The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Owen Brannigan]

Little hope of change so long as they continue to draw almost full houses at Ravenhill with a huge bank of season ticket holders.  Only when people begin to vote with their feet will the penny drop. Interesting to see how 2019 tickets sell given brand toxicity because terrible team performances for the last number of years with so many head coaches and terrible signings haven't diminished sales.

[screenexile]

Little hope of change so long as they continue to draw almost full houses at Ravenhill with a huge bank of season ticket holders.  Only when people begin to vote with their feet will the penny drop. Interesting to see how 2019 tickets sell given brand toxicity because terrible team performances for the last number of years with so many head coaches and terrible signings haven't diminished sales.

Season ticket prices frozen for next year but that's a load of balls seeing as there are less games in the Pro 14 and there's a very large prospect of no Champions Cup rugby as well!!

[Tony Baloney]

Stephen Ferris and Paddy Wallace aren't pulling any punches on Logan.

[Milltown Row2]

Little hope of change so long as they continue to draw almost full houses at Ravenhill with a huge bank of season ticket holders.  Only when people begin to vote with their feet will the penny drop. Interesting to see how 2019 tickets sell given brand toxicity because terrible team performances for the last number of years with so many head coaches and terrible signings haven't diminished sales.

Season ticket prices frozen for next year but that's a load of balls seeing as there are less games in the Pro 14 and there's a very large prospect of no Champions Cup rugby as well!!

Well in truth there is only a few champions cup games, they'll play in the grade below? The rugby played at Kingspan is usually successful so the Home fans are getting value, the away fixtures are the problem!

Been couple time this season and it's s decent night out

[Walter Cronc]

Little hope of change so long as they continue to draw almost full houses at Ravenhill with a huge bank of season ticket holders.  Only when people begin to vote with their feet will the penny drop. Interesting to see how 2019 tickets sell given brand toxicity because terrible team performances for the last number of years with so many head coaches and terrible signings haven't diminished sales.

Season ticket prices frozen for next year but that's a load of balls seeing as there are less games in the Pro 14 and there's a very large prospect of no Champions Cup rugby as well!!

Well in truth there is only a few champions cup games, they'll play in the grade below? The rugby played at Kingspan is usually successful so the Home fans are getting value, the away fixtures are the problem!

Been couple time this season and it's s decent night out

Decent night out!! Its professional sport man. Its been abysmal all season!

From players to blazers theres been no accountability at Ulster Rugby, everyone content in their little bubble. Until fans vote with their feet (which they are) nothing will change.

[Milltown Row2]

Little hope of change so long as they continue to draw almost full houses at Ravenhill with a huge bank of season ticket holders.  Only when people begin to vote with their feet will the penny drop. Interesting to see how 2019 tickets sell given brand toxicity because terrible team performances for the last number of years with so many head coaches and terrible signings haven't diminished sales.

Season ticket prices frozen for next year but that's a load of balls seeing as there are less games in the Pro 14 and there's a very large prospect of no Champions Cup rugby as well!!

Well in truth there is only a few champions cup games, they'll play in the grade below? The rugby played at Kingspan is usually successful so the Home fans are getting value, the away fixtures are the problem!

Been couple time this season and it's s decent night out

Decent night out!! Its professional sport man. Its been abysmal all season!

From players to blazers theres been no accountability at Ulster Rugby, everyone content in their little bubble. Until fans vote with their feet (which they are) nothing will change.

As a non supporter but someone interested in sport and watching rugby it's a good night out, I watched them beat Munster in January, they were beat off the pitch in the first half and came back and won the match. The other required a last minute try and conversion to win by a point against the Italian team.

They have suffered a lot of injuries lately and obviously the trial will have had an impact also.. there is plenty potential they just have to make it work! I just can't see huge numbers not going to watch them

[Walter Cronc]

Good read on Ulster Rugby here...

https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/04/its-grim-up-north-ulsters-malaise/

[screenexile]

Good read on Ulster Rugby here...

https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/04/its-grim-up-north-ulsters-malaise/

I tried Walter god knows I did but I just didn't have the stamina for it!!

