11-Plus Proposal

[manfromdelmonte]

It's a bonkers system of deciding what school you go to and completely goes against all models of best practice

[Tony Baloney]

Letters for taigs, numbers for prods. You hardly expect them everyone to do the same test!

Haha

GL year for catholic grammar but lots of taigs do the AQE test as well.

Yes In Armagh there is quite a bit of crossover.

[ONeill]

A GL test won't get them apples picked.

[trailer]

It's a disgrace that schools are still allowed to "select" children. I'd make it illegal and close non conforming schools. Lazy teachers looking for an easy ride.

[JimStynes]

Close them up and tarmac over them! That'll sort it out!

[Jim Bob]

It's a disgrace that schools are still allowed to "select" children. I'd make it illegal and close non conforming schools. Lazy teachers looking for an easy ride.

Schools will always have to "select" children. They cannot accommodate unlimited numbers.

You would close schools? That'd be a great help.

School don't have to select through tests. They can use the same criteria as non selecting schools and fill their places from there. Selecting pupils from a test ensures they have the best pupils which will save them the bother if having to deal with pupils who require additional support and differentiating their lessons.

[trailer]

Selecting children or rejecting children is a disgrace. Telling a child he/she isn't good, smart enough. It's lazy teachers looking for the easy way out. Teach the best and to hell with the rest. No one can make a case for grammar schools.
I actually passed and attended a Grammar school, 7 years and have a good standard of education under my belt. But as a parent I see how it's just taking the easy way out as a society.

[delgany]

Selecting children or rejecting children is a disgrace. Telling a child he/she isn't good, smart enough. It's lazy teachers looking for the easy way out. Teach the best and to hell with the rest. No one can make a case for grammar schools.
I actually passed and attended a Grammar school, 7 years and have a good standard of education under my belt. But as a parent I see how it's just taking the easy way out as a society.

Let's clear up a few things.
There is nothing wrong with selecting & rejecting children for school places. It has to happen. Selecting & rejecting on academic ability is wrong, in my opinion but not in the opinion of many others.
I think it's foolish to put it down to "lazy teachers wanting an easy life". Many people who are not teachers support the system and even demand it.
It seems you think teachers have some sort of sway on this. These decisions aren't taken by teachers. The principal would have a say alright but most of the people who make these decisions don't work in the school.

Closing schools down will not help.

Approximately, 8 000 parents decided to enter there child into the exams . 6 000 Iin the GL  and AQE . 2 000 entered both. If parents didn't enter the exams ,there would be no need for them! But that's not the case !

[Jim Bob]

It's a disgrace that schools are still allowed to "select" children. I'd make it illegal and close non conforming schools. Lazy teachers looking for an easy ride.

Schools will always have to "select" children. They cannot accommodate unlimited numbers.

You would close schools? That'd be a great help.

School don't have to select through tests. They can use the same criteria as non selecting schools and fill their places from there. Selecting pupils from a test ensures they have the best pupils which will save them the bother if having to deal with pupils who require additional support and differentiating their lessons.

They don't, but they'll always select.

Surely you don't honestly believe that teachers in selective schools don't have to "deal with pupils who require additional support and differentiating lessons."

I have debated this with grammar school teachers during all of my career. Their whole view is that  it is up to pupils to be fit for the work that the grammar school provides. If they are not fit to keep up like the most able in the class then they should not be at the school. They should be at the secondary school. Imagine a primary school teacher taking that attitude to their pupils!!!

The sad thing about it is that the grammar school teachers  get away with it.

[trailer]

Selecting children or rejecting children is a disgrace. Telling a child he/she isn't good, smart enough. It's lazy teachers looking for the easy way out. Teach the best and to hell with the rest. No one can make a case for grammar schools.
I actually passed and attended a Grammar school, 7 years and have a good standard of education under my belt. But as a parent I see how it's just taking the easy way out as a society.

Let's clear up a few things.
There is nothing wrong with selecting & rejecting children for school places. It has to happen. Selecting & rejecting on academic ability is wrong, in my opinion but not in the opinion of many others.
I think it's foolish to put it down to "lazy teachers wanting an easy life". Many people who are not teachers support the system and even demand it.
It seems you think teachers have some sort of sway on this. These decisions aren't taken by teachers. The principal would have a say alright but most of the people who make these decisions don't work in the school.

Closing schools down will not help.

Approximately, 8 000 parents decided to enter there child into the exams . 6 000 Iin the GL  and AQE . 2 000 entered both. If parents didn't enter the exams ,there would be no need for them! But that not the case !

Nonsense response. Parents want the best for their children.

