsely populated. Fort William can support two clubs, each running 1sts and reserves and a youth program, whilst the nation's capital, Edinburgh, only has a ladies team!
There are great efforts to introduce the sport into the more populous central belt and there are a number of youth teams based around primary and secondary schools. The important thing is not to lose those players when there is no established adult club nearby and beer and women become more of an interest!
Demonstration games are becoming more common at Highland Games, at home but especially in North America, Northern California has a 6-a-side league with 3 teams, and regularly put a Northern California Camanchd to tour Scotland. There are also demonstration trophies based around the Royal National Mod (the annual Gaidhlig cultural festival) and around HebCelt (the Hebridean Celtic Music Festival)
There are also clubs in Oregon and Washington in the Pacific Northwest. There are currently attempts to get a club off the ground in Massachusetts and i'm trying (and failing!) to revive the London club.
Regarding selection of the Scottish team - i think the best Shinty/Hurling players are now being picked, that's not neccessarily the best representative Shinty team out there.
Fascinating stuff London Caman.
A very close relation of shinty was played in ulster until the early 1900s when it was killed off by the codification of the rules of hurling by the GAA.
Modern hurling rules are based almost entirely on the southern games of ioman, with scarcely a nod to the northern game of Caman (only the sideline cut remains from the northern game).
Caman was a winter game, played with a hooked stick similar to a shinty one. The ball was wooden and was rarely handled, and the stick didn't much lend itself to carrying the ball.
My own club played under hurling rules but was effectively playing Caman well into the 1930s. Reading the old records, our opponents were none too pleased with out sticks regularly smashing the flat Hurley sticks.
While i knew about the old Caman game, it wasn't until I saw a hurling shinty international in Croke Park that I made the connection. The game we played in Donegal (and across Ulster) was effectively shinty.
Thanks for the answer LondonCaman. I would agree with you that it's a shame people are playing field hockey in Scotland, rather than their native game, especially when they are relatively similar. I thought hurling had it's problems regarding the interest (or lack thereof) in Ireland, especially in Connacht and Ulster where most counties bar Antrim and Galway don't show much interest in the sport. To be fair though some counties in Ulster are making progress, especially in Armagh but still hurling is seen as footballs ugly sister in most parts. These problems seem to be nothing compared to what shinty is facing.
Lamh Dhearg Alba, maybe if both teams put out full strength teams it wouldn't be as one sided as I thought, and I agree that this link should be kept and maintained and promoted.
They are 2 different sports, and you can tell when you watch it, if Ireland were allowed to catch the ball and use their hands I think it would make the match a bit of a non-contest, it would be very hard for the Scots to get the ball. I also think that the fitness level of a full strength Irish team would be a major advantage for us, for all intents and purposes these are professional sports men playing an amateur game
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 21, 2011, 10:43:41 AMThanks for the answer LondonCaman. I would agree with you that it's a shame people are playing field hockey in Scotland, rather than their native game, especially when they are relatively similar.
Part of the porblem is that they are relatively similar, shinty gets disparagingly referred to as "hockey for psychopaths". I was always taught at school that fitness was "speed, strength, skill, stamina and agility". Shinty requires all those in far greater quantities than hockey making it a far more entertaining spectator sport and far more fun to play.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 21, 2011, 10:43:41 AMI thought hurling had it's problems regarding the interest (or lack thereof) in Ireland, especially in Connacht and Ulster where most counties bar Antrim and Galway don't show much interest in the sport. To be fair though some counties in Ulster are making progress, especially in Armagh but still hurling is seen as footballs ugly sister in most parts. These problems seem to be nothing compared to what shinty is facing.
The GAA will always be bigger - the Camanachd Association was only ever a sporting body, and has no cultural or linguistic function - I suppose te battle in Ireland is to prevent the association from concentrrating on the one sport?.
Football (soccer) will always dominate in Scotland, its the sport of the urban working class, and Scotland has always been a more industrial nation than Ireland.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 21, 2011, 10:43:41 AMI also think that the fitness level of a full strength Irish team would be a major advantage for us, for all intents and purposes these are professional sports men playing an amateur game
For an amatuer sport, the level of skill and fitness at the top of the sport does surprise people not used to shinty. The shinty players will have 90minutes of running in them, the hurlers only 75, if the shinty players can recognise the time and concentrate 90 mins of running into 75, that might negate the hurlers fitness advantage (or it might go against them, as the shinty players will know how to pace themselves for 90mins, not 75!)
