The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Hound]

The Leinster camp were particularly annoyed with Penney's comments on Monday where he stated that "This is one of those incidents where there is nothing really to be concerned about".

Given Kearney was completely knocked out, hospitalised, underwent CT scans, I think its understandble that Schmidt and Cullen felt like someone was rubbing salt into the wound.

You have no right to kick someone in the head, no matter where they are lying. He clearly and obviously didnt aim for Kearney's head, but he didnt care that to get to the ball he'd have to connect with Kearney's head.   

[deiseach]

It is a physical sport and what POC did was very careless, you cannot cite him if he has played within the laws. You cannot just make up a laws after the game and tell someone they broke it.

Law 10.4 - Dangerous Play and Misconduct

(c) Kicking.
A player must not kick an opponent.

[highorlow]

Thanks for that deiseach.

For the Law 10.4 to be applied the first test is to question was the play both Dangerous and Misconduct as the heading explicitly states.

On POC's part it was perhaps dangerous, as for misconduct this is where POC played within the Law's "A misconduct is a legal term meaning a wrongful, improper, or unlawful conduct motivated by premeditated or intentional purpose or by obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts".

It is obvious from the footage that POC neither intended or premeditated the act.

Of course kicking a player is unacceptable but only, as proven above, if  the play is deemed dangerous and misconduct. This is where Joe Smidth needs to learn the rules and laws of the game!

Penny was probably foolish to make any comment at all and I don't know the exact context of his comment was but he is actually more correct than the palaver Smidth is coming out with.

Bit of reading for you below.

14.1 Players on the ground
(a)
A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
Get up with the ball
Pass the ball
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)
A player who passes or releases the ball must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c)
A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

[The Burner]

Of course he's anti munster, he's Leinster manager for Christ's sake!

I'm still trying to make sense of that.

The ball was close to Kearney's head. There is no rule against challenging for the ball. It was unfortunate that O'Connell's shin made slight contact with Kearneys head.

Whether you think it was reckless or not and everyone will have a different opinion is not the point. The point is if the shoe was on the other foot and O'Driscoll was involved I doubt you would hear any snid bullshit comments from the Munster camp.

May Smidth go back to where he came from after his comments for all I care.

Slight contact - he was knocked out for Gods sake.

Joe Schmidt is right to highlight that his player David Kearney is still in hospital yet the perpetrator is deemed by an Irish citing officer not to have a case. He needs to stand up for his player and the spirit of the game.

And a bit of casual racism to boot.

Again, He is not still in Hospital

Take it up with Fergus McFadden

Fergus McFadden ‏@fergmcfadden 16 Apr

Nice gesture but don't think he is out of hospital yet... #CarelessCoffee pic.twitter.com/9fOI9aqh79
View photo

Think Ill take the word of the official Leinster website on this Dinny

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/9641.php

[deiseach]

Thanks for that deiseach.

For the Law 10.4 to be applied the first test is to question was the play both Dangerous and Misconduct as the heading explicitly states.

On POC's part it was perhaps dangerous, as for misconduct this is where POC played within the Law's "A misconduct is a legal term meaning a wrongful, improper, or unlawful conduct motivated by premeditated or intentional purpose or by obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts".

It is obvious from the footage that POC neither intended or premeditated the act.

Of course kicking a player is unacceptable but only, as proven above, if  the play is deemed dangerous and misconduct. This is where Joe Smidth needs to learn the rules and laws of the game!

Penny was probably foolish to make any comment at all and I don't know the exact context of his comment was but he is actually more correct than the palaver Smidth is coming out with.

Bit of reading for you below.

14.1 Players on the ground
(a)
A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
Get up with the ball
Pass the ball
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)
A player who passes or releases the ball must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c)
A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

I don't see anyone claiming Paul O'Connell kicked Dave Kearney deliberately, not even Joe Schmidt. If O'Connell meant it, he needs locking up. But since no one has made that argument, bringing it up is a straw man. I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules. And by his own words, Paul O'Connell has demonstrated that in spades. He kicks a man in the head and when he looks at the footage his only concern is that he might get cited at an awkward time of the season? Shameful.

[The Burner]

Thanks for that deiseach.

For the Law 10.4 to be applied the first test is to question was the play both Dangerous and Misconduct as the heading explicitly states.

On POC's part it was perhaps dangerous, as for misconduct this is where POC played within the Law's "A misconduct is a legal term meaning a wrongful, improper, or unlawful conduct motivated by premeditated or intentional purpose or by obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts".

It is obvious from the footage that POC neither intended or premeditated the act.

Of course kicking a player is unacceptable but only, as proven above, if  the play is deemed dangerous and misconduct. This is where Joe Smidth needs to learn the rules and laws of the game!

Penny was probably foolish to make any comment at all and I don't know the exact context of his comment was but he is actually more correct than the palaver Smidth is coming out with.

Bit of reading for you below.

14.1 Players on the ground
(a)
A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
Get up with the ball
Pass the ball
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)
A player who passes or releases the ball must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c)
A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

I don't see anyone claiming Paul O'Connell kicked Dave Kearney deliberately, not even Joe Schmidt. If O'Connell meant it, he needs locking up. But since no one has made that argument, bringing it up is a straw man. I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules. And by his own words, Paul O'Connell has demonstrated that in spades. He kicks a man in the head and when he looks at the footage his only concern is that he might get cited at an awkward time of the season? Shameful.

Ah come on now Deiseach, Immediately after the incident he checked if he was ok and Id be fairly sure he has apologised for it to Kearney. There is nothing wrong with what O Connell said so dont be making an issue out of nothing

[deiseach]

I don't see anyone claiming Paul O'Connell kicked Dave Kearney deliberately, not even Joe Schmidt. If O'Connell meant it, he needs locking up. But since no one has made that argument, bringing it up is a straw man. I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules. And by his own words, Paul O'Connell has demonstrated that in spades. He kicks a man in the head and when he looks at the footage his only concern is that he might get cited at an awkward time of the season? Shameful.