[LeoMc]

Jonno Gibbes to step down as Ulster head coach at the end of the year. The circus that is Ulster Rugby continues. Time for Shane Logan and Bryn Cunningham to step down also. Farce of an organisation but knowing the arrogance of some of those involved I've zero sympathy for them!

For a man stepping down for family reasons (Friday) it did not take him long to find another job (Monday).

[Dinny Breen]

Good read on Ulster Rugby here...

https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/04/its-grim-up-north-ulsters-malaise/

I tried Walter god knows I did but I just didn't have the stamina for it!!

It was long un'. Structural change was required but poorly managed. Academy is shit. Recruitment is shit. Massive overhaul needed. Future is not bright.

[Walter Cronc]

Good read on Ulster Rugby here...

https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/04/its-grim-up-north-ulsters-malaise/

I tried Walter god knows I did but I just didn't have the stamina for it!!

Aye its a big read. The bit on Humphreys/McLaughlin is interesting!

[Owen Brannigan]

Jonno Gibbes to step down as Ulster head coach at the end of the year. The circus that is Ulster Rugby continues. Time for Shane Logan and Bryn Cunningham to step down also. Farce of an organisation but knowing the arrogance of some of those involved I've zero sympathy for them!

For a man stepping down for family reasons (Friday) it did not take him long to find another job (Monday).

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0305/945061-jono-gibbes-named-as-next-waikato-head-coach/

[magpie seanie]

Dinny - would be interested on your view on Connacht and how they're doing with limited resources. From an outsider I'd say well but I really don't know the ins and outs of it.

Also - Leinster have massive demographic and cultural advantages on the other provinces. How much of their superiority in terms of structures is down to this?

[Dinny Breen]

Dinny - would be interested on your view on Connacht and how they're doing with limited resources. From an outsider I'd say well but I really don't know the ins and outs of it.

Also - Leinster have massive demographic and cultural advantages on the other provinces. How much of their superiority in terms of structures is down to this?

Connacht are punching. The Pro12 win in 2016 is all the proof you need. The big thing for Connacht was to remove the chip and align their always strong team ethic on the pitch with a business culture that needed to change, and get everyone moving in the same direction. Willie Ruane and Tom Sears before him were good appointments and Pat Lam was fantastic for Connacht at the culture level and he showed what a good coach can do. Good coaches make good players better. Connacht though are handicapped by their stadium, their avg attendance would be 7k+, whereas the other three would avg 16k+ so this reduces their ability to invest in grassroots, player wages back room teams etc and they are more dependent on the IRFU for financial support. The IRFU though know the value of Connacht.  They recruit wisely though and are very good at picking up unwanted/unspotted talent from Leinster and Munster and there is no stigma with signing for Connacht, there is the sense that Leinster players are reluctant to sign for Munster but see Connacht as opportunity to develop. For example one to watch in that sense is Sean Masterson from Portlaoise, brother of Eoghan, he's come through the clubs pathway, outstanding back-row but one thing Leinster don't need is another back-row, Connacht came knocking so he's joined their academy.

While I think Connacht have under-performed this year, you have to wait till year two and see what progress a coach is making, Keane is a good coach, good fit for Connacht, use to work with limited resources and coming from a innovative background. Connacht are a good bet for the European Challenge Cup.  So Connacht are doing well, there model works but like anything could be improved upon. New stadium would help.

As for Leinster yes numbers are important but they now have structures in place to harvest them properly. The big benefit for Leinster is how seriously schools take the Leinster Senior Cup and much they invest in coaching and facilities. These schools are essentially mini-academies, and your average training week for these guys is 3 pitch sessions, 2 gym sessions, 1 video session. This allows Leinster throw their coaching resources into the club game, 5 development squads for u16s, 3 centres of excellence for u17s and then the u18 youths. This is the route Tadgh Furlong, Joey Carberry, Adam Byrne etc have followed one to watch here is probably Ciaran Frawley, an out-half from Skerries. So Leinster have 2 pathways to identify and develop talent. Leinster also have more financial resources to fund these pathways but the problem for Leinster is like in any professional sport so much money goes towards the talent i.e. the players. So for any of the provinces once a players contract is up money has to be found from somewhere and generally costs have to be cut from other budgets such as coaching and development.

