Colm O'Rourke's need for a 'socialist' GAA

[Zulu]

So St. Vincents membership has gone from a claimed 25,000 to 971? That's some difference which brings into question the validity of anything said by the poster who made the 25,000 claim.

I simply don't get the Dub bashing that's going on here. If there is money going to Dublin that can be given to anyone and there are other counties with plans and the capacity to use the funds efficiently then fine. I doubt very much that the top brass in the GAA, most of whom are not Dubs want to create a Dublin GAA monster and hold back other counties at the same time. The GAA has already identified other counties for additional funding and I'm sure it would look favourably on applications for funding from counties who have a good plan.

Why are Kerry going for 4 in a row minor All Irelands? While there may be merit in criticising some element of the Dubs funding that doesn't excuse the performances of some big counties at underage level. To be fair both Kildare and Meath seem to be getting their house in order at underage level too.

[Lar Naparka]

I think Dublin getting organised in the fuball is a bit like if England got organised in the rugby. A representative sport with imbalanced populations is very tricky.

Except Rugby is a professional game. The GAA was built on an amateur ethos and while some counties have flirted with professionalism here and there, Dublin

To read some posters say money has nothing to do with it is idiotic and galling. It has a 'let them eat cake' feel to the whole thing. Dublin clubs have GDOs coming out their arses. They pay half the wage and the CB (funded by the GAA ie us) pay the other half.

"The club pays the other half"....St Vincents have a membership of 25,000 or so, which is a little less than the population of Leitrim. Dublin posters act like money had nothing to do with this and that this is because of the "plan". If that was the case, pull the funding now across the board and see where Dublin drift to.

The GAA money started rolling in back about 12-15 years ago. Where were Dublin then? Nowhere. Could barely compete in Leinster ffs. Now they're heading for 8 in a row in Leinster and 3 in a row All Irelands. But money had nothing to do with it.

I know a sizeable club in Meath who has just set about becoming the first Meath club with a GDO. Meath CB refused to look after the other half. I suppose they reckoned they'd soon be looking at a wage bill of €500k-1m if they went down that road.

Posters asking what should be done? Stop funding Dublin. Let them carry their out their great plan without the GAA/sports council money. Start looking at lower level counties and where they are at in terms of football & hurling. Start funding them in an inversely proportional manner to their standing. I'm sure some genius could come up with a logarithm to do the calc.

Dublin have bought their All Ireland titles the same way as Man City have bought their Premiership titles. These period of the GAA could be looked back on as a folly - like the architectural follies you see about, built by men with too much money with a flawed idea on what they wanted. It strikes me too, that the GAA may have painted themselves into a corner. When you have John Costello deciding that the Dublin funding won't stop, things are in a bad place.

Wasn't going to comment on this Dub bashing thread as there are dozens of Dublin hate threads on this forum, but Vincent's does not have 25,000 members. That is the craziest figure I have seen on this board, from the Ewan McKenna school of maths.

How do I know, because I am heavily involved.

As for your other comments just rubbish mate and your posting here under a different user name but we know who you are.

And so are you mate. You were on here last year as The Aristocrat and I dunno the reason for your reincarnation under another username. The pity is and was that you can be a capable debater and an insightful pundit until you start to lose the plot and resort to smart ass comments and generally puerile behaviour.
I also have contacts in Vincents and I know the club has a membership of 971, at the last count.

I'm just the voice for those who have none. Its difficult to debate with people who use hate over reason and logic and who write like that themselves. Lots of smart ass comments on this forums and cheap digs....

WTF is this all about?? 
The only one I see throwing cheap digs is you.
You keep referring to an individual as "Spewan" McKenna, as if vindictiveness is a form of wit.
Yet you haven't made the slightest attempt to answer any of his points you find issue with.
I have gone on record here umpteen time to emphasise that I don't hold Jim Gavin or his players to be responsible for the massive imbalance between Dublin and the rest of the country. I like Jim and wish our buck as half as shrewd.
Socio-political reasons have led to the population of Dublin increasing rapidly while the rest of the country lagging behind.
Any "cheap digs" as you call genuine criticism can be put down to the cute hoor streak in many Dub posters here and elsewhere.
Crap like Dublin's success is totally due to the innate talent of the present members of the team. Where Berno and Clucko  and Dermo retire, things will return to normal. No mention of the likes of Fenton, Kilkenny and a steady stream of others coming along the assembly line.
The list could go on and on but I see no point in moaning about Dublin's advantage over every other team in the land. Moaning won't change anything.
Maybe you see nothing strange in having one team represent a population equal to that of 21 other counties!
A level playing pitch, me posterior!

