The IRISH RUGBY thread

[lynchbhoy]

Thoughts ahead of Saturday. Will Heaslip be fit enough to start or is he best sprung from the bench?

Interesting to see who Schmidt will target aerially. George Ford was the target last day out when he dropped deep. Rhys Webb tends to help out his back 3 and could be the target this weekend.

I am not a fan of Warburton. In fact I rate Tipuric as better.

I think its gona be tight. The taffs are a cocky bunch.

He's not too shabby at the breakdown. Hopefully Ireland can put some clear distance between them and Wales and then maintain pressure til the end. If they allow Wales to come onto them the way England did, they may get punished.

Not so sure Tony. I think a lot of hype surrounds him and he isn't the player he was when he first burst on the seen. His turnover stats would be nowhere near McCaw/Pocock/Hooper etc

He was class today

+1

Hands up I'll admit he proved me wrong today. Wake up call for Ireland. Do no harm ahead of RWC.

But to be fair to you he was off form for quite a while

[Wildweasel74]

very poor start from Ireland put them badly on the back foot, saying that they still could have won the game, serious mistake with a flick out to Healy who flopped it with 4 or 5 against 2 out wide. Healy needs to stick to the basics of a prop, he beginning to believe his own hype in the loose. Why do we pass out near the line  to an isolated man and not 1 with 2/3 men behind him to push. Sexton and Murray were very poor and the lineout was all over the place, See Hook complaining about foreigners in the team and they are holding back good Irish talent, George must see the English and New Zealand teams who have plenty of outsiders playing for them.

[Capt Pat]

The game was  lost in the first 12 minutes. We were 12 nil down at that stage.

[Hardy]

I find now when I'm watching rugby, I'm looking at the referee as much as I am at the play. Even more now than in football, the referee is more important than any player in defining the direction of the game. And I'm not whinging about his effect on the result today - I'm sure Welsh people are giving out about refereeing decisions today. It's just that when you find yourself watching the referee's arm as much as what the players are doing, there's something wrong.

[JoG2]

Same perf as every other day
Diff was garland destroyed smicht tactics and wales didn't let Ireland play and negated sextons kicking game.
Again Ireland showed they had no clue on how to break through a defence other than a high ball into the corner - which was snuffed out today by the welsh ability in the air.
Lucky enough to get the penalty try. V unlucky with those last two penalties awarded to wales.
But they are natural rugby players and this inherent ability won't them the match.

Prob deserve to lose having that Ireland's dirge as the 'national anthem'


Not all bad though , most aspects of the game are there despite not executing them well today ( line outs) so the tactics for the World Cup can focus in breaking the line and how to score f**king tries.
Goal kicking alone won't win a World Cup IMO.

England did!

Do you honestly believe that?
Or is it lazy minded reminiscing ?
They had a fantastic well drilled pack and exceptional if under utilized backs all laying the platform to score tries or penalties that their pack /backs engineered.

Wilkinson executed the penalties. But he was not having to shoulder all the attacking play the way sexton has to. It's a single point of failure that wales figured out how to shut down and that won them the game today

Do I believe it, absolutely. Without Wilkinsons drop kicks and penalties,  England wouldn't have won that world cup. Now I'm not 6 years old, I do understand other stuff has to happen to allow the opportunity of kick

[Wildweasel74]

England werent even the best team the year they won it, think they got my respect if they had actually beat new Zealand not Australia to win the world cup as they were the best team that year.

[lynchbhoy]

Same perf as every other day
Diff was garland destroyed smicht tactics and wales didn't let Ireland play and negated sextons kicking game.
Again Ireland showed they had no clue on how to break through a defence other than a high ball into the corner - which was snuffed out today by the welsh ability in the air.
Lucky enough to get the penalty try. V unlucky with those last two penalties awarded to wales.
But they are natural rugby players and this inherent ability won't them the match.

Prob deserve to lose having that Ireland's dirge as the 'national anthem'


Not all bad though , most aspects of the game are there despite not executing them well today ( line outs) so the tactics for the World Cup can focus in breaking the line and how to score f**king tries.
Goal kicking alone won't win a World Cup IMO.

England did!

Do you honestly believe that?
Or is it lazy minded reminiscing ?
They had a fantastic well drilled pack and exceptional if under utilized backs all laying the platform to score tries or penalties that their pack /backs engineered.

Wilkinson executed the penalties. But he was not having to shoulder all the attacking play the way sexton has to. It's a single point of failure that wales figured out how to shut down and that won them the game today

Do I believe it, absolutely. Without Wilkinsons drop kicks and penalties,  England wouldn't have won that world cup. Now I'm not 6 years old, I do understand other stuff has to happen to allow the opportunity of kick

Interesting. But fair enough.

Ireland (Schmidt) IMO are actually trying to copy that game plan and keep things tight, force penalties ( eg so called choke tackles) and kick a win.
Difference is that England played well within themselves and had the ability to open things up with exceptional backs. Ireland don't have this threat in their back division.

