New Management, somewhat new backroom, same team that got to 2 successive finals and lost out narrowly last year in a semi.
What are the expectations this year from the fans for the team and management? Is it All Ireland or bust? Or would a Connacht title retention and getting to the semi-finals be adequate for ratifying the new managements capabilities?
Thoughts?
id have thought nothing more than a Connaught final win would do. An all Ireland is a step to far, for sure so maybe a national league either. They have been getting to semi finals thus last few years but that was under horan. Don't think that the new management are going to be fit to add that bit extra. The players just are not there/good enough. A real good manager can take you that bit extra. eg harte,mcguinness. A pity that they didn't go for Mcstay. When did they last win a league out of curiosity.
Quote from: redzone on February 16, 2015, 06:42:14 PM
id have thought nothing more than a Connaught final win would do. An all Ireland is a step to far, for sure so maybe a national league either. They have been getting to semi finals thus last few years but that was under horan. Don't think that the new management are going to be fit to add that bit extra. The players just are not there/good enough. A real good manager can take you that bit extra. eg harte,mcguinness. A pity that they didn't go for Mcstay. When did they last win a league out of curiosity.
2001 with Pat Holmes. Championship performances were poor though.
Losing in Connacht will be seen as a major failure.
Losing a 1/4 final would be seen as a failure, depending on the opposition and performance etc.
Losing a 1/2 final would be seen as a step back, against depending on performance & opposition etc.
Losing another final would be a killer all round, but would hardly be seen as a failure for the new management, with the above caveats.
To retain the Nestor cup for the fifth year in a row would satisfy me but I do think it will be a struggle.
I don't believe all is as rosy as we are led to believe , time will tell.
Supporters dreaming of a repeat of last three years effort are not being realistic imo. I do hope I'm wrong and am back on this thread next sept looking to swap a hogan for hill 16 so I can wave my flag in peace.
Retaining D1 status, winning Connacht and reaching but not getting hammered by Dublin in a SF would be a reasonable year esp if one or two new starters / potential starters were added to the squad
Hard to quantify what would be a successful year or not.
We wouldn t want to go and get ourselves relegated but it s all about the championship imo.
If we manage to win in Salthill expectations and confidence would soar again and we d be very hard to stop in Connacht after. Lose in Galway and it would be sticky enough to survive until August.
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 07:22:49 PM
Retaining D1 status, winning Connacht and reaching but not getting hammered by Dublin in a SF would be a reasonable year esp if one or two new starters / potential starters were added to the squ
If we were to get to a semi-final, I d be hopeful of pulling it off and so would you macdanger2 ;)
Tbh I think a lot depends on management. These guys wanted it and they simply have to deliver now. It remains to be seen of course if they are up to it.
Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 07:22:49 PM
Retaining D1 status, winning Connacht and reaching but not getting hammered by Dublin in a SF would be a reasonable year esp if one or two new starters / potential starters were added to the squ
If we were to get to a semi-final, I d be hopeful of pulling it off and so would you macdanger2 ;)
Tbh I think a lot depends on management. These guys wanted it and they simply have to deliver now. It remains to be seen of course if they are up to it.
I would surely but right now in early Feb, I'd be happy just to get there
A bit off-thread but Mayo played Clare yesterday in Kinvara.
From what I can glean from other fora this is the team that played.
O'Malley, D McHugh, G Cafferkey, T Cunniffe, S Duffy, C Crowe, D Drake, G Duffy, A Corduff, C O Shea, J Gibbons, N Douglas, E Varley, M Forde, D Coen. 2nd half C Boyle, K Keane, A Dillon, D Kirby, M Sweeney.
Narrow win again another blanket team.
Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 09:00:11 PM
A bit off-thread but Mayo played Clare yesterday in Kinvara.
From what I can glean from other fora this is the team that played.
O'Malley, D McHugh, G Cafferkey, T Cunniffe, S Duffy, C Crowe, D Drake, G Duffy, A Corduff, C O Shea, J Gibbons, N Douglas, E Varley, M Forde, D Coen. 2nd half C Boyle, K Keane, A Dillon, D Kirby, M Sweeney.
Narrow win again another blanket team.
Kirby must be fit again. Might be of great use at FF.
Still no sign of Andy or Tom Parsons. Good to see Cuniffe back. And of course Gavin Duffy finally makes his appearance - and look good from what I hear. Anybody speculate what 30 man panel will look like?!
According to Mayo News, Andy and Tom Parsons may be available for Monaghan. Chris Barrett will not. Apart from Chris that would leave us full strength. I assume we ll have to go strongest side available but what would that be? Does Vaughan continue in midfield or does Tom or Gibbons come in?