[manfromdelmonte]

So St. Vincents membership has gone from a claimed 25,000 to 971? That's some difference which brings into question the validity of anything said by the poster who made the 25,000 claim.

I simply don't get the Dub bashing that's going on here. If there is money going to Dublin that can be given to anyone and there are other counties with plans and the capacity to use the funds efficiently then fine. I doubt very much that the top brass in the GAA, most of whom are not Dubs want to create a Dublin GAA monster and hold back other counties at the same time. The GAA has already identified other counties for additional funding and I'm sure it would look favourably on applications for funding from counties who have a good plan.

Why are Kerry going for 4 in a row minor All Irelands? While there may be merit in criticising some element of the Dubs funding that doesn't excuse the performances of some big counties at underage level. To be fair both Kildare and Meath seem to be getting their house in order at underage level too.

other county boards look for more money for coaching projects all the time, with plans done up etc
nope, no money for that.

[TheGreatest]

I think Dublin getting organised in the fuball is a bit like if England got organised in the rugby. A representative sport with imbalanced populations is very tricky.

Except Rugby is a professional game. The GAA was built on an amateur ethos and while some counties have flirted with professionalism here and there, Dublin

To read some posters say money has nothing to do with it is idiotic and galling. It has a 'let them eat cake' feel to the whole thing. Dublin clubs have GDOs coming out their arses. They pay half the wage and the CB (funded by the GAA ie us) pay the other half.

"The club pays the other half"....St Vincents have a membership of 25,000 or so, which is a little less than the population of Leitrim. Dublin posters act like money had nothing to do with this and that this is because of the "plan". If that was the case, pull the funding now across the board and see where Dublin drift to.

The GAA money started rolling in back about 12-15 years ago. Where were Dublin then? Nowhere. Could barely compete in Leinster ffs. Now they're heading for 8 in a row in Leinster and 3 in a row All Irelands. But money had nothing to do with it.

I know a sizeable club in Meath who has just set about becoming the first Meath club with a GDO. Meath CB refused to look after the other half. I suppose they reckoned they'd soon be looking at a wage bill of €500k-1m if they went down that road.

Posters asking what should be done? Stop funding Dublin. Let them carry their out their great plan without the GAA/sports council money. Start looking at lower level counties and where they are at in terms of football & hurling. Start funding them in an inversely proportional manner to their standing. I'm sure some genius could come up with a logarithm to do the calc.

Dublin have bought their All Ireland titles the same way as Man City have bought their Premiership titles. These period of the GAA could be looked back on as a folly - like the architectural follies you see about, built by men with too much money with a flawed idea on what they wanted. It strikes me too, that the GAA may have painted themselves into a corner. When you have John Costello deciding that the Dublin funding won't stop, things are in a bad place.

Wasn't going to comment on this Dub bashing thread as there are dozens of Dublin hate threads on this forum, but Vincent's does not have 25,000 members. That is the craziest figure I have seen on this board, from the Ewan McKenna school of maths.

How do I know, because I am heavily involved.

As for your other comments just rubbish mate and your posting here under a different user name but we know who you are.

And so are you mate. You were on here last year as The Aristocrat and I dunno the reason for your reincarnation under another username. The pity is and was that you can be a capable debater and an insightful pundit until you start to lose the plot and resort to smart ass comments and generally puerile behaviour.
I also have contacts in Vincents and I know the club has a membership of 971, at the last count.

I'm just the voice for those who have none. Its difficult to debate with people who use hate over reason and logic and who write like that themselves. Lots of smart ass comments on this forums and cheap digs....

WTF is this all about?? 
The only one I see throwing cheap digs is you.
You keep referring to an individual as "Spewan" McKenna, as if vindictiveness is a form of wit.
Yet you haven't made the slightest attempt to answer any of his points you find issue with.
I have gone on record here umpteen time to emphasise that I don't hold Jim Gavin or his players to be responsible for the massive imbalance between Dublin and the rest of the country. I like Jim and wish our buck as half as shrewd.
Socio-political reasons have led to the population of Dublin increasing rapidly while the rest of the country lagging behind.
Any "cheap digs" as you call genuine criticism can be put down to the cute hoor streak in many Dub posters here and elsewhere.
Crap like Dublin's success is totally due to the innate talent of the present members of the team. Where Berno and Clucko  and Dermo retire, things will return to normal. No mention of the likes of Fenton, Kilkenny and a steady stream of others coming along the assembly line.
The list could go on and on but I see no point in moaning about Dublin's advantage over every other team in the land. Moaning won't change anything.
Maybe you see nothing strange in having one team represent a population equal to that of 21 other counties!
A level playing pitch, me posterior!

I'm sorry but I don't follow all your posts to comment on what type of posters you are.

