The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Walter Cronc]

Great listen here lads.

http://anirishmanabroad.podbean.com/e/brian-odriscoll-episode-123/

[Crete Boom]

Henshaw will make more money playing for Leinster! How do you or why would restrict his movement? Players have an entitlement to maximise their revenue potential they are always only one injury away from retirement.

Leinster lost Felix Jones to Munster, they offered him a better deal, they lost Andrew Conway to Munster agin better deal. Marty Moore to Wasps better deal, that is the nature of professional sport. Faletau is moving to Bath, guess what better deal...

Connacht are doing very well on the pitch but run a deficit every year off it. D

One thing I'd liked about Pat Lam was he talked about getting rid of the chip off the shoulder, the team are playing with the freedom that gives, their supporters need to follow suit.

Connacht would just like to treated the same as the other provinces when it comes to contract renewals now that they have their house in order and doing their fair share ( at last) to contribute to Irish Rugby that's all.
Felix Jones and Andrew Conway were at best quality back ups at that time and moved from Leinster to secure first team rugby.
Henshaw is/was Connacht's biggest star and first name on the teamsheet for Connacht since he was 19!!
I feel for Leinster fans on the Marty Moore c**k up since it is obvious he wants to stay at Leinster and all he wanted was a fair contract from the IRFU but they offered him a pretty pathetic deal thinking nothing would go wrong only for Wasp's to step in and snap him up!!

The mantra of ridding the chip on the shoulder attitude comes form the (CEO) top down is not Pat's creation.THe IRFU in the last couple of months are severely testing this mantra though!!!

Connacht are still losing money, close to a million a year. Henshaw is moving to a central contract, I'm not sure if Leinster are adding to this with a Private Benefactor top-up although I should be able to confirm that in the next couple of weeks. Leinster lost Madigan as well, their budget is not limitless. But he will make more money playing for Leinster regardless of top-ups, his image rights are worth more as Leinster/Ireland player. That is a reality.

Add in that Leinster will probably win the Pro12, which will give an easier draw next year for the RCC, at a rugby level it makes more sense.

Henshaw has made a decision, he took close to three months so not an easy decision. He has played 5 games for Connacht this year, Connacht are where they are are because of excellent recruitment and even better coaching not because of one player.

It's very hard call this facts, more like conjecture or opinions!! He will be on a central contract so unless he had to move to Leinster for this contract then the IRFU are paying his wage and Connacht a deficit has no bearing on this unless a top up option is used.His image rights arguably are more dictated by him being an Ireland rugby star not whether he is a Connacht star or Leinster star because it is not like he is moving into a new media market by moving all of one hour up the motorway from Athlone to Dublin say like a NFL player moving for Arizona to New York!!!I would say Noel Reid and Craig Ronaldson would probably command the same amount of a fee for a corporate do in Galway or Dublin!!!!

Robbie is our star player and in all the really big games this year it has generally been him that has lit the spark for our biggest victories (Scarlets/Munster games) and we just don't have anyone to replace that or the means to replace that which is needed the higher Connacht go like the top four of the Pro 12 or the Champions Cup. Leinster I would argue have Luk Fitz and Gary Ringrose who wouldn't be far off that level in their squad or potentially that level anyway.

I think the point missed by most Leinster fans is Connacht Rugby fans would just like Leinster to admit that Robbie is potential world class  player that they wanted and it has nothing to do with the greater good of Irish Rugby (playing at a higher level/ more commercial opportunities etc...) and to take into account that the way Connacht seem to have been treated in this by the IRFU is very hard to swallow.
We were told that get your house in order and you can dine at the provincial table but stay as you are and you will be little more than a development province if even that , well you could argue we have got our house in order but it seems we still are a development province as the powers that be believe players like Robbie and Rodney Ahyou are needed elsewhere to fulfill their potential and Ireland's potential!!!

[Dinny Breen]

You haven't got your house in order you are losing money!

Of course playing for Leinster is a more attractive option to sponsors, what have Connacht won in the last 5 years.

I think the point missed by most Leinster fans is Connacht Rugby fans would just like Leinster to admit that Robbie is potential world class  player that they wanted and it has nothing to do with the greater good of Irish Rugby (playing at a higher level/ more commercial opportunities etc...) and to take into account that the way Connacht seem to have been treated in this by the IRFU is very hard to swallow.

