Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 591523 times)

Orchard park

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4365 on: April 16, 2018, 12:16:14 PM »
Belfast has too many clubs, and a lot of kids are not being directed into gaa clubs the way they used too at primary level.. schools have more options, I didnt go to a school that had soccer, both Primary and secondary were all Gaa, teachers seemed to have more time to coach and I can remember coaches coming in from other clubs to help out (or poach  ;) )

Now you have soccer in all schools, parents arent bothered anymore also, as long as they are doing something they seem happy enough.. Can't blame soccer for that, its wall to wall coverage on TV so it will have an impact, plus their fixtures are run a lot better TBH..

Drink was always there but drugs now is big factor, mental health issues are another thing on the rise, not sure what the clubs do now for awareness on these areas, but that needs to be tackled..

The troubles actually helped with Gaa numbers I believe, mainly because of identity, identifying yourself with Ireland and or national sport, the family side of it increased numbers, brothers all playing for the one club and so on, that's still there of course but getting less and less.. once the troubles had stopped kids started to get their kicks elswhere, Belfast opened up and the club wasnt a place where you hung out, the city centre was..

How do we get it back? back to basics for me, get the planning right in the clubs for starters... I know we have taken our eye of the ball lately and as a club we are going through that down turn that all clubs go through, we need to sort ourselves out and no amount of money from headquarters will fix that unless we create the right mix of coaching, encouragement, attitudes and targets to inspire children to stay at the club through to senior...

Its not that long ago we had 2 senior hurling teams, 3 senior football teams, 2 south antrim (beer belly teams ;) ) all getting games.. we are back to one in each code, feeder teams are important but kids just want to play for the first team and walk away now if they are not getting a chance.. The numbers are there and the facilities/pitches are better than what I played on so hopefully the planning that Antrim will put in place with the investment will sort things out long term.. oh and get Casemnet built!

how the GPOs tie in with the schools and get the kids that they coach midweek to attend a saturday morning GAA club nursery / academy will dictate if this initiative fails or succeeds. the Dublin model is a GPO is club assigned and schools are assigned to that club / GPO

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4366 on: April 16, 2018, 01:31:42 PM »
Belfast has too many clubs, and a lot of kids are not being directed into gaa clubs the way they used too at primary level.. schools have more options, I didnt go to a school that had soccer, both Primary and secondary were all Gaa, teachers seemed to have more time to coach and I can remember coaches coming in from other clubs to help out (or poach  ;) )

Now you have soccer in all schools, parents arent bothered anymore also, as long as they are doing something they seem happy enough.. Can't blame soccer for that, its wall to wall coverage on TV so it will have an impact, plus their fixtures are run a lot better TBH..

Drink was always there but drugs now is big factor, mental health issues are another thing on the rise, not sure what the clubs do now for awareness on these areas, but that needs to be tackled..

The troubles actually helped with Gaa numbers I believe, mainly because of identity, identifying yourself with Ireland and or national sport, the family side of it increased numbers, brothers all playing for the one club and so on, that's still there of course but getting less and less.. once the troubles had stopped kids started to get their kicks elswhere, Belfast opened up and the club wasnt a place where you hung out, the city centre was..

How do we get it back? back to basics for me, get the planning right in the clubs for starters... I know we have taken our eye of the ball lately and as a club we are going through that down turn that all clubs go through, we need to sort ourselves out and no amount of money from headquarters will fix that unless we create the right mix of coaching, encouragement, attitudes and targets to inspire children to stay at the club through to senior...

Its not that long ago we had 2 senior hurling teams, 3 senior football teams, 2 south antrim (beer belly teams ;) ) all getting games.. we are back to one in each code, feeder teams are important but kids just want to play for the first team and walk away now if they are not getting a chance.. The numbers are there and the facilities/pitches are better than what I played on so hopefully the planning that Antrim will put in place with the investment will sort things out long term.. oh and get Casemnet built!

how the GPOs tie in with the schools and get the kids that they coach midweek to attend a saturday morning GAA club nursery / academy will dictate if this initiative fails or succeeds. the Dublin model is a GPO is club assigned and schools are assigned to that club / GPO

I get the impression there's very few natural boundaries existing between the clubs and schools in Belfast, especially primary schools.

For example at the Shaws Road area, you've St Pauls, Rossa and Sarsfields pitches right beside each other. The old Rossa club house on the Falls road was a stones throw from St Galls and their pitches. O'D's are right beside St Johns with the Gorts further on up the hill. Davitts are in the mix there somewhere as well as well as a few others. It seems to be family orientated, i.e. you ma or da played for such and such a club, so you play for them. That's OK, but new young blood needs to be brought into the fold.