I didn't even realise shinty was played over 90 minutes, and with only 12 men, I can imagine that could be quite demanding at times.
I'd imagine most hurlers would have 90 minutes in them, obviously they would slow down in the last 10-15 minutes. They couldn't play at the high level of intensity they play at for a full 90 minutes. But still, I would say most inter county players are fitter than, or at least as fit as their league of Ireland/Irish league counterparts.
I cant understand why some people prefer to watch soccer over hurling(or Shinty), I know it's just my opinion, but I struggle to watch a full 90 minutes of a game, unless it is a world cup match which is weird because I actually like enjoy watching world cup matches.
I would love for hurling and shinty to be more popular around the world, but at the same time I don't want other people playing my sport. I don't know why and it's a bit petty but I just don't want other countries getting good at our sport. I like being able to say "Oh, Ireland has the best hurling/gaelic players in the world", I know its stupid but still....
I'm from Aberdeen, so i've grown up with football as an obsession (3000 mile round trips to see us lose 5-1 in munich and the like), and can understand why people follow the game.
I can understand the enjoyment that comes from playing a sport unique to your culture, i get it too, but i'd still love it to spread to lowland Scots (i'm one myself, and only got into the sport at uni), and the Scots diaspora in London.
Many years ago (in '76 to be exact) I was a member of the Trinity College, Dublin hurling team that went on an Easter trip to Scotland to play a number of hurling/shinty games against the universities of Glasgow and St. Andrews. We played 4 games in 8 days and won each one comfortably. The rules we played under were more or less that same as are being used in the present international series.
The shinty players were far more dedicated to the job in hand than we were and, unlike us, they turned up sober for all games!
. As we played each university twice, the opposition had the advantage of having a couple of extra days to prepare for their second game.
We played 11-a-side, no handling or lifting, no points and were obviously using shinty goals.
Trinity never looked like losing any of the games and the only real danger we faced was the possibility of getting brained by a flying shinty stick. Because there was (is?) no projection at the end of the handle, a player could let the stick fly out of his grasp if he swung hard when the conditions were greasy and wet.
The bigger 'boss' on the hurley made the job of trapping and controlling the sliotar much easier for us than the opposition.
Incidentally, all balls used by shinty clubs at the time were hurling sliotars made somewhere in Westmeath or so I was told.
Now, TCD is definitely not noted for the quality of its hurlers and in fact we were far more interested in the craic than in the results.
That's why I would expect the hurlers in any game, internationals included, to win with something to spare.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 20, 2011, 09:50:49 AM
It's not not the best squad we could pick, not by a country mile, but then picking the best squad might make the game a little one sided. Offaly would be a good hurling county, Antrim would also be good enough. Laois, Carlow and Westmeath are a wee bit behind Antrim. The rest wouldn't play in the higher tier of the championship.
As for a player getting recognition, who knows? maybe if he plays well enough. But I doubt he would get much recognition as no-one pays any attention to this game, which is unfortunate.
Ireland used to try and pick their best panel of players from the top tier up until about 10 years ago. However, from talking to an officer who was involved with the team at the time, the top lads had little regard for it and constantly pulled out the day before the games, which made it a nightmare for the management.
About seven years ago, it was suggested that players from the Ring/Rackard counties would be instead chosen for these competitions, and from that the Irish organisers and management could felt that the lower tier lads had more enthusiasm to wear the Irish jersey and were easier to organise. Albeit, they werent at the same level as the McCarthy Cup lads, but took pride in getting the call up. This system has remained in place since, but players from teams from the lower echelons of the McCarthy Cup came on board each year. Westmeath, Carlow, Laois and Antrim are all McCarthy Cup counties remember, so for a lad from the lower tiers to play in this is some achievement. Also, a few very top tier players are thrown in to help the scoring side of things. Eoin Kelly and Michael Rice are there this year to drive things on up front. Im looking forward to this game, as I think its a bit like celebrity deathmatch - as little is known about either sidesides.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 22, 2011, 12:22:58 AM
Many years ago (in '76 to be exact) I was a member of the Trinity College, Dublin hurling team that went on an Easter trip to Scotland to play a number of hurling/shinty games against the universities of Glasgow and St. Andrews. We played 4 games in 8 days and won each one comfortably. The rules we played under were more or less that same as are being used in the present international series.