Ah come on now Deiseach, Immediately after the incident he checked if he was ok and Id be fairly sure he has apologised for it to Kearney. There is nothing wrong with what O Connell said so dont be making an issue out of nothing

Don't shoot the messenger.

[Dinny Breen]

Of course he's anti munster, he's Leinster manager for Christ's sake!

I'm still trying to make sense of that.

The ball was close to Kearney's head. There is no rule against challenging for the ball. It was unfortunate that O'Connell's shin made slight contact with Kearneys head.

Whether you think it was reckless or not and everyone will have a different opinion is not the point. The point is if the shoe was on the other foot and O'Driscoll was involved I doubt you would hear any snid bullshit comments from the Munster camp.

May Smidth go back to where he came from after his comments for all I care.

Slight contact - he was knocked out for Gods sake.

Joe Schmidt is right to highlight that his player David Kearney is still in hospital yet the perpetrator is deemed by an Irish citing officer not to have a case. He needs to stand up for his player and the spirit of the game.

And a bit of casual racism to boot.

Again, He is not still in Hospital

Take it up with Fergus McFadden

Fergus McFadden ‏@fergmcfadden 16 Apr

Nice gesture but don't think he is out of hospital yet... #CarelessCoffee pic.twitter.com/9fOI9aqh79
View photo

Think Ill take the word of the official Leinster website on this Dinny

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/9641.php

No better men, well the victim still hasn't returned to work shall we say.

[Dinny Breen]

Interesting what Cullen has to say on the manner, this is the same Cullen who testified on behalf of Alan Quinlan after the hand to eye incident.

After Joe Schmidt yesterday spoke out strongly against the decision not to cite Paul O'Connell over the incident which left Dave Kearney with a concussion, Leo Cullen has also criticised the decision of Citing Commissioner Eddie Walsh.

Cullen is quoted in today's Irish Times describing the kick as 'extremely reckless' and talked about how his faith in the disciplinary process had 'changed' as a result of O'Connell not being cited. Cullen even went as far to suggest that O'Connell could still be cited.

Cullen's comments are especially interesting given how unusual it is for a rugby player to call for disciplinary measures against a fellow player and in this case, a colleague at international level. Indeed Cullen himself attended a hearing in defence of Alan Quinlan after Quinlan was accused of making contact with his eyes.

[The Burner]

I don't see anyone claiming Paul O'Connell kicked Dave Kearney deliberately, not even Joe Schmidt. If O'Connell meant it, he needs locking up. But since no one has made that argument, bringing it up is a straw man. I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules. And by his own words, Paul O'Connell has demonstrated that in spades. He kicks a man in the head and when he looks at the footage his only concern is that he might get cited at an awkward time of the season? Shameful.

Ah come on now Deiseach, Immediately after the incident he checked if he was ok and Id be fairly sure he has apologised for it to Kearney. There is nothing wrong with what O Connell said so dont be making an issue out of nothing

Don't shoot the messenger.

Your not the messenger!

[highorlow]

I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules

That is not part of the rules but one of the legal definitions of miss-conduct I found on-line.

Your failing to read the grammatical conjunction so I'm not going to take your responses seriously anymore.

[Dinny Breen]

I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules

That is not part of the rules but one of the legal definitions of miss-conduct I found on-line.

Your failing to read the grammatical conjunction so I'm not going to take your responses seriously anymore.

Brilliant!!!

[deiseach]

I don't see anyone claiming Paul O'Connell kicked Dave Kearney deliberately, not even Joe Schmidt. If O'Connell meant it, he needs locking up. But since no one has made that argument, bringing it up is a straw man. I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules. And by his own words, Paul O'Connell has demonstrated that in spades. He kicks a man in the head and when he looks at the footage his only concern is that he might get cited at an awkward time of the season? Shameful.

Ah come on now Deiseach, Immediately after the incident he checked if he was ok and Id be fairly sure he has apologised for it to Kearney. There is nothing wrong with what O Connell said so dont be making an issue out of nothing

Don't shoot the messenger.

Your not the messenger!

I gave a link to what Paul O'Connell said.

[magpie seanie]

Within the Laws of the game, as Kearney is lying on the ground and he has placed the ball he is now out of the game. The ball is now out, his hand does not have to leave the ball. Under the Laws of the game it is Kearney responsible to role away or to protect himself (something you are told U8s). Because the ball is out POC under the laws is allowed to kick it and if a ball is out and on the ground and a player has not recovered it (in full control of the ball) he can kick it. If another player tries to block it and gets kicked that is that players own responsibility. Yes it was dangerous but in terms of the laws of the game he did nothing out of place therefore the citing commissioner cannot cite him as what he did was within the laws of the game. It is a physical sport and what POC did was very careless, you cannot cite him if he has played within the laws. You cannot just make up a laws after the game and tell someone they broke it.


Smidth of all people should know this and his reaction was unprofessional and lacked judgement and this is why I was so angry with him. My opinion of him has diminished as a result and I hope he doesn't land the Irish job.




p.s. The ref on the day was not Irish, I presume the linesmen weren't either.

Good post. Sums up my feelings on it.

[deiseach]

I notice you don't address the "obstinate indifference to the consequences of one's acts" part of the rules

That is not part of the rules but one of the legal definitions of miss-conduct I found on-line.

Your failing to read the grammatical conjunction so I'm not going to take your responses seriously anymore.

Brilliant!!!

Irony is dead.