The IRISH RUGBY thread

[6th sam]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

😂 I don't particularly hold them dear in terms of international soccer and rugby , just trying to get my head around the authenticity of international representative sport.
FAI may be a 26 county organisation but for me the FAI is closest to my 32 county affiliation of the two international soccer bodies on this island. Though I have no affinity to NI i admire how they punch above their weight. By comparison ROI are currently punching below our weight unfortunately. Rugby is 32 county and the IRFU have managed the challenge of remaining an All-Ireland organisation brilliantly

[LCohen]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

😂 I don't particularly hold them dear in terms of international soccer and rugby , just trying to get my head around the authenticity of international representative sport.
FAI may be a 26 county organisation but for me the FAI is closest to my 32 county affiliation of the two international soccer bodies on this island. Though I have no affinity to NI i admire how they punch above their weight. By comparison ROI are currently punching below our weight unfortunately. Rugby is 32 county and the IRFU have managed the challenge of remaining an All-Ireland organisation brilliantly

How do feel about a significant number of lads playing for RoI with little connection to it and no interest  in it until the offer of international football came along?

[6th sam]

It's fairly clear what I think.
You represent your country for patriotic reasons , that's what should make international sport different. In Club soccer , rugby etc , you can understand players playing for whatever club furthers their career best, any affiliation is a bonus . International representation should be about a patriotic connection. That's why I have no issue with Rice, Grealish and even McIlroy not playing for Ireland, if they don't feel it, what's the point?
Rugby is interesting in that patriotism is for the island of Ireland and the IRFU, and this unity of affiliation sets an example , and not just in sport .

[LCohen]

It's fairly clear what I think.
You represent your country for patriotic reasons , that's what should make international sport different. In Club soccer , rugby etc , you can understand players playing for whatever club furthers their career best, any affiliation is a bonus . International representation should be about a patriotic connection. That's why I have no issue with Rice, Grealish and even McIlroy not playing for Ireland, if they don't feel it, what's the point?
Rugby is interesting in that patriotism is for the island of Ireland and the IRFU, and this unity of affiliation sets an example , and not just in sport .

It's fairly clear that you think that the RoI soccer team is fairly stocked by lads who lads who shouldn't be there. Do you let that one slide or withhold your full throated support?

[6th sam]

It's fairly clear what I think.
You represent your country for patriotic reasons , that's what should make international sport different. In Club soccer , rugby etc , you can understand players playing for whatever club furthers their career best, any affiliation is a bonus . International representation should be about a patriotic connection. That's why I have no issue with Rice, Grealish and even McIlroy not playing for Ireland, if they don't feel it, what's the point?
Rugby is interesting in that patriotism is for the island of Ireland and the IRFU, and this unity of affiliation sets an example , and not just in sport .

It's fairly clear that you think that the RoI soccer team is fairly stocked by lads who lads who shouldn't be there. Do you let that one slide or withhold your full throated support?

I support both the rugby and soccer international teams, just questioning the weakness in diluting patriotic affinity .

[LCohen]

It's fairly clear what I think.
You represent your country for patriotic reasons , that's what should make international sport different. In Club soccer , rugby etc , you can understand players playing for whatever club furthers their career best, any affiliation is a bonus . International representation should be about a patriotic connection. That's why I have no issue with Rice, Grealish and even McIlroy not playing for Ireland, if they don't feel it, what's the point?
Rugby is interesting in that patriotism is for the island of Ireland and the IRFU, and this unity of affiliation sets an example , and not just in sport .

It's fairly clear that you think that the RoI soccer team is fairly stocked by lads who lads who shouldn't be there. Do you let that one slide or withhold your full throated support?

I support both the rugby and soccer international teams, just questioning the weakness in diluting patriotic affinity .

I have no issue with you supporting either/both those teams. It is clear that the need for patriotic attachment has been diluted. And diluted more in the case or RoI soccer team than the Ireland rugby team. My sense of what you have posted is that you seem to have an unequal approach to those facts. It's the inequity that draws my attention

[Baile Brigín 2]

We are great when the pressure is off as usual. We actually coughed up points all over the place which is very worrying for Wales. How the hell have they collapsed so much in a year.

New management for Wales possibly the reason.