Pleased the management are giving runs to everybody, less so with the fact that they apparently went around the house again when faced with Clare's blanket defence... Nothing against Clare, but we should have known every team will go blanket against us this year.
As for the title of the thread, a good season is sustaining competitiveness. That may not win many trophies, but it seems to me that a lot of people are resigned to having 4 tough seasons over the past 4 years taking a lot out of the players physically.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 08:45:45 PM
Pleased the management are giving runs to everybody, less so with the fact that they apparently went around the house again when faced with Clare's blanket defence... Nothing against Clare, but we should have known every team will go blanket against us this year.
As for the title of the thread, a good season is sustaining competitiveness. That may not win many trophies, but it seems to me that a lot of people are resigned to having 4 tough seasons over the past 4 years taking a lot out of the players physically.
I dunno about those being tough seasons Farr. Surely they are the type of season a player would want. I d say a tough season is playing for likes of Offaly right now - a once great footballing county struggling badly.
It s also more likely these players will have the advantage of years of conditioning. Ye can t buy that or the experience either - although not all the experiences have been rosy. But let's not forget that these players have had more good days than bad and probably have a high degree of self esteem. I very much doubt they have the loser mentality that many journalists and neutral like to label them with. These guys expect to win the big games. I don t think that will change this year. Also, this group has been wisely managed and trained. They have loads of recovery and athletes of this calibre thrive on training provided they are injury free. We were unlucky with big injuries that cost us big time, but the injuries were treated very professionally. Compare the care taken with Cillian and AOS in Limerick with the appalling treatment of George North 2 weeks ago. You re spot on about the competitiveness.
Management has a huge role to play in continuing to empower this group and giving them every chance to be as good as they can be/have been.
Nightmare season = Beaten by Galway and go down without a fight in the qualifiers
Bad season = Beaten by a team using a balnket and us having no gameplan to counter it
Good season =Good performance in the All Ireland Semi Final even if its in defeat by Dublin
Dream season = SAM
So, which is it going to be Dan?
Quote from: moysider on February 18, 2015, 12:06:45 AM
So, which is it going to be Dan?
I hope im wrong here but its not going to be pretty.Even if we get out of Connacht which will be a big ask the cat is out of the bag on how to beat us and the new management dosent fill me with confidence.
Quote from: mayoman dan on February 18, 2015, 12:13:37 AM
Quote from: moysider on February 18, 2015, 12:06:45 AM
So, which is it going to be Dan?
I hope im wrong here but its not going to be pretty.Even if we get out of Connacht which will be a big ask the cat is out of the bag on how to beat us and the new management dosent fill me with confidence.
Surely they cant be that blind to whats happening on the pitch? Does anyone else think they might be keeping something in reserve for when we need it later in the year?
An All Ireland
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 30, 2015, 12:38:26 PM
An All Ireland
Simply not going to happen if we keep conceding goals at our current rate.We have the players no doubt but tactical accumen will again be our downfall.Anyone that thinks there is a great defensive plan to be unleashed as and when we need it is going to be dissapointed.I hope to God im proven wrong but looking at Castlebar in the all ireland club final would suggest otherwise.Diarmuid Connolly was given free reign to do as he pleased and the line (Pateen) ether didnt see it or didnt respond and i dont know which is worse.Its going to be another glorious failure
Quote from: mayoman dan on July 30, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 30, 2015, 12:38:26 PM
An All Ireland
Simply not going to happen if we keep conceding goals at our current rate.We have the players no doubt but tactical accumen will again be our downfall.Anyone that thinks there is a great defensive plan to be unleashed as and when we need it is going to be dissapointed.I hope to God im proven wrong but looking at Castlebar in the all ireland club final would suggest otherwise.Diarmuid Connolly was given free reign to do as he pleased and the line (Pateen) ether didnt see it or didnt respond and i dont know which is worse.Its going to be another glorious failure
I've tried to get some opinions going on this but not many takers. The thing is though while it is easy to see where the problem is, it is another matter to resolve it.
I ll give Pateen and Noel some slack on this. If we keep playing the way we do we will continue to leak goals. We don't have the personnel in last line of defence to survive in the way we are set up. We have gone a bit more covering back, but back 3 still brittle and flaky.
To protect that last line and not concede those goals would need to go ultra defensive. Complete sea change where you concede kick-outs and drop the high press and basically become another counter-attacking team.
Time is ticking. Horan went close with his vision of the game (and it is a very good one) but got done by more practical attritional approaches and a bit of dodgy referring to boot.
Look I dunno. But there are a lot of Mayo posters on here but apart from a bit of slagging with the Rossies, they have little to say recently. I might be wrong but I suspect they think that Mayo can do it with just good players. Maybe H&C are hoping that can happen too. That's not going to happen. But it looks like Mayo supporters in general are happy enough with 'the good players should be able to win approach'. TBH I like what I ve seen from H&C teams so far. A few issues during the league but they were important learning as well.
