The IRISH RUGBY thread

[omagh_gael]

Rugby is a real mess. Aside from the major rumbling issue of concussion and serious injury the game is fast becoming unwatchable. Bash it around a bit until you tire and f**k it up and then boot it as high as you can down the confines of the pitch. That first half was no smarter or refined than schools rugby. The rule changes around the '08 WC really fucked the game from then forward in my opinion.

What were the rule changes and what impact has it had?

[trileacman]

Rugby is a real mess. Aside from the major rumbling issue of concussion and serious injury the game is fast becoming unwatchable. Bash it around a bit until you tire and f**k it up and then boot it as high as you can down the confines of the pitch. That first half was no smarter or refined than schools rugby. The rule changes around the '08 WC really fucked the game from then forward in my opinion.

What were the rule changes and what impact has it had?

I'm not 100% on who the drivers behind it were but I think the aussies and to a degree SA/NZ wanted to change the game to combat the popularity of rugby league. Most of them were designed to favour the attacking team but for what I've seen I think they've warped the game into a more bash artistry style.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_law_variations

Bryan Habana was the first high profile player to criticise the laws, stating that they were turning the game into rugby league by eliminating most of the breaks in play.[11] There has also been criticism from many coaches, players and fans in the northern hemisphere. Sean Fitzpatrick, (former All Black hooker and most capped All Black of all time), Shaun Edwards (coach London Wasps/Wales), Warren Gatland (former All Black and coach Wales), Jason Leonard (most capped prop in history), Martin Johnson (2003 World Cup Winning captain and ex-England Coach), Brian Moore, Paul Ackford and Josh Kronfeld (All Black), amongst others have and continue to raise concerns that the Stellenbosch Laws will be to the detriment of the game. The reduction of breaks in the game, faster paced play and the tendency to mix backs and forwards requires the players to be fitter and more athletic. This may produce the desired effect for television viewers watching the elite players, but the requirements may make rugby virtually unplayable for participants at the amateur level, undermining a fundamental claim of Rugby Union, that it is a game for "all shapes and all sizes". The law allowing collapsing of a maul has become a major worry at community level because of the dangers it may cause inexperienced players.

Irish Coach Declan Kidney has observed that disallowing mauls at the breakdown means defences stay spread out, meaning less space for attackers, making it more difficult for an attacking side to advance, resulting in more kicking. In this case the ELVs, rather than encouraging attacking play have produced the opposite effect.[12]

Before anyone gets in a tizzy the games problems do go beyond the ELV's but I question anyone to tell me their intentions have been realised.

[Rudi]

Norths try today was something from a bygone era, wonderful side steps. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who attempt to play rugby. The rest just hammer the shite out of each other, pure and utter scutter. No wonder Ireland have the amount of injuries they have playing a full on contact game.

[Tony Baloney]

The All Blacks are trialling yet more variations this year.

[ONeill]

Found myself daydreaming about Simon Geoghegan scampering down the wing during that game.

[tiempo]

Norths try today was something from a bygone era, wonderful side steps. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who attempt to play rugby. The rest just hammer the shite out of each other, pure and utter scutter. No wonder Ireland have the amount of injuries they have playing a full on contact game.

Really, where was their guile v 13 man Aussies in the WC? Wales are arguably the anthesis of the Northern hemisphere crash bang wallop problem

[Rudi]

Norths try today was something from a bygone era, wonderful side steps. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who attempt to play rugby. The rest just hammer the shite out of each other, pure and utter scutter. No wonder Ireland have the amount of injuries they have playing a full on contact game.

Really, where was their guile v 13 man Aussies in the WC? Wales are arguably the anthesis of the Northern hemisphere crash bang wallop problem

They have massive centres who do the bang wallop crash ball thing. However compared to England (Vunipola et all), France (where has serge blanco gone) and Ireland they do spend at least 10 mins a game putting some width on the ball, plus the break leading up to the Roberts try was impressive. They f-cked up big time v Australia, but we're the northern hems top performers in the same WC.