Couldn't bring myself to watch it. This "autumn series" , Seems a bit contrived .
What are thoughts on the likes of Lowe , playing for Ireland? Can anyone change allegiance , even though they have no Irish blood? Say They just came here to work/play and then declare , presumably because they are not good enough to play for their native country?
The whole essence / motivation of international sport should be patriotism

The autumn series are well established. For the majority of the existence of the game they have been one of the highlights. The format is different this year for obvious reasons.

The residency rules are fair enough in my view. Players qualifying via that route have a lot more skin in the game than granny rule boyos hopping off a plane

Granny rule stretches it a bit , but the Irish diaspora connection is fair enough A new Zealander setting up his life here and playing club rugby is fair enough but getting An international place with no other connection demeans patriotism. It's representative sport, if u haven't got a patriotic connection what's the Point?

Ask Brett Cockbain about his qualification to play for Wales. Someone already has.

The vast majority of players of have played soccer for Ireland under the granny rule had no notion of being Irish before the call came

I don't think thats fair. Most were genuine diaspora. Yes there were a few absolute chancers like Townsend and Morrison but most were fully aware and proud of their Irish heritage.

But they were at least Irish citizens. The egg chasrees aren't even bothering with that requirement

Fully aware and proud of their Irish heritage?  What are you basing that on?

How many had Irish passports before the football came?

The rules are not very different. The granny rule entitles someone to an Irish passport. Soccer exploits that quite a lot and at times actively harvests it. The granny rule is rarely used in Rugby. In Ireland anyway. The residency rule is used. Big gamble by a player and they pretty much have to set their life up here. Footballers can fly in and out. The list of chancers is longer than the 2 you list. Very considerably longer. How many of them would have said yes to Ireland if they had to wait 3 or 5 years for their first cap?

The rules are night and day. One requires Irish citizenship, one doesn't

[Baile Brigín 2]

Rugby players have to be based in Ireland to win a cap , soccar players don't- so residency rule has a greater impact

International sport  is representative, you are representing your country, either by birth or diaspora . If a person has a passport and decides that he feels Irish , We can't get into questioning that. However playing for a country on the basis of residency , without a passport seems farcical to me. I can understand how a NZ player just below All black standard , jumps at a contract to come to Europe to play club rugby , and if he's good enough to play international for his new country , it will be of financial benefit, but that doesn't make him Irish. "What makes you Irish , Todd", ....." well to be honest, I couldn't get a contract with Toulouse to make me French"
This is no disrespect to those that choose this path, they're playing within the rules, but it just seems farcical to me.

You wouldn't have one of those boys who objected to John Barnes playing for England would you? They used to make quite a noise

No I wouldn't , Barnes moved to England when he was a 12 year old child. He has a clear affiliation to England . Many who questioned Barnes were doing so for racist reasons. Players in their late 20s , moving half way round the world for career development,( and fair play to them) and then changing their international allegiance to a country to which they have no patriotic connection doesn't sit easy with me. Ironically someone like Simon Zebo who makes a career development decision to play overseas , then can't play for his country ( i stand corrected if that is not the case, but that's my understanding of it)

You are correct. Zebo is not currently eligible for an Irish contract.

You can question the residency as much as you like but there has to be a residency rule. It's a question of where you draw the line. Unquestionably players arriving by that route have demonstrated more commitment that some who has a granny from Mayo and no other connection to Ireland and didn't consider themselves Irish until they bumped in to Maurice Setters

The IRFU could absolutely pick Zebo to play for Ireland.
There is no rule anywhere against it. But there is a policy that they don't pick players who are based overseas. They made an exception for Sexton. Doubtful they'd make a similar exception in the future.

My understanding is that they won't enter a contract with a player outside Ireland. The sexton experience will not be repeated

To suppress wages at the franchises. And when a player gets a decent contract abroad they have their international contract ripped up.

International contract. Think about that.


Not only are Irish players losing places at franchise level to imports, thats sport, they lose international spots. Thats different..