6 current players fathers played for Dublin = Natural talent. Most other players come from GAA families.

Fenton was noticed at 19/20 playing junior B football for Raheny, hardly a product of a production line, he never player minor football for Dublin, he played 1 year of U-21. His background was swimming which contributed to his athleticism and his father is from Kerry that contributed to his footballing ability no doubt. This kind off disproves a lot of the financed coaching rubbish spouted by outsiders here.

The old guys didn't come through the system (Cluxton, B.Brogan etc.) as much as the new crop, Costello, Mannion, COC etc. Which im sure might have their own story.

Sound like you have a gripe with the GAA, not Dublin, that's grand.

I have posted here many many times regarding this issue, a lot of so called facts posted by people have turned out to be untrue or factually incorrect and has become tiresome.

[sid waddell]

Everyone supports getting children un Dublin schools to play GAA. It is the aggregate effect of so many schools on club and county competitions that we are worried about. As you well know.

This sentence doesn't make any sense.

I read it and understood it, Sid. Put on your monocle.

The only reading I can get from it is that armaghniac suggests the way to make club and county GAA competitions more competitive is to lessen the number of schools in Dublin.

I don't think that would be a good idea, for all sorts of reasons.

Don't be pretending to be thick. If there is a club for every 2 schools or so and if 50 or so of these clubs are gathered into a county, then there isn't a problem.

I'm not pretending to be thick.

I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make, and I don't think you are either. Whatever point you're trying to make is poorly written.

There are around 90 GAA clubs in Dublin, for your information.

[sid waddell]

I think Dublin getting organised in the fuball is a bit like if England got organised in the rugby. A representative sport with imbalanced populations is very tricky.

Except Rugby is a professional game. The GAA was built on an amateur ethos and while some counties have flirted with professionalism here and there, Dublin

What's your point?

Representative sport always contains fundamental imbalances.

If the point of all this is simply to advocate for Dublin GAA being broken up, just cut to the chase.

Here's the dirty truth - Dublin isn't even a county.

If you think Dublin isn't a county and should be broken up, then you should also be advocating for six county teams to be broken up into the 11 local government districts they have there.

But it would be terribly hypocritical to advocate for Dublin to be broken up based on the fact it has four different council areas and not advocate for six county teams to be broken up similarly based on council areas.

And that would also mean Cork would have to be broken up, given that it has separate city and county councils, just like Dublin does.

[Lar Naparka]

the most important link in any club is between school and club, and every club in Dublin seems to have a full time person in charge of that and driving coaching standards in the club

Dublin schools have a very poor record in provincial and national competitions.

No Dublin school has won the Hogan Cup since 1959 and no Dublin school has reached the final of it since 1998. Before that it was 1986.

Schools are not a big driver of Dublin's success at all.

County youth development squads are but even then Dublin have only won one All-Ireland at minor grade since 1984.

U-21 level is where Dublin have stolen a big march on other counties over the last 10 years or so.

But population base, organisation, exchange of information, working with third level colleges and having access to good facilities and expertise is not part of some overarching "capitalist agenda".

It's merely getting your house in order to make use of your natural advantages.

primary schools
getting paid coaches into almost EVERY primary school has maximised playing numbers in every club across Dublin

I never mentioned secondary schools

Primary schools have sod all to do with the success of the Dublin senior team or Dublin GAA in general.

I find it incredible how people would moan about any club maximising playing numbers.

This thread started off as rant about a "capitalist agenda", yet now it's turned into an argument about the unfairness to other counties of Dublin clubs attracting children to play GAA?

Sorry Sid but primary schools have sod everything to do with the success of Dublin GAA ...
I was involved with Cumann na mBunscol and juvenile football in general for more than 30 years and if you didn't have one or more teachers actively pushing Gaelic games in every boys school in the county, you'd have very few kids walking in off the street to their local GAA club to sign up.
Most of those schools have a working relationship with clubs in the area and generally depend on clubs to allow them to play games on club pitches the likes and in return schools will encourage youngsters to play with the clubs in question.
A symbiotic relationship, in other words.
As far back as 20 years ago, (or even longer) clubs were sending coaches into Primary schools to assist with coaching the kids who wanted to play Gaelic games. Generally, it was otherwise unemployed late teenagers who were on FÁS courses.
That was the case in Erin's Isle anyway and here there were two coaches involved, one of them paid by the club. Seems the present day system is very similar.
Nowadays, clubs find the influx of Primary children is lessening as the number of males involved in teaching is dropping year by year so clubs are becoming more proactive in keeping feeder streams going.
I can think of a few schools offhand where the club gets someone to takeover the management of a school team so that the club will continue to get kids from those schools to continue to play club football as well.
While I'm at it, the low number of school players who go on to play club football is very low and of those who join, a good few will drop out after a year or so. That's down to a lot of other reasons, not directly connected to Primary schools but there would be even fewer continuing to play Gaelic if they didn't start off in school.
The percentage of Dublin kids who play Gaelic football or hurling as their primary sport is very low. I'd put it as less than 5% and even at that there is (or was) someone in every boys' school in the county actively promoting Gaelic games.