A friend of mine was telling me of a GDO who was in the school he teaches at and the GDO was informing the kids of when the training was at the club he was affiliated to and the next day the school took a call from the chairman of another club giving out about the GDO showing favouritism to his own club. I'd say whoever looks after the GDO's in Antrim got a similar call if not quicker.

As MR suggests probably too many small clubs and none willing to yield an inch to the other.

On the South Belfast side of things, Carryduff do indeed charge £100 per child membership and from all accounts there's very little leeway on that.  I can't say for sure whether Bredagh are in the same ballpark or not, but they both have really big numbers at underage as the likes of the attendances at their Cúl Camps shows.
Problems I have with that are that if a youngster then decides to pick up a hurl, they've to get a helmet at almost £40 if they chose to buy a subsidised one from the club and then a hurl itself at anything from £15 up you're well out of pocket before you even think about boots and playing gear. That's a big ask for any parent.

In terms of how are they doing on the field, hurling wise Bredagh and Carryduff have picked up quite a few underage championships but really haven't kicked on at adult level. I gather that the same may be true at the football, but can't say for sure.
I'd know a few of their coaches quite well and was asking one last year or the year before as to why their minors were so weak after they'd won the U14 Feile at that age group with a very large panel and he was pretty forthright in that a lot of the hurlers just quit when winning started to get harder, "just another middle class sport" were his words, where they pick and choose. Most still lived in the area. He'd an U16 team down in our place a few weeks back and I happened to be complimenting their fullback who I thought was outstanding and one of the other coaches shrugged his shoulders and "sure he plays schools cup rugby for Methody, not sure how long we'll have him for". That can happen anywhere but there doesn't seem to be the connection to adult hurling/football teams there as yet whereas it's a given in some other places. Must be soul destroying for the coaches at times.
I can only think of one lad currently on the Down senior hurling panel from South Belfast at the minute, if even that and its not as if its a strong panel.

On the county development squads I'm in total agreement with Joe as they are getting in the way of clubs developing youngsters due to the asks put on those picked to go on them. The clubs are having to put training and games on hold far too much.
They are meant to supplement clubs and not replace them as per the Kilkenny model.

Someone touched on the recreational aspect and back in my day that was what we called the thirds team or turds, aka junior team where the lads didn't train, were either shite but loved the game, were retired from serious stuff and in it for the craic or the young lads cutting their teeth (literally) at the adult game as well as play underage.
It wasn't for everybody  ;D

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4367 on: April 16, 2018, 03:15:36 PM »
Belfast has too many clubs, and a lot of kids are not being directed into gaa clubs the way they used too at primary level.. schools have more options, I didnt go to a school that had soccer, both Primary and secondary were all Gaa, teachers seemed to have more time to coach and I can remember coaches coming in from other clubs to help out (or poach  ;) )

Now you have soccer in all schools, parents arent bothered anymore also, as long as they are doing something they seem happy enough.. Can't blame soccer for that, its wall to wall coverage on TV so it will have an impact, plus their fixtures are run a lot better TBH..

Drink was always there but drugs now is big factor, mental health issues are another thing on the rise, not sure what the clubs do now for awareness on these areas, but that needs to be tackled..

The troubles actually helped with Gaa numbers I believe, mainly because of identity, identifying yourself with Ireland and or national sport, the family side of it increased numbers, brothers all playing for the one club and so on, that's still there of course but getting less and less.. once the troubles had stopped kids started to get their kicks elswhere, Belfast opened up and the club wasnt a place where you hung out, the city centre was..

How do we get it back? back to basics for me, get the planning right in the clubs for starters... I know we have taken our eye of the ball lately and as a club we are going through that down turn that all clubs go through, we need to sort ourselves out and no amount of money from headquarters will fix that unless we create the right mix of coaching, encouragement, attitudes and targets to inspire children to stay at the club through to senior...

Its not that long ago we had 2 senior hurling teams, 3 senior football teams, 2 south antrim (beer belly teams ;) ) all getting games.. we are back to one in each code, feeder teams are important but kids just want to play for the first team and walk away now if they are not getting a chance.. The numbers are there and the facilities/pitches are better than what I played on so hopefully the planning that Antrim will put in place with the investment will sort things out long term.. oh and get Casemnet built!

how the GPOs tie in with the schools and get the kids that they coach midweek to attend a saturday morning GAA club nursery / academy will dictate if this initiative fails or succeeds. the Dublin model is a GPO is club assigned and schools are assigned to that club / GPO

I get the impression there's very few natural boundaries existing between the clubs and schools in Belfast, especially primary schools.

For example at the Shaws Road area, you've St Pauls, Rossa and Sarsfields pitches right beside each other. The old Rossa club house on the Falls road was a stones throw from St Galls and their pitches. O'D's are right beside St Johns with the Gorts further on up the hill. Davitts are in the mix there somewhere as well as well as a few others. It seems to be family orientated, i.e. you ma or da played for such and such a club, so you play for them. That's OK, but new young blood needs to be brought into the fold.

