The IRISH RUGBY thread

[deiseach]

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

He said that? It's all very metaphysical and impossible to quantify, yet there is circumstantial evidence to suggest there is something to it. Maybe we should drum the memory of Michael Hogan into every Irish team that takes on the Brits and their colonial lackeys. We'd have to ignore the fact that most of the Irish people participating in sports like rugby and cricket would have applauded those doing the shooting on Bloody Sunday, but if Scottish sports fans can holler about Bannockburn while voting No, I'm sure we can perform the necessary mental gymnastics. Any equivalent in history for France?

[Hardy]

England had a penalty in front of the posts early on and George Ford took the free shot at a drop goal. He should have done what Conor Murray did when the opportunity arose. Smart play, and fantastic presence of mind by Henshaw to focus everything on getting the ball down. Great stuff all round.

That's always a gear grinder for me. It only makes sense when playing a penalty advantage to go for the drop goal if the penalty is going to be from a difficult position. You give yourself two chances at the three points. But now it's become the norm to go for the drop goal every time, which is madness if it's an easy penalty. You should risk everything for the try, no matter how unlikely, since the three points are guaranteed. But the majority of out-halves don't seem to understand this and are not coached in it and they just slavishly go for the drop every time because it's the fashion. Really stupid.

[johnneycool]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

There's probably something in that alright.
There something that doesn't sit well with us and the confident sportsman, we prefer our humble Brian O'Driscoll or Henry Shefflin to the likes of a David Campese who by and large was able to back up some of his arrogance on the field of play.

The likes of McGregor shouting his mouth off is a prime example. The lad may be very good at what he does and may indeed be a good fighter, but the fact that he's mouthing off doesn't endear himself to the Irish general public, but the Yanks love that sort of shít.

The Irish rugby lads need to go into the next few games against Scotland and Wales expecting to win, rather than hoping to win and it seems Schmit may be on that page.

[screenexile]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Take Ireland's performances in the last two RWC's as evidence for that if ever it were needed!!!

[AZOffaly]

England had a penalty in front of the posts early on and George Ford took the free shot at a drop goal. He should have done what Conor Murray did when the opportunity arose. Smart play, and fantastic presence of mind by Henshaw to focus everything on getting the ball down. Great stuff all round.

That's always a gear grinder for me. It only makes sense when playing a penalty advantage to go for the drop goal if the penalty is going to be from a difficult position. You give yourself two chances at the three points. But now it's become the norm to go for the drop goal every time, which is madness if it's an easy penalty. You should risk everything for the try, no matter how unlikely, since the three points are guaranteed. But the majority of out-halves don't seem to understand this and are not coached in it and they just slavishly go for the drop every time because it's the fashion. Really stupid.

I agree. We were speaking in another thread about the definition of a shot to nothing, but a penalty advantage, in an attacking position, in Rugby is the very epitome of it. You literally cannot lose. Worst case you'll get the shot at goal anyway. Why you waste your free shot on a drop goal is a mystery, except where the penalty is very difficult, or where there is literally nothing on and you just give yourself 2 shots.

[screenexile]

Also did anyone think it disrespectful for Lancaster to say he saw Ireland as "a potential Banana skin".

That sort of term is used in the FA Cup for Chelsea v Bradford or United v Cambridge but I don't see how England could have looked at that game as if they were favourites given our current run. Cheeky cnuts!!

[deiseach]

An outhalf stroking their ego? I really can't think of any other explanation as to why you'd take the drop goal.

[AZOffaly]

Also did anyone think it disrespectful for Lancaster to say he saw Ireland as "a potential Banana skin".

That sort of term is used in the FA Cup for Chelsea v Bradford or United v Cambridge but I don't see how England could have looked at that game as if they were favourites given our current run. Cheeky cnuts!!

I doubt he meant it like that. I imagine he meant it as a game they could easily lose.

[Hardy]

I don't know that the underdog mentality is a national characteristic. I think it's just as likely to be a characteristic of teams that are not used to being successful. Success breeds not just success but confidence. Failure breeds fear, pessimism and lack of self-belief. There's also the huge factor that successful teams have - the knowledge, based on experience, of how to win. Often you need that in addition to being the better team.

