So who is going to win the replay. I think the dubs will do it this time as they just had there off day for the 2016 season.
I'm genuinely looking forward to this.
Different atmosphere under lights plus the crowd will have an extra couple of hours to lubricate their tonsils in the pub.
I remember the buzz around town for the Clare v Cork hurling replay so I'm hoping for more of the same.
The Duds are a busted flush at this stage. Mentally broken. The petulant kick by one of the Dublin players on a Mayo player jogging off after the final whistle spoke volumes. Mayo to win comfortably in the reply.
Quote from: Greenabovethered on September 21, 2016, 11:30:28 AM
The Duds are a busted flush at this stage. Mentally broken. The petulant kick by one of the Dublin players on a Mayo player jogging off after the final whistle spoke volumes. Mayo to win comfortably in the reply.
Yeah but the Dubs are still a great team that showed great fortitude to reel Kerry in in the second half of the Semi and surely they will be well able to help out the Duds in the replay?? ;D
Yeah that was the greatest game of all time. Its a pity Mayo didn't have the mental fortitude to reel the Dubs in with 2 minutes of injury time.
Oh wait, sorry, almost forgot my place there. Must practice the mantra again, "Dublin greatest team of all time, Kerry second greatest and were only beaten because they played the greatest team of all time, and didn't choke even though they were 5 points up at half time, Mayo bottlers with no character."
Will practice before I post again, apologies all.
Feeling more confident facing into this than I was before the game on Sunday but the bookies are rarely wrong twice so @ 5/2 we'll need to reproduce that performance + 20% and get the rub of the green that we so badly missed on Sunday.
Before Sunday we (the supporters) were just hoping based on 2015 performances that we could match Dublin but now we know that it's possible and if it's possible to match them, then it's possible to beat them.
Dublin to "under-perform" again and Mayo to win by a 1 point, Jason Doc to get MOTM
The last day was a mad and great game in many respects. The replay could be something similar or something very different.
Good luck to those trying to make sense of it all and making predictions. Predictions for first game were so off the mark. Yet it wont stop the same pundits predicting a similar scenario for the replay. Most will go still go along with their original take on things.
If you look at the recent championship meetings between the two teams, there has been damn all in it. Is it one win each and two draws since 2012. Yet odds and pundits make it look like Mill Reef against a donkey.
The only important form is Mayo v Dublin last few years and not the pasting Dublin give other teams.
I understand why Dublin were nailed on last Sunday. Apart from a workmanlike win over Tyrone, we had no form worth talking about going into an AI final. We produced a bit extra last Sunday so the form issue is no longer a stumbling block. The team performed as well as Dublin performed. The élan that Dublin produced against other teams is irrelevant in this context.
That is not to say that Dublin wont hit a streak and win well the next day. A lot can happen the next day and a lot could be bizarre again. But is very much a Dublin/ Mayo issue and everything else they may have done recently against other opposition is irrelevant.
Stephen Coen to start and be MOTM
I wouldn't read too much into the bookies odds for the replay.
The bookies will have the match priced based on how much they stand to lose if Dublin or Mayo win the All Ireland and not based on who they think will win a one off stand alone match between the two teams.
There will have been a lot more money put on Dublin during the year for the All Ireland than on Mayo so the bookies will be trying to cover some of this potential loss.
Sometimes a great team's time is up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdoKkuN1qx8
Quote from: Greenabovethered on September 21, 2016, 11:30:28 AM
The Duds are a busted flush at this stage. Mentally broken. The petulant kick by one of the Dublin players on a Mayo player jogging off after the final whistle spoke volumes. Mayo to win comfortably in the reply.
The irrational exuberance of some Mayo supporters is beginning to have a Groundhog Day feel about it. It's just over a year since our last replay with Mayo and we all know how that worked out.
Deja vu all over again.
Quote from: Greenabovethered on September 21, 2016, 11:30:28 AM
The Duds are a busted flush at this stage. Mentally broken. The petulant kick by one of the Dublin players on a Mayo player jogging off after the final whistle spoke volumes. Mayo to win comfortably in the reply.
Welcome back GreenaboveRed. Where have you been all this time? The Dubs looked far flushed going into the home straight 3 points up. For a busted flush they came very close to retaining their title. Dublin are in the final a deserve respect. Throw away comments do yourself or you fellow comrades no favours.