More chip on the shoulder rubbish, if Henshaw wanted to stayed he would have stayed. It's a professional game, Leinster wanted a player and Leinster got the player because they have financial ability to make it happen. Same as Ulster and Rodney Ah-You, Connacht like Munster can't compete financially with Ulster and Munster, they both need to up their commercial and private money. You can't blame the IRFU for a player wanting to leave a province, you can't restrict player movement. Anyhow if the IRFU were going to move him they would have moved him to Munster. This is all Henshaw's decision. Players will always move to bigger clubs for financial and personal glory reasons. What have Connacht won compared to Leinster in the last 5 years, where are you guaranteed a better chance of success?

Wait till you hear about Pat Lam going to Munster in a years time...

[deiseach]

Jeez Dinny, that's harsh. Is that the official attitude of the IRFU? No wonder they were so utterly shafted when it came to the negotiations regarding the European club competitions. It's a bit hard to defend a redistributionist policy in Europe if you're not willing to apply one in Ireland.

[Crete Boom]

You haven't got your house in order you are losing money!

Of course playing for Leinster is a more attractive option to sponsors, what have Connacht won in the last 5 years.

I think the point missed by most Leinster fans is Connacht Rugby fans would just like Leinster to admit that Robbie is potential world class  player that they wanted and it has nothing to do with the greater good of Irish Rugby (playing at a higher level/ more commercial opportunities etc...) and to take into account that the way Connacht seem to have been treated in this by the IRFU is very hard to swallow.

More chip on the shoulder rubbish, if Henshaw wanted to stayed he would have stayed. It's a professional game, Leinster wanted a player and Leinster got the player because they have financial ability to make it happen. Same as Ulster and Rodney Ah-You, Connacht like Munster can't compete financially with Ulster and Munster, they both need to up their commercial and private money. You can't blame the IRFU for a player wanting to leave a province, you can't restrict player movement. Anyhow if the IRFU were going to move him they would have moved him to Munster. This is all Henshaw's decision. Players will always move to bigger clubs for financial and personal glory reasons. What have Connacht won compared to Leinster in the last 5 years, where are you guaranteed a better chance of success?

Wait till you hear about Pat Lam going to Munster in a years time...

Very harsh Dinny to dismiss my views ( and a lot of other Connacht fans views ) as chip on the shoulder rubbish as I think it is widely known in Rugby circles anyway that it wasn't as straightforward as Robbie deciding Leinster was where he wants to go.

Anyway my original post was in reply to Walter Cronc asking what the feeling of Connacht fans was about this move not whether it is right or wrong so I think I will leave at that.

"I think I will go back to pulling spuds with my hands after I doff my cap to our Leinster overlords and wish Robbie well bashing the ball up the 10 channel next year in the European Challenge Cup for the "Lions"( no offloads need apply here!!) and feel free to take a few other young tyros in need of a real Rugby up there in the commercial heaven that is south Dublin as their skin is probably to paisty white for the south of France anyway!!!!
Now that is almost Munster like in terms of chip on the shoulderness!!!

[Walter Cronc]

My opinion is that Henshaw should firstly have stayed at Connacht (especially if hes centrally contracted) and if he was going to move anywhere then it should have been to Munster.

In New Zealand the Chiefs/Highlanders were the perennial whipping boys but they always had a few All Blacks playing for them. No worries about image rights and exposure down there. Now it has went full circle with them two being arguably the strongest provincial sides in the country.

I can see Henshaw at 15 long term for Leinster - what would the point be in him and Ringrose competing for the 13 berth.

[Bord na Mona man]

Neither Munster or Connacht can offer him the opportunity to drink Pimms in Krystle with some of South Dublin's finest totty!

[Main Street]

It's very hard call this facts, more like conjecture or opinions!! He will be on a central contract so unless he had to move to Leinster for this contract then the IRFU are paying his wage and Connacht a deficit has no bearing on this unless a top up option is used.

Does that mean that Connacht are paying Henshaw's wages this season? And when he moves to Leinster, the IRFU will be paying his wages?

[Crete Boom]

It's very hard call this facts, more like conjecture or opinions!! He will be on a central contract so unless he had to move to Leinster for this contract then the IRFU are paying his wage and Connacht a deficit has no bearing on this unless a top up option is used.

Does that mean that Connacht are paying Henshaw's wages this season? And when he moves to Leinster, the IRFU will be paying his wages?