The shinty players were far more dedicated to the job in hand than we were and, unlike us, they turned up sober for all games!
. As we played each university twice, the opposition had the advantage of having a couple of extra days to prepare for their second game.
We played 11-a-side, no handling or lifting, no points and were obviously using shinty goals.
Trinity never looked like losing any of the games and the only real danger we faced was the possibility of getting brained by a flying shinty stick. Because there was (is?) no projection at the end of the handle, a player could let the stick fly out of his grasp if he swung hard when the conditions were greasy and wet.
The bigger 'boss' on the hurley made the job of trapping and controlling the sliotar much easier for us than the opposition.
Incidentally, all balls used by shinty clubs at the time were hurling sliotars made somewhere in Westmeath or so I was told.
Now, TCD is definitely not noted for the quality of its hurlers and in fact we were far more interested in the craic than in the results.
That's why I would expect the hurlers in any game, internationals included, to win with something to spare.
You might expect it - but results since the international games were re-started in the late 80's would suggest otherwise!
Watching this, it seems to me hurling would be a much better game to watch if handling the ball wasn't allowed. It forces the players to display their stick skills. Great stuff on display here.
Good game to watch today. Interesting to see the different skill sets involved. Its a lovely striking action the Scottish lads have but can sometimes take a while to execute. And the control the Irish lads have without using the hand is great to watch. Good game on a pishy day in Kildare.
Question for the lads who know more of Shinty than I would, is the pitch the same size or would ours be bigger? I know there are only 12 players on a shinty team so would the pitch size be reduced for this or does the length they can get on the ball cancel this out?
Unfortunately I missed the match as I was at a club game. I seen the score, but I was wondering who all played well and what kind of game was it?
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 06:38:14 PM
Unfortunately I missed the match as I was at a club game. I seen the score, but I was wondering who all played well and what kind of game was it?
great game- Donnelly, Bergin, Hyland, Kelly and Rice best for Ireland. Donnelly seemed to be everywhere and is a credit to Antrim
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2011, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 06:38:14 PM
Unfortunately I missed the match as I was at a club game. I seen the score, but I was wondering who all played well and what kind of game was it?
great game- Donnelly, Bergin, Hyland, Kelly and Rice best for Ireland. Donnelly seemed to be everywhere and is a credit to Antrim
Thanks, Hopefully there will be some highlights on TV or on youtube that I can catch. Donnelly is a very good player, very dependable.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 07:50:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2011, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 06:38:14 PM
Unfortunately I missed the match as I was at a club game. I seen the score, but I was wondering who all played well and what kind of game was it?
great game- Donnelly, Bergin, Hyland, Kelly and Rice best for Ireland. Donnelly seemed to be everywhere and is a credit to Antrim
Thanks, Hopefully there will be some highlights on TV or on youtube that I can catch. Donnelly is a very good player, very dependable.
It's on TG4 player - http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player.html
Click on "Sport" in the Archive box on the home page.
Quote from: Hardy on October 22, 2011, 08:17:53 PM
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 07:50:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2011, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 22, 2011, 06:38:14 PM
Unfortunately I missed the match as I was at a club game. I seen the score, but I was wondering who all played well and what kind of game was it?
great game- Donnelly, Bergin, Hyland, Kelly and Rice best for Ireland. Donnelly seemed to be everywhere and is a credit to Antrim
Thanks, Hopefully there will be some highlights on TV or on youtube that I can catch. Donnelly is a very good player, very dependable.
It's on TG4 player - http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player.html
Click on "Sport" in the Archive box on the home page.
Ahh, Fantastic, just what I'm looking for. Thanks very much
Aye, Cormac Donnelly was brilliant, won a fair amount of ball and when the game was getting feisty he wasn't shy when in the challenge. Very good hurler indeed, Kelly took some great scores also. Great to see some of the big names there
Quote from: Hardy on October 22, 2011, 04:16:28 PM
Watching this, it seems to me hurling would be a much better game to watch if handling the ball wasn't allowed. It forces the players to display their stick skills. Great stuff on display here.