There was a time, not too long ago, when my team went into every game expecting to win. That expectation was often the major factor in actually winning, especially when the opposition bought into the invincibility myth and couldn't imagine themselves winning, even when they were well ahead with the game nearly over. We won a huge number of games in those circumstances. Even the supporters were caught up in the self belief and there was a while there when we didn't just hope - we KNEW the comeback would come and we would win. I'm certain the team felt the same. And so did the opposition in many cases.

It's not like that now. It's getting worryingly like the opposite. Neither state of affairs is innate in our character. It's just the contrasting consequences of serial success and serial failure.

[muppet]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

[gallsman]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

Not so sure on that. As many dislike Keane and McGregor as love them. Dislike of McIlroy tends to have nothing to do with ego or braggadocio (of which he displays very little) and everything to do with what religious and political beliefs he may or may not have.

[seafoid]

One thing that isn't great about this Irish team is that you don't really fancy them to close out games. They survive rather than thrive.

Go back the last 3 or 4 years. The defeat to New Zealand obviously enough. 2 draws vs France when they were a decent bit ahead. Last year they barely closed out the win in Paris, this year shouldn't have ended up a one score game.

2 years ago in Cardiff when they 27 points ahead and still let Wales back to 8 points. The year before when they had a 6 point lead over Wales late on and lost to an unconverted try and a penalty.

England had a couple of decent try chances in the last quarter and had they nailed one of them, how confident would everyone have been of Ireland holding on?
Sexton and O'Brien going off obviously changed things, but Ireland mentally go into retreat when they have a lead against top tier opposition.

Sexton going off was massive. Madigan is not at the same level and it was a tight enough match where accuracy was vital and he didn't have it. 

[seafoid]

I don't know that the underdog mentality is a national characteristic. I think it's just as likely to be a characteristic of teams that are not used to being successful. Success breeds not just success but confidence. Failure breeds fear, pessimism and lack of self-belief. There's also the huge factor that successful teams have - the knowledge, based on experience, of how to win. Often you need that in addition to being the better team.

There was a time, not too long ago, when my team went into every game expecting to win. That expectation was often the major factor in actually winning, especially when the opposition bought into the invincibility myth and couldn't imagine themselves winning, even when they were well ahead with the game nearly over. We won a huge number of games in those circumstances. Even the supporters were caught up in the self belief and there was a while there when we didn't just hope - we KNEW the comeback would come and we would win. I'm certain the team felt the same. And so did the opposition in many cases.

It's not like that now. It's getting worryingly like the opposite. Neither state of affairs is innate in our character. It's just the contrasting consequences of serial success and serial failure.

Modesty is a national characteristic. You have to laugh at kilkenny hurlers saying "yeah, we're not a bad team". 

[Franko]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

Not so sure on that. As many dislike Keane and McGregor as love them. Dislike of McIlroy tends to have nothing to do with ego or braggadocio (of which he displays very little) and everything to do with what religious and political beliefs he may or may not have.

Bollocks... can't let you away with that.  It seems that it's fine to express a dislike for Keane/McGregor/any other sports star you care to mention - but not McIlroy.  If you don't like him it MUST be cos he's a fenian who likes themmuns.  I think it's you that's obsessed with whatever religion/politics he expresses!

[Walter Cronc]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

Not so sure on that. As many dislike Keane and McGregor as love them. Dislike of McIlroy tends to have nothing to do with ego or braggadocio (of which he displays very little) and everything to do with what religious and political beliefs he may or may not have.

Bollocks... can't let you away with that.  It seems that it's fine to express a dislike for Keane/McGregor/any other sports star you care to mention - but not McIlroy.  If you don't like him it MUST be cos he's a fenian who likes themmuns.  I think it's you that's obsessed with whatever religion/politics he expresses!

I'm curious to know (sorry going off-topic) but what is it people dont like about McIlroy?