As far as the great defensive plan goes. Not rocket science. Do what Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan do. Kerry last year and Dublin this year have unveiled their own versions of defensive football. Ours is still a bit light-weight. Ironically we have the best squad to play that game better than anybody but remains to be seen if we are willing to buy into it.
..
A good season is beating Kerry or Dublin!
A great season is hopefully beating them both with silverware attached!
Re defensive systems, I think H&C are playing slightly more defensive than we did last year. I'd like to see them play just a tad more defensive without going the whole hog as you suggest above Moy. I'd be talking about leaving one of McLoughlin / DOC / SOS / Parsons in front of the FB line at all times to prevent goals - in the two AIFs, we've lost them because we conceded two goals in each
I think that it is possible for Mayo to win an AI without going completely blanket defense although I wouldn't blame H&C if they decide to change tack next year and follow the pack.
Quote from: moysider on July 31, 2015, 12:43:26 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on July 30, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 30, 2015, 12:38:26 PM
An All Ireland
Simply not going to happen if we keep conceding goals at our current rate.We have the players no doubt but tactical accumen will again be our downfall.Anyone that thinks there is a great defensive plan to be unleashed as and when we need it is going to be dissapointed.I hope to God im proven wrong but looking at Castlebar in the all ireland club final would suggest otherwise.Diarmuid Connolly was given free reign to do as he pleased and the line (Pateen) ether didnt see it or didnt respond and i dont know which is worse.Its going to be another glorious failure
I've tried to get some opinions going on this but not many takers. The thing is though while it is easy to see where the problem is, it is another matter to resolve it.
I ll give Pateen and Noel some slack on this. If we keep playing the way we do we will continue to leak goals. We don't have the personnel in last line of defence to survive in the way we are set up. We have gone a bit more covering back, but back 3 still brittle and flaky.
To protect that last line and not concede those goals would need to go ultra defensive. Complete sea change where you concede kick-outs and drop the high press and basically become another counter-attacking team.
Time is ticking. Horan went close with his vision of the game (and it is a very good one) but got done by more practical attritional approaches and a bit of dodgy referring to boot.
Look I dunno. But there are a lot of Mayo posters on here but apart from a bit of slagging with the Rossies, they have little to say recently. I might be wrong but I suspect they think that Mayo can do it with just good players. Maybe H&C are hoping that can happen too. That's not going to happen. But it looks like Mayo supporters in general are happy enough with 'the good players should be able to win approach'. TBH I like what I ve seen from H&C teams so far. A few issues during the league but they were important learning as well.
As far as the great defensive plan goes. Not rocket science. Do what Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan do. Kerry last year and Dublin this year have unveiled their own versions of defensive football. Ours is still a bit light-weight. Ironically we have the best squad to play that game better than anybody but remains to be seen if we are willing to buy into it.
..
I dont think we do Moy. Name Higgins in the forwards and use him as an extra defender.Seamus O Se and Mc Loughlin to play very deep almost between the full and half back lines.As much as i dont like doing it i would instruct Keegan and Boyle to hold their positions and not go rampaging forward at least not for the first 50 mins of the game anyway.I would still let Vaughan get up and down the field.Higgins simply has to be deployed as a sweeper or spare man at the back he is the only viable candidate.He is quick over the first few yards he reads the game very well and he is an excellent distributor of the ball.If the game is getting away from us round the 55 minute mark i would let the half backs and Mc Loughlin start getting further forward to force the issue
Quote from: mayoman dan on July 31, 2015, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 31, 2015, 12:43:26 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on July 30, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 30, 2015, 12:38:26 PM
An All Ireland
Simply not going to happen if we keep conceding goals at our current rate.We have the players no doubt but tactical accumen will again be our downfall.Anyone that thinks there is a great defensive plan to be unleashed as and when we need it is going to be dissapointed.I hope to God im proven wrong but looking at Castlebar in the all ireland club final would suggest otherwise.Diarmuid Connolly was given free reign to do as he pleased and the line (Pateen) ether didnt see it or didnt respond and i dont know which is worse.Its going to be another glorious failure
I've tried to get some opinions going on this but not many takers. The thing is though while it is easy to see where the problem is, it is another matter to resolve it.
I ll give Pateen and Noel some slack on this. If we keep playing the way we do we will continue to leak goals. We don't have the personnel in last line of defence to survive in the way we are set up. We have gone a bit more covering back, but back 3 still brittle and flaky.
To protect that last line and not concede those goals would need to go ultra defensive. Complete sea change where you concede kick-outs and drop the high press and basically become another counter-attacking team.
