The IRISH RUGBY thread

[GetOverTheBar]

As a GAA follower of Rugby why can the national team not match the performances of the provinces?

The trouble is there are only four provinces and right now only one of them is up to scratch.

It's not even that, O'Gara was pretty much spot on after the game yesterday. Ireland have some really good players. They just don't have enough of them, what they do have is at least 1 or 2 levels below the better players in the team.

Having a good club set up doesn't necessarily translate into International success and vice versa. The Welsh club set up has been brutal for many years as Sid pointed out, yet they regularly challenge and arguably could have even been in two World Cup Finals in 2019 and 2011 if things went their way, especially in 2011. That was a world cup there for the taking for them. 

Similarly the South Africans club scene is rubbish - you see the ones that play in Pro 14 here recently.

Ireland had a world class team for a period of 2 years, unfortunately the 2 years came in between World Cups. I thought Farrell would be a decent appointment. But it's not working out at the moment, I don't know if sacking him is the right thing either. He was appointed for a World Cup cycle.

[whitegoodman]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

[seafoid]

Le Monde said it was a big win for France and amounted to a changing of the guard. It's a pity Gaelic Football can't be like that, instead of a monoculture.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

[trailer]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales can't believe their luck. They should be battling Italy for the wooden spoon but have got so lucky with two sendings off. Both Ireland and Scotland beat Wales with a full 15.
Farrell needs a win. Can they beat either Scotland or England? Doubtful with the game they're currently playing.

[GetOverTheBar]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

[johnnycool]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

He knew his stuff did Gatland and he could wind the písh out of the Irish when the need arose.

He called the WC final right much to Eddie Jones ire.

[sid waddell]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

Gatland is a great coach

He showed with Wales that a turnaround can happen in a very short time, he turned a team which went out in the group stage of the 2007 World Cup into Grand Slam winners by the following March

Getting rid of him was the craziest decision in the history of Irish rugby, he had overseen a significant upturn in fortunes including winning 4 out of 5 matches in the 2001 championship including the victory over England at Lansdowne Road that denied the English the Grand Slam, and Ireland were playing a fine style of rugby under him

My recollection is that George Hook was a cheerleader for his sacking

[screenexile]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

Gatland is a great coach

He showed with Wales that a turnaround can happen in a very short time, he turned a team which went out in the group stage of the 2007 World Cup into Grand Slam winners by the following March

Getting rid of him was the craziest decision in the history of Irish rugby, he had overseen a significant upturn in fortunes including winning 4 out of 5 matches in the 2001 championship including the victory over England at Lansdowne Road that denied the English the Grand Slam, and Ireland were playing a fine style of rugby under him

My recollection is that George Hook was a cheerleader for his sacking

And he did it blooding a lot of young players at the time!! Stringer/Hayes/Horgan/ and O'Gara all got their first caps under him.

[whitegoodman]

Any chance of getting him back ?  I know he is coaching the lions but after that his to do list seems pretty empty.

I actually think Farrell would have been very good under him but that wont happen at this stage.

[trailer]

Was there not a load of bad blood when he left. I doubt he'd come back unless it was with matches to torch the place?

[sid waddell]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

Gatland is a great coach

He showed with Wales that a turnaround can happen in a very short time, he turned a team which went out in the group stage of the 2007 World Cup into Grand Slam winners by the following March

Getting rid of him was the craziest decision in the history of Irish rugby, he had overseen a significant upturn in fortunes including winning 4 out of 5 matches in the 2001 championship including the victory over England at Lansdowne Road that denied the English the Grand Slam, and Ireland were playing a fine style of rugby under him

My recollection is that George Hook was a cheerleader for his sacking

And he did it blooding a lot of young players at the time!! Stringer/Hayes/Horgan/ and O'Gara all got their first caps under him.

Scotland 2000 was the turning point

Gatland made about eight changes after we were whacked at Twickenham, he brought in a load of Munster players and Shane Horgan, he brought back Mick Galwey and Denis Hickie after they were out in the cold

They were 10-0 down to Scotland and then ran in 44 points in a row

[sid waddell]

Was there not a load of bad blood when he left. I doubt he'd come back unless it was with matches to torch the place?

My recollection is that it smacked very much of a sort of old boys coup

Gatland was an outsider and O'Sullivan had been imposed upon him as assistant against his will

O'Sullivan was clearly manoeuvring behind the scenes

O'Sullivan was known in some quarters as "The Dagger" even before this

Gatland had the last laugh on him, Wales's victory at Croke Park in 2008 killed off any hopes O'Sullivan had of holding onto his job

[seafoid]

The reason the welsh have been so good is because they have had a top class coach for so long.  I know they have won their first two games but lets see where they are over the next 18 months.

Wales are very poor but have been fortunate this yr which they often are. I would expect France to smash them though.
Since the 6 nations have started some 20 yrs ago Ireland over that time have consistently been a much better team and  have a much better win rate over Wales yet Wales over that time have more grand slams and championships. Wales as pointed out also have a much better WC record - they seem to save their performances for when it matters. A lot of that is down to Gatland.
The only thing Ireland have over Wales in recent yrs is a respectable record against the tri-nations while Wales under Gatland have only won twice in 30 odd attempts. Of course many would and probably quite rightly point out those tests count for shit.

Gatland got a lot of stick, maybe too much. I was never sure of the reasons why, I always found him to be a likeable fella and thought he was always came across very well in the Lions documentaries etc - I know they aren't for all.

His style? Rugby is Rugby, it's a physical game.

Gatland is a great coach

He showed with Wales that a turnaround can happen in a very short time, he turned a team which went out in the group stage of the 2007 World Cup into Grand Slam winners by the following March

Getting rid of him was the craziest decision in the history of Irish rugby, he had overseen a significant upturn in fortunes including winning 4 out of 5 matches in the 2001 championship including the victory over England at Lansdowne Road that denied the English the Grand Slam, and Ireland were playing a fine style of rugby under him

My recollection is that George Hook was a cheerleader for his sacking

And he did it blooding a lot of young players at the time!! Stringer/Hayes/Horgan/ and O'Gara all got their first caps under him.

Beating France in Paris for the first time in 30 years was like the time Down beat Kerry  in 1991

[sid waddell]

France moving from the Parc Des Princes to the Stade De France helped Ireland

Ireland couldn't handle the Parc mentally at all, they routinely got destroyed and had a 100% losing record there, and that continued on in 2007 when they lost to Argentina there

Ireland nearly beat France in 1998 which I think was Gatland's first game in charge and Ireland's first game at the Stade De France, they lost by only two points having led for most of the match, then they won there in 2000

The Parc was an absolute graveyard for Irish hopes, Neil Francis used to write about how Irish players were beaten before the game started, their legs were like jelly as they looked at the amphetamined up Frenchmen belting out the Marseillaise

Twickenham never held the same fear - Murrayfield was worse - but Cardiff every two years was the one match Ireland always won