[trailer]

Selecting children or rejecting children is a disgrace. Telling a child he/she isn't good, smart enough. It's lazy teachers looking for the easy way out. Teach the best and to hell with the rest. No one can make a case for grammar schools.
I actually passed and attended a Grammar school, 7 years and have a good standard of education under my belt. But as a parent I see how it's just taking the easy way out as a society.

Let's clear up a few things.
There is nothing wrong with selecting & rejecting children for school places. It has to happen. Selecting & rejecting on academic ability is wrong, in my opinion but not in the opinion of many others.
I think it's foolish to put it down to "lazy teachers wanting an easy life". Many people who are not teachers support the system and even demand it.
It seems you think teachers have some sort of sway on this. These decisions aren't taken by teachers. The principal would have a say alright but most of the people who make these decisions don't work in the school.

Closing schools down will not help.

I would ban the 11+ and close the schools that refuse to co-operate. That's what I said.
Its all about an easy ride. Teaching those with the best ability. It's so far from the ethos of inclusiveness   that many schools promote. Lazy, useless hypocrites. The teaching community and dept of education need faced down on this and other issues. Inefficiency and incompetence is rife in that dept and by extension many schools.

[Tony Baloney]

It's a disgrace that schools are still allowed to "select" children. I'd make it illegal and close non conforming schools. Lazy teachers looking for an easy ride.

Schools will always have to "select" children. They cannot accommodate unlimited numbers.

You would close schools? That'd be a great help.

School don't have to select through tests. They can use the same criteria as non selecting schools and fill their places from there. Selecting pupils from a test ensures they have the best pupils which will save them the bother if having to deal with pupils who require additional support and differentiating their lessons.

They don't, but they'll always select.

Surely you don't honestly believe that teachers in selective schools don't have to "deal with pupils who require additional support and differentiating lessons."

I have debated this with grammar school teachers during all of my career. Their whole view is that  it is up to pupils to be fit for the work that the grammar school provides. If they are not fit to keep up like the most able in the class then they should not be at the school. They should be at the secondary school. Imagine a primary school teacher taking that attitude to their pupils!!!

The sad thing about it is that the grammar school teachers  get away with it.

I would agree with that to a certain extent. My 2 boys attend a grammar and my wife and her sister teach in a comp and the standard of teaching in their school is much better than the grammar and their league table position backs that up. It's definitely a handy number in the grammar school where they rely on the pupils to keep up whereas there is much more spoon-feeding at my wife's school.

[delgany]

Selecting children or rejecting children is a disgrace. Telling a child he/she isn't good, smart enough. It's lazy teachers looking for the easy way out. Teach the best and to hell with the rest. No one can make a case for grammar schools.
I actually passed and attended a Grammar school, 7 years and have a good standard of education under my belt. But as a parent I see how it's just taking the easy way out as a society.

Let's clear up a few things.
There is nothing wrong with selecting & rejecting children for school places. It has to happen. Selecting & rejecting on academic ability is wrong, in my opinion but not in the opinion of many others.
I think it's foolish to put it down to "lazy teachers wanting an easy life". Many people who are not teachers support the system and even demand it.
It seems you think teachers have some sort of sway on this. These decisions aren't taken by teachers. The principal would have a say alright but most of the people who make these decisions don't work in the school.

Closing schools down will not help.

Approximately, 8 000 parents decided to enter there child into the exams . 6 000 Iin the GL  and AQE . 2 000 entered both. If parents didn't enter the exams ,there would be no need for them! But that not the case !

Nonsense response. Parents want the best for their children.

Ironically , that was the point I was making .

[FermGael]

I have a better idea.
Keep the 11 plus.
Bring it back it but change the rules of entry.
Grammar schools can only accept pupils who achieve an A or a B grade.
Watch as overnight most of the "grammar" schools in Northern Ireland drop their "grammar" status.
It seems to me that their are very few "grammar" schools that now only take the top 2 grades.
If there were not allowed to drop into the C and in alot of cases the D grades when there is a dip in pupil numbers or top grade pupils go to another grammar school  then they would not make their intake and thus their funding and ultimately their staffing would be under threat.

[FermGael]

Are you saying that you are a supporter of academic selection at 11 as long as the "passes" and "fails" are always kept apart?

Surprised at you. 

No I am not.
Hate the thing with a passion.
I have personally dealt with many who have been destroyed by failing a test at 11 or sometimes 10 years of age. It's amazing that something that is as damaging to children has been allowed to stay in place in this day and age .
Thankfully my children won't have to do it. They will go to the local school

Grammar status at the moment is very questionable for alot of schools at the moment. They say they use it to admit pupils so that they can get their numbers.
That's it