Joe Duffy - Liveline

[Tres Bien]

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

[trueblue1234]

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?

[Tres Bien]

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?

Extremely remote I'd imagine. More remote than from Covid I'd say. I've no issue acknowledging that.

But not getting a vaccine doesn't mean you will get Covid, not getting the vaccine doesn't mean you don't already have immunity from it, it doesn't mean the immunity you get from the vaccine is better than what you have already have. So many variables, so many unknown.

It's one shade of remoteness vs another shade of remoteness. I've given the vaccine a lot of thought, for someone in my position I just don't see any real upside to it, the benefit is utterly negligible in my view. I've looked at it pragmatically and logically so I respect people who have came to their conclusions by doing the same as me if it led to a different outcome. If you're happy to get the vaccine, it's your choice and I'm not going to tell you did right or wrong. I just wish there was a respect and some people didn't deal in false narratives and propaganda.

[Snapchap]

Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.

So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.

You don't do irony, do you? Just about average scientist on the planet has tested the premise that the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine and recommend we all take it, yet along comes you to tell us that you know better.

Nope. You don't do irony.

Science is conflicted on a lot of things, including Covid, including vaccines.

You seem to be selectively ignoring deaths associated with the vaccine, serious side effects associated with the vaccines, medical authorities in certain countries halting certain vaccines, suspending certain vaccines for use with particular age categories due to side effects associated with them that caused death and serious illness.

Now, why are you dealing in misinformation here? These are established facts, I don't deny the chances of this are extremely remote but we are talking about varying degrees of remoteness. The data clearly backs up that Covid is of minimal threat to fit and healthy u40s with no underlying medical conditions. If you want to have an argument over remoteness or probabilities you can't just completely dismiss one side of the story because it undermines your illogical position.

The data also clearly shows that those who don't get the vaccine are up to two thirds more likely to transmit covid to someone else. That someone else might not be so lucky to be in the "sure as long as I'm OK" age bracket. To put it another way, of those who do get covid and get seriously ill or die, they are overwhelmingly more likely to have caught it from an unvaccinated person. Like you.



Yet AGAIN though, you don't seem to want to talk about transmission rates. Must be that guilty conscience.

[trueblue1234]

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?

Extremely remote I'd imagine. More remote than from Covid I'd say. I've no issue acknowledging that.

But not getting a vaccine doesn't mean you will get Covid, not getting the vaccine doesn't mean you don't already have immunity from it, it doesn't mean the immunity you get from the vaccine is better than what you have already have. So many variables, so many unknown.

It's one shade of remoteness vs another shade of remoteness. I've given the vaccine a lot of thought, for someone in my position I just don't see any real upside to it, the benefit is utterly negligible in my view. I've looked at it pragmatically and logically so I respect people who have came to their conclusions by doing the same as me if it led to a different outcome. If you're happy to get the vaccine, it's your choice and I'm not going to tell you did right or wrong. I just wish there was a respect and some people didn't deal in false narratives and propaganda.

I know you think this. As I said before I think you over estimate your intelligence. I'm not going to force you to take the vaccine.

[armaghniac]

Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.

[trueblue1234]

Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.

Is the vaccinated rate as high as that? I didn't think so.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

91% over 18 double vaccinated

[Franko]

Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.

So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.

Some figures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/

67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.

You do realise 67% is exectively 2:1 unvaccinated to vaccinated not 18:1?

Yes?

So now do you see how ridiculous the assertion that you are 18x more likely to end up in hospital if you're unvaccinated is?

This is definitely Angelo.  Always had bother with the old sums that lad.

[Tres Bien]

Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.

Whereas you'd believe that fully, I'd question that. It doesn't add up when you look at death statistics in the north.

People under 40 are not dying in any number up north and they are highest proportion of unvaccinated by a huge percentage. They are the highest proportion of positive cases. They account for over 50% of cases in the past 6/7 weeks yet only account for 0.8% of deaths.

u40s - over 50% of cases, only 0.8% of deaths
over 40s - under 50% of cases 99.2% of deaths

u40s - the least vaccinated cohort
over 40s - the highest vaccinated cohort

Yet we are meant to believe that 67% of people in ICU are unvaccinated? Seems incredible. Do we have a huge amount of unvaccinated over 80s or something?

So how does it stack up that the highest vaccinated groupings are still the ones getting severely ill and dying from Covid, while the unvaccinated are not. That's why these claims simply crumble when scrutinised. Here's a snapshot for you.


This is from the 27th August:





So at the 27th August we had 111k~ positive cases in the u40 category. 11 deaths in the u40 category.