A friend of mine was telling me of a GDO who was in the school he teaches at and the GDO was informing the kids of when the training was at the club he was affiliated to and the next day the school took a call from the chairman of another club giving out about the GDO showing favouritism to his own club. I'd say whoever looks after the GDO's in Antrim got a similar call if not quicker.

As MR suggests probably too many small clubs and none willing to yield an inch to the other.

On the South Belfast side of things, Carryduff do indeed charge £100 per child membership and from all accounts there's very little leeway on that.  I can't say for sure whether Bredagh are in the same ballpark or not, but they both have really big numbers at underage as the likes of the attendances at their Cúl Camps shows.
Problems I have with that are that if a youngster then decides to pick up a hurl, they've to get a helmet at almost £40 if they chose to buy a subsidised one from the club and then a hurl itself at anything from £15 up you're well out of pocket before you even think about boots and playing gear. That's a big ask for any parent.

In terms of how are they doing on the field, hurling wise Bredagh and Carryduff have picked up quite a few underage championships but really haven't kicked on at adult level. I gather that the same may be true at the football, but can't say for sure.
I'd know a few of their coaches quite well and was asking one last year or the year before as to why their minors were so weak after they'd won the U14 Feile at that age group with a very large panel and he was pretty forthright in that a lot of the hurlers just quit when winning started to get harder, "just another middle class sport" were his words, where they pick and choose. Most still lived in the area. He'd an U16 team down in our place a few weeks back and I happened to be complimenting their fullback who I thought was outstanding and one of the other coaches shrugged his shoulders and "sure he plays schools cup rugby for Methody, not sure how long we'll have him for". That can happen anywhere but there doesn't seem to be the connection to adult hurling/football teams there as yet whereas it's a given in some other places. Must be soul destroying for the coaches at times.
I can only think of one lad currently on the Down senior hurling panel from South Belfast at the minute, if even that and its not as if its a strong panel.

On the county development squads I'm in total agreement with Joe as they are getting in the way of clubs developing youngsters due to the asks put on those picked to go on them. The clubs are having to put training and games on hold far too much.
They are meant to supplement clubs and not replace them as per the Kilkenny model.

Someone touched on the recreational aspect and back in my day that was what we called the thirds team or turds, aka junior team where the lads didn't train, were either shite but loved the game, were retired from serious stuff and in it for the craic or the young lads cutting their teeth (literally) at the adult game as well as play underage.
It wasn't for everybody  ;D

Back in the day it was your parish as such, kids played and went to St Galls school, there was a st Paul's Parish, Gorts and Ardoyne and St Endas to an extent would be parish clubs as such, the rest, well, kids grow up and move , Bredagh would be generally all from te one area as would St Brigid's, as for Rossa, ourselves and the rest, they are from all over, some of the bigger clubs are to blame in fairness, scooping up kids from schools before they had a chance to go to their local club, and that was when coaches went into the schools..

I'd be half a mile from my club growing up, but I'd have past Rossa O'D's The Johnnies before getting to my club, (more or less) in the other direction the same distance would have been McDee's, Dywers (closed shop ;) ) and Davitts, which had a coach assigned to my school.. You just went to the club that gave out the free bottles of coke after a match  ;D
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Orchard park

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4368 on: April 16, 2018, 03:35:38 PM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

general_lee

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4369 on: April 16, 2018, 03:49:40 PM »
Find it borderline ridiculous that a club can go from winning the minor championship last year to not fielding a minor team this year. Is there no lower grade they could enter and play 13-aside?

My experience of playing Belfast teams at u16 and minor back in the day in challenge games is that they always had big numbers, the players were all bigger, there was always one player that looked about 30 and they always told you that they didn’t even have their full team cos half the panel played were away with antrim.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4370 on: April 16, 2018, 04:18:02 PM »
Find it borderline ridiculous that a club can go from winning the minor championship last year to not fielding a minor team this year. Is there no lower grade they could enter and play 13-aside?

My experience of playing Belfast teams at u16 and minor back in the day in challenge games is that they always had big numbers, the players were all bigger, there was always one player that looked about 30 and they always told you that they didn’t even have their full team cos half the panel played were away with antrim.

At juvenile there was always a big kid on the teams, they all evened out come senior (well not me ffs) The Johnnies always had the bigger lad..

Lower grades playing 13 a-side would be perfect tbh.. I see no reason for this to happen
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

heffo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4371 on: April 16, 2018, 04:27:52 PM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......


No parish rule in Dublin - the club Steering committee would typically look at what they're getting out of different schools and concentrate resources accordingly - lots of schools in Dublin with crossover between clubs.

