The IRISH RUGBY thread

[dublin7]

Question. Could you see Rugby be allowed in 50 years time? As it is now. Honestly I think there comes a point that a massive number of compensation claims start to come down the line and they try to change the game fundamentally or even a government steps in and possibly outlaws it. What are you left with? There is no doubt those hits take their toll and surely if we start to see above average cases of dementia and other neurological problems in ex players then I think it's game over. It's brutal sport and the hits have got a lot worse. Throw in actions such as Peter O'Mahoney's yesterday. He hasn't much regard for player safety, extrapolate that across the amateur game. How many hits like that go unpunished? Rugby like a lot of these contact sports are going to have a rough few years regarding player safety.

At least rugby are dealing with concussion. A player takes a hit to the head and he's straight off.

GAA and soccer don't have anything in place at the moment to deal with. How often do you see players take a big hit to the head and they are allowed play.

We don't know how good the HIA ptocess is. Rugby is attritional and generates HIAs more frequently than GAA.Rugby set pieces are more dangerous than sideline cuts.

Unless you've taken a sliotar right in the coupon. Happened one of our lads this summer and he'd a proper faceguard fitted yet still ended up with a fractured eye socket.

All sports have their dangers and rugby by its nature with the big hits going in is very high risk as part of its game and within the rules.

Showing O'Mahony was the right thing to do yesterday as much as it pains me ultimately was the reason Ireland lost the game. Maybe that'll send out a clear message that head hits and in particular cheap shots won't be tolerated.

What counts is the frequency of dangerous hits. Rugby is off the charts

What's most dangerous is when a player gets a concussion and carries on and then receives a 2nd blow. It's only a matter of time before something serious happens in soccer and/or GAA as they haven't put anything in place to deal with this during games

[sid waddell]

The only team worth watching any more are NZ, at least they try to play rugby and open teams up with flair.

England took New Zealand apart 15 months ago, with flair too

Which is hard to believe given how they themselves were taken apart by Scotland on Saturday

France have their mojo back in a big way and will definitely be worth watching over the next few years

Personally I thought the games this weekend were pretty rivetting even if not overly pretty

England v Scotland was a dogfight but the contest and the significance for Scotland was what made it, it was very tense but I couldn't take my eyes off it, it was tremendously enjoyable

[6th sam]

Question. Could you see Rugby be allowed in 50 years time? As it is now. Honestly I think there comes a point that a massive number of compensation claims start to come down the line and they try to change the game fundamentally or even a government steps in and possibly outlaws it. What are you left with? There is no doubt those hits take their toll and surely if we start to see above average cases of dementia and other neurological problems in ex players then I think it's game over. It's brutal sport and the hits have got a lot worse. Throw in actions such as Peter O'Mahoney's yesterday. He hasn't much regard for player safety, extrapolate that across the amateur game. How many hits like that go unpunished? Rugby like a lot of these contact sports are going to have a rough few years regarding player safety.

At least rugby are dealing with concussion. A player takes a hit to the head and he's straight off.

GAA and soccer don't have anything in place at the moment to deal with. How often do you see players take a big hit to the head and they are allowed play.

We don't know how good the HIA ptocess is. Rugby is attritional and generates HIAs more frequently than GAA.Rugby set pieces are more dangerous than sideline cuts.

Unless you've taken a sliotar right in the coupon. Happened one of our lads this summer and he'd a proper faceguard fitted yet still ended up with a fractured eye socket.

All sports have their dangers and rugby by its nature with the big hits going in is very high risk as part of its game and within the rules.

Showing O'Mahony was the right thing to do yesterday as much as it pains me ultimately was the reason Ireland lost the game. Maybe that'll send out a clear message that head hits and in particular cheap shots won't be tolerated.

What counts is the frequency of dangerous hits. Rugby is off the charts

What's most dangerous is when a player gets a concussion and carries on and then receives a 2nd blow. It's only a matter of time before something serious happens in soccer and/or GAA as they haven't put anything in place to deal with this during games

Concussion is a serious issue and GAA in my view take it seriously . The Jury is out on HIA. Safety must be paramount . The GAA can learn alot from Other sports , in the case of rugby we can learn how not to deal with head injury. What Peter O'Mahoney did yesterday was sickening, the way Johhny sexton is targeted is completely unethical. It's compounded in professional sports as head injuries can compromise a player's livelihood . I don't want to come down hard on omahoney in isolation because he's seems such a genuine lad, but imagine if that assault was on a member of your own family. One of the best Irish players of all time is at particular risk and  may have to retire if he gets further head injuries, and opposition seem to target him. This is where sport crosses the line, and priorities are all wrong

[JimStynes]

The only team worth watching any more are NZ, at least they try to play rugby and open teams up with flair.

England took New Zealand apart 15 months ago, with flair too

Which is hard to believe given how they themselves were taken apart by Scotland on Saturday

France have their mojo back in a big way and will definitely be worth watching over the next few years

Personally I thought the games this weekend were pretty rivetting even if not overly pretty

England v Scotland was a dogfight but the contest and the significance for Scotland was what made it, it was very tense but I couldn't take my eyes off it, it was tremendously enjoyable

I always find it strange how much teams can completely lose form from 1 year to the next in rugby.