[Baile Brigín 2]

Rugby players have to be based in Ireland to win a cap , soccar players don't- so residency rule has a greater impact

International sport  is representative, you are representing your country, either by birth or diaspora . If a person has a passport and decides that he feels Irish , We can't get into questioning that. However playing for a country on the basis of residency , without a passport seems farcical to me. I can understand how a NZ player just below All black standard , jumps at a contract to come to Europe to play club rugby , and if he's good enough to play international for his new country , it will be of financial benefit, but that doesn't make him Irish. "What makes you Irish , Todd", ....." well to be honest, I couldn't get a contract with Toulouse to make me French"
This is no disrespect to those that choose this path, they're playing within the rules, but it just seems farcical to me.

You wouldn't have one of those boys who objected to John Barnes playing for England would you? They used to make quite a noise

No I wouldn't , Barnes moved to England when he was a 12 year old child. He has a clear affiliation to England . Many who questioned Barnes were doing so for racist reasons. Players in their late 20s , moving half way round the world for career development,( and fair play to them) and then changing their international allegiance to a country to which they have no patriotic connection doesn't sit easy with me. Ironically someone like Simon Zebo who makes a career development decision to play overseas , then can't play for his country ( i stand corrected if that is not the case, but that's my understanding of it)

Zebo can play for Ireland.

IRFU choose not to pick him to encourage the best players to stay in Ireland to support the Irish game.

The 3 year residency rule (now a 5 year residency rule) is a global Rugby Union rule, not an Irish rule.

Totally accept that it's an international rule, and I respect the reasons behind IRFU wanting to keep players at home, but the irony of Irish players being penalised for travelling, whilst non-Irish players effectively take their place , or stifle the development of an up and coming , let's say Ulster player who can't get into the international set up as a couple of travelling South Africans or Kiwis knock them down the pecking order.
Ps I welcome these travelling players into our club game as it's a "non-representative" professional set up that can welcome anyone regardless of provinciality or nationality.

The IRFU are very specific about what players they allowed the provinces sign as project players or non Irish qualified. They have also forced Irish provinces to release foreign players or stopped a province signing them as they felt they could stop the progress of Irish lads.

Leinster are one of the top sides in Europe and is nearly all home grown players. The systems the IRFU have in place help them find the best young players all over the country. The FAI don't have anything even close to the same structures in place. Allowing clubs here to send young lads to the UK at 15/16 and hope the clubs over there can turn them into footballers is their strategy

Its not and the change has caused murder. The structures are there, are very good and working. However they cannot stop kids moving over, but less and less do.

But if the FAI insisted that you could only play for Ireland if you were at a LoI club your analogy would hold. They don't think it fair to punish a player moving abroad for more money.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

The teams v Wales home and away were all Irish born. Wembley was 9, with a switch immediately before the game swinging from 10.

Basic stuff.

[LCohen]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

The teams v Wales home and away were all Irish born. Wembley was 9, with a switch immediately before the game swinging from 10.

Basic stuff.

And I would expect that trend to continue. It hasn't been the way over the past 30
years but things have changed.

[dublin7]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

The teams v Wales home and away were all Irish born. Wembley was 9, with a switch immediately before the game swinging from 10.

Basic stuff.

That was an interesting statistic. 45 years and 400 games ago since that last happened. For comparisons sake there were 3 non Irish players in the Irish 15 that played Wales on Friday, which would be roughly similar percentage. One of them Quinn Roux has been living and playing in Ireland for the last 8 years, which is alot more time than some Irish footballers have spent here in their lifetime

[seafoid]

How England became a bullying bogey team for Ireland
England have won their last three matches against Ireland, scoring over 100 points in the process

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/11/17/england-became-bullying-bogey-team-ireland/


Three of Ireland's 49 victories over England came between 2015 and 2018, when a 24-15 triumph emphatically sealed their most recent Grand Slam.

It was not quite a period of dominance to match the four straight wins that were capped off by a 43-13 thrashing at Croke Park in 2007. Still, it seemed as though they had sussed out an old rival.

Since then, three more matches have yielded a messy aggregate score of 113-47 in the favour of Eddie Jones' charges. With that in mind, how have England become a bogey team for Ireland?

Psychology and circumstance
Joe Schmidt was always fairly forthcoming with his tactical musings in press conferences as Ireland head coach.

During the 2019 Six Nations, following an unconvincing win in Rome, he was probably too honest about the lingering effects of a 32-20 loss to England at the start of the tournament over three weeks previously.