Chatting to alot of non/ casual interest in GAA people over the last few days. Seemed to be an awful lot of them going into town for the evening . Regardless of result, reckon town will be hopping that Saturday.
Just out of interest, are there many neutrals on here wanting the Dubs to win or am I the only one?
Quote from: Canalman on September 23, 2016, 12:20:47 PM
Chatting to alot of non/ casual interest in GAA people over the last few days. Seemed to be an awful lot of them going into town for the evening . Regardless of result, reckon town will be hopping that Saturday.
The bus strike might screw that up unfortunately.
Quote from: winghalfun on September 23, 2016, 12:25:36 PM
Just out of interest, are there many neutrals on here wanting the Dubs to win or am I the only one?
Not many I'd guess - but that's understandable.
Barney would be a great addition to the discussion at this stage
There's a lot more hope in the county now than before the last game. Whether or not we will be in for a let down is any body's guess.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2016, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on September 23, 2016, 12:25:36 PM
Just out of interest, are there many neutrals on here wanting the Dubs to win or am I the only one?
Not many I'd guess - but that's understandable.
I d say the rest of Connacht would be 50/50. Roscommon 70/30 for Dublin.
8) 8) 8) 8)i see a few mayo fans with a issue with dublin im in roscommon and i say the dubs never said they where great .its the media who hike all this rubbish on dublin causing a situation where aggression comes out on the dublin team.i lived in dublin for years and they where so good to me with fre housing a job and i never met abuse from any of them . if mayo win on saturday the media especially those idiots on panel will be calling dublin a spent force they are finnished and so on they have no respect for any only who is winning on the day. dublin have notting against mayo the papers use all this rubbish to get them at one anothers throat s.remember too dublin just defended themselves like any team would in a rough game .i think too the ref sent a lad of for a good shoulder charg it was wrong. mayo have a youunger forward line to win this game ,and i think it could be the sam for them if they calm down and play like they did against tipperary and tyrone .no need for rough stuff .but i cant see dublin playing with so much nerves again .illgo for dublin just because of this ganging up on them by rest remember too theres hundredsof thounds country folk are making a living there and should therefore respect that befor spitting vmon on dublin shame on all those who do. i wand dublin to win for this very reason . tommy from tulsk roscommon
Quote from: moysider on September 23, 2016, 08:07:22 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2016, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on September 23, 2016, 12:25:36 PM
Just out of interest, are there many neutrals on here wanting the Dubs to win or am I the only one?
Not many I'd guess - but that's understandable.
I d say the rest of Connacht would be 50/50. Roscommon 70/30 for Dublin.
I'd say Sligo is even worse.
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
tsk tsk
It was the same in 1798
The hype Colm O'Rourke predicted definitely hasn't materialised yet. The consensus seems to be that people are pleased that the team came out and finished fighting but there's a nervousness around if this team can go again with the same intensity for the full game. And even at that they will need improve to overcome this Dublin side. If it's a dry evening the Dubs will be more confident on the ball, this could tip the scales in their favour especially in the final 15 mins.
If its wet; Mayo by 3
If it's dry, Dubs by 4
Quote from: seafoid on September 23, 2016, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
tsk tsk
It was the same in 1798
That Galways were sunshine followers then too?
Quote from: Rossfan on September 23, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 23, 2016, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
tsk tsk
It was the same in 1798
That Galways were sunshine followers then too?
Think some oyster festival started in 1798 :)
Quote from: Mayoffs on September 23, 2016, 10:58:56 PM
The hype Colm O'Rourke predicted definitely hasn't materialised yet. The consensus seems to be that people are pleased that the team came out and finished fighting but there's a nervousness around if this team can go again with the same intensity for the full game. And even at that they will need improve to overcome this Dublin side. If it's a dry evening the Dubs will be more confident on the ball, this could tip the scales in their favour especially in the final 15 mins.
If its wet; Mayo by 3
If it's dry, Dubs by 4
And what if it snows?