Time is ticking. Horan went close with his vision of the game (and it is a very good one) but got done by more practical attritional approaches and a bit of dodgy referring to boot.
Look I dunno. But there are a lot of Mayo posters on here but apart from a bit of slagging with the Rossies, they have little to say recently. I might be wrong but I suspect they think that Mayo can do it with just good players. Maybe H&C are hoping that can happen too. That's not going to happen. But it looks like Mayo supporters in general are happy enough with 'the good players should be able to win approach'. TBH I like what I ve seen from H&C teams so far. A few issues during the league but they were important learning as well.
As far as the great defensive plan goes. Not rocket science. Do what Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan do. Kerry last year and Dublin this year have unveiled their own versions of defensive football. Ours is still a bit light-weight. Ironically we have the best squad to play that game better than anybody but remains to be seen if we are willing to buy into it.
..
I dont think we do Moy. Name Higgins in the forwards and use him as an extra defender.Seamus O Se and Mc Loughlin to play very deep almost between the full and half back lines.As much as i dont like doing it i would instruct Keegan and Boyle to hold their positions and not go rampaging forward at least not for the first 50 mins of the game anyway.I would still let Vaughan get up and down the field.Higgins simply has to be deployed as a sweeper or spare man at the back he is the only viable candidate.He is quick over the first few yards he reads the game very well and he is an excellent distributor of the ball.If the game is getting away from us round the 55 minute mark i would let the half backs and Mc Loughlin start getting further forward to force the issue
That sounds pretty ultra dan :)
I would encourage Keegan and Boyle to counter-attack.
From here on in its about beating the blanket and whatever that blanket may be including a Mayo blanket. Don't forget that this team have been conditioned and primed to play in a specific attacking way for 4 years and should have won at least one of those finals in 2013. Anyway this attacking strategy is not going to be just dumped and a new system implemented in 1 single season. A partial blanket attempt may be introduced.
Check out the other top 5/6 teams.
Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal already have been conditioned to play blanket for the past few years and have had the time to perfect it.
Kerry began it last year and played a somewhat defensive counter attacking game against Mayo in the semi final. And they certainly adopted that same approach with Donegal in the final . Look at Kerry again this year against Cork. They didn't really employ a blanket the first day and were fortunate to not get caught out. But they did employ a sweeper the second and used it again the 1/4 final against Kildare. They allied that with very fast ball into fast forwards who are able to physically take on and beat their man. And I would assume this is their plan going forward.
Everyone is also talking about Dublin being more defensive. But the bottom line here is that they too have not been tested yet. So it's hard to say how good their "new" one is.
So come back to discuss Mayo. Have they been able to adjust in one season to employ a defensive system? I doubt it.
But that is not this managements fault as again it come back to changing a complete team mindset.
An all Ireland
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 10, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
An bhfuil tú off do rocker!!
Quote from: PW Nally on September 11, 2015, 06:59:32 AM
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 10, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
An bhfuil tú off do rocker!!
Bhí mè glan as mo mheabhair an seachtain seo chaite ach níl mè ro-dhona anois, buìochas le dia.
Tà a fhios agat fèin nach mbeidh bannisteoir nua again an bhliain seo chugainn. Is dóigh liom gur mbeadh James Horan ar ais an bhliain ina dhiaidh sin. An t-aon rud atà eagla orm faoi ná gur mbeadh Donnie Buckley linn an bhliain seo chugainn. Caithfidh an mbord gach uile rud a dheanamh chun an fear sin a choinnèail.
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 11, 2015, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: PW Nally on September 11, 2015, 06:59:32 AM
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 10, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
An bhfuil tú off do rocker!!
Bhí mè glan as mo mheabhair an seachtain seo chaite ach níl mè ro-dhona anois, buìochas le dia.
Tà a fhios agat fèin nach mbeidh bannisteoir nua again an bhliain seo chugainn. Is dóigh liom gur mbeadh James Horan ar ais an bhliain ina dhiaidh sin. An t-aon rud atà eagla orm faoi ná gur mbeadh Donnie Buckley linn an bhliain seo chugainn. Caithfidh an mbord gach uile rud a dheanamh chun an fear sin a choinnèail.
Togha fir Bod! Bhíomar uilig scaipeadh le cúpla lá anuas, cén chaoi feadach muid a bheidh na mhalairt. Tá orainn Buckley coinneál sa champa ach ní bhéinn ró cinnte faoi cúpla duine eile!! Fir a bhfuil anna chuid déanta acubh ar son an chontae ach ní seo an t-am le bheidh breannadh siar!
Ní thagann dream imreoirí mar seo thart ró mhinic 's fearr chuile deis a thabhairt dóibh nó beidheamar uilig í dteach mór na fulaingt arís gan cupán deas airgead le ól as!!
