The IRISH RUGBY thread

Eire90 · September 27, 2023, 10:35:47 AM

should they have done 3 teams qualify with group winners getting directly into the quarters it would extend the competition by a week tho. I think doing that would be better than expanding to 24 teams.

seafoid · September 27, 2023, 01:04:05 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awnadiqE-uI

David McKeown · September 27, 2023, 02:37:35 PM

RTE suggest if there's a three way tie then the lowest points difference is excluded and then head to head decides the other place but I don't think that's correct. I think it's points difference to decide top spot then head to head to separate second and third.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby-world-cup/2023/0927/1407583-pool-permutations-what-ireland-need-to-do-to-qualify/

The RTE way would be better for Ireland but as I say I don't think it's right.

weareros · September 27, 2023, 03:31:02 PM

The way I see it, if Ireland lose to Scotland without securing a bonus point, we are definitely out. As SA will be on 15, Scotland will be on a minimum of 14 with a win over Ireland, we'd be on 14 - and go out in a head to head. But if all 3 finished on 15, we'd be out too on head to head (as 1st indeed in points difference and you'd expect SA to do enough against Tonga to get the top spot).

JPGJOHNNYG · September 27, 2023, 04:00:03 PM

If they are all on 15 then Ireland are through the points difference should be far better than Scotland'sand will be similar to South Africa's Fingers crossed they get off to a strong start and that will be the end of it.

gallsman · September 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PM

If all three end up on the same points, points difference is used to decide the group winner. H2H is then used to decide 2nd and 3rd between the other two.

A crazy way of doing things but that's how it is.

David McKeown · September 27, 2023, 04:53:32 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PMIf all three end up on the same points, points difference is used to decide the group winner. H2H is then used to decide 2nd and 3rd between the other two.

A crazy way of doing things but that's how it is.

Yeah that's how I understand the tiebreakers work but RTE don't seem to agree

Nanderson · September 27, 2023, 08:30:04 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 27, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PMIf all three end up on the same points, points difference is used to decide the group winner. H2H is then used to decide 2nd and 3rd between the other two.

A crazy way of doing things but that's how it is.

Yeah that's how I understand the tiebreakers work but RTE don't seem to agree

The ranking of tied teams in the pool stage is determined as follows:
The winner of the Match in which the two tied Teams have played each other shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has the best difference between points scored for and points scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has the best difference between tries scored for and tries scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has scored most points in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has scored most tries in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.

Should the tie be unresolved at the conclusion of steps 1 through 5, the rankings as per the updated. Official World Rugby World Rankings on October 9, 2023 will determine the higher ranked Team. See the official World Rugby Rankings.

For clarification, in the case of a tie between three or more Teams at the end of the pool phase, once the highest ranked Team has been determined following the above criteria, to determine the next higher ranked Team the process would repeat, starting at the first criterion.

Wildweasel74 · September 27, 2023, 09:41:12 PM

If Ireland have amy intentions of winning a world cup, they go out and put Scotland to the sword in no u certain terms the way South Africa or the All - Black's would.

LeoMc · September 27, 2023, 11:06:22 PM

Quote from: Nanderson on September 27, 2023, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on September 27, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PMIf all three end up on the same points, points difference is used to decide the group winner. H2H is then used to decide 2nd and 3rd between the other two.

A crazy way of doing things but that's how it is.

Yeah that's how I understand the tiebreakers work but RTE don't seem to agree
The ranking of tied teams in the pool stage is determined as follows:
The winner of the Match in which the two tied Teams have played each other shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has the best difference between points scored for and points scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has the best difference between tries scored for and tries scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has scored most points in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
The Team which has scored most tries in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.

Should the tie be unresolved at the conclusion of steps 1 through 5, the rankings as per the updated. Official World Rugby World Rankings on October 9, 2023 will determine the higher ranked Team. See the official World Rugby Rankings.

For clarification, in the case of a tie between three or more Teams at the end of the pool phase, once the highest ranked Team has been determined following the above criteria, to determine the next higher ranked Team the process would repeat, starting at the first criterion.

From this, assuming Scotland beat Ireland all 3 are level after the first criterion and score difference decides first place, then it goes back to the result between the other 2, so you are both right and RTE is wrong.

seafoid · September 28, 2023, 12:36:08 AM

If Ireland lose to Scotland do they not have to play Kerry in a preliminary quarter final the following Tuesday in le Velodome Fitzgeralde in Strasbourg ?

seafoid · September 28, 2023, 06:04:33 AM

https://youtu.be/ixwLbpK8pFE

johnnycool · September 28, 2023, 08:08:35 AM

IRELAND 3 3 0 0 154 32 +122 21 2 14
SOUTH AFRICA 3 2 0 1 102 16 +86 15 2 10
SCOTLAND 2 1 0 1 48 35 +13 7 1 5

SA will finish with 15 points after this weekend and Scotland will in all likeliness be on 10 going into the last game vrs Ireland.

These are the games that have historically been the games that Ireland have shít the nest in at World Cups and Scotland are not a bad team at all.

Milltown Row2 · September 28, 2023, 08:51:33 AM

If they don't beat Scotland then they have no business being talked about as challengers, SA beat Scotland well enough, that should be the line of form. If you are not performing to that then the manager has not selected the best team or the team is not motivated enough to win, or just lack serious confidence, that is something the management needs sorting.

gallsman · September 28, 2023, 08:58:28 AM

Tbh, I can't see any scenario in which we don't beat Scotland with a winning BP. Two weeks off and Farrell might make a couple of changes but it'll be 80/90% a first choice team.

The whole spiel about the top 5 teams in the world being on one side of the draw has kind of missed the fact that Scotland are much closer to the 4/5 teams below them than the 4 above them.

If Ireland can't close out a group like this with the form they're in then, frankly, we don't have any business in a QF against NZ or France, regardless of the result against the Springboks.