The IRISH RUGBY thread

[From the Bunker]

17-15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pIursHmEZc

Ah, a total legend. Did it when it counted, 90% of the time. Would not write him off totally. A new manager next year might look for one more year!

[tyroneboi]

My favourite non-Irish O'Gara memory is when he slagged off English Rugby on the eve of a H Cup game against Leicester at Welford Road. The knives were out for him and when the game was there to be won in the last few minutes he nailed a penalty from the half way line. Serious set of balls on him!!

Never afraid to speak his mind as the mentioned article proves: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/oct/17/rugbyunion.comment

[stephenite]

Someone more eloquent and rugby savvy than me should start a dedicated thread to a real legend of Irish sport.

[Applesisapples]

Not an expert on Rugby by any means, but I have a number of thoughts or questions on this. Firstly why would the Captain insist that a youngster starting his first 6 nations match kick to the posts from an acute angle on his weaker side, why not kick for touch. Why then when presented with kickable penalties from the other side kick for touch when you know your lineup is shite and Rory Best couldn't have hit a dart board from 2 feet the way he was throwing. Why not develop and carry 2 or 3 kickers as other teams do and indeed other codes, (maybe Aaron Kernan could be drafted to take the left footers!) to take longer kicks and from left and right. Sexton is a leader on the pitch both vocally and the way he plays, why would his position stop him being captain, Rory Best is a leader even if he did have an off day, or is he too Ulster Proddy to captain Ireland? And finally the flack that Jackson has taken is unfair. I remember occasions when O'Gara missed easier kicks. Jackson was handed a difficult job on Sunday and one his Captain proceeded to make more difficult.

Not an expert on Rugby by any means, but I have a number of thoughts or questions on this.

Firstly why would the Captain insist that a youngster starting his first 6 nations match kick to the posts from an acute angle on his weaker side, why not kick for touch.

He's an international place kicker. Nobody has 100% accuracy from kicking, but it's generally accepted that at the start of matches and in close matches, you take every kick at goal you can get.


Why then when presented with kickable penalties from the other side kick for touch when you know your lineup is shite and Rory Best couldn't have hit a dart board from 2 feet the way he was throwing.

Mainly because the captain had lost confidence  in his kicking ability. As for Rory Best, his throwing improved immeasurably over the course of the game, and he has been a key part of a strong irish line-out for a number of years.


Why not develop and carry 2 or 3 kickers as other teams do and indeed other codes, (maybe Aaron Kernan could be drafted to take the left footers!) to take longer kicks and from left and right.

If they haven't developed as reliable kickers by the time they become internationals, they're not going to do it when they are internationals. Booting an oval ball 50 yards is unnatural anyway, but doing so when 50,000 in the crowd and 500,000 at home demand excellence, will show up any flaws in techniques. There is an oddity in Irish rugby in that there are so few place kickers at provincial level who play anything but out-half, but that's not a problem the national team has created.


Sexton is a leader on the pitch both vocally and the way he plays, why would his position stop him being captain,

Because a no.10 is the most important decision maker in every attacking play, and needs to concentrate on that aspect of the game, they are rarely burdened with worrying about what forwards are up to, or who is doing what in defensive lines.


Rory Best is a leader even if he did have an off day, or is he too Ulster Proddy to captain Ireland?

Oh FFS, grow up.


And finally the flack that Jackson has taken is unfair. I remember occasions when O'Gara missed easier kicks. Jackson was handed a difficult job on Sunday and one his Captain proceeded to make more difficult.

Jackson hasn't actually taken that much flak. There's very few people who have been outwardly dismissive of him. There were bigger issues with Ireland's performance on Saturday. But in all likelihood, despite those issues, with a better kicker, Ireland would have probably won.

modified: Also, ROG has won more MOTM awards than he count for doing very little more than kicking the ball over the posts. That's the rub with being a placekicker; when you miss, it's all you.

I'm not having a go. I agree with all that you say and I know Best was only having an off day. Maybe I am confused but the easier kicks came up earlier in the game and that was my issue. In relation to developing kickers it is up to the IRFU to work with the Provinces to do this.

[Declan]

All great things come to an end. Thanks for the memories Ronan. A legend of Irish rugby

[AZOffaly]

I hope he now gets a little bit of respect. Some of the comments here have been very rough on a man who obviously is very proud to play for Ireland, and who has given some great service to the national team since he came on board. It was sad to see the way it ended for him, but no one should ever forget what he contributed.

I was afraid to say this before now for fear of being labelled a Munster homer, but some of the people who have been going OTT on him need to take a look at themselves.

