Project Ireland 2040

Started by OgraAnDun, February 16, 2018, 03:08:10 PM

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sid waddell

Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2018, 04:40:00 PM
All well and good - but what about the real problem coming down the tracks - the transition to a highly automated economy - an economy where maybe only 10-15% of people will actually be able to work better/cheaper than a robot/computer.

When the unskilled literally cannot "sweep the streets" because robots are doing that - as well as most other manual/low complexity labour - what do they do?

Our entire social system (which has existed since the barter economy was replaced) will be in jeopardy.

By 2100, we could easily see a world where:
- meat is grown in labs (reducing methane will be a driver of this as well as cost).
- crop farming is 90% robotic
- all cleaning services are robotic
- most lower-skilled jobs are automated (i.e. driving taxis or lorries/fast-food cooking/shop staff/site labouring)
- many repetitive task (even if complex) jobs are automated to dramatically reduce head-count (accountancy etc)
- even complex jobs like design may be done via machine learning algorithms rather than teams of architects/engineers.

You cannot have half the population on the dole provided for by the other half. It won't add up. Somewhere along the line in the next century massive social changes will have to occur. While obviously not an exclusively Irish problem - its a problem that will need more than an overnight thinking session to fix.

The job I'm doing now didn't even exist when I started in college. There'll be plenty of new jobs that pop up with new inventions. There weren't many diesel-engine mechanics in the days of horse-drawn transport.

Dolph1

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

No need for the language.

Do you trust the government to provide the services to facilitate this increase. Right now there are issues with schools, hospitals and access to many facilities including housing. Their track record on delivering isn't very good.
You still didn't specify where this extra 1 million people will come from. Is there a plan to seemlessly integrate a 20% increase in population or do they want to create a disjointed Ireland?
As I said, start upskilling and looking after our own population first.

Trump 2020. Making America Greater Again

Ball Hopper

How many emigrants plan to return (even in retirement) to Ireland?

sid waddell

#34
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 18, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

No need for the language.

Do you trust the government to provide the services to facilitate this increase. Right now there are issues with schools, hospitals and access to many facilities including housing. Their track record on delivering isn't very good.
You still didn't specify where this extra 1 million people will come from. Is there a plan to seemlessly integrate a 20% increase in population or do they want to create a disjointed Ireland?
As I said, start upskilling and looking after our own population first.
You're asking me to specify exactly where 1 million people will come from? Seriously?

I can't tell you exactly how many migrants will come from particular places, but they'll come from everywhere in the world. The biggest number will most likely come from Britain and other European countries based purely on geography and EU free movement.

Captalism is based on perpetual growth.

Birth rates all over Europe have collapsed.

In developed countries, it's estimated that the fertility rate needs to be 2.1 per woman to sustain the same level of population. Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU as of 2017 yet its still not enough to sustain the same level of population.

If we don't sustain populations, that means people's pensions go tits up and the economy stagnates at best.

Capitalism is ultimately a pyramid scheme because the planet cannot sustain perpetual growth, but that's a different issue and one that will require large-scale international co-operation to address.

It seems axiomatic to me that the main reason for Ireland's recent growth and quick recovery is our historic underdevelopment. We probably have the biggest potential for growth of any European country because of that. We have one of the lowest population densities in Europe.

But we still require significant in-migration to keep growing and developing.

All growing societies experience difficulties and "strains" on public services.

Dublin has always experienced "strain" over the last century because it has has always been a magnet for migration. Long before people came from other countries they were coming from other counties.

There's nothing wrong with "strains" on an economy. It's how you manage those strains that matters. Our problem isn't migration. It's with poor government management of housing, health and water.

A migrant from Donegal is a still a migrant and placed/places "strain" on services and resources.

Should the people of Dublin have cried "no culchies"?

Should the people of Drogheda, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Naas, Newbridge and Portlaoise and Gorey now cry "no Dubs"?

How many people lived in Shenzhen 30 years ago? How many people live there now?

You live in the US, don't you?

For all the problems the US has, and there are many, it's still the world's greatest experiment in the benefits of migration.