Quote from: Mayoffs on September 23, 2016, 10:58:56 PM
The hype Colm O'Rourke predicted definitely hasn't materialised yet. The consensus seems to be that people are pleased that the team came out and finished fighting but there's a nervousness around if this team can go again with the same intensity for the full game. And even at that they will need improve to overcome this Dublin side. If it's a dry evening the Dubs will be more confident on the ball, this could tip the scales in their favour especially in the final 15 mins.
If its wet; Mayo by 3
If it's dry, Dubs by 4
I don't think O'Rourke predicted hype.He warned of the dangers of hype getting to the fans and by extension to the players.
Both he and Brolly urged Mayo to concentrate on the next day and to ignore the draw as it's past history now or something like that.
God, Brolly was a revelation when he urged Mayo to go for it. He had real emotion in his voice and he declared that Mayo were good enough to win outright.
Not sure what Spillane said but he talks through his anal orifice anyway at the best of times.
Don't worry about the weather. If it's fine for Dublin it will be equally fine for Mayo's runners and they are faster and stronger than their counterparts. A distinct lack of fitness heretofore has been the downfall of Mayo many times in the past- including last year's replay and the replay against Kerry in Limerick.
The last day, Mayo finished by far the stronger and there's no reason to think they won't do so the next day. Mayo have excelled at quick bursts forwards with one running off the shoulder of the ball carrier and you need a dry sod underfoot to do that effectively.
I'll be more worried about injuries before the game as there is always a chance that somebody or other will pick one up in training.
If Rochy has a full panel, Mayo needn't fear the devil himself.
This Mayo team don't have it in them to win an AI. You can only bang your head against the wall so many times before it starts to dawn that it just isn't going to happen.
I look at the passes that HB/MF/HFs were providing to the inside men on Sunday and it was eerily similar to the headless passing Mayo were doling out last year in the two Dublin games. And the younger O'Connor wasn't able to influence the game in any meaningful way whereas last year he was the one providing a sense of structure to Mayo's attack.
Mayo as usual played very hard, throwing bodies at balls, the usual stuff. But it was still a very poor quaility game and totally in keeping with Mayo's lack of spark in 2016. Workmanlike will not stick with Dublin if they get a run on you and it really appears that's all Mayo can produce at this stage of the team's lifespan. They've had three games in 12 months to learn those lessons but the fact it hasn't produced fruit suggests it's from lack of ability rather than lack of structure.
Reminds me of this year's Connacht final where we had a chance to win the drawn game but the horse had bolted by the time the replay came around. It could easily be over at half-time on Saturday week.
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
That's what I'm talking about.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 23, 2016, 08:35:34 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 23, 2016, 08:07:22 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2016, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on September 23, 2016, 12:25:36 PM
Just out of interest, are there many neutrals on here wanting the Dubs to win or am I the only one?
Not many I'd guess - but that's understandable.
I d say the rest of Connacht would be 50/50. Roscommon 70/30 for Dublin.
I'd say Sligo is even worse.
They hide it better though. The Connies and Lowland Galway hide it better still because they are looking down from ivory towers with old money in the bank. Syrerus above gives us a good ould grounding. Pisses on this Mayo team.
There are more people in Connacht hoping that Mayo lose than there is in Dublin hoping they win.
I can understand where they are coming from and happy out with that.
Quote from: tommy123 on September 23, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
8) 8) 8) 8)i see a few mayo fans with a issue with dublin im in roscommon and i say the dubs never said they where great .its the media who hike all this rubbish on dublin causing a situation where aggression comes out on the dublin team.i lived in dublin for years and they where so good to me with fre housing a job and i never met abuse from any of them . if mayo win on saturday the media especially those idiots on panel will be calling dublin a spent force they are finnished and so on they have no respect for any only who is winning on the day. dublin have notting against mayo the papers use all this rubbish to get them at one anothers throat s.remember too dublin just defended themselves like any team would in a rough game .i think too the ref sent a lad of for a good shoulder charg it was wrong. mayo have a youunger forward line to win this game ,and i think it could be the sam for them if they calm down and play like they did against tipperary and tyrone .no need for rough stuff .but i cant see dublin playing with so much nerves again .illgo for dublin just because of this ganging up on them by rest remember too theres hundredsof thounds country folk are making a living there and should therefore respect that befor spitting vmon on dublin shame on all those who do. i wand dublin to win for this very reason . tommy from tulsk roscommon
True about plenty of country folk living and working in Dublin. I'm not going getting into an economic/political debate with you about it though. Hard enough to read your post.
there is always less hype around a replay
I hope its a better game the next day.