[BarryBreensBandage]

The moment they had to bring on Madigan I knew the jig was probably up.  The lad couldn't manage an empty creche nevermind an international rugby match.

That kickoff to touch was our one chance to put pressure on the French in the final ten.

As has been said numerous times Paddy Jackson I the form fly half in Ireland and isn't on the team, Gilroy the form winger and McCloskey the form centre and Payne the form FB . . . Why are we not playing the lads who are performing??

Very true Screenexile - if I was an Ulster rugby fan from the other side of the house, I would be seriously questioning the selections made, and I don't think that Best being made captain would make any difference to my thinking.

[seafoid]

Found myself daydreaming about Simon Geoghegan scampering down the wing during that game.

I don't recall Ireland winning a lot of matches in his day.I remember being in a hotel near Lansdowne Road in 94 when Geoghegan walked in and the reaction of the women present.

[Hound]

Seems to be a disease going round Ireland, Leinster and Munster where they don't turn up for the 2nd half!

Shocking decision by the ref late on to give just the scrum from the deliberate French knock on. A pen would have given us a line out probably around the 22 and at least an opportunity to work a winning pen or DG attempt

[Bord na Mona man]

Was it coincidence, or masterful thinking from Noves keeping his better scrummagers on ice until the 2nd half?
Assuming he knew Ireland were there to cleaned, did he bide his time and create a train wreck instead of a car wreck?

The general verdict is that Ireland missed lots of opportunities to put the game beyond France, but I didn't see many clear cut chances.
Ireland best hope of tries is to bash over from close range, or gaelic football cross kicks and high catches in the try area. There just isn't players who can make breaks and finish from outfield.

Again, why do Ireland pick up so many injuries? You'd have to start thinking that Sexton and O'Brien are close to being finished at this stage. Neither of them will be able to string 3 consecutive injury free games together from now till the end of their careers.

[seafoid]

Rule changes are one thing but the size of players now is crazy and must have increased significantly since 2008.
The young lad was doing a Leinster rugby camp 2 years ago and two of the Leinster players rolled up on the Wednesday like something out of a freak show. And the French are even worse.
You can see pictures of rugby players and their gfs and sometimes you'd wonder how they work together.

[LeoMc]

Norths try today was something from a bygone era, wonderful side steps. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who attempt to play rugby. The rest just hammer the shite out of each other, pure and utter scutter. No wonder Ireland have the amount of injuries they have playing a full on contact game.

Really, where was their guile v 13 man Aussies in the WC? Wales are arguably the anthesis of the Northern hemisphere crash bang wallop problem

The Antithesis?
I would have said they were the epitome of crash bang rugby under Gatland.

[gallsman]

Norths try today was something from a bygone era, wonderful side steps. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who attempt to play rugby. The rest just hammer the shite out of each other, pure and utter scutter. No wonder Ireland have the amount of injuries they have playing a full on contact game.

Really, where was their guile v 13 man Aussies in the WC? Wales are arguably the anthesis of the Northern hemisphere crash bang wallop problem

The Antithesis?
I would have said they were the epitome of crash bang rugby under Gatland.

Absolutely. It's not called "Warrenball" for nothing ffs.

Even moving out wide for them has largely reduced to crash bang wallops since Shane Williams retired. North is incredible, but he's not what you'd call a slippery trickster or anything. He, like the others just blasts through or past people.

[Walter Cronc]

Saturday was really disappointing. I don't think I've ever seen an Irish side lacking such ability to score tries in a long time. Twickenham isnt exactly the place to hand out debuts so I'd be reluctant to throw McCloskey in for that one.

Regarding the Welsh - their whole rugby psyche is built on size and dominating the opposition. Look at their U20 sides this past 5 or 6 years. Absolutely huge players with all eyes on the Warrenball style of play.