Mikhail Prokhorov

Quote from: Ball Hopper on December 18, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
How many emigrants plan to return (even in retirement) to Ireland?

nobody with intelligence anyway

Syferus

Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 19, 2018, 01:17:36 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on December 18, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
How many emigrants plan to return (even in retirement) to Ireland?

nobody with intelligence anyway

This post didn't need time to age badly.

armaghniac

Quote from: Ball Hopper on December 18, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
How many emigrants plan to return (even in retirement) to Ireland?

Probably about the same as the number of immigrants who will retire outside Ireland.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Dolph1

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2018, 12:25:00 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 18, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

No need for the language.

Do you trust the government to provide the services to facilitate this increase. Right now there are issues with schools, hospitals and access to many facilities including housing. Their track record on delivering isn't very good.
You still didn't specify where this extra 1 million people will come from. Is there a plan to seemlessly integrate a 20% increase in population or do they want to create a disjointed Ireland?
As I said, start upskilling and looking after our own population first.
You're asking me to specify exactly where 1 million people will come from? Seriously?

I can't tell you exactly how many migrants will come from particular places, but they'll come from everywhere in the world. The biggest number will most likely come from Britain and other European countries based purely on geography and EU free movement.

Captalism is based on perpetual growth.

Birth rates all over Europe have collapsed.

In developed countries, it's estimated that the fertility rate needs to be 2.1 per woman to sustain the same level of population. Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU as of 2017 yet its still not enough to sustain the same level of population.

If we don't sustain populations, that means people's pensions go tits up and the economy stagnates at best.

Capitalism is ultimately a pyramid scheme because the planet cannot sustain perpetual growth, but that's a different issue and one that will require large-scale international co-operation to address.

It seems axiomatic to me that the main reason for Ireland's recent growth and quick recovery is our historic underdevelopment. We probably have the biggest potential for growth of any European country because of that. We have one of the lowest population densities in Europe.

But we still require significant in-migration to keep growing and developing.

All growing societies experience difficulties and "strains" on public services.

Dublin has always experienced "strain" over the last century because it has has always been a magnet for migration. Long before people came from other countries they were coming from other counties.

There's nothing wrong with "strains" on an economy. It's how you manage those strains that matters. Our problem isn't migration. It's with poor government management of housing, health and water.

A migrant from Donegal is a still a migrant and placed/places "strain" on services and resources.

Should the people of Dublin have cried "no culchies"?

Should the people of Drogheda, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Naas, Newbridge and Portlaoise and Gorey now cry "no Dubs"?

How many people lived in Shenzhen 30 years ago? How many people live there now?

You live in the US, don't you?

For all the problems the US has, and there are many, it's still the world's greatest experiment in the benefits of migration.

This isn't the USA.

Growing and developing for who? Are regular people seeing the benefits? Rather than consolidate and improve services for people the likes of you want to keep the status quo, or worse, to accommodate an influx of new dependants.

Irish people aren't having as many kids because it's too expensive. How about government giving incentives for families, better tax breaks so they can flourish. Instead its pushing abortion.

1 million more is the lower end of the scale. Figures of an Ireland population up to 10 million by 2050 have been mooted.

People from Donegal are Irish. Maybe Santa can bring you a map for Christmas.
Trump 2020. Making America Greater Again

sid waddell

Quote from: Dolph1 on December 20, 2018, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2018, 12:25:00 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 18, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

No need for the language.

Do you trust the government to provide the services to facilitate this increase. Right now there are issues with schools, hospitals and access to many facilities including housing. Their track record on delivering isn't very good.
You still didn't specify where this extra 1 million people will come from. Is there a plan to seemlessly integrate a 20% increase in population or do they want to create a disjointed Ireland?
As I said, start upskilling and looking after our own population first.
You're asking me to specify exactly where 1 million people will come from? Seriously?

I can't tell you exactly how many migrants will come from particular places, but they'll come from everywhere in the world. The biggest number will most likely come from Britain and other European countries based purely on geography and EU free movement.

Captalism is based on perpetual growth.

Birth rates all over Europe have collapsed.

In developed countries, it's estimated that the fertility rate needs to be 2.1 per woman to sustain the same level of population. Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU as of 2017 yet its still not enough to sustain the same level of population.

If we don't sustain populations, that means people's pensions go tits up and the economy stagnates at best.

Capitalism is ultimately a pyramid scheme because the planet cannot sustain perpetual growth, but that's a different issue and one that will require large-scale international co-operation to address.