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 10, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
Why do we have to stick with them? What have they done to deserve another year?
Quote from: PW Nally on September 11, 2015, 01:40:31 PM
Togha fir Bod!
That's an interesting translation in Google !
Quote from: mayoman dan on September 11, 2015, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: Bod Mor on September 10, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
If somebody was to tell me this time last year that Mayo would still be playing football in September 2015 I would be absolutely over the moon.
There's no doubt about it that we need to stick with Holmes and Connelly. This is the most talented set of Mayo footballers I've seen in my lifetime anyway. Some of them aren't getting any younger but we have found some real gems in Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor. Add to that the likes of Stephen Coen, Michael Hall, Evan Regan and David Drake. People have mentioned Conor Loftus too. These lads need to be given as much game time as possible in the league next year, especially Regan. I know it's been talked to death but what else can we do but look ahead to 2016.
I have no doubt that these lads have already forgotten about last Saturday and are already mad to get back playing football again.
Why do we have to stick with them? What have they done to deserve another year?
We have reached a sort of impasse. Time line was as follows;
2011 reached AI semi final. Beat AI Champions Cork. Beaten well by Kerry. But were in game until midway through 2nd half. Season seen as progress.
2012 Beat Dublin in AI semi final. Lose to Donegal in final. Season seen as progress.
2013 Beat everybody well on the way to final. Lose by a point to Dublin. Season seen as break even.
2014 Scrape past a declining Cork. Hold Kerry in semi to 2 games and extra time before losing. Season seen as break even.
2015 Hold Dublin in semi to 2 games before losing. Season seen as break even.
2016 Roscommon and Galway at home should we meet either in Connacht. On the other side of the draw from Dublin and Kerry should they win their provinces. That said our Ulster kin will be looking at us as being on the easier side of the draw as well.
The expectation bubble has burst with Mayo. Fans (and the media) have given up on this Mayo team. We have got to the stage where we are a hard to beat. But we can be beaten. The last 'Big' game we won was against Dublin 2012. All of our other victories have had merit. But they were expected (and this I suppose showed our progress).
We have reached a sort of impasse. Time line was as follows;
2011 reached AI semi final. Beat AI Champions Cork. Beaten well by Kerry. But were in game until midway through 2nd half. Season seen as progress.
2012 Beat Dublin in AI semi final. Lose to Donegal in final. Season seen as progress.
2013 Beat everybody well on the way to final. Lose by a point to Dublin. Season seen as break even.
2014 Scrape past a declining Cork. Hold Kerry in semi to 2 games and extra time before losing. Season seen as break even.
2015 Hold Dublin in semi to 2 games before losing. Season seen as break even.
2016 Roscommon and Galway at home should we meet either in Connacht. On the other side of the draw from Dublin and Kerry should they win their provinces. That said our Ulster kin will be looking at us as being on the easier side of the draw as well.
The expectation bubble has burst with Mayo. Fans (and the media) have given up on this Mayo team. We have got to the stage where we are a hard to beat. But we can be beaten. The last 'Big' game we won was against Dublin 2012. All of our other victories have had merit. But they were expected (and this I suppose showed our progress).
[/quote]
Look at the amount of goals we conceded in the games you mention.Theres a pattern here.Improving our defence has to take priority over the winter.
Improving a defence over the winter doesn t cut it. Our defence stats from last winter are not bad at all. They were better than Kerry's e.g.
It's getting the tactics and game management right on the very big days that has been our Achilles heel. Nothing you do in the league will makes up for that flaw.
If H&C had it they would have had it the last day. Thinking they will learn and be better next year is naïve. Next year will throw up different circumstances and challenges in last 4 (if we get there). If they can t handle a technically complicated situation one year why expect them to be able to deal with a new but possibly more challenging the next? That is the reality we face going forward. I think it is safe to say that most club managers would have got Mayo as far as H&C did this year, considering how far ahead Mayo are ahead of most and the weariness of Donegal this year. This team needed a manager that would add to them.
I've no doubt that H&C will be back again next year but if they are honest they should consider if it is the best for the team.
As well as philosophy, another thing that managers do is repeatedly pick players that have messed up before. Really in our case that's just............
Quote from: moysider on September 11, 2015, 11:47:30 PM
Improving a defence over the winter doesn t cut it. Our defence stats from last winter are not bad at all. They were better than Kerry's e.g.
It's getting the tactics and game management right on the very big days that has been our Achilles heel. Nothing you do in the league will makes up for that flaw.