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
Ah the classic 'I used to support you but now I don't' line. Rudi, for starters you have your chain of events backwards. From my experience, for most Mayo people Roscommon are an absolute irrelevance. Saying that Mayo are preoccupied with Ross is bordering on delusion. On the border yes it's true but elsewhere it isn't.
Having said that, considering Roscommon's lack of success it's amazing how many Galway and Sligo people I know that despise the football team. It's really us they should hate but ourselves and Galway have a healthy 'respect' for each other and as someone said Sligo are probably better at hiding their hatred for us. You lads are genuinely obsessed with Mayo and give us every reason to dish it back to you, I know that better than most. However, at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old 'you started it'!
One thing I know, these last few weeks Roscommon hasn't been on Mayo's radar too much, can Ross say the same about us!
Quote from: Ballaghman on September 24, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
Ah the classic 'I used to support you but now I don't' line. Rudi, for starters you have your chain of events backwards. From my experience, for most Mayo people Roscommon are an absolute irrelevance. Saying that Mayo are preoccupied with Ross is bordering on delusion. On the border yes it's true but elsewhere it isn't.
Having said that, considering Roscommon's lack of success it's amazing how many Galway and Sligo people I know that despise the football team. It's really us they should hate but ourselves and Galway have a healthy 'respect' for each other and as someone said Sligo are probably better at hiding their hatred for us. You lads are genuinely obsessed with Mayo and give us every reason to dish it back to you, I know that better than most. However, at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old 'you started it'!
One thing I know, these last few weeks Roscommon hasn't been on Mayo's radar too much, can Ross say the same about us!
Yeah, we have a shower of head bangers on here but they don't tell the full story.
I haven't been west since the semifinal so I haven't passed through Roscommon since then. But in other years I was touched by the support the non-Ballagh Rossies were giving us. There were plenty of Mayo flags along the road, going through Frenchpark and Tulsk etc.
The bro's missus told me she passed through Roscommon town last week and there were a good few green and red flags to be seen.
Deep down, I do like Roscommon since the days of Dermot Earley. Maybe I should go to confession and confess my sins: I just can't resist rising some of the Rossie buckos we have here. ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 24, 2016, 09:47:25 AM
Quote from: Ballaghman on September 24, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
Ah the classic 'I used to support you but now I don't' line. Rudi, for starters you have your chain of events backwards. From my experience, for most Mayo people Roscommon are an absolute irrelevance. Saying that Mayo are preoccupied with Ross is bordering on delusion. On the border yes it's true but elsewhere it isn't.
Having said that, considering Roscommon's lack of success it's amazing how many Galway and Sligo people I know that despise the football team. It's really us they should hate but ourselves and Galway have a healthy 'respect' for each other and as someone said Sligo are probably better at hiding their hatred for us. You lads are genuinely obsessed with Mayo and give us every reason to dish it back to you, I know that better than most. However, at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old 'you started it'!
One thing I know, these last few weeks Roscommon hasn't been on Mayo's radar too much, can Ross say the same about us!
Yeah, we have a shower of head bangers on here but they don't tell the full story.
I haven't been west since the semifinal so I haven't passed through Roscommon since then. But in other years I was touched by the support the non-Ballagh Rossies were giving us. There were plenty of Mayo flags along the road, going through Frenchpark and Tulsk etc.
The bro's missus told me she passed through Roscommon town last week and there were a good few green and red flags to be seen.
Deep down, I do like Roscommon since the days of Dermot Earley. Maybe I should go to confession and confess my sins: I just can't resist rising some of the Rossie buckos we have here. ;D
Loved the Rossie 80's team. Remember being really depressed when they lost the '80 final! A lot of the flags in FrenchPark and Tulsk are probably Mayo people Married into or living in Roscommon. It's only over the border?
Must be awful to hate your own fellow County people Ballaghrhu!!!
Plenty of Co Mayo people live around Roscommon and aren't slow to fly the oul' Rhu flag.
Ffs lads, this is the ALL IRELAND FINAL THREAD!!