It seems axiomatic to me that the main reason for Ireland's recent growth and quick recovery is our historic underdevelopment. We probably have the biggest potential for growth of any European country because of that. We have one of the lowest population densities in Europe.

But we still require significant in-migration to keep growing and developing.

All growing societies experience difficulties and "strains" on public services.

Dublin has always experienced "strain" over the last century because it has has always been a magnet for migration. Long before people came from other countries they were coming from other counties.

There's nothing wrong with "strains" on an economy. It's how you manage those strains that matters. Our problem isn't migration. It's with poor government management of housing, health and water.

A migrant from Donegal is a still a migrant and placed/places "strain" on services and resources.

Should the people of Dublin have cried "no culchies"?

Should the people of Drogheda, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Naas, Newbridge and Portlaoise and Gorey now cry "no Dubs"?

How many people lived in Shenzhen 30 years ago? How many people live there now?

You live in the US, don't you?

For all the problems the US has, and there are many, it's still the world's greatest experiment in the benefits of migration.

This isn't the USA.

Growing and developing for who? Are regular people seeing the benefits? Rather than consolidate and improve services for people the likes of you want to keep the status quo, or worse, to accommodate an influx of new dependants.

Irish people aren't having as many kids because it's too expensive. How about government giving incentives for families, better tax breaks so they can flourish. Instead its pushing abortion.

1 million more is the lower end of the scale. Figures of an Ireland population up to 10 million by 2050 have been mooted.

People from Donegal are Irish. Maybe Santa can bring you a map for Christmas.
You say this isn't the USA. Where do you live, Adolph?

Em, Ireland has the highest birth rate in Europe.

It's also one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

Can you square that for me?

You did understand that people from Donegal who move to Dublin are migrants, yes? Well, apparently you don't.

None of the anti-migration nutcases understand this, because none of this is about migration, or "strains" on an economy or on places, or anything like that.

It's about straight up, naked racism. And of course you couldn't miss an opportunity to throw in a bit of misogyny either. Those two always go hand in hand.

It's f**king gas to see you suggest "incentives" for families to have children. The same people who vilify migrants are the same people who most vilify homeless people, people on social welfare and single mothers.

Patrick Pearse said Ireland could sustain a population of 30 million, by the way.



Dolph1

Quote from: sid waddell on December 20, 2018, 12:37:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 20, 2018, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2018, 12:25:00 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 18, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 13, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
Like what?
Compulsory abortion for all white babies?
Only Muslim immigrants allowed on to the Country?
George Soros behind it all?
Lord Lucan to return?

Could be none, could be all. If you read between the lines they would rather import than upskill. Who is this project actually going to benefit then?
Back to my original question. If the government are telling the country that they need 1 million more residents where are they going to get them from?

Bump for Rossfan and Sid Waddel. If you boys are so smart I can't wait for your explanation.
Hopefully they get them through inward migration, Adolph.

With a combination of thick, useless c***ts like you leaving and more able, intelligent people coming in from all over the world, the country cannot fail to benefit.

No need for the language.

Do you trust the government to provide the services to facilitate this increase. Right now there are issues with schools, hospitals and access to many facilities including housing. Their track record on delivering isn't very good.
You still didn't specify where this extra 1 million people will come from. Is there a plan to seemlessly integrate a 20% increase in population or do they want to create a disjointed Ireland?
As I said, start upskilling and looking after our own population first.
You're asking me to specify exactly where 1 million people will come from? Seriously?

I can't tell you exactly how many migrants will come from particular places, but they'll come from everywhere in the world. The biggest number will most likely come from Britain and other European countries based purely on geography and EU free movement.

Captalism is based on perpetual growth.

Birth rates all over Europe have collapsed.

In developed countries, it's estimated that the fertility rate needs to be 2.1 per woman to sustain the same level of population. Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU as of 2017 yet its still not enough to sustain the same level of population.

If we don't sustain populations, that means people's pensions go tits up and the economy stagnates at best.

Capitalism is ultimately a pyramid scheme because the planet cannot sustain perpetual growth, but that's a different issue and one that will require large-scale international co-operation to address.

It seems axiomatic to me that the main reason for Ireland's recent growth and quick recovery is our historic underdevelopment. We probably have the biggest potential for growth of any European country because of that. We have one of the lowest population densities in Europe.

But we still require significant in-migration to keep growing and developing.