If H&C had it they would have had it the last day. Thinking they will learn and be better next year is naïve. Next year will throw up different circumstances and challenges in last 4 (if we get there). If they can t handle a technically complicated situation one year why expect them to be able to deal with a new but possibly more challenging the next? That is the reality we face going forward. I think it is safe to say that most club managers would have got Mayo as far as H&C did this year, considering how far ahead Mayo are ahead of most and the weariness of Donegal this year. This team needed a manager that would add to them.
I've no doubt that H&C will be back again next year but if they are honest they should consider if it is the best for the team.
As well as philosophy, another thing that managers do is repeatedly pick players that have messed up before. Really in our case that's just............
Well they ain't getting the bullet. They were more or less ratified. See following.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22696:mayo-gaa-chairman-remains-upbeat-despite-defeat-to-dublin&catid=14&Itemid=100008 (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22696:mayo-gaa-chairman-remains-upbeat-despite-defeat-to-dublin&catid=14&Itemid=100008)
So unless they go of their own accord (which I can't see happening) you are wasting your time chasing this.
Well when the Chairman is the joint manager's brother, what else could we expect?
Quote from: Nihilist on September 12, 2015, 02:44:02 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 11, 2015, 11:47:30 PM
Improving a defence over the winter doesn t cut it. Our defence stats from last winter are not bad at all. They were better than Kerry's e.g.
It's getting the tactics and game management right on the very big days that has been our Achilles heel. Nothing you do in the league will makes up for that flaw.
If H&C had it they would have had it the last day. Thinking they will learn and be better next year is naïve. Next year will throw up different circumstances and challenges in last 4 (if we get there). If they can t handle a technically complicated situation one year why expect them to be able to deal with a new but possibly more challenging the next? That is the reality we face going forward. I think it is safe to say that most club managers would have got Mayo as far as H&C did this year, considering how far ahead Mayo are ahead of most and the weariness of Donegal this year. This team needed a manager that would add to them.
I've no doubt that H&C will be back again next year but if they are honest they should consider if it is the best for the team.
As well as philosophy, another thing that managers do is repeatedly pick players that have messed up before. Really in our case that's just............
Well they ain't getting the bullet. They were more or less ratified. See following.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22696:mayo-gaa-chairman-remains-upbeat-despite-defeat-to-dublin&catid=14&Itemid=100008 (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22696:mayo-gaa-chairman-remains-upbeat-despite-defeat-to-dublin&catid=14&Itemid=100008)
So unless they go of their own accord (which I can't see happening) you are wasting your time chasing this.
I won t be chasing anything nihilist. I m in no position to do so.
As Farrendeelin observes there has been a conflict of interest going on here. This management will get an easy ride like Johnno did and unlike say, Mickey Moran, who was shabbily treated after a good first year in charge.
But if the co. board want to indulge themselves with this kind of blasé approach to possibly the best senior panel we ve had in 60+ years they are only codding themselves. These things always end in grief.
I have yet to meet anybody that have confidence that these guys are good enough when Mayo meet their match and the line makes the difference.
So Moysider seriously you think our defence doesn't need work then?
For one thing do you not think we lack physicality back there?
I mean take Dublin's second goal, Brogan should have been on his hole over the end-line.
I think there's a lot of stuff we can work on over the league and we probably need to take a few risks as well.
I'm not sure about going all out to win it, maybe a few guys need a rest, give others a run.
Do we persist with AOS at FF and if so do we need COC out at CHF to give him the type of ball needs?
Who hangs off him then, Regan maybe?
Is McLoughlin best used as a sweeper because he's not cutting it as an out and out forward, neither is Doherty. No shortage of stuff to be trying.
Quote from: Mac2 on September 22, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
So Moysider seriously you think our defence doesn't need work then?
For one thing do you not think we lack physicality back there?
I mean take Dublin's second goal, Brogan should have been on his hole over the end-line.
I think there's a lot of stuff we can work on over the league and we probably need to take a few risks as well.
I'm not sure about going all out to win it, maybe a few guys need a rest, give others a run.
Do we persist with AOS at FF and if so do we need COC out at CHF to give him the type of ball needs?
Who hangs off him then, Regan maybe?
Is McLoughlin best used as a sweeper because he's not cutting it as an out and out forward, neither is Doherty. No shortage of stuff to be trying.
I m sure it does but not what I was getting at. I m saying that what happens in winter has little bearing on Aug/Sept. Keane featured a lot in the league but hardly got a look in when it counted.
I haven t the stomach to get into who new might come into the frame or not. I m not sure it matters that much. Not the substantive issue in my opinion. I think we had enough to get over line last 2 years. I was in CP on Sunday and convinced more than ever we had. Some disastrous calls cost us dearly. But hey, maybe that's just me.
Some of the calls were calamitous alright and we keep doing it which always leaves us wondering what if.