Fortunately for me I love power pack forward oriented defensive rugby as this six nations has been rubbish for inventive creative expansive attacking rugby. England just messed up what should have been a certain try for the fourth time today !!

[Syferus]

I think the likes of Kearney, Bowe are world-class backs. On the front-foot at least Zebo can be too. Henshaw is one of the best young centres in the world too. Sexton/Murrary are maybe the best 9/10 combo in world rugby, certainly with Carter out. No shortage of ability in our back line.

[Hardy]

That try puts the beefeaters ahead of us on points difference.

[lynchbhoy]

Potential maybe

But based on the try scoring return/ability in the six nations - a resounding no.

[Sidney]

As a fair weather watcher of the game, I thought that Ireland had enough possession to win. The two key plays which let them down were clearly that prolonged period of pressure that ended after about 60 minutes with a penalty to Wales and the time with about eight or nine minutes left where they were camped on the line and failed to see the space out wide.

I've seen comments on various forums slating Jozef Schmidt over his "poor game plan". A couple of weeks ago he was the best coach in the world. When his game plan produces wins, he's eulogised. When it doesn't produce a win, he's "shown up for tactical naivety". The standard of debate amonsgt the general public on rugby is, in the words of Malcolm Tucker from The Thick Of It, low, soooo, soooo low (include sarcastic hand gesture to illustrate lowness).

Schmidt rightly recognises that Ireland can only win these type of matches in one way. Pretty much every other team apart from New Zealand can only win in the same way.

He rightly recognises that "top level" international rugby is now little more than a barbaric physical dirge, recognises that Ireland are limited in the backs (not that they'd be able to run the ball anyway even if they weren't limited) and has built a game plan based on eliminating mistakes. But some of his players made basic mistakes anyway either because they are naturally uncoordinated oafs (Best and Healy) or because they are probably still concussed and not fit to play (Sexton).

Running rugby at international level is pretty much thing of the past (at least when you have two evenly matched teams) and this is the reality. Ireland are a limited team in terms of running ability but this is not necessarily a stumbling block to winning a match because that's not how teams win these days. The result of a match now hinges on who wins the physical battle and makes least mistakes - Ireland had the better of the physical battle overall but made more basic mistakes. Eliminate those and Ireland would probably have won.

That, with the Wales-England game, was the best match of this championship and I thought Ireland in many ways played better than in the matches against France and England. But even at that there was little running rugby and the game was yet again mainly a barbaric physical battle. Even today's match was not an attractive spectacle for those of us who used to enjoy the running rugby of O'Driscoll, Geoghegan, Ringland and MacNeill etc, and when it's bad, as it was against France and England, it's utterly putrid. There would appear to be no place now for somebody like Zebo who does have running ability but is too small and lightweight for this level and was absolutely swatted aside all day and the same would no doubt go for the likes of Keith Earls.

I thought Paul O'Connell was inspirational, played like a true leader, did the job of the backs at times by making line breaks and was easily the best player on either team.

The constant physical collisions, rucks and mauls are making the game almost impossible to referee accurately and again I found myself baffled at a number of decisions, as I do in pretty much every match these days, particularly the penalty to Wales at the end. Rugby rules (sorry, laws) are like a secret handshake or something. I don't know or understand the handshake and I'm not sure anybody, even the players or referees, do, and there's no point anybody pretending otherwise.

[BarryBreensBandage]

Very good piece Sidney, and I totally agree with your assertion that it was mistakes that let Ireland down today. I still think Scmidt is a world class coach, but today has left a sense of doubt that we could be doing without.

That doubt for me is he had seemed to eradicate the old bad habits of Irish Rugby by instilling a confidence into the team that we recognised from his invincible Leinster teams - scrum, line-out, handling, but most of all, being able to take our chances.
Until Schmidt arrived, I had rarely seen an Ireland team being able to finish off a chance when they were 5 yards from the opposition try line.
Unfortunately today (apart from the scrum), all of the above came back to haunt us. When basic skills are not executed, in any sport, it is nigh on impossible to win. And for me, that is down to a lack of confidence in the individual or team.

That is what worries me - confidence low and invincibility gone. Something I did not expect from a Schmidt team at full strength.
The Welsh must be an awful team to follow as well - being able to play like that when it matters, and stumbling through other matches.

Also, I am sick of the sight of Gatland, from the Lions/O'Driscoll incident to today.

[Syferus]

Id prefer tests like that now than September. One loss is hardly much of a reason to fret.

[mouview]

Thought we have flattered to deceive a little during this campaign. Performance v Italy was turgid for a good while; narrow victory over a badly-managed and selected France team; better v England who were indisciplined. Today, we were one-dimensional, and I don't think our backs are as good as some may believe. We don't have great pace or imagination in our attack angles but international rugby is more and more about one big hit after another now anyway. Might have it all to do v Scotland who will be seeking to redeem something from a dismal campaign.

[BarryBreensBandage]

Id prefer tests like that now than September. One loss is hardly much of a reason to fret.

Would have been nice to have a grand slam going into wc though?