As for culture I credit Cheika for changing that on the professional playing side, recognised Leinster were soft and went about dismantling and building that back up. Then shrewd coaching appointments such as Joe Scmidt and now Stuart Lancaster have just driven standards and these guys back the Academy players which just helps grow the Academy's sense of worth. Leinster aren't perfect, the domestic game is seeing a drop off in the number of teams and participation rates are dropping particularly those kids who play in school buy have no club affiliation, they literally just give up playing. And personally I believe a strong domestic game fuels the future success of the professional game.

[seafoid]

Dinny - would be interested on your view on Connacht and how they're doing with limited resources. From an outsider I'd say well but I really don't know the ins and outs of it.

Also - Leinster have massive demographic and cultural advantages on the other provinces. How much of their superiority in terms of structures is down to this?

Connacht are punching. The Pro12 win in 2016 is all the proof you need. The big thing for Connacht was to remove the chip and align their always strong team ethic on the pitch with a business culture that needed to change, and get everyone moving in the same direction. Willie Ruane and Tom Sears before him were good appointments and Pat Lam was fantastic for Connacht at the culture level and he showed what a good coach can do. Good coaches make good players better. Connacht though are handicapped by their stadium, their avg attendance would be 7k+, whereas the other three would avg 16k+ so this reduces their ability to invest in grassroots, player wages back room teams etc and they are more dependent on the IRFU for financial support. The IRFU though know the value of Connacht.  They recruit wisely though and are very good at picking up unwanted/unspotted talent from Leinster and Munster and there is no stigma with signing for Connacht, there is the sense that Leinster players are reluctant to sign for Munster but see Connacht as opportunity to develop. For example one to watch in that sense is Sean Masterson from Portlaoise, brother of Eoghan, he's come through the clubs pathway, outstanding back-row but one thing Leinster don't need is another back-row, Connacht came knocking so he's joined their academy.

While I think Connacht have under-performed this year, you have to wait till year two and see what progress a coach is making, Keane is a good coach, good fit for Connacht, use to work with limited resources and coming from a innovative background. Connacht are a good bet for the European Challenge Cup.  So Connacht are doing well, there model works but like anything could be improved upon. New stadium would help.

As for Leinster yes numbers are important but they now have structures in place to harvest them properly. The big benefit for Leinster is how seriously schools take the Leinster Senior Cup and much they invest in coaching and facilities. These schools are essentially mini-academies, and your average training week for these guys is 3 pitch sessions, 2 gym sessions, 1 video session. This allows Leinster throw their coaching resources into the club game, 5 development squads for u16s, 3 centres of excellence for u17s and then the u18 youths. This is the route Tadgh Furlong, Joey Carberry, Adam Byrne etc have followed one to watch here is probably Ciaran Frawley, an out-half from Skerries. So Leinster have 2 pathways to identify and develop talent. Leinster also have more financial resources to fund these pathways but the problem for Leinster is like in any professional sport so much money goes towards the talent i.e. the players. So for any of the provinces once a players contract is up money has to be found from somewhere and generally costs have to be cut from other budgets such as coaching and development.

As for culture I credit Cheika for changing that on the professional playing side, recognised Leinster were soft and went about dismantling and building that back up. Then shrewd coaching appointments such as Joe Scmidt and now Stuart Lancaster have just driven standards and these guys back the Academy players which just helps grow the Academy's sense of worth. Leinster aren't perfect, the domestic game is seeing a drop off in the number of teams and participation rates are dropping particularly those kids who play in school buy have no club affiliation, they literally just give up playing. And personally I believe a strong domestic game fuels the future success of the professional game.

If the GAA could flog them Staid na Gaoithe in Salthill and maybe tie it in with St Conleths in Newbridge everyone would be a winner.