Right. Im heading to knock today to do a few novenas. I need a bit of advice. After reading about how the poor dub forwards struggle with the rain I was thinking going all in for rain next Sunday but I was wondering about a back up plan. What about a good gust of wind. How would the greatest forward line ever assembled handle this. Or anyone got any other ideas of something I could pray for that may give of some chance of staying within 10 points of them
I think the Ros thing is more begrudgery/Schadenfreude/small man syndrome than hatred.
Ros have been away from the top table for so long. A lot of it has to do with economics.
There was an article about occupied Ballaghaderreen in the IT a few weeks ago. Small towns have been hammered and Ros didn't have a big population to start off with . Boyle and Castlerea would have a similar story
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/another-ireland-ballaghaderreen-struggles-to-restore-fortunes-1.2787507
A keen local historian, Mary remembers with vivid detail the liveliness of the town when she was younger. On Station Road nearby "there were 40 kids at any one time. It was a terrific place to grow up."
Now there is just one family on nearby Tay Street (Market Street), the hub on fair days, with cattle on the street and pubs serving food and drink. All "killed off by health and safety. They took off to [the mart in] Castlerea. And John Joe Coleman's on the Square with his Irel coffee, condensed milk, and a block of cheese on Friday's," she said.
Across the street from Gallagher's were two large department stores, Flannery's and Duff's, with another, Gordon's, on the corner. The department stores had grocery shops, drapery with tailor-made suits, elaborate dresses, millinery, footwear, hardware, bakeries, bars, bottling plants. There was Bill Greaney's pub, Kenny's "which was like Disneyland at Christmas, and the Delia Murphy records. The magic of it".
All gone now
They won all Irelands when there was money in those towns
Quote from: criostlinn on September 24, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
Right. Im heading to knock today to do a few novenas. I need a bit of advice. After reading about how the poor dub forwards struggle with the rain I was thinking going all in for rain next Sunday but I was wondering about a back up plan. What about a good gust of wind. How would the greatest forward line ever assembled handle this. Or anyone got any other ideas of something I could pray for that may give of some chance of staying within 10 points of them
Pray for journalists to praise them incessantly
Quote from: criostlinn on September 24, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
Right. Im heading to knock today to do a few novenas. I need a bit of advice. After reading about how the poor dub forwards struggle with the rain I was thinking going all in for rain next Sunday but I was wondering about a back up plan. What about a good gust of wind. How would the greatest forward line ever assembled handle this. Or anyone got any other ideas of something I could pray for that may give of some chance of staying within 10 points of them
Lightning to strike the football as soon as every Dub has a shot.
Quote from: criostlinn on September 24, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
Right. Im heading to knock today to do a few novenas. I need a bit of advice. After reading about how the poor dub forwards struggle with the rain I was thinking going all in for rain next Sunday but I was wondering about a back up plan. What about a good gust of wind. How would the greatest forward line ever assembled handle this. Or anyone got any other ideas of something I could pray for that may give of some chance of staying within 10 points of them
Pray that Mayo can summon up the intensity with which they played the last day - not an easy ask. I suspect that if they can't do that they're snookered.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on September 24, 2016, 09:22:34 AM
there is always less hype around a replay
I hope its a better game the next day.
The main hope any neutral should have. The last game was tight tense and in the balance to the very end however it was far from a great game like some have suggested. IMO the overall quality and standard was low and the rain wasn't all to do with that. If both teams play to potential this day week it could be a great game as its hyped to be.
Quote from: seafoid on September 24, 2016, 10:46:47 AM
I think the Ros thing is more begrudgery/Schadenfreude/small man syndrome than hatred.
Ros have been away from the top table for so long. A lot of it has to do with economics.
There was an article about occupied Ballaghaderreen in the IT a few weeks ago. Small towns have been hammered and Ros didn't have a big population to start off with . Boyle and Castlerea would have a similar story
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/another-ireland-ballaghaderreen-struggles-to-restore-fortunes-1.2787507
They won all Irelands when there was money in those towns
I get your greater point but incorrect on the last line. Ballagh's decline has hurt Mayo football not Ross. We just have more big towns and a bigger population to take the hit I guess.