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4372 on: April 16, 2018, 04:34:02 PM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

Carryduff you mean!

Compared to some South Dublin clubs I'm sure it does seem reasonable but then again hurling isn't seen as a working class sport in a lot of those areas.

I know we couldn't ask for such memberships and hope to have any youngsters come through the gates.

Orchard park

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4373 on: April 16, 2018, 04:36:22 PM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

Carryduff you mean!

Compared to some South Dublin clubs I'm sure it does seem reasonable but then again hurling isn't seen as a working class sport in a lot of those areas.

I know we couldn't ask for such memberships and hope to have any youngsters come through the gates.

Carryduff i meant........Bredagh are £70


90% of all dublin clubs would be at this rate and more I believe. Clubs only charge what its costing to run the show presumably

Is there a parish rule in Antrim and Down ??
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:38:25 PM by Orchard park »

Jinxy

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4374 on: April 16, 2018, 05:14:09 PM »
Find it borderline ridiculous that a club can go from winning the minor championship last year to not fielding a minor team this year. Is there no lower grade they could enter and play 13-aside?

My experience of playing Belfast teams at u16 and minor back in the day in challenge games is that they always had big numbers, the players were all bigger, there was always one player that looked about 30 and they always told you that they didn’t even have their full team cos half the panel played were away with antrim.

We had the same craic playing challenge games against Dublin teams.
Plenty of lads called 'Anto' that looked like they were out on day release from Mountjoy.
You'd be wary of going too far ahead of them in case they might get 'bored'.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Croí na hÉireann

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4375 on: April 17, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

Carryduff you mean!

Compared to some South Dublin clubs I'm sure it does seem reasonable but then again hurling isn't seen as a working class sport in a lot of those areas.

I know we couldn't ask for such memberships and hope to have any youngsters come through the gates.

Carryduff i meant........Bredagh are £70


90% of all dublin clubs would be at this rate and more I believe. Clubs only charge what its costing to run the show presumably

Is there a parish rule in Antrim and Down ??

Most Dublin clubs, certainly the bigger dual ones, would be close to €200 for juveniles. Their academys would be close to €100. Pitch hire for all these kids is an expensive business.
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trailer

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4376 on: April 17, 2018, 10:31:37 AM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

Carryduff you mean!

Compared to some South Dublin clubs I'm sure it does seem reasonable but then again hurling isn't seen as a working class sport in a lot of those areas.

I know we couldn't ask for such memberships and hope to have any youngsters come through the gates.

Carryduff i meant........Bredagh are £70


90% of all dublin clubs would be at this rate and more I believe. Clubs only charge what its costing to run the show presumably

Is there a parish rule in Antrim and Down ??

Most Dublin clubs, certainly the bigger dual ones, would be close to €200 for juveniles. Their academys would be close to €100. Pitch hire for all these kids is an expensive business.

I think these costs are incredible. But then if it is expensive for pitches etc. I always loved that our games were more or less free. £5 or £10 yearly membership. Surely these costs are prohibitive to lots of families? If you have 3 or 4 children at €200 a pop, plus boots, jerseys, shorts etc. It would work into almost a €1000 for the year?

Orchard park

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4377 on: April 17, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »
All would obviously do family memberships so it could be capped at say 400 or 450

competitor team sports all charge more....

None of those clubs are putting it away in savings accounts so I presume they try to match membership fees to operational expenses

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4378 on: April 17, 2018, 10:43:22 AM »
In Dublin I believe the county board assigns the schools to each club and then that clubs GPO can only attend those schools......

co board needs to take over inter club bickering and work out a system that will maximise the numbers playing irrespective of what club.

Don't see any issue with Bredagh's fees at all

Carryduff you mean!

Compared to some South Dublin clubs I'm sure it does seem reasonable but then again hurling isn't seen as a working class sport in a lot of those areas.

I know we couldn't ask for such memberships and hope to have any youngsters come through the gates.

Carryduff i meant........Bredagh are £70


90% of all dublin clubs would be at this rate and more I believe. Clubs only charge what its costing to run the show presumably

Is there a parish rule in Antrim and Down ??

In Rural Down, by and large there is a parish rule, not sure how the likes of Newry operate with more than one club in it. Most largish towns have only one club, i.e Downpatrick, Newcastle, Warrenpoint, Castlewellan etc, etc.
In theory Carryduff and Bredagh would be separate parishes but I'm sure there's a cross over depending on who lives where.
There could be the odd exceptions that I'm not aware of.



Orchard park

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #4379 on: April 17, 2018, 10:45:47 AM »
Thanks Johnny

every county seems to differ but weaker clubs to my eyes suffer most where no parish rule exists