Up until yesterday





On 10th Oct we have 146k~ positive cases in the u40 category, 13 deaths. No further deaths in the 0-19 category in 22k further positive cases. 2 deaths in the 20-39 category in 13k additional cases.

On the other hand we have 25 additional deaths in the 40-59 grouping in 13k~ additional cases and additional 222 deaths of people over the age of 60 in under 13k~ additional cases. It's clear the people getting ill and dying from Covid are those who are elderly or in bad health - to spin it as a vaccination issue does not stand up to the data. So if you're coming on here regurgitating lines you heard that fail any sort of probing of the data, then it merely serves to make you look extremely naive.

The cohort with the highest vaccination rates and least positive cases over 60s saw around 10k cases and over 200 deaths. The cohort with the smallest vaccination rate saw 24k cases and 2 deaths. And you're telling us you're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you're unvaccinated? Incredible. You're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you are elderly, have an underlying health condition or are in poor health. These are the people who need to get vaccinated and these are the people who need to take the necessary precautions and those who interact with them need to do so.

What's more selfish?

A vaccinated healthcare worker heading over to England at the weekened to go out on a weekend in Liverpool in packed pubs or an unvaccinated healthcare worker who limits her social contacts? Who poses the greatest threat to contraction and transmission of the virus?

Some of you chaps seem utterly incapable of analysing what you are being told and what you are regurgitating.

[Eire90]

will joe be talking about the disgraceful scenes in wicklow at the weekend

[trueblue1234]

Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.

Whereas you'd believe that fully, I'd question that. It doesn't add up when you look at death statistics in the north.

People under 40 are not dying in any number up north and they are highest proportion of unvaccinated by a huge percentage. They are the highest proportion of positive cases. They account for over 50% of cases in the past 6/7 weeks yet only account for 0.8% of deaths.

u40s - over 50% of cases, only 0.8% of deaths
over 40s - under 50% of cases 99.2% of deaths

u40s - the least vaccinated cohort
over 40s - the highest vaccinated cohort

Yet we are meant to believe that 67% of people in ICU are unvaccinated? Seems incredible. Do we have a huge amount of unvaccinated over 80s or something?

So how does it stack up that the highest vaccinated groupings are still the ones getting severely ill and dying from Covid, while the unvaccinated are not. That's why these claims simply crumble when scrutinised. Here's a snapshot for you.


This is from the 27th August:





So at the 27th August we had 111k~ positive cases in the u40 category. 11 deaths in the u40 category.

Up until yesterday





On 10th Oct we have 146k~ positive cases in the u40 category, 13 deaths. No further deaths in the 0-19 category in 22k further positive cases. 2 deaths in the 20-39 category in 13k additional cases.

On the other hand we have 25 additional deaths in the 40-59 grouping in 13k~ additional cases and additional 222 deaths of people over the age of 60 in under 13k~ additional cases. It's clear the people getting ill and dying from Covid are those who are elderly or in bad health - to spin it as a vaccination issue does not stand up to the data. So if you're coming on here regurgitating lines you heard that fail any sort of probing of the data, then it merely serves to make you look extremely naive.

The cohort with the highest vaccination rates and least positive cases over 60s saw around 10k cases and over 200 deaths. The cohort with the smallest vaccination rate saw 24k cases and 2 deaths. And you're telling us you're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you're unvaccinated? Incredible. You're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you are elderly, have an underlying health condition or are in poor health. These are the people who need to get vaccinated and these are the people who need to take the necessary precautions and those who interact with them need to do so.

What's more selfish?

A vaccinated healthcare worker heading over to England at the weekened to go out on a weekend in Liverpool in packed pubs or an unvaccinated healthcare worker who limits her social contacts? Who poses the greatest threat to contraction and transmission of the virus?

Some of you chaps seem utterly incapable of analysing what you are being told and what you are regurgitating.

Being in ICU does not mean you die. Why are you flip flopping from numbers in ICU who are impacting health service capabilities to Covid deaths? Your trying to muddy the water enough. The vaccinated % of the icu patients are there, if you've hard proof this is incorrect, I'll listen. If you want to argue for the sake of it that that figure is wrong. Knock yourself out as I can't be bothered. But it only adds to my opinion that you have an over inflated opinion of your own intelligence.

[armaghniac]

I think an argument based on the idea that more old people die than young people is not telling us anything we don't know.
The issue is that whatever age you are, you are more likely to be hospitalised, go into ICU, or die, if you are not vaccinated. The health services are under pressure in early October, not normally a peak for them and they would be much less under pressure if everyone acted responsibly and got vaccinated.

[Rossfan]

Unfortunately there are always ignorant morons........

[From the Bunker]