These 2 boys are not going to become master tacticians overnight so the best we can hope for is that we do as much prep as possible so that when the hard questions are asked the answer might be readymade instead of having to figure it out.
Quote from: Mac2 on September 22, 2015, 10:37:35 PM
Some of the calls were calamitous alright and we keep doing it which always leaves us wondering what if.
These 2 boys are not going to become master tacticians overnight so the best we can hope for is that we do as much prep as possible so that when the hard questions are asked the answer might be readymade instead of having to figure it out.
I'm not sure what management are supposed to do on the day. I would say most of the strategies have been ironed out at game throw in stage with each man tasked with specific jobs.
Look at Fitzmaurice on Sunday. He is supposed to be the master tactician with his ability to out manoeuvere Donegal last year.
But he got nearly all of the major calls wrong on Sunday. Bottom line is that a lot of it is down to the players on the day doing their jobs correctly. Stick to the game plan after that and hope the players are good enough on the day.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 22, 2015, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on September 22, 2015, 10:37:35 PM
Some of the calls were calamitous alright and we keep doing it which always leaves us wondering what if.
These 2 boys are not going to become master tacticians overnight so the best we can hope for is that we do as much prep as possible so that when the hard questions are asked the answer might be readymade instead of having to figure it out.
I'm not sure what management are supposed to do on the day. I would say most of the strategies have been ironed out at game throw in stage with each man tasked with specific jobs.
Look at Fitzmaurice on Sunday. He is supposed to be the master tactician with his ability to out manoeuvere Donegal last year.
But he got nearly all of the major calls wrong on Sunday. Bottom line is that a lot of it is down to the players on the day doing their jobs correctly. Stick to the game plan after that and hope the players are good enough on the day.
The master tacticians are Jim McGuinness and Mickey Harte.
Donegal would not have won an AI without McGuinness approach. No way. Many of the same players under JJ Doherty were a rabble even though John Joe was a legend of a player. Harte took a team that were beaten by Sligo (a really good Sligo team in fairness with several top players) to win the AI the following Sept. Their meticulous attention to process was the difference. Even in the league this year Tyrone were already playing the game they brought into Aug. McGuinness's teams always stuck to the process. for both teams it didn t always work always but it worked often enough. They also crucially tweaked things a bit when they needed to. McMahon no going back into ff line to deal with the big Kerry threat. Murphy playing deeper against the dogged defensive teams to keep his best player influential in games.
Fitzmaurice is a good manager I'm sure. But he was blessed to win an AI last year. A 14 man Mayo team had Kerry on the ropes last year and the Donaghy substitution was a Hail Mary move that was turned into a tactical masterstroke in the media. As usual a lack of proactive response from us when Donaghy was introduced turned Fitzmaurice into a legend and Donaghy into an even bigger bollocks.
Kerry should never have got out of CP alive that day if management were on the ball. The players did everything they could do imo.
I think Horan was great at putting a process in place but maybe too inflexible when circumstances changed during a game (like Seamie getting carded). Stuff happens during games that change the dynamic and no point standing there with arm folded and expecting/ hoping players to work it out themselves.
Dublin were brilliant this year at getting the process right it has to be said. In the replay v Dublin we got sucked in to starting Barry Moran. Between Parsons playing with broken thumb, Seamie carded and Barry tiring we ended up with 0/3 from those players down the stretch while we needed 2/3 still on the pitch. AOS not influencing things either because we literally took him out of the game ourselves.
Meanwhile Dublin started likes of Rock and Bastick that would cope for 40/50 minutes and brought in better quality players like A. Brogan, McManamon and McAuley to crank it up and finish strong. All 3 of those would have started if Gavin picked his best 15 players to start - as teams used to do (and we did in replay apart from Andy Moran and Dillon who was not used because of injury I can only assume). But start them Bastic and Rock will lower the intensity levels if they were the subs.
We re still at the stage of calling on the Sweeneys, Varleys, and Ronaldsons to close out games. The only impact subs we had when it mattered were the 2 Morans. Barry should have been held. Durkan was great of course but not in a position to influence a game like those Dublin subs can.
That's why I'm not optimistic going forward. Next spring will see us trying lads in FBD. Ronaldson and Sweeney will get league games but by summer they are on the periphery again. A fit Jason Gibbons would be a huge addition imo. You cant have enough of these type of players. Parsons coming back in was massive this year. If things went our way he was the best midfielder this year.
For what it's worth my best Mayo players this year were David Clarke, Chris Barrett, Keith, Keegan, Parsons, AOS, Diarmuid O Connor and Andy Moran (Andy rescued a disaster in first semi and set us on the road in second - not his fault we imploded elsewhere). Cillian was as good as could be expected because he was nowhere near the fitness required.