[Mont]

irish legend who somewat tarnished his career wit some dodgy perfromances recently.

serious set of balls

[deiseach]

A career bookended by contrasting performances against Scotland. There were plenty of talking heads who were scornful of the idea that throwing in all the young Turks like O'Gara, Stringer and Horgan would make a blind bit of difference after the Twickenham debacle. So they went out and gave Scotland an absolute hiding then won in Paris for the first time in a million years. Still an Alone It Stands moment in the Stade de France. Intoxicating stuff for Irish rugby fans, and the best was yet to come. That O'Gara has been, and will be, missed.

[thewobbler]

I hope he now gets a little bit of respect. Some of the comments here have been very rough on a man who obviously is very proud to play for Ireland, and who has given some great service to the national team since he came on board. It was sad to see the way it ended for him, but no one should ever forget what he contributed.

I was afraid to say this before now for fear of being labelled a Munster homer, but some of the people who have been going OTT on him need to take a look at themselves.

I could never warm to him AZ.


There is no doubt at all that he had nerves of steel, and he did deliver some big performances regularly for Ireland.

But due to his glaring weaknesses in the tackle, and the complete absence of a line break, he wasn't world class, and shouldn't (in my opinion) be considered a "great".

My frank assessment of Ireland's fly-halves in the past 15 years is that Jonny Sexton and David Humphreys are/were better players. For ROG to be considered a great, we in Ireland have either been truly blessed in the no.10 position, or maybe don't have the highest standards.

[johnneycool]

ROG's inability to tackle was only highlighted when David Wallace who'd the speed to match some wingers didn't make it off the back of the scrum in time to cover it. With Wallace gone ROG hadn't the same cover.

Still credit where its due, he'd some set of knackers on him and certainly made the best of what he had and that is to be commended in anyone. If anything he stayed on a 6N too many and he'll know that himself ,but hindsight is a wonderful thing. He'd more good days than bad days in an Ireland and Munster jersey and has much to be proud of.

[Walter Cronc]

I hope he now gets a little bit of respect. Some of the comments here have been very rough on a man who obviously is very proud to play for Ireland, and who has given some great service to the national team since he came on board. It was sad to see the way it ended for him, but no one should ever forget what he contributed.

I was afraid to say this before now for fear of being labelled a Munster homer, but some of the people who have been going OTT on him need to take a look at themselves.

I could never warm to him AZ.


There is no doubt at all that he had nerves of steel, and he did deliver some big performances regularly for Ireland.

But due to his glaring weaknesses in the tackle, and the complete absence of a line break, he wasn't world class, and shouldn't (in my opinion) be considered a "great".

My frank assessment of Ireland's fly-halves in the past 15 years is that Jonny Sexton and David Humphreys are/were better players. For ROG to be considered a great, we in Ireland have either been truly blessed in the no.10 position, or maybe don't have the highest standards.

No way was Humphreys better than ROG!! You could never rely on his kicking when under pressure. That 10-9 defeat to France in Lansdowne still haunts me!!

[seafoid]

People will remember the good days. Record caps, all the points, the kicks that counted.
Sure every GAA county or club has great players that fade eventually. It is not so easy to bow out on top.

As the Follower said in the Donegal Democrat one time about players who bring such joy

"they will be remembered amongst their people".  O'Gara is one of those. No higher honour in sport than that.

And wasn't the whole team poor against Scotland ? 

[thewobbler]

No way was Humphreys better than ROG!! You could never rely on his kicking when under pressure. That 10-9 defeat to France in Lansdowne still haunts me!!

It was a horrible, horrible miss. But DH did improve immeasurably as a kicker in the following years.

There's not much between ROG and DH. Both appalling in the tackle. ROG the steadier player, DH the more intuitive and mercurial. Probably the biggest difference in their Ireland careers was timing. DH spent his formative years in a state of demoralisation, behind a beaten pack that changed faces every week. ROG spent most of his career behind a settled and accomplished pack.

[deiseach]

No way was Humphreys better than ROG!! You could never rely on his kicking when under pressure. That 10-9 defeat to France in Lansdowne still haunts me!!

He made up for it in Paris the following year in fairness. What was more indicative of the difference between Humphreys and O'Gara was the former knocking over a couple of drop goals against Northampton in the 2002/3 Heineken Cup when anything other than a bonus point victory was practically useless. There's no way O'Gara would have thought winning the game was good enough as Humphreys seemed to think when interviewed after the game.

[deiseach]

As the Follower said in the Donegal Democrat one time about players who bring such joy

"they will be remembered amongst their people".  O'Gara is one of those. No higher honour in sport than that.

History will look kindly on O'Gara in that respect. It'll be harder for Jonny Sexton to be looked at in the same light when he's doing it week-in-week-out for some other set of people. And no, I'm not saying Sexton was wrong to take the Racing Metro shilling, but all other things being equal his status among Irish rugby fans will be diminished.