The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Syferus]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal precedent, not something anyone outside of the judicial system adheres to.

It's a total cop out to try to use it and if you didn't realise that then you're even farther behind than I thought.

Can you explain that? Do you believe that everyone arrested for everything is guilty?

I can explain it very easily. If the evidence tells me someone is guilty I'll say they're guilty. I have no responsibility to give someone the benefit of the doubt because a court's legal precedent for a guilty verdict has not yet been reached.

It's a logical fallacy to use it in a discussion and the caveman types always hide behind it in rape cases or the sexual assault allegations of recent years. It does not work.

What 'evidence' have you seen? I'm sure the defence will give counter evidence based on consensual relations, etc etc. I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

As I said, they may well be guilty, but coming to that conclusion on the basis of newspaper reports is presumptuous to say the least. 

And before you say anything, I am absolutely not 'victim blaming' or trying to minimise it. I'm just saying that I have no idea whether they are guilty or not, and I don't understand how you have made up your mind that they are?

Unless you think the State has lied about the literal facts of the case you've a hard time trying to pretend that something very wrong didn't happen. For the love of God, even the rapists' mate knew they'd done something or else he wouldn't have tried to get her onside, or be charged with withholding information in the first place.

This is as clear cut a rape case as you'll find AZ and I would hope you're not regressive enough to fall for the lame excuses being thrown up on this thread.

[Keyser soze]

The only thing that's clear is that you're not right in the head chap.

[Milltown Row2]

"She was bladdered"......"did she go to the police the next day".....

Some of ye really need to take a look at yourselves.

I put a question mark at the end of that, I was asking the questions

some people only see and quote what they want

You probably should have read the article before commenting.

I'd already posted before that link became available... you shoulda checked the time of post

Go check the bottom of page 412, good lad.

I did'nt read that mister, and if I had have I'd have had a different post, now run along there

[AZOffaly]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal precedent, not something anyone outside of the judicial system adheres to.

It's a total cop out to try to use it and if you didn't realise that then you're even farther behind than I thought.

Can you explain that? Do you believe that everyone arrested for everything is guilty?

I can explain it very easily. If the evidence tells me someone is guilty I'll say they're guilty. I have no responsibility to give someone the benefit of the doubt because a court's legal precedent for a guilty verdict has not yet been reached.

It's a logical fallacy to use it in a discussion and the caveman types always hide behind it in rape cases or the sexual assault allegations of recent years. It does not work.

What 'evidence' have you seen? I'm sure the defence will give counter evidence based on consensual relations, etc etc. I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

As I said, they may well be guilty, but coming to that conclusion on the basis of newspaper reports is presumptuous to say the least. 

And before you say anything, I am absolutely not 'victim blaming' or trying to minimise it. I'm just saying that I have no idea whether they are guilty or not, and I don't understand how you have made up your mind that they are?

Unless you think the State has lied about the literal facts of the case you've a hard time trying to pretend that something very wrong happened. For the love of God, even the rapists' mate knew they'd done something or else he wouldn't have tried to get her onside, or be charged with withholding information in the first place.

This is as clear cut a rape case as you'll find AZ and I would hope you're not regressive enough to fall for the lame excuses being thrown up on this thread.

I'm not 'falling' for anything. I just don't know why you are assuming that what you've read in the independent is factual? At best it's just one side of the story.

I certainly wouldn't be applauding these two yahoos, or their other two luderamán friends. But it doesn't mean they are guilty of rape.

The only way you can tell for sure, is if you are in full possession of the facts of the case.

I don't think it's copping out, or being a caveman, to suggest that the only way to know is to weigh up all the evidence in a court of law.  I'm just puzzled by your certitude that they are guilty, and I was asking what that was based on. If it's just the same as what I read, then I just think you are majorly jumping the gun.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal precedent, not something anyone outside of the judicial system adheres to.

It's a total cop out to try to use it and if you didn't realise that then you're even farther behind than I thought.

Can you explain that? Do you believe that everyone arrested for everything is guilty?

I can explain it very easily. If the evidence tells me someone is guilty I'll say they're guilty. I have no responsibility to give someone the benefit of the doubt because a court's legal precedent for a guilty verdict has not yet been reached.

It's a logical fallacy to use it in a discussion and the caveman types always hide behind it in rape cases or the sexual assault allegations of recent years. It does not work.

What 'evidence' have you seen? I'm sure the defence will give counter evidence based on consensual relations, etc etc. I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

As I said, they may well be guilty, but coming to that conclusion on the basis of newspaper reports is presumptuous to say the least. 

And before you say anything, I am absolutely not 'victim blaming' or trying to minimise it. I'm just saying that I have no idea whether they are guilty or not, and I don't understand how you have made up your mind that they are?

Unless you think the State has lied about the literal facts of the case you've a hard time trying to pretend that something very wrong happened. For the love of God, even the rapists' mate knew they'd done something or else he wouldn't have tried to get her onside, or be charged with withholding information in the first place.