"We always talk about going forward," he said. "But sometimes you've got to take a step back, take a deep breath and not panic because I think the players were a bit... I suppose a bit broken by the fall-out from the England game.

Sportsfile
Joe Schmidy arrives at the Aviva Stadium to face England in 2019 CREDIT: Sportsfile
"And then suddenly they start to question themselves."

A remarkable admission, that his players had been psychologically damaged by England, exposed the shockwaves that were still emanating from the Aviva Stadium. Two matches before that game, Ireland had overturned New Zealand.

Even if World Rugby's rankings did not concur, they were planet's form team. England, on the back of a stuttering 2018, would be up against it in Dublin.

Just like Michael Jordan clutching an iPad, Jones appeared to take any praise of Schmidt personally and devised a power-based, "brutal" game-plan that attacked Ireland's traditional strengths.

Sportsfile
England celebrate Henry Slade's second try in Dublin last year CREDIT: Sportsfile
England set out to frustrate their hosts, famed for hogging possession and squeezing opponents, by forcing them to play in awkward areas thanks to a diligent kicking display and disruptive, dogged defence. Mako Vunipola and Mark Wilson amassed 27 tackles each.

Robbie Henshaw and Jacob Stockdale endured uncertain outings in a make-shift back three after the senior member of the trio, Keith Earls, was caught out by a fizzing pass from Owen Farrell that led to Jonny May's second minute try.

Earlier in the build-up, Manu Tuilagi had been unleashed over the top of a lineout and Billy Vunipola had offloaded in midfield. England's big bullies stamped authority early and three more tries followed.

Two were from clever kicks before Jonathan Sexton was intercepted by Henry Slade. Ben Youngs had scurried up to harry Ireland's fly-half, epitomising England's defensive tenacity:


Just over six months later, Ireland travelled to Twickenham for a World Cup warm-up. England had played back-to-back games against Wales on the preceding two weekends. After beating Italy a fortnight previously, Ireland had prioritised fitness training and were promptly dismantled by Tuilagi, Joe Cokanasiga and a new back-row combination of Tom Curry and Sam Underhill.

Warm-up games are usually fractured and pretty low on quality, but fairly even. England plundered 57 points, shattering Ireland's confidence ahead of their trip to Japan.

In this year's Six Nations tie at Twickenham, especially during a fraught first half, the visitors looked as though they were suffering from an inferiority complex. And it would not have heartened Ireland supporters to hear James Lowe speaking about "wound marks" from Saracens' recent win over Leinster, which was based on familiar principles.

Punting and personnel
Like Henshaw before him, Jordan Larmour was targeted and teased out of position nine months ago. England's kicking game is remarkably varied, particularly when George Ford is in tandem with Farrell.

They will have outlets on either side of the breakdown with the ability to pass wide and tempt back-three opponents to creep up flat before clipping, chipping or slipping the ball into pockets of space in behind.

Slade and Elliot Daly are both left-footed, adding another dimension. Individuals such as Jonny May have improved in camp. Then, when you think everything is covered, a curve-ball is thrown... or kicked. And concentration lapses are often costly.

In February, Jonathan Joseph was moved to the wing as a roaming distributor – and maybe to lure Ireland into kicking that way. Ford's try arrived after Youngs had sniped from the base of a ruck and slid through a grubber.

Larmour was isolated in the back-field, with Sexton having pushed up flat. Farrell was on one side of the field, Ford on the other:

England
Sexton back-pedalled and reached the ball first, but spilled:


Saracens probed the same perceived deficiency in Larmour's game. Richard Wigglesworth and Alex Goode kept the pressure on. Powerful forwards such as the Vunipola brothers, Jamie George and Maro Itoje threw their weight around and controlled momentum from there.

There are 10 England players to have started all three of the recent wins over Ireland. Curry, Daly, Farrell, George, Itoje, May, Kyle Sinckler and Youngs are eight of them.

Tuilagi is another, and England will have to find a way to replace his dynamism. They accounted for the absence of Billy Vunipola in February by shifting Courtney Lawes to blindside flanker.

George Kruis is the last to have started all three victories. Clearing rucks and lineout nous are two crucial facets in any contest against Ireland. Charlie Ewels put together a very good exhibition of those traits on Saturday.