Would you not think it would not lead to more "rucks" around the ball? Can't think of the right word but its the sort of thing that leads to more 'throw ins' in hurling. When a group of lads are all at it with their feet rather than the hurl. the game today was very good to watch though. some of the "touch" skills from the irish lads was very nice to watch but I don't think they would have the time to do it in a hurling match. Also the striking skills of the Scottish lads was akin to stepping up with an eight iron and hitting it as if they had all the time in the world.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 22, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 22, 2011, 12:22:58 AM
Many years ago (in '76 to be exact) I was a member of the Trinity College, Dublin hurling team that went on an Easter trip to Scotland to play a number of hurling/shinty games against the universities of Glasgow and St. Andrews. We played 4 games in 8 days and won each one comfortably. The rules we played under were more or less that same as are being used in the present international series.
The shinty players were far more dedicated to the job in hand than we were and, unlike us, they turned up sober for all games!
. As we played each university twice, the opposition had the advantage of having a couple of extra days to prepare for their second game.
We played 11-a-side, no handling or lifting, no points and were obviously using shinty goals.
Trinity never looked like losing any of the games and the only real danger we faced was the possibility of getting brained by a flying shinty stick. Because there was (is?) no projection at the end of the handle, a player could let the stick fly out of his grasp if he swung hard when the conditions were greasy and wet.
The bigger 'boss' on the hurley made the job of trapping and controlling the sliotar much easier for us than the opposition.
Incidentally, all balls used by shinty clubs at the time were hurling sliotars made somewhere in Westmeath or so I was told.
Now, TCD is definitely not noted for the quality of its hurlers and in fact we were far more interested in the craic than in the results.
That's why I would expect the hurlers in any game, internationals included, to win with something to spare.
You might expect it - but results since the international games were re-started in the late 80's would suggest otherwise!
So it would appear. I'm mad that I missed Saturday's game on TG4. I wonder if it will be shown again during the week. Anyone know anything about this?
It's on BBC Alba (Channel 168 on Sky) at the moment and is repeated again tonight at 1030 I think. I'm enjoying the game but the long grass isn't doing the shinty boys any favours!
Quote from: andoireabu on October 22, 2011, 04:26:32 PM
Good game to watch today. Interesting to see the different skill sets involved. Its a lovely striking action the Scottish lads have but can sometimes take a while to execute. And the control the Irish lads have without using the hand is great to watch. Good game on a pishy day in Kildare.
In shinty players can be tackled from behind by having the travel of their swing knocked off course by an opponent's caman (known as cleeking). The Scottish lads probably had more time for their swings in this game than they would in shinty match.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufopilot/4891571776/)
Quote from: andoireabu on October 22, 2011, 04:26:32 PMQuestion for the lads who know more of Shinty than I would, is the pitch the same size or would ours be bigger? I know there are only 12 players on a shinty team so would the pitch size be reduced for this or does the length they can get on the ball cancel this out?
It varies from pitch to pitch, but a shinty pitch is 70-80 x 140-170yds.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on October 24, 2011, 01:24:24 PM
In shinty players can be tackled from behind by having the travel of their swing knocked off course by an opponent's caman (known as cleeking). The Scottish lads probably had more time for their swings in this game than they would in shinty match.
Isn't this just like hooking in hurling? Where a player use his stick from behind to knock the.... well I'm not gonna describe it anymore as, from your description and you image (www.flickr.com/photos/ufopilot/4891571776/ I only link it because it doesn't seem to appear on my screen) it does seem as if 'cleeking' is offaly(sorry) similar to hooking. Anyway the shinty caman seems more suited to this than a hurl as it is more curved and heavier, which I would assume would make it easier to knock an opponents strike off course.
In parts of North Antrim 'hooking' is also known as 'cleeking' so its the same.
Quote from: Magicsponge on October 24, 2011, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on October 24, 2011, 01:24:24 PM
In shinty players can be tackled from behind by having the travel of their swing knocked off course by an opponent's caman (known as cleeking). The Scottish lads probably had more time for their swings in this game than they would in shinty match.
