China Coronavirus

[BennyCake]

Come on man,  that's like the "vaccinated = good, unvaccinated =  bad"

Its not a narrative.

Only dumb f*kkers who aren't a fraction as smart as they think they are think its some kind of narrative or sleight of hand by new world order or similar bull.

Vaccinated is good.
Unvaccinated is both stupid and selfish in the extreme.

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

[PadraicHenryPearse]

who believes that? another false narrative...

[RadioGAAGAA]

 
         However i do think the effectiveness of the vaccines were/are wildly overplayed by both the pharma companies and governments. Many people hold that view. Some here have produced statistics or articles to back that up. Time will untimately tell.

The initial studies (and effectiveness figures) were for the original virus (and perhaps a one or two widespread early variants). Delta largely kicked the stopping of transmission to the kerb [vaccines were reducing transmission by useful amounts for original/early variants].

            Nearly all of the restrictions/measures introduced i.e. covid passport, employment in healthcate, lockdown for non vaccinated, withholding healthcare for non vacc and ultimately mandatory vaccinations are based on the crucial assumption that covid vaccines are as effective as the pharma manufacturers initially stated and are the only game in town to end this pandemic or to mitigate the worst effects and ease the burden on the health care systems.
         Governments have bought into this and have had to then introduce measures to ensure vaccination uptake.

Right now, they are the only game in town.

There are treatments being developed. Mileage may vary on effectiveness - but in a troublesome development for the tinfoil hat wearing clowns, these treatments are also largely under the auspices of.... big pharma.

But, you can expect vaccines to be tweaked to better target delta and hopefully bring efficacy back to what it was pre-delta.

The idea that healthcare could be withheld from some groups is also terryfying for me.

Some groups are already withholding healthcare from others by their refusal to take the prescribed pro-active treatment.

Do the tinfoil hat brigade not realise that for every one of those dumb f*ks needlessly in hospital, that is a bed for someone that would need it for other reasons (say elective surgery at best, cancer care at worst).

It would be interesting to see if there was a poll on here asking who woild be in favour of  mandatory vaccination in the workplace or even mandatory vaccination of the entire population..
       

I would absolutely be in favour of either. Or if that's not an option, if people want to opt out of public healthcare measures (i.e. vaccines), then they opt out of public healthcare for covid full stop.

'cos right now, their stupidity is without recourse until they are occupying/dying in a hospital bed that someone else could use.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

[BennyCake]

RadioGaaGaa:

I would absolutely be in favour of either. Or if that's not an option, if people want to opt out of public healthcare measures (i.e. vaccines), then they opt out of public healthcare for covid full stop.

'cos right now, their stupidity is without recourse until they are occupying/dying in a hospital bed that someone else could use.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know the dangers of smoking, drinking, eating unhealthy food, playing sports, driving vehicles, doing diy - should we also refuse medical treatment to people who participate in these?

I'd be fairly sure everyone on here participates in a  number of these. And their families. So if One of us fell off a ladder, sustained an injury playing Hurling or needed medical attention for a lung/liver problem... it's fine to not let them  into the hospital?

[BennyCake]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

[armaghniac]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

[From the Bunker]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

[armaghniac]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Like the people driving about who have no licence, they can do what society requires of them to do and then there is no need to be scared.

[Milltown Row2]

If this illness attack our youth, kids or grandkids, would we encourage them or our age group to do what's best?

Why do we allow our kids to be vaccinated against other illnesses?

Or will it be that we are happier to get vaccinated after a period of time?

Like I said, I'm purely doing it for personal reasons, I've not influenced my grown up children, they've done it for their own reasons. Don't influence anyone please, let them get on with it whatever their call is.

[From the Bunker]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Like the people driving about who have no licence, they can do what society requires of them to do and then there is no need to be scared.

You don't get the full picture with that comparison. 

[grounded]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

[BennyCake]

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control

[armaghniac]

They want division. They want control

No, they want the hospitals to be available for unavoidable illness.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-wage-subsidy-levels-may-be-maintained-as-hospitality-rocked-by-cancellations-1.4734904Ministers are expected to consider retaining higher rates of financial supports for businesses at a special meeting today, in light of the deteriorating Covid-19 situation.

The Cabinet subcommittee on economics will receive an update on financial supports amid widespread infections across the State and new restrictions being imposed on businesses, particularly in the hospitality sector.