[quit yo jibbajabba]

The only team worth watching any more are NZ, at least they try to play rugby and open teams up with flair.

England took New Zealand apart 15 months ago, with flair too

Which is hard to believe given how they themselves were taken apart by Scotland on Saturday

France have their mojo back in a big way and will definitely be worth watching over the next few years

Personally I thought the games this weekend were pretty rivetting even if not overly pretty

England v Scotland was a dogfight but the contest and the significance for Scotland was what made it, it was very tense but I couldn't take my eyes off it, it was tremendously enjoyable

I always find it strange how much teams can completely lose form from 1 year to the next in rugby.

This. Was gona post somethin earlier about this then forgot. Eng a good current example obviously, often seen it with France before, having a poor 6 Nations then going into next one as favourites.

More learned men than me will surely explain

[mouview]

Concussion is a serious issue and GAA in my view take it seriously . The Jury is out on HIA. Safety must be paramount . The GAA can learn alot from Other sports , in the case of rugby we can learn how not to deal with head injury. What Peter O'Mahoney did yesterday was sickening, the way Johhny sexton is targeted is completely unethical. It's compounded in professional sports as head injuries can compromise a player's livelihood . I don't want to come down hard on omahoney in isolation because he's seems such a genuine lad, but imagine if that assault was on a member of your own family. One of the best Irish players of all time is at particular risk and  may have to retire if he gets further head injuries, and opposition seem to target him. This is where sport crosses the line, and priorities are all wrong

Quote Vinnie Hogan in today's Indo - "He wasn't trying to hurt Francis...." 
Like, really?

[Itchy]

Question. Could you see Rugby be allowed in 50 years time? As it is now. Honestly I think there comes a point that a massive number of compensation claims start to come down the line and they try to change the game fundamentally or even a government steps in and possibly outlaws it. What are you left with? There is no doubt those hits take their toll and surely if we start to see above average cases of dementia and other neurological problems in ex players then I think it's game over. It's brutal sport and the hits have got a lot worse. Throw in actions such as Peter O'Mahoney's yesterday. He hasn't much regard for player safety, extrapolate that across the amateur game. How many hits like that go unpunished? Rugby like a lot of these contact sports are going to have a rough few years regarding player safety.

At least rugby are dealing with concussion. A player takes a hit to the head and he's straight off.

GAA and soccer don't have anything in place at the moment to deal with. How often do you see players take a big hit to the head and they are allowed play.

We don't know how good the HIA ptocess is. Rugby is attritional and generates HIAs more frequently than GAA.Rugby set pieces are more dangerous than sideline cuts.

Unless you've taken a sliotar right in the coupon. Happened one of our lads this summer and he'd a proper faceguard fitted yet still ended up with a fractured eye socket.

All sports have their dangers and rugby by its nature with the big hits going in is very high risk as part of its game and within the rules.

Showing O'Mahony was the right thing to do yesterday as much as it pains me ultimately was the reason Ireland lost the game. Maybe that'll send out a clear message that head hits and in particular cheap shots won't be tolerated.

What counts is the frequency of dangerous hits. Rugby is off the charts

What's most dangerous is when a player gets a concussion and carries on and then receives a 2nd blow. It's only a matter of time before something serious happens in soccer and/or GAA as they haven't put anything in place to deal with this during games

In soccer and GAA you dont have people targeting your head area to inflict maximum damage like you have in Rugby. Rugby is the problem sport for concussion and that is clear no matter what protocols they use after the fact. Its a game where very big people intentionally run into each other as hard as they can. Not a sport I would encourage a child to play.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/owen-doyle-peter-o-mahony-s-act-of-thuggery-deserves-tough-sanction-1.4479181

The day had started badly with the concerning news of Caelan Doris's visit to a concussion specialist in Birmingham. He is only 24. It finished with Johnny Sexton sitting in the stand, having failed another Head Injury Assessment (HIA). Ten years older than Doris, he has taken a hell of a battering over a long career. Ireland may want him back as soon as possible, but it may be more prudent, wiser, not to ask him to put his body or head on the line anymore.

[marty34]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/owen-doyle-peter-o-mahony-s-act-of-thuggery-deserves-tough-sanction-1.4479181

The day had started badly with the concerning news of Caelan Doris's visit to a concussion specialist in Birmingham. He is only 24. It finished with Johnny Sexton sitting in the stand, having failed another Head Injury Assessment (HIA). Ten years older than Doris, he has taken a hell of a battering over a long career. Ireland may want him back as soon as possible, but it may be more prudent, wiser, not to ask him to put his body or head on the line anymore.

That's the thing I suppose, we won't know the damage done until these lads are a bit older.

Probably be more cases like the one in England re- court cases.