Isn't this just like hooking in hurling? Where a player use his stick from behind to knock the.... well I'm not gonna describe it anymore as, from your description and you image (www.flickr.com/photos/ufopilot/4891571776/ I only link it because it doesn't seem to appear on my screen) it does seem as if 'cleeking' is offaly(sorry) similar to hooking. Anyway the shinty caman seems more suited to this than a hurl as it is more curved and heavier, which I would assume would make it easier to knock an opponents strike off course.
@Antrim Coaster - thanks for clearing that up.
I'e played shinty against a few irish boys that had come over to Scotland to study, they preferred to use shorter camans and seemed to keep their swing very tight to their body, i found it much harder to get a cleek in on them than the Scottish players.
@Magic sponge - the other key thing is that our camans are a
lot more durable! Winning the ball in shinty is all about stick tackling, either the cleek from behind or the block from infront:-
http://www.mnetv.tv/newsroom/newsstory.aspx?id=82
Actually, there's a couple more videos along those lines if you're interested in seeing the basic skills of our game:-
http://www.mnetv.tv/newsroom/newsstory.aspx?id=538
http://www.mnetv.tv/newsroom/newsstory.aspx?id=543
http://www.mnetv.tv/newsroom/newsstory.aspx?id=88
And one about a Scottish based camogie team that switched codes because they had no-one else to play against!
http://www.mnetv.tv/newsroom/newsstory.aspx?id=147
A few new players called up to the Ireland Panel due to injuries:
- Rory Hanniffy (Offaly) replaces Eoin Kelly (Tipperary).
- Craig Doyle (Carlow) replaces Andy O'Brien (Wicklow).
- Paul Dermody (Kildare) replaces Paddy Mullane (Laois).
Taken from the Hoganstand website
btw, if there's any London based hurling fans reading this - there'll be a couple of shinty players trying to persuade the Alexandra by Clapham Common to put it on.
Throw up/in at 2pm, BBC 2 Scotland
Full live audio of the Under 21 and Senior games is now up here http://action81.com/blog/?p=5307
Cóilín Duffy on commentary in Inverness.
I see Ireland won by a point today 2-9 to 1-11 and obviously won the series this year being ahead from last week.
Yes and the Under 21s won 5-2 to 1-5.
Absolute howler from Stuart McIntosh in the Scotland goal in the closing stages with an Irish effort for a point that dropped short going past him into the net. As ever you could see it was two different sports and it was a bit of a stramash at times but the atmosphere picked up near the end as Ireland got that crucial second goal and Scotland then chased a winner. Played in a very good spirit throughout.
I really think they should just go back to 1 annual match rather than playing it over 2 legs, there really is no need for it. There are crucial Premier League games to be played and they could have gone ahead today rather than devoting a second weekend to what is in the end a bit of a gimmick. If they must continue with the two game format then just make it an aggregate score - for the second year in a row the crowd were bemused by what was going on and the vast majority of the media reports this week in Ireland and Scotland didn't understand the scoring system. Even the GAA website thought it was an aggregate score that decided it.
Ireland missed some chances in the last 15 minutes
I watched the game today on TG4 and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was surprised that the goal structure had been altered and point scoring was allowed. This, plus the fact that the ball could be lifted and struck in the air, gave the Irish lads a considerable advantage.
I guess that's why I found myself hoping for a Scottish win as the game drew to a close.
Ah, the game brought back many happy memories for me.
So what is this mysterious scoring system? Is it aggregate or what?
Camanachd Cup Final is live on BBC 2 Scotland tomorrow (available through SKY) from 2.30 if anybody is interested. Interesting pairing this year as great Argyll rivals Kyles Athletic and Inveraray meet at Mossfield Park in Oban. First all South final since 1983 and indeed only the second time it's ever happened. The two teams know each other very well - and are not that fond of each other - which will probably mean it's niggly at times. They both however play the traditional open attacking south style so fingers crossed there is plenty of good shinty on show. Two real shinty legends in the goals also - Kenny MacDonald of Kyles who believe it or not is 50 and whose son Roddy will be playing up front, and Graeme 'Toad' MacPherson of Inveraray who is 40, and who is known for tearing out of his goal to win possession and start moves from the back. Kenny MacDonald apart, Kyles are a really young team and have been the coming force in shinty for the past 2 or 3 years. They have won the cup 20 times, but not since 1994. This Inveraray team on the other hand have mainly been around for a decade or so and should really have won more than just the 1 Camanachd Cup (2004). Has the makings of a great occasion - hope it comes somewhere near last Sunday's game in Croke Park for excitement and drama.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on September 14, 2012, 08:36:42 PM
Has the makings of a great occasion - hope it comes somewhere near last Sunday's game in Croke Park for excitement and drama.