Anyway, as someone said this is the AIF thread so back to the real issue in hand. Off I go to do a rain dance and then on to Knock to pray for more 'intinsity'
Quote from: Ballaghman on September 24, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 23, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
A Rossie here, I would always have shouted for Mayo once they got out of Connacht. I admire the teams they have produced pretty much since they beat us in 1985. Their supporters always passionate and not sunshine like the Galway ones. However they really do tend to be the first and last to step on our necks any time we shoot ourselves in the feet, which sadly is far too often in our case. Bad experience with a considerable portion of their supporters at the recent Connacht U21 as well. They really do seem to be preoccupied with us, which is difficult to understand as they have regularly kicked our holes at almost every level for the past 30 years. I ain't proud of it but for the reasons mentioned above I could no longer wish them well, even when they are playing a super power like Dublin.
Ah the classic 'I used to support you but now I don't' line. Rudi, for starters you have your chain of events backwards. From my experience, for most Mayo people Roscommon are an absolute irrelevance. Saying that Mayo are preoccupied with Ross is bordering on delusion. On the border yes it's true but elsewhere it isn't.
Having said that, considering Roscommon's lack of success it's amazing how many Galway and Sligo people I know that despise the football team. It's really us they should hate but ourselves and Galway have a healthy 'respect' for each other and as someone said Sligo are probably better at hiding their hatred for us. You lads are genuinely obsessed with Mayo and give us every reason to dish it back to you, I know that better than most. However, at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old 'you started it'!
One thing I know, these last few weeks Roscommon hasn't been on Mayo's radar too much, can Ross say the same about us!
We have our own messes to take care of rather than worrying about Mayo failing in another AI final, Ballaghman. Win or lose it doesn't effect what we need to do. As a Roscommon man you'd be well aware of that, though.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtIbBopW8AExJpc.jpg:large)
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 24, 2016, 08:09:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtIbBopW8AExJpc.jpg:large)
You do know there are several versions of Sam?
Quote from: heffo on September 24, 2016, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 24, 2016, 08:09:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtIbBopW8AExJpc.jpg:large)
You do know there are several versions of Sam?
Yes, but you hold them all. Undisputed.
Quote from: muppet on September 24, 2016, 08:39:15 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 24, 2016, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 24, 2016, 08:09:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtIbBopW8AExJpc.jpg:large)
You do know there are several versions of Sam?
Yes, but you hold them all. Undisputed.
For the time being..... ;) :D ;D
Jinxy, if I may be permitted ...
Sickening arrogance.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 24, 2016, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on September 24, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
Right. Im heading to knock today to do a few novenas. I need a bit of advice. After reading about how the poor dub forwards struggle with the rain I was thinking going all in for rain next Sunday but I was wondering about a back up plan. What about a good gust of wind. How would the greatest forward line ever assembled handle this. Or anyone got any other ideas of something I could pray for that may give of some chance of staying within 10 points of them
Pray that Mayo can summon up the intensity with which they played the last day - not an easy ask. I suspect that if they can't do that they're snookered.
I wouldn't worry about that too much "the Hill is Blue and Green and Red", we've managed to bring it over the past 5 championship encounters so the 6th is probably a dead cert. Just let ye make sure they jersies are made of more than crepe paper next Saturday
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2016, 07:02:14 PM
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
???
I don't follow you Farr; who are the ex-players you have in mind?
Mind you, if the Dubs want to talk about dirty feckers acting the tr**p, they need look no further than Philly McMahon. The only difference is that O'Shea can take care of him without losing the cool, not like Connolly who'll go apeshit long before Keegan gets caught. ;D ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 27, 2016, 07:21:09 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2016, 07:02:14 PM
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
???
I don't follow you Farr; who are the ex-players you have in mind?
Mind you, if the Dubs want to talk about dirty feckers acting the tr**p, they need look no further than Philly McMahon. The only difference is that O'Shea can take care of him without losing the cool, not like Connolly who'll go apeshit long before Keegan gets caught. ;D ;D
The likes of BJP. I know there is damn all ex Mayo players as pundits, but surely Dublin can't have a free rein on the targeting of one individual. I'm afraid to say David Brady, because he could come out with anything!!
Could you imagine the crack if Deegan decided to act on all this propaganda bullshit by issuing an early yellow to Keegan and then a 2nd yellow at some stage while letting Connolly off the hook.
