The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Capt Pat]

Ireland were missing their best players on this tour. Ferris, Bowe and O'Connell. They were missing Ross the anchor of the scrum in the first test and Heaslip today. BOD may be past his best.

O Connell and Ferris would have taken the forward play up a notch.

[Hardy]

Once again a few arseholes see a tanking scoreline and all of a sudden are rugby experts and feel obliged to stick the boot in.

Oh, you want to have a name-calling game. OK.

Once again an opinionated t**ser sees an opportunity to present himself as an expert, exasperated at the uninformed opinions of us mere rabble. That's even if it means defending the indefensible position that a loss of record proportions in the history of the game, incurred by people who get paid to ensure this doesn't happen, represents something other than a spectacular failure to do that job.

Your turn.

What excuse can there be for a professional team to lose 60-0? That's just a spectacular failure to do your job, no matter how you look at it.

Wtf? Werent the other team professional too??

Er, yes. They won 60-0. Fire away and defend a 60-0 defeat and expecting to get paid for it.

[Hardy]

Result 60-0. Couldn't watch it. Just switched over to the stream once in a while to see the score. Every time I did it was replaying a NZ try.

Our international sports representatives (bar the racing men) have been embarrassing the country now for the whole month of June.

thats a wee bit harsh, i thought we were great last week in the 2nd test. Another "glorious defeat" of which Roy Keane wouldnt approve of, but credit where credit is due.

Carlow could have made it a worse June for ye 

Not harsh enough, I'd argue. What excuse can there be for a professional team to lose 60-0? That's just a spectacular failure to do your job, no matter how you look at it. At least the soccer supporters didn't tarnish the reputation of the country which, I gather, may be more than can be said for the ruggerites.

(Carlow would have done us a favour. Kildare will finish the job next week.)

Cad a tharla?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0619/1224318196069.html


On the other hand, commenting on the behaviour of a few people in a crowd of 40,000 may be a bit over the top and if the NZ cops hadn't issued a statement we probably would have heard nothing about it. It does seem, though, to be part of an emerging pattern of loutish carry-on by a proportion of our emigrants in the Southern hemisphere, as commented on here before and as I've had confirmed first hand from Perth.

[trileacman]

Once again a few arseholes see a tanking scoreline and all of a sudden are rugby experts and feel obliged to stick the boot in.

Oh, you want to have a name-calling game. OK.

Once again an opinionated t**ser sees an opportunity to present himself as an expert, exasperated at the uninformed opinions of us mere rabble. That's even if it means defending the indefensible position that a loss of record proportions in the history of the game, incurred by people who get paid to ensure this doesn't happen, represents something other than a spectacular failure to do that job.

Your turn.
/quote]

Right since you feel your money is being wasted you may go out and employ a few new players. Try an ad in the Sindo. Or you can try increasing the pay of the players, since the idea that the fact the players are paid should dictate that they should play to your perceived standards.

[Hardy]

Once again a few arseholes see a tanking scoreline and all of a sudden are rugby experts and feel obliged to stick the boot in.

Oh, you want to have a name-calling game. OK.

Once again an opinionated t**ser sees an opportunity to present himself as an expert, exasperated at the uninformed opinions of us mere rabble. That's even if it means defending the indefensible position that a loss of record proportions in the history of the game, incurred by people who get paid to ensure this doesn't happen, represents something other than a spectacular failure to do that job.

Your turn.
/quote]

Right since you feel your money is being wasted you may go out and employ a few new players. Try an ad in the Sindo. Or you can try increasing the pay of the players, since the idea that the fact the players are paid should dictate that they should play to your perceived standards.

That's a bit more civilised anyway. But complete nonsense. Are you reasoning that I'm entitled to express my opinion on the performance of professional players and management only if I'm paying their wages myself?

Go ahead and defend 60-0 - the biggest defeat ever suffered by Ireland either as amateurs or professionals - and how these lads earned their money yesterday. At least the captain had the good grace to express his embarrassment even if gung-ho supporters won't.

[trileacman]

Once again a few arseholes see a tanking scoreline and all of a sudden are rugby experts and feel obliged to stick the boot in.

Oh, you want to have a name-calling game. OK.

Once again an opinionated t**ser sees an opportunity to present himself as an expert, exasperated at the uninformed opinions of us mere rabble. That's even if it means defending the indefensible position that a loss of record proportions in the history of the game, incurred by people who get paid to ensure this doesn't happen, represents something other than a spectacular failure to do that job.

Your turn.
/quote]

Right since you feel your money is being wasted you may go out and employ a few new players. Try an ad in the Sindo. Or you can try increasing the pay of the players, since the idea that the fact the players are paid should dictate that they should play to your perceived standards.

That's a bit more civilised anyway. But complete nonsense. Are you reasoning that I'm entitled to express my opinion on the performance of professional players and management only if I'm paying their wages myself?

Go ahead and defend 60-0 - the biggest defeat ever suffered by Ireland either as amateurs or professionals - and how these lads earned their money yesterday. At least the captain had the good grace to express his embarrassment even if gung-ho supporters won't.

You are describing these players as pure mercenaries and your only consideration seems to be that these players were paid to play badly the last day rather than them playing badly. That is an unfair and untrue assessment. These players went to NZ because they want to play rugby, not for the smell of a euro.

[Hardy]

Once again a few arseholes see a tanking scoreline and all of a sudden are rugby experts and feel obliged to stick the boot in.

Oh, you want to have a name-calling game. OK.

Once again an opinionated t**ser sees an opportunity to present himself as an expert, exasperated at the uninformed opinions of us mere rabble. That's even if it means defending the indefensible position that a loss of record proportions in the history of the game, incurred by people who get paid to ensure this doesn't happen, represents something other than a spectacular failure to do that job.