Well it certainly did - Kyles Athletic 6 Inveraray 5.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mxxpf/Shinty_Camanachd_Cup_Inveraray_v_Kyles_Athletic/
The second test of the senior international is in Ennis this afternoon and it's live on TG4 I believe. Ireland won the first test 25-19 so lead 3-1 based on the daft scoring system used over the series.
Highlights of the first test here with some brilliant stick skills from Patrick Horgan - the Scots will be happy he isn't playing today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jn9lDDnVZW0
I love this game, but what lunacy inspired the decision to increase the value of the goal to five points?
I think it needs a few tweaks. The two points for a score from a free off the ground is stupid. If a Scottish player hits the ball in play it's one point. If the referee calls it back for a free from the same spot, it's two points, even though it's a much easier task now that he has nobody tackling him. It makes no sense.
And the Scottish goalie needs some kind of implement that gives him a chance of blocking shots. The shinty stick ain't designed for that, it seems to me.
Also, there is no effective way for the Scots to stop an Irish player running with the ball on the stick, so I think this needs to be curbed - four steps maximum or something like that.
What I really love about the game, though, is the fact that no handling is allowed. It's a joy to watch the stick skills displayed by the hurlers when they can't handle the ball. I've said it before, but I'm becoming more convinced that hurling would be a better game if handling wasn't allowed. Apart from the emphasis it would place on stick skills, it would eliminate most of the pulling and dragging that comes with trying to stop a man with a ball in his hand. OK, the spectacular high catch is something we'd want to preserve, so this could be allowed as the only occasion you're allowed to handle the ball - a clean catch when the ball is off the ground and immediate transfer to stick.
Something else I wonder about: the Scots charge the Irish player as soon as he lifts the ball for a free. Why don't we do this in hurling? Surely the ball is in play as soon as it's lifted?
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2012, 03:56:05 PM
I love this game, but what lunacy inspired the decision to increase the value of the goal to five points?
I think it needs a few tweaks. The two points for a score from a free off the ground is stupid. If a Scottish player hits the ball in play it's one point. If the referee calls it back for a free from the same spot, it's two points, even though it's a much easier task now that he has nobody tackling him. It makes no sense.
And the Scottish goalie needs some kind of implement that gives him a chance of blocking shots. The shinty stick ain't designed for that, it seems to me.
I think the 2 points for a free from the ground came about because going for points is so foreign to the Scots and Ireland were going for shots over the bar a lot more and racing ahead. Giving Scotland 2 points for hits from the ground was supposed to balance that a bit.
Awful drubbing for Scotland today. They were actually a little hard done by early on as they had as many goal chances as Ireland in the opening 20 minutes but didn't take them and found themselves 20 points down. Ireland defended much better however with extra men back crowding the Scots out in front of goal, and when the Scots did get a shot away the Irish keeper made a couple of great saves. At the other end Scotland went man for man so when the Irish player beat the defender he invariably had a clear shot at goal, which basically meant he was sure to score as long as he hit the target.
Some brilliant stick skills by the Irish team over both tests. I thought Scotland were below par in both games and never really got going, they will need to have another think about it for next year because something was badly wrong.
The stupid scoring system needs killed off too, just keep it and simple and make it an aggregate score.
I think Hardy might be right about getting rid of handling the ball in hurling. It's not something we'll ever see happen I suppose, but it's an experimant I'd love to see too as the stickwork was brilliant and had to be so innovative. It's a game of pure skill.
Size and speed become less important. It would be a way of going back to an emphasis on skill rather than the huge emphasis there is on athleticism in the game now. When lads like Ger Farragher and Cha Fitzpatrick can't cut it at the top level there's something wrong.
Quote from: Asal Mor on November 04, 2012, 02:23:05 PM
I think Hardy might be right about getting rid of handling the ball in hurling. It's not something we'll ever see happen I suppose, but it's an experimant I'd love to see too as the stickwork was brilliant and had to be so innovative. It's a game of pure skill.
That's what the compromise rules game is like.