All growing societies experience difficulties and "strains" on public services.

Dublin has always experienced "strain" over the last century because it has has always been a magnet for migration. Long before people came from other countries they were coming from other counties.

There's nothing wrong with "strains" on an economy. It's how you manage those strains that matters. Our problem isn't migration. It's with poor government management of housing, health and water.

A migrant from Donegal is a still a migrant and placed/places "strain" on services and resources.

Should the people of Dublin have cried "no culchies"?

Should the people of Drogheda, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Naas, Newbridge and Portlaoise and Gorey now cry "no Dubs"?

How many people lived in Shenzhen 30 years ago? How many people live there now?

You live in the US, don't you?

For all the problems the US has, and there are many, it's still the world's greatest experiment in the benefits of migration.

This isn't the USA.

Growing and developing for who? Are regular people seeing the benefits? Rather than consolidate and improve services for people the likes of you want to keep the status quo, or worse, to accommodate an influx of new dependants.

Irish people aren't having as many kids because it's too expensive. How about government giving incentives for families, better tax breaks so they can flourish. Instead its pushing abortion.

1 million more is the lower end of the scale. Figures of an Ireland population up to 10 million by 2050 have been mooted.

People from Donegal are Irish. Maybe Santa can bring you a map for Christmas.
You say this isn't the USA. Where do you live, Adolph?

Em, Ireland has the highest birth rate in Europe.

It's also one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

Can you square that for me?

You did understand that people from Donegal who move to Dublin are migrants, yes? Well, apparently you don't.

None of the anti-migration nutcases understand this, because none of this is about migration, or "strains" on an economy or on places, or anything like that.

It's about straight up, naked racism. And of course you couldn't miss an opportunity to throw in a bit of misogyny either. Those two always go hand in hand.

It's f**king gas to see you suggest "incentives" for families to have children. The same people who vilify migrants are the same people who most vilify homeless people, people on social welfare and single mothers.

Patrick Pearse said Ireland could sustain a population of 30 million, by the way.

Good man sid. When losing an argument defer to accusations of racism and misogyny. It's all you got.
Trump 2020. Making America Greater Again

sid waddell

Wow, what a devastating, well argued out, response, Adolph. You really showed me.  ;D

Hardy

Sid, J70 et al, you remind me of the BBC. Every time they have an expert on to describe the depredations of Brexit they feel the need to give equal time to a nutcase to present what they perceive to be the balancing case – everything will be fine because we're Britain or whatever. The two arguments don't carry equal weight. One is logic and facts; the other is not to be given the oxygen of attention.

I submit that's what you're doing with this nutjob and I suggest you do what we do with Seamus – roll our cyber eyes and move on to the sensible stuff.

Dolph1

Quote from: Hardy on December 20, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
... move on to the sensible stuff.

You mean have no actual thoughts of your own. Why bother when Fine Gael do the thinking for you ;)
Trump 2020. Making America Greater Again

sid waddell

#44
Quote from: Hardy on December 20, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
Sid, J70 et al, you remind me of the BBC. Every time they have an expert on to describe the depredations of Brexit they feel the need to give equal time to a nutcase to present what they perceive to be the balancing case – everything will be fine because we're Britain or whatever. The two arguments don't carry equal weight. One is logic and facts; the other is not to be given the oxygen of attention.

I submit that's what you're doing with this nutjob and I suggest you do what we do with Seamus – roll our cyber eyes and move on to the sensible stuff.
Sensible post - and you're right.

The far right never debate from a position of good faith. They "engage" based on outright lies and propaganda and never answer questions which blow apart their lies and propaganda.

You can't "out-debate" them - because they don't debate - that's their whole strategy - they just throw as much bullshit out there as they possibly can and see what sticks.

David Frum's recent article in The Atlantic on the regret he feels at platforming Steve Bannon is am enlightening read about this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/bannon-frum-munk-debate-what-really-happened/574867/

But it's also why the far right are so insidious and difficult to combat - in any society, there are a significant number of people who are only too happy to dispense with reality-based worldviews in favour of believing outright lies and propaganda. The posters you refer to are certainly in this category.

The last time there was an international rise of the far-right and all their associated lies and propaganda, it sadly took a World War to defeat it, and for it to be completely discredited and humiliated.

These far right war mongerers are definitely on the march again.