Will you vote for Fianna Fail?

[Nally Stand]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

[johnneycool]

I'd have John Hume more as an Archbishop Desmond Tutu type figure in all fairness.

[LeoMc]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

[lawnseed]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime

[Maguire01]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime

I wouldn't be just as sure.

[Lar Naparka]

Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?

Since you asked me a direct question, I'll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he's telling the whole truth.
I wouldn't claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.

Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?

Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don't see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn't it?
You still haven't pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.

If your remark that:

few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.

wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.

Nah, I wasn't. I tried hard to make sure I wasn't giving any sort of a personal opinion/ belief or whatever when I replied to lawnseed.
He asked a question about voters in general and I replied in kind. I do believe that what I stated represents the majority view and nothing else.

Ater that, I'm not sure what you are looking for. Take this (your question) for instance.

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?

Now, (in my reply to lawnseed,) I said nothing of the sort.
For the umpteenth time, I told him what I believed was the majority view; nothing more and nothing less.
I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on the above question.

Here again:
"If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement..."

The fact that I believe he isn't telling the whole truth about (his knowledge of) Jean McConvile's disappearance stops a long way short of accusing him of being directly involved.
And here also:
then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
I never said anything of the sort.
I don't think I used the expression "quite possibly nobody" either. I used "few, if any" which isn't the same thing.
You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I'll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

That's all I wrote and that's what I'll stand over.

You said that "few, if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville". This is exactly the same as saying that "quite possibly nobody believes" he wasn't involved. "If any" implies that there may just be "nobody" who believes him. And your later stated view that he wasn't directly involved kinda contradicts the "if any" part of your "few, if any" remark, doesn't it?

You appear to misinterpret what I mean by "few, if any" so I'll attempt to oblige. Then maybe you will go back to the point at which you picked me up on my reply to lawnseed and indicate where I gave any sort of personal opinion about Gerry Adams or anyone else.
Here goes........
I have yet to come across any member of the public who has stated he/she totally believes Gerry Adams played no part whatever in Jean McConville's disappearance. That included all others who Disappeared as I pointed out..
I exclude only SF spokespeople, activists, canvassers etc.
(Incidentally, some of my former school pupils who work for the party accept that he was but the topical reaction is a shrug of the shoulders and a dismissive remark like, "So what? It was a fuckin' war, wasn't it?")
I cannot say with absolute certainty that nobody believes Adams is completely innocent of all charges levelled at him. But if there are some who do, they are few in number and they are keeping remarkably quiet about it.
Now maybe you'll go back and address the questions I put to you and quit stalling.

[lawnseed]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime

I wouldn't be just as sure.

In relation to jean mcconville her remains were found by a member  of the public its still a live case

[LeoMc]

What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime

And how do I prove a negative?

[muppet]

Gerry's past was controversial, to say the very least

So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!

You look at Mandela and only see a former 'terrorist'.

That is very sad.

Such sanctimonious crap. I am more than aware of Madiba's story. Your comparison of him with Hume shows you don't see him as never having been a "terrorist". Though I'd use the term ("Freedom Fighter").

On the contrary. My comparison with Hume is because he dealt with his enemy despite huge opposition from his own people.

My observation of Adams is that not only will he never do a Mandela with his enemies, but he wouldn't even do it with some of his own.

The criticism of Hume on here highlights that perfectly.

[lynchbhoy]

It's all about perspectives!
People's anti shinner/republican bias means they can never give credit or speak positively about shinners or republicans!
This is caused by decades of biased media propaganda about them!

People should start to realise after the recent ( but already brushed under the carpet as it's too damning) revelations about state establishment and participation in unionist/loyalist/security forces/Brit army death squads targeting innocent irish catholic nationalists - that maybe all the things the Irish nationalist republican Catholics in the six counties were saying might actually be true and their stories might be more accurate rather than the propaganda fed to the masses in Southern Ireland and globally!!!!!

Hume and McGuinness ( and grudgingly myself I have to admit Adams too) were both ends of the Mandela experience
That the experience happened right here is fecking shameful - but still yet nationalists/Catholics/republican/Irish are still biasedly thought of as ' the bad guys'  or at best 'both sides were the same' - no they f**king weren't.
Killing and what the IRA did was wrong, but there was boot her alternative and we are where we are today with so many lives intact because of them -yet with 3000+ deaths the primary indicator of what was lost

[lynchbhoy]

And I would vote ff again if they put up a credible candidate in my constituency - the last one is gone.
As long as their leadership can spell - it would be an improvement.
Though I'm becoming more apathetic about the parties and their self serving selfish td's

I'd just about be able to pick a decent gov out of the entire dail

[muppet]

It's all about perspectives!
People's anti shinner/republican bias means they can never give credit or speak positively about shinners or republicans!
This is caused by decades of biased media propaganda about them!

People should start to realise after the recent ( but already brushed under the carpet as it's too damning) revelations about state establishment and participation in unionist/loyalist/security forces/Brit army death squads targeting innocent irish catholic nationalists - that maybe all the things the Irish nationalist republican Catholics in the six counties were saying might actually be true and their stories might be more accurate rather than the propaganda fed to the masses in Southern Ireland and globally!!!!!

Hume and McGuinness ( and grudgingly myself I have to admit Adams too) were both ends of the Mandela experience
That the experience happened right here is fecking shameful - but still yet nationalists/Catholics/republican/Irish are still biasedly thought of as ' the bad guys'  or at best 'both sides were the same' - no they f**king weren't.
Killing and what the IRA did was wrong, but there was boot her alternative and we are where we are today with so many lives intact because of them -yet with 3000+ deaths the primary indicator of what was lost

SF signed up for the GFA and for that I am grateful and happy to give credit where it is due.

However my opinion is my own and certainly not based on a very lame southern media.

[lynchbhoy]

No offense chief
But how else could you form opinions on nordies!!

A few pints and a slagging in Quinn's a couple of times a year didn't give it to ya!!


I can understand why your opinion differs from mine at least!
- no big prob there!

[muppet]

No offense chief
But how else could you form opinions on nordies!!

A few pints and a slagging in Quinn's a couple of times a year didn't give it to ya!!


I can understand why your opinion differs from mine at least!
- no big prob there!

I spent a nearly two years up there.

(Don't remember most of it though - some craic  )

[lynchbhoy]

Hopefully it was post dark old days!

Hume was looked upon as a terrorist at the civil rights time
However others were deemed worse so John wasn't public enemy number one for too long

It's a pity his sdlp party turned into sihte without him