Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

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Milltown Row2

I think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

armaghniac

QuoteAnd we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.

QuoteI think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it

You see the power of Tyrone and Armagh! Build the thing about Blackwatertown.
Not quite 20,000 I think, perhaps 18,000, but formidable all the same.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Maguire01

Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:53:27 PM
QuoteAnd we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.
But that's the exception, not the rule. There's nothing wrong with having matches at a neutral venue if it's known that the home venue isn't big enough. But why, for example, would you have the likes of Derry/Donegal, Derry/Antrim, Antrim/Down, Cavan/Monaghan, Cavan/Fermanagh, Antrim/Cavan at a neutral venue for a first round game?

GrandMasterFlash

#603
Quote from: armaghniac on June 11, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.

And here's another exception.. Arguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park and probably thought they'd save their money for the semi-final!

And, why on earth would you want to play all games at neutral venues? Admittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.

The Tyrone v Armagh games of the early noughties were an exception and if the same set of exceptioanl circumstances arise again the same outcome will happen. I don't mind this as it is blue moon stuff...

Anyhow, I reckon the Casement Park redevelopment is intended for events other that football/hurling i.e. concerts, festivals etc.

I'm sure it has been mentioned on this thread already but given the political wranglings that have occurred to date I reckon this was last chance saloon for the sporting bodies i.e. take the money now lads and develop your stadia (i.e. Ravenhill, Windsor Park, Casement Park) or lose it as the sh*te is being cut out of this block grant we're getting from Westminster..

armaghniac

QuoteArguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.

QuoteAdmittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.

The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

In any case when this place is built in Belfast the Ulster council will have a sudden passion for neutral venues and every game with half a crowd will be moved there to try and justify the place, so perhaps it is just as well that Donegal got their game this year.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

johnneycool

Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
Quote

The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.


up until the qualifiers you never traveled outside your province to a championship game and everything after that is in Croke park.
At worst you'd be 2 hours traveling in a car. Taking the likes of the Donegal/Tyrone game to Clones just wouldn't make any sense as they border each other.

Now there's the likes of Tyrone traveling to Killarney for a championship game which puts a greater burden on the away support and no doubt affects attendances and maybe a neutral venue should be considered for these games.

snoopdog

neutral venues would mean Pairc Esler, Celtic Park, Ballybofey would rarely if ever be used. Newry is one of the best grounds in Ulster and it never gets a championship game.

Maguire01

Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
QuoteArguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.
Actually it was me who mentioned Armagh, in which case yes, probably more Monaghan people but a lot less from Antrim. The biggest attendance though would probably have been in Clones, which obviously isn't neutral.

Maguire01

Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

regarding your reference to the Donegal/Tyrone game and your response above to another poster... again, this is the exception and note the rule. You said: "It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues". I'd imagine there would be a negative impact on attendance in most cases. Also, potential revenue wasn't lost for the Donegal/Tyrone game because it wasn't at a neutral venue, it was because the home venue wasn't big enough.

GrandMasterFlash

Which county board would benefit if all games were at neutral venues? The participating team's, the hosting county? Would it be split three ways?  :o

I really don't see the logic in hosting all championship games at neutral venues from any angle. As snoopdog rightly says, some stadiums would rarely if ever be used. There has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

armaghniac

QuoteThere has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Maguire01

Quote from: armaghniac on June 14, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
QuoteThere has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
I think his point GMF was making is that if you move the games to neutral venues, they won't even get that match every two years.

orangeman

Not so fast !

Legal challenge to GAA's Casement Park £70m redevelopment

Ulster GAA chiefs are facing a legal challenge over the planned £70m redevelopment of Casement Park stadium in west Belfast, it has emerged.

Two construction firms whose combined bid for the contract was unsuccessful have launched High Court proceedings to try to re-enter the tendering process.

Papers were lodged on behalf of Lagan Somague, a joint venture involving firms from NI and Portugal.

A new stadium is to be built on the site at a cost expected to top £70m.

Most of the funding is coming from the Northern Ireland Executive through the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL).

The redevelopment forms part of an overall £110m investment plan involving upgrades to the Ulster rugby ground at Ravenhill and Windsor Park football stadium.

A legal challenge by local soccer club Crusaders to the Windsor Park proposals is ongoing.

Now, however, proceedings have been brought against the GAA's Ulster Council.

The case is expected to centre on its duty as a contracting authority under European procurement regulations.

Lawyers for Lagan Somague are expected to argue that they have been wrongly knocked out of the tendering process.

An initial hearing is expected to take place in court next week.

Earlier this month, residents living close to Casement Park held a protest before the Ulster senior championship game between Antrim and Monaghan.

They gathered outside the ground on the Andersonstown Road in opposition to the proposed new 38,000-seater stadium.

They are worried about the height of the stadium blocking out natural light and its potential use for concerts.

Work on the redevelopment is due to begin before the end of the year.

The work is expected to last for 21 months and be completed by 2015.

Maguire01

Legal challenges on procurement decisions seems to be standard these days. This could significantly delay things.

Has the stadium got full planning permission yet?

Feckitt

With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?