Fair enough except on the SOS black card. No management can foresee that. And neither should they have to as players bring those decisions on themselves. Yes I agree in hindsight it would have been great to have Barry Moran on the bench as an impact sub. But who then would be playing on the first 15? Because of the lack of quality and depth you are talking about starting Patrick Durcan instead of B.
Moran.
If that had happened there would be uproar with people shouting - "You start with your strongest possible team!",
Can't win imo and it's a lot of luck on the day especially how players react in situations. If players are not performing they need to be replaced but who is going to replace them?
Overall Dublin are the yardstick. No disrespect to Ronaldson or Sweeney but smaller players are seriously up against it physically versus the likes of McMahon, O'Carroll, Fitzimonns, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Cooper and McCaffrey. You need big physical guys who can take on the man or else serious speedsters or geniuses ala P. Canavan (which unfortunately we don't have).
When I look at the squad I see probably 25 guys who might hack it against the likes of Dublin over 70 mins and put it up to them in the man-on-man battles. And I think you need at least 25 to help out with injuries, loss of form etc. mid season.
This is my squad with brackets for those unsure about.
Clarke, Hennelly
Barrett, Cafferkey, Keane (although doubts about pace against likes of Brogan etc), Higgins, Cunniffe
Keegan, Vaughan, Boyle, Drake (and probably Durcan but have to wait to see if he can follow it up next year as still young)
Parsons, SOS, BM
DOConnor, KMac, Cillian, JDoc (although he was pretty poor both Dublin games)
AOS, Andy, Freeman, Conroy and possibly Evan Regan (although he is no more that a wild card gamble
as he hasn't even played proper Div 1 football never mind championship)
Only other person I can think of is as you say J Gibbons. But I dunno where he's at. Is he playing county championship now? Hopefully he will have point to prove if he is.
Overall that's about 22/23 players if they all play to their potential. I don't know of anyone else who would be close enough to the panel to take on the likes of Dublin guys at that level. Maybe Dillon but I think his best days are past him.
Unfortunately this year we were unlucky with injuries again in missing Clarke, Cunniffe, Vaughan (imo for replay not fit), Conroy and Regan. And at that stage it was too late to bring in Gibbons so we were stuck with what we had on the bench which was a lot of untested and untried guys. That left us with about 16/17 from above list to take on Dublin in replay.
We need a few more to come on board and make a breakthrough. Players like Brendan Harrisson, Stephen Coen, E. Regan are on the panel and should be pushing for a breakthrough to the first team.
But we also need the likes of C. Loftus, Darren Coen, Seamus Cunniffe and a few more to start trying to push their way on to that panel as you still need the squad.
I was surprised Caolan Crowe was given a short shrift by the management. Redcol knows more about him than I do, but last year in the championship v Knockmore, I would have awarded him motm.
Quote from: REDCOL on September 23, 2015, 05:47:00 PM
Was speaking with a few of this years squad and they were surprised Caolan was let go. We are probably playing him out of his best natural position at Centre Forward, as we need him up there to strengthen our forwards. Would be a natural Centre Back.
He has good hands and is a big man, but feeling around here is that he is probably playing with the wrong club, if he was with the other club in the parish might have a got a bit longer on the panel.
Trevor Nally has been our outstanding player this year but has been injury prone in the past. These lads need to show what they can do on Saturday against Breaffy, and hope a new manager comes with no bias against any Club.
This is the most pathetic post I've read in some time. To imagine that any manager would leave out a player simply because they come from a certain club is laughable in the extreme. Caolan Crowe may well be deserving of a trial but so too are many other players across the county according to their clubmates. Managers will pull in the players that they feel will best contribute to the team because it's in the managers own interest to do so. By all means disagree with who is on the panel but ascribing club bias to managers speaks more to your own narrowminededness than it does about the managers.
So FBD is finished with another defeat at home to the Rossies.
So what is the outlook for 2016 for the Mayo team itself and the new management team?
Mise le Chéad
Well I also don't see anything new happening within the squad outside the recall of possibly Jason Gibbons and maybe the addition of Evan Regan to get a proper run out and game time in the League. Come Championship though the team will have the same familiar faces. I would like to see youth given more of a chance in the form of S. Coen, S. Cunniffe, A Gallagher. Maybe it will happen in the League but I'm not sure.
Personally I also have my doubts about Stephen Rochford. I think he had a handy number there with the footballers of Corofin. Serious outfit at all ages and without any proper competition in Galway at Senior level. Its also a big step up from club to inter county and an even greater one in this position becasue of all the history and on top of that the strike and last years in-house issues. hope I'm wrong here but even if he is the real deal it will take time for him to make his mark on this squad.
Overall - its a hard one to call. I will go for us to retain our League position (just about) but unfortunately reach only the quarters in the championship this year.