Ashers cake controversy.

Started by T Fearon, November 07, 2014, 06:36:39 PM

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Rossfan

Its all about the slogan.
If I had a cake shop and someone asked me to bake a cake with "Bring back hanging" on it I'd tell them where to go.
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David McKeown

I haven't had an opportunity to read the judgement but my initial reaction is one of disappointment. I agreed whole heartedly with the issue raised by the judge at first instant. This wasn't a case of direct discrimination on the basis that Mr Lee was discriminated against because of his sexuality. This was indirect discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sexuality. Indirect discrimination needs to be prevented as well.

I look forward to reading how the Supreme Court dealt with this issue.
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Aaron Boone

Quote from: David McKeown on October 10, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I haven't had an opportunity to read the judgement but my initial reaction is one of disappointment. I agreed whole heartedly with the issue raised by the judge at first instant. This wasn't a case of direct discrimination on the basis that Mr Lee was discriminated against because of his sexuality. This was indirect discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sexuality. Indirect discrimination needs to be prevented as well.

I look forward to reading how the Supreme Court dealt with this issue.
On this message board, your judgement is above the Supreme Court David.

five points

#498
Quote from: David McKeown on October 10, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I haven't had an opportunity to read the judgement but my initial reaction is one of disappointment. I agreed whole heartedly with the issue raised by the judge at first instant. This wasn't a case of direct discrimination on the basis that Mr Lee was discriminated against because of his sexuality. This was indirect discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sexuality. Indirect discrimination needs to be prevented as well.

I look forward to reading how the Supreme Court dealt with this issue.
Makes no sense. Otherwise I could march into a bakery in West Belfast and demand that they produce a cake with a "SUPPORT THE LVF!"slogan and it would be discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sectarian or political background.

whitey

Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2018, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 10, 2018, 10:31:28 AM
Supreme court rules in favour of Asher's.

I think that's the correct outcome. You should be allowed to accept or decline any work you see fit.

Agreed-assuming that the customer can access a similar product or service without undue hardship

JohnDenver

Quote from: five points on October 10, 2018, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on October 10, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I haven't had an opportunity to read the judgement but my initial reaction is one of disappointment. I agreed whole heartedly with the issue raised by the judge at first instant. This wasn't a case of direct discrimination on the basis that Mr Lee was discriminated against because of his sexuality. This was indirect discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sexuality. Indirect discrimination needs to be prevented as well.

I look forward to reading how the Supreme Court dealt with this issue.
Makes no sense. Otherwise I could march into a bakery in West Belfast and demand that they produce a cake with a "SUPPORT THE LVF!"slogan and it would be discrimination on the basis that those who would request such a message would predominantly be of the same sectarian or political background.

The Shankill is in West Belfast, so work away  :P

five points


Minder

Do I remember correctly the fella "targeted" Ashers knowing they wouldn't make the cake and it would be a big shit storm ?
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

trueblue1234

Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2018, 12:24:13 PM
Do I remember correctly the fella "targeted" Ashers knowing they wouldn't make the cake and it would be a big shit storm ?

While I'm unsure about the ruling as it does raise some interesting issues and conflict, I certainly would have no sympathy for the "victim" the way you normally would in a discrimination case. The whole thing just felt engineered
.
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GetOverTheBar

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2018, 12:36:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2018, 12:24:13 PM
Do I remember correctly the fella "targeted" Ashers knowing they wouldn't make the cake and it would be a big shit storm ?

While I'm unsure about the ruling as it does raise some interesting issues and conflict, I certainly would have no sympathy for the "victim" the way you normally would in a discrimination case. The whole thing just felt engineered
.

Not to mention the reported 250k fee that the tax payer will pick up on the whole thing.

Ethan Tremblay

Think it was the wrong decision, strictly for the fact that they are citing their deeply held religious beliefs as the reasoning.  Are they denying services to adulterers, divorced couples, those who engage in premarital sex etc.

Cherry picking orthodox morality looks suspiciously like bigotry.
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dublin7

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 10, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2018, 12:36:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2018, 12:24:13 PM
Do I remember correctly the fella "targeted" Ashers knowing they wouldn't make the cake and it would be a big shit storm ?

While I'm unsure about the ruling as it does raise some interesting issues and conflict, I certainly would have no sympathy for the "victim" the way you normally would in a discrimination case. The whole thing just felt engineered
.

Not to mention the reported 250k fee that the tax payer will pick up on the whole thing.

Final bill will be closer to £750k than £250k. Never had any sympathy myself either for the "alleged victim". The cake store were willing to bake him a cake, it's just the decorations on the cake he wanted they refused. That to me is their personal choice and nothing to do with Mr.Lee's sexual orientation and I don't see how the case even got so far. If it was his own money on the line when he sued the cake shop maybe he would have taken the sensible option instead and just gone to another cake shop!!


themac_23

Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on October 10, 2018, 12:47:54 PM
Think it was the wrong decision, strictly for the fact that they are citing their deeply held religious beliefs as the reasoning.  Are they denying services to adulterers, divorced couples, those who engage in premarital sex etc.

Cherry picking orthodox morality looks suspiciously like bigotry.

All joking aside, did you read the ruling?

BennyCake

Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2018, 12:24:13 PM
Do I remember correctly the fella "targeted" Ashers knowing they wouldn't make the cake and it would be a big shit storm ?

Sure isn't that exactly what goes on between SF and dup.

J70

Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2018, 11:18:57 AM
Its all about the slogan.
If I had a cake shop and someone asked me to bake a cake with "Bring back hanging" on it I'd tell them where to go.

What was the slogan they were looking to have inscribed?

(I live in the US and I'm not up to date with the details of this case).