This is as clear cut a rape case as you'll find AZ and I would hope you're not regressive enough to fall for the lame excuses being thrown up on this thread.

I'm not 'falling' for anything. I just don't know why you are assuming that what you've read in the independent is factual? At best it's just one side of the story.

I certainly wouldn't be applauding these two yahoos, or their other two luderamán friends. But it doesn't mean they are guilty of rape.

The only way you can tell for sure, is if you are in full possession of the facts of the case.

I don't think it's copping out, or being a caveman, to suggest that the only way to know is to weigh up all the evidence in a court of law.  I'm just puzzled by your certitude that they are guilty, and I was asking what that was based on. If it's just the same as what I read, then I just think you are majorly jumping the gun.

Maybe one of the facts so far Syf is talking about and alluded to earlier was vaginal bleeding.  Even though the prosecution themselves said this isn't an indication of non-conseual sex.

[Minder]

They should be jailed for referring to themselves as "top shaggers" ffs

[seafoid]

Back to rugby

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/les-kiss-to-leave-ulster-rugby-post-with-immediate-effect-36552977.html

Les Kiss will leave his role as Ulster Rugby's Director Ruby with immediate effect.

The Australian joined Ulster in 2015 but has been under increasing pressure during a difficult season as Ulster crashed out of the European Champions Cup and are currently 13 points off the pace in their Guinness Pro 14 pool.

Ulster have lost three of their last fixtures, thrashed by Leinster and Connacht over the festive period before the disastrous defeat to Wasps in Coventry ended their hopes of reaching the Champions Cup knock-out stage.

"Ulster Rugby would like to thank Les for his commitment and wish him well in his future career," read a statement.

[screenexile]

Back to rugby

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/les-kiss-to-leave-ulster-rugby-post-with-immediate-effect-36552977.html

Les Kiss will leave his role as Ulster Rugby's Director Ruby with immediate effect.

The Australian joined Ulster in 2015 but has been under increasing pressure during a difficult season as Ulster crashed out of the European Champions Cup and are currently 13 points off the pace in their Guinness Pro 14 pool.

Ulster have lost three of their last fixtures, thrashed by Leinster and Connacht over the festive period before the disastrous defeat to Wasps in Coventry ended their hopes of reaching the Champions Cup knock-out stage.

"Ulster Rugby would like to thank Les for his commitment and wish him well in his future career," read a statement.

Shambles!!

[Walter Cronc]

Back to rugby

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/les-kiss-to-leave-ulster-rugby-post-with-immediate-effect-36552977.html

Les Kiss will leave his role as Ulster Rugby's Director Ruby with immediate effect.

The Australian joined Ulster in 2015 but has been under increasing pressure during a difficult season as Ulster crashed out of the European Champions Cup and are currently 13 points off the pace in their Guinness Pro 14 pool.

Ulster have lost three of their last fixtures, thrashed by Leinster and Connacht over the festive period before the disastrous defeat to Wasps in Coventry ended their hopes of reaching the Champions Cup knock-out stage.

"Ulster Rugby would like to thank Les for his commitment and wish him well in his future career," read a statement.

Shambles!!

Deserve all they get for shafting Brian McLaughlin. A whole overhaul is needed. Logan, Bryn Cunningham etc.

[gallsman]

They should be jailed for referring to themselves as "top shaggers" ffs

Agreed.

[AZOffaly]

They should be jailed for referring to themselves as "top shaggers" ffs

Agreed.

Hear, hear.

[Owen Brannigan]

Back to rugby

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/les-kiss-to-leave-ulster-rugby-post-with-immediate-effect-36552977.html

Les Kiss will leave his role as Ulster Rugby's Director Ruby with immediate effect.

The Australian joined Ulster in 2015 but has been under increasing pressure during a difficult season as Ulster crashed out of the European Champions Cup and are currently 13 points off the pace in their Guinness Pro 14 pool.

Ulster have lost three of their last fixtures, thrashed by Leinster and Connacht over the festive period before the disastrous defeat to Wasps in Coventry ended their hopes of reaching the Champions Cup knock-out stage.

"Ulster Rugby would like to thank Les for his commitment and wish him well in his future career," read a statement.

Shambles!!

Deserve all they get for shafting Brian McLaughlin. A whole overhaul is needed. Logan, Bryn Cunningham etc.

+1

Unfortunately another manager will be imposed by IRFU as with Kiss. Problem is a lack of genuine depth of the squad.  Logan, Cunningham, etc have shown incompetence in the foreign recruits who have proven to be made of glass and made no impact. The academy has failed to even become close to that in Leinster in producing local talent in any numbers that can reach even Ulster level.

[seafoid]

Sport has changed a lot. I was reading about the Galway hurlers. Suicide vigilance is now important. Then there is gambling. Plus sexual violence. I don't remember such things being much in the news 25 years ago.

[thewobbler]

Sport hasn't changed.

Communications techniques have.

[Milltown Row2]

Sport hasn't changed.

Communications techniques have.

Exactaly