Power against predictability
Ford is among the most interesting speakers in the England squad and, in an interview with mentor John Fletcher over lockdown for The Magic Academy podcast, he discussed how teams can rely on "dominant" fly-halves to direct play.

"[Against] a team like Ireland, it's: 'Where's Sexton? Where's Sexton'," he said. "Wherever Sexton is, that's where the ball is going."

Ford suggested that he would want his sides to be less "predictable" than that with, as discussed above, potential first-receivers on either side of rucks. He then offered a window into England's defence:

"In the Six Nations, we put some targets on lads in the opposition – the talisman of the opposition – for the lads to go after to stop the momentum of them."
This fits perfectly with the point made by Dylan Hartley in last week's Telegraph Sport column, that England's aggressive defence thrives when opponents are predictable. In that respect, the lack of an assertive second playmaker, such as Garry Ringrose or Joey Carbery, to complement Sexton has hurt Ireland in games against England. 

Prior to half-time on their last visit to Twickenham, Ireland laboured in possession as they attempted to settle into their 1-3-2-2 shape. England left breakdowns alone and kept 15 tacklers on their feet. Imposing defenders such and Curry, Itoje and Underhill, collared carriers far behind the gain-line and thoroughly enjoyed themselves:


Of course, Sexton's hamstring means Ireland will have to rely on another distributor.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

The teams v Wales home and away were all Irish born. Wembley was 9, with a switch immediately before the game swinging from 10.

Basic stuff.

That was an interesting statistic. 45 years and 400 games ago since that last happened. For comparisons sake there were 3 non Irish players in the Irish 15 that played Wales on Friday, which would be roughly similar percentage. One of them Quinn Roux has been living and playing in Ireland for the last 8 years, which is alot more time than some Irish footballers have spent here in their lifetime

Rubbish. Which Irish born soccer player spent less than 8 years in Ireland?

The granny rule days are over. Comparisons with rugby make no sense

[dublin7]

I've no doubt James McLean declared for the ROI for personal reasons and as you say no one would question his commitment or passion for the ROI team.

It's the likes of Alex Bruce that people like myself are referencing. He declared for the ROI and when he wasn't getting picked he switched allegiance to NI. For several players switching allegiances between NI/ROI or declaring for a country they weren't born in is simply a business decision they think will benefit their career.

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-mallon-switches-allegiance-to-northern-ireland-5192255-Sep2020/

Choosing your international team for football reasons is farcical . and goes against representative patriotism . Just to clarify , dublin7, you're not implying that McClean declared for a country he wasn't born in?

You criticise foreign rugby players for choosing to play international rugby for Ireland as a career option but don't consider the same applies to soccer? Footballers changing nationality for patriotic reasons are extremely rare and actually funny. How long after becoming first team regulars and premier league footballers do you think Declan Rice and Jack Grealish discovered their English patriotism???

I don't know what your point is regarding James McLean. No one has claimed he declared for Republic of Ireland for financial benefits or career prospects.

Really, I'm criticising the rules not the players. Allowing players to choose their nationality for career development ,whether for soccer or rugby , makes a farce of international sport.

Do think that by the standards of what you hold dear in terms of patriotism that the RoI soccer team is now and always has been, a legitimate team? Sure it wouldn't be as Irish as the Rugby team?

The teams v Wales home and away were all Irish born. Wembley was 9, with a switch immediately before the game swinging from 10.

Basic stuff.

That was an interesting statistic. 45 years and 400 games ago since that last happened. For comparisons sake there were 3 non Irish players in the Irish 15 that played Wales on Friday, which would be roughly similar percentage. One of them Quinn Roux has been living and playing in Ireland for the last 8 years, which is alot more time than some Irish footballers have spent here in their lifetime

Rubbish. Which Irish born soccer player spent less than 8 years in Ireland?

The granny rule days are over. Comparisons with rugby make no sense

I clearly said Irish footballers. I never mentioned Irish born. Without rehashing the same points you could easily out together a list of former Irish footballers who probably won't set foot in Ireland again unless it's for media work or as a football coach/manager.

Any foreign rugby player who wants to play for Ireland has to commit to living in Ireland and becoming part of the locality. That's a big difference.