Well Technically it's all the IRFU wages because they fund the provinces but roughly the split is each province has their own kitty provide by the IRFU with which they are free to negotiate and pay the provincial contract wages out of independent of IRFU interference. When a player is centrally contracted the player deals directly with the IRFU and is payed by the IRFU if that makes any sense?

[Dinny Breen]

Jeez Dinny, that's harsh. Is that the official attitude of the IRFU? No wonder they were so utterly shafted when it came to the negotiations regarding the European club competitions. It's a bit hard to defend a redistributionist policy in Europe if you're not willing to apply one in Ireland.

How is it harsh? You can't force a player to stay, if Henshaw didn't go to Leinster he would have gone to France or England, his contract was up. Redistribution policy, we're probably the most parochial society in the world, have you not noticed how hard it is for players to move provinces.  Whereas in NZ or Australia it's considered the norm in Ireland it's almost considered a crime.

Once the IRFU accepted Private Benefactor cash this was always going to swing things in Leinster's favour, not only with wages but Leinster also got a €2.5m training complex and administrative offices paid for my a private benefactor. If the IRFU didn't allow PBs Irelands best players would all be heading to France, Leinster have lost 2 Irish International's Moore and Madigan as well don't forget. The IRFU have a finite budget nearly 95% generated by International TV rights, the club competitions are peanuts in comparison, of the €70m of this generated nearly half goes on the professional game. They have a fine balancing act and are already propping up Connacht who have never turned a profit and propping up Munster's white elephant stadium with a €10m loan. Connacht are heading in the right direction, Munster though are a disaster currently and their on-field performances are not helping.

I am Irish Rugby fan, I want to see strong provinces but I want to see a strong domestic game too, if we pump more money into the professional game, grassroots will suffer who already have development officers and infrastructure grants cut. (There's a warning in their for the GAA/GPA). Leinster were opportunistic and got a quality player but he's still no Brad Thorn or Rocky Elsom, that's unfortuantely an area where the provinces can't compete anymore. 

[deiseach]

It's harsh because you are telling Connacht that you will never better yourself and to get used to it. It may be a fair assessment of the reality of the situation, but I can't believe how you could not see that to be harsh.

[Main Street]

It's very hard call this facts, more like conjecture or opinions!! He will be on a central contract so unless he had to move to Leinster for this contract then the IRFU are paying his wage and Connacht a deficit has no bearing on this unless a top up option is used.

Does that mean that Connacht are paying Henshaw's wages this season? And when he moves to Leinster, the IRFU will be paying his wages?

Well Technically it's all the IRFU wages because they fund the provinces but roughly the split is each province has their own kitty provide by the IRFU with which they are free to negotiate and pay the provincial contract wages out of independent of IRFU interference. When a player is centrally contracted the player deals directly with the IRFU and is payed by the IRFU if that makes any sense?

That makes sense (I think)
A top player negotiates/agrees his own contract with the IRFU and there are a limited nr of contracts handed out. The contracts are handed out as long as they play with the irish provinces. 

And those players can choose whatever province wants them or is there a rational distribution of those  irfu contracted players to all the 4 provinces?

[seafoid]

Great player but he can't offload either.
Thank God the GAA is back

[Syferus]

Henshaw moving teams is madness. Cowardly stuff by the IRFU. Best back we've produced since Sexton.

[Dinny Breen]

It's harsh because you are telling Connacht that you will never better yourself and to get used to it. It may be a fair assessment of the reality of the situation, but I can't believe how you could not see that to be harsh.

No am I telling Connacht that their player where the fans ire should directed not the IRFU has chosen to go to another club because a) he will gain financially from it and b) he has more chance of success. That is the nature of professional sport, why did Sterling leave Liverpool?

Connacht are on a upward curve and maybe someday when they are financially viable they might be able to retain their best players, Leinster have loaned Gilsenan, Cooney and Roux this season, if Connacht didn't want to lose Henshaw to Leinster, should they be taking players on loan from Leinster, perhaps the Connacht management need to be asked their views?

The romantic wants to see Henshaw stay I appreciate that, but same in most professional sports outside a wages cap, money talks money wins. For a young man it's the right decision.

And for the record I hope Connacht win the Pro12, I am not a Leinster fan and I am just a rugby fan that sees it differently that all you romantic feckers.