[Rudi]

Concussion is a serious issue and GAA in my view take it seriously . The Jury is out on HIA. Safety must be paramount . The GAA can learn alot from Other sports , in the case of rugby we can learn how not to deal with head injury. What Peter O'Mahoney did yesterday was sickening, the way Johhny sexton is targeted is completely unethical. It's compounded in professional sports as head injuries can compromise a player's livelihood . I don't want to come down hard on omahoney in isolation because he's seems such a genuine lad, but imagine if that assault was on a member of your own family. One of the best Irish players of all time is at particular risk and  may have to retire if he gets further head injuries, and opposition seem to target him. This is where sport crosses the line, and priorities are all wrong

Quote Vinnie Hogan in today's Indo - "He wasn't trying to hurt Francis...." 
Like, really?

Showed blantant disregard for a fellow players health & safety. Francis was anchored in by both sets of forwards making a hit to the head all the worse. O Mahoney should be ashamed of himself. Netheral act, also costing his team the game.

[GetOverTheBar]

The only team worth watching any more are NZ, at least they try to play rugby and open teams up with flair.

England took New Zealand apart 15 months ago, with flair too

Which is hard to believe given how they themselves were taken apart by Scotland on Saturday

France have their mojo back in a big way and will definitely be worth watching over the next few years

Personally I thought the games this weekend were pretty rivetting even if not overly pretty

England v Scotland was a dogfight but the contest and the significance for Scotland was what made it, it was very tense but I couldn't take my eyes off it, it was tremendously enjoyable

I always find it strange how much teams can completely lose form from 1 year to the next in rugby.

This. Was gona post somethin earlier about this then forgot. Eng a good current example obviously, often seen it with France before, having a poor 6 Nations then going into next one as favourites.

More learned men than me will surely explain

It's a sport of attrition. Not say like football or Gaelic where you can keep in good nick and that will stand to you. Rugby is contact, constantly. You can't play at that level and avoid it. There is the point where your body peaks and natural testosterone drops and wear and tear becomes more and more a factor. James Haskell played the best international rugby of his career in 2016 but then come the Lions tour in 2017 he basically watched because he was hanging together.

Rugby is full of examples, Dylan Hartley captain of England under Jones - arguably playing the best rugby of his career, just over a year later his body gave way. Gone. Rory Best was at the top of his game arguably 2017 and 2018, come the Rugby World Cup the following year he was past it and ruthlessly exposed at the highest level. Ireland will face that decision again soon with Jonny Sexton.

I would also argue that England and Eddie Jones knows exactly what he is doing, he's no fool. A Six Nations isn't going to further his CV anymore. He's building for the next world cup. It's all about getting there with the right amount of experience and the right age profile. This year is the strange one, because you don't want to start to peak now as it's still 2 years away. You'll see next year a bunch of younger players in the England team as they start to go again - they have the resources to do this. They won't be far away in 2023. Ireland can't really do it.

[trailer]

Concussion is a serious issue and GAA in my view take it seriously . The Jury is out on HIA. Safety must be paramount . The GAA can learn alot from Other sports , in the case of rugby we can learn how not to deal with head injury. What Peter O'Mahoney did yesterday was sickening, the way Johhny sexton is targeted is completely unethical. It's compounded in professional sports as head injuries can compromise a player's livelihood . I don't want to come down hard on omahoney in isolation because he's seems such a genuine lad, but imagine if that assault was on a member of your own family. One of the best Irish players of all time is at particular risk and  may have to retire if he gets further head injuries, and opposition seem to target him. This is where sport crosses the line, and priorities are all wrong

Quote Vinnie Hogan in today's Indo - "He wasn't trying to hurt Francis...." 
Like, really?

Showed blantant disregard for a fellow players health & safety. Francis was anchored in by both sets of forwards making a hit to the head all the worse. O Mahoney should be ashamed of himself. Netheral act, also costing his team the game.

I don't even really care that he let the team down, it's more that he would go out and deliberately do that. To just see an opportunity to seriously hurt someone. Especially with all the talk about head injuries in Rugby and we're already starting to hear of people having serious problems, it's just beyond belief.

[Rudi]

3 game (six nations)  ban for O Mahoney.

[johnnycool]

3 game (six nations)  ban for O Mahoney.

That's probably the end of his international career. Not the way he would have wanted it to end but a great player over his career

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-the-situation-ireland-find-themselves-in-is-down-to-management-1.4480459An impossible selection awaits for Farrell; stick with Burns despite mounting evidence that he lacks the calmness or accuracy required to soften the cough of a rampant France or switch back to Ross Byrne, again.
If it takes another red card for the team to show up, Antoine Dupont will rip Simon Easterby's defensive system to shreds.
To be relying on graduated return to play protocols this week in order to get Sexton and James Ryan onto the field is not a good look. Some players may need protecting from themselves. Some coaches may need protecting from the players.
I hope this column is shoved down my throat on Sunday. I hope they turn the corner with a famous victory, inspired by No10, but the evidence of the opening 12 minutes indicates a deeper malaise.