Your turn.
/quote]

Right since you feel your money is being wasted you may go out and employ a few new players. Try an ad in the Sindo. Or you can try increasing the pay of the players, since the idea that the fact the players are paid should dictate that they should play to your perceived standards.

That's a bit more civilised anyway. But complete nonsense. Are you reasoning that I'm entitled to express my opinion on the performance of professional players and management only if I'm paying their wages myself?

Go ahead and defend 60-0 - the biggest defeat ever suffered by Ireland either as amateurs or professionals - and how these lads earned their money yesterday. At least the captain had the good grace to express his embarrassment even if gung-ho supporters won't.

You are describing these players as pure mercenaries and your only consideration seems to be that these players were paid to play badly the last day rather than them playing badly. That is an unfair and untrue assessment. These players went to NZ because they want to play rugby, not for the smell of a euro.

Where did I describe them as such? You're making that up. I'm saying they and the management failed to do the job they were paid for. As professionals, they have to accept that 60-0 is an unacceptable performance. I don't think that's an unreasonable statement. Do you think 60-0 is acceptable?

[Dinny Breen]

You are describing these players as pure mercenaries and your only consideration seems to be that these players were paid to play badly the last day rather than them playing badly. That is an unfair and untrue assessment. These players went to NZ because they want to play rugby, not for the smell of a euro.

How bloody naive is that statement highlighted. They were in NZ because the healthy contracts they are on dictates that is where they go, they are there because they are bloody well paid to be there. I didn't see the game but with Kidney as coach Ireland are a complete shambles, he should do the honourable thing and tender his resignation. Ireland are simply going backwards under his tenure.

Some stats doing the rounds.

2008-2009 – won 11 of 13 games (Including 3 vs. Canda(2) and USA)


2009-2010 – won 4 of 10 games (Including 1 vs. Fiji


2010-2011 – won 5 of 9 games (1v. Samoa)


2011-2012 – won 6 of 17 games (2 vs. Usa and Russia)

41% since 09 against all
37% against top opposition in the lifetime of his tenure
35% against all in 2011-2012 falling to 26% when you exclude Russia and the US
25% against top opposition since 09

[Capt Pat]

In that period we also won a grand slam and won a group at the world cup including beating a southern hemisphere team in a competitive game in the southern hemisphere. We were also unlucky in a number of those defeats to say the least notably against the All Blacks a week ago and Wales in the 6 nations.

There was a draw against France in Paris as well during the last six nations.

[Donnellys Hollow]

The problems go deeper than Kidney. If anything, provincial success gives a somewhat false picture of where Irish rugby stands. It's all well and good to say Leinster and now Ulster with Munster before them were regularly beating the top English and French teams in the ERC but that is not necessarily going to guarantee a good international team. The English and especially the French clubs place more stock in their domestic league than the provinces do in the Celtic League. Their pool of players is also spread over more teams.

The NIQs like Langford, Halstead, Jim Williams, Howlett, Elsom, Contepomi and Nacewa were hugely influential in the success of the provinces but many of these players hinder the development of young Irish talent. There are too many young lads plying their trade in the A teams for Leinster, Ulster and Munster. This is where Connacht could be utilised a lot more as a sort of a development team. It would benefit the young players to get regular competitive matches and the influx of talent would benefit Connacht.

We're too slow to introduce young talent because of the way provincial rugby is structured. Wales are blooding players at a very young age - look at North, Cuthbert, Halfpenny etc. Most of the Irish lads who are talked of as future internationals are older than them. Rhys Ruddock would be one exception who made his Irish debut two years ago but he has only featured very sparingly for Leinster since. Players in their early 20s need regular competitve matches to accelerate their development and this doesn't happen at the moment.

[Dinny Breen]

It's amazing that when Ireland won the grand slam it was down to our structures and now that we are pretty rubbish it's the provinces fault.

4 weeks ago Kidney told the Irish public that NZ was no place for experimentation and then put out a team which included 4 players (POM, DF, SZ and DT) who had 1 test start between them and untried combinations all over the pitch. During the first test it was pretty obvious both wingers were having a nightmare but with no Trimble to call upon, that was one example that had shown that he made a complete balls of the match squad selection. It's hard to see what direction we are taking under Kidney, he has Les Kiss and Mark Tainton doing the attack as well as defence and kicking and the result is our attack and defence has both suffered. The stats are damning and we are simply not progressing as a team, Ireland are going nowhere under Kidney, that much has been pretty obvious for the last 2 years.

[AZOffaly]

I think Kidney is similar to a lot of GAA coaches/managers. His impact is largely psychological, and when he comes through he gets a good spirit going, makes the team believe they are in with a right chance, and gets them to have a lash. When you add decent players to that you get Heineken Cups and Grand Slams, at least while the quest is a live one. However, I think he plateaus, and we saw in Munster that he is not a great tactical brain or even a visionary. He neglected the academy, which is only recovering now after McGahan put a lot of work into it, and when other teams matched Munster's passion (sorry Dinny), the paucity in ideas that is ingrained became obvious.

Kidney is a great lad to come in and get lads going, a lá Paidi. When that wears off, sometimes the emporer is clad by Mother Nature.

[Celt_Man]

Ireland move up one place to 7th in the rankings... WTF

[Hardy]

Kidney is a genius.

[Celt_Man]

Turns out you don't need to win game to move up the rankings...

As a Cavan man I vote this system should be used in the GAA...

Cavan would become a Top 12 team instantly in the football and take our place at the very top in the Hurling!!