[Dave like the tv channel]

As for your other comments just rubbish mate and your posting here under a different user name but we know who you are.

Oh yeah? Who? We now know why your username is not TheBrightest.....

[Dave like the tv channel]

I'm sorry but I don't follow all your posts to comment on what type of posters you are.

6 current players fathers played for Dublin = Natural talent. Most other players come from GAA families.

Fenton was noticed at 19/20 playing junior B football for Raheny, hardly a product of a production line, he never player minor football for Dublin, he played 1 year of U-21. His background was swimming which contributed to his athleticism and his father is from Kerry that contributed to his footballing ability no doubt. This kind off disproves a lot of the financed coaching rubbish spouted by outsiders here.

The old guys didn't come through the system (Cluxton, B.Brogan etc.) as much as the new crop, Costello, Mannion, COC etc. Which im sure might have their own story.

Sound like you have a gripe with the GAA, not Dublin, that's grand.

I have posted here many many times regarding this issue, a lot of so called facts posted by people have turned out to be untrue or factually incorrect and has become tiresome.

I'm convinced. Your vast sample of ONE (Fento) really puts to bed the argument that the €15m+ given to Dublin over the past 12 or so years has ANYTHING to do with Dublin's success.

If it has nothing to do with it, why has Costello stated that it should not be taken away? Surely if you're doing it on your own, as many Dubs claim, then this should be the case??

[Zulu]

I'm sorry but I don't follow all your posts to comment on what type of posters you are.

6 current players fathers played for Dublin = Natural talent. Most other players come from GAA families.

Fenton was noticed at 19/20 playing junior B football for Raheny, hardly a product of a production line, he never player minor football for Dublin, he played 1 year of U-21. His background was swimming which contributed to his athleticism and his father is from Kerry that contributed to his footballing ability no doubt. This kind off disproves a lot of the financed coaching rubbish spouted by outsiders here.

The old guys didn't come through the system (Cluxton, B.Brogan etc.) as much as the new crop, Costello, Mannion, COC etc. Which im sure might have their own story.

Sound like you have a gripe with the GAA, not Dublin, that's grand.

I have posted here many many times regarding this issue, a lot of so called facts posted by people have turned out to be untrue or factually incorrect and has become tiresome.

I'm convinced. Your vast sample of ONE (Fento) really puts to bed the argument that the €15m+ given to Dublin over the past 12 or so years has ANYTHING to do with Dublin's success.

If it has nothing to do with it, why has Costello stated that it should not be taken away? Surely if you're doing it on your own, as many Dubs claim, then this should be the case??

Can you tell us why you apparently added 24,000 people to the real membership of St. Vincents GAA club? 

[seafoid]

So St. Vincents membership has gone from a claimed 25,000 to 971? That's some difference which brings into question the validity of anything said by the poster who made the 25,000 claim.

I simply don't get the Dub bashing that's going on here. If there is money going to Dublin that can be given to anyone and there are other counties with plans and the capacity to use the funds efficiently then fine. I doubt very much that the top brass in the GAA, most of whom are not Dubs want to create a Dublin GAA monster and hold back other counties at the same time. The GAA has already identified other counties for additional funding and I'm sure it would look favourably on applications for funding from counties who have a good plan.

Why are Kerry going for 4 in a row minor All Irelands? While there may be merit in criticising some element of the Dubs funding that doesn't excuse the performances of some big counties at underage level. To be fair both Kildare and Meath seem to be getting their house in order at underage level too.

The St Vincents membership is a FRED process. Fast rise. Exponential decay

[Dave like the tv channel]

Can you tell us why you apparently added 24,000 people to the real membership of St. Vincents GAA club?

Well, so far, it's as valid as your number.

[TheGreatest]

As for your other comments just rubbish mate and your posting here under a different user name but we know who you are.

Oh yeah? Who? We now know why your username is not TheBrightest.....

Sorry just lost all credibility, have a good day.

[Dave like the tv channel]

Sorry just lost all credibility, have a good day.

Based on what?

[manfromdelmonte]

55 full time GAA coaches tells its own story

they are the full time link between clubs and primary schools.
they feed the kids to the clubs
they help to structure the underage coaching in clubs - especially nursery sections and best practice up through the grades
they identify talent for the county squads
they assist with county development squad coaching