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of such a scenario, the consequence would mean the 'bull' from the Limerick replay would have a stampede alongside him.
The thing is i don't believe Deegan would be foolish enough to do this even in the very improbable scenario that it would be justified.
Question...
How many times has Keegan been sent off in his career? Twice - once in the Kerry draw in 2014 for a silly & petty reaction to Kerry provocation and once with a double yellow in club championship
How many times for Connolly ?
Quote from: blast05 on September 27, 2016, 09:20:14 PM
Could you imagine the crack if Deegan decided to act on all this propaganda bullshit by issuing an early yellow to Keegan and then a 2nd yellow at some stage while letting Connolly off the hook.
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of such a scenario, the consequence would mean the 'bull' from the Limerick replay would have a stampede alongside him.
The thing is i don't believe Deegan would be foolish enough to do this even in the very improbable scenario that it would be justified.
Question...
How many times has Keegan been sent off in his career? Twice - once in the Kerry draw in 2014 for a silly & petty reaction to Kerry provocation and once with a double yellow in club championship
How many times for Connolly ?
You don't get it - Connolly is the Victim? :P
Unless he thumping bystanders in pub, oops, forgot he was the victim there too, for been young, foolish and oh the usual run of blood to the head, you think it was he who ended up with a broken jaw that night, Arise Saint Connolly of the 3 towers lol
It'll be interesting to see what Gavin does with his team selection - Flynn should definitely be dropped for Andrews / Mannion. Chances are it'll be Kevin Mc to lose out though. That said, he'll be a danger coming off the bench. BB and / or MDMA should possibly be gone as well but I doubt either will. McCarthy to midfield would be an option if MDMA were to be dropped, that would give them serious mobility there
For Mayo, you'd imagine that we'll start with the same side unless SOS drops to the bench. That would probably mean Barrett starting and Vaughan playing MF or maybe Coen starting. B Moran isn't mobile enough to play MF in a game where there probably won't be too many contested kickouts.
Connolly into the FF line.
Chalk it down.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2016, 07:02:14 PM
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
I wouldn't worry about it. If a referee is influenced by former players we might as well throw our hat at the whole gig. Both teams.
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2016, 12:57:14 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2016, 07:02:14 PM
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
I wouldn't worry about it. If a referee is influenced by former players we might as well throw our hat at the whole gig. Both teams.
Ger Brennan this morning in the examiner. This is obviously an orchestrated move by Dublin media manager to keep spotlight on Keegan/Connolly. Too much of a coincidence at this stage.
Might be worried that Deegan didnt like being made a bollox of by getting the legal eagles to overturn Connolly red card in the 2011 semi he gave.
Its all a circus and people lap it up
Its pointless even reading the papers about a week before the game
Quote from: ballinaman on September 28, 2016, 07:40:59 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2016, 12:57:14 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2016, 07:02:14 PM
Where are the Mayo ex players? Not a peep from them. Dublin's attempt to get Keegan sent off early is gathering pace. Not one Mayoman calling bullshit to it all.
I wouldn't worry about it. If a referee is influenced by former players we might as well throw our hat at the whole gig. Both teams.
Ger Brennan this morning in the examiner. This is obviously an orchestrated move by Dublin media manager to keep spotlight on Keegan/Connolly. Too much of a coincidence at this stage.
Might be worried that Deegan didnt like being made a bollox of by getting the legal eagles to overturn Connolly red card in the 2011 semi he gave.
I'm sure James Horan, Billy Joe Padden and Perma Tan will voice their opinions in media. James Horan has form for this. 2012 pre Dublin game.
Quote from: blast05 on September 27, 2016, 09:20:14 PM
Could you imagine the crack if Deegan decided to act on all this propaganda bullshit by issuing an early yellow to Keegan and then a 2nd yellow at some stage while letting Connolly off the hook.
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of such a scenario, the consequence would mean the 'bull' from the Limerick replay would have a stampede alongside him.
The thing is i don't believe Deegan would be foolish enough to do this even in the very improbable scenario that it would be justified.
Question...
How many times has Keegan been sent off in his career? Twice - once in the Kerry draw in 2014 for a silly & petty reaction to Kerry provocation and once with a double yellow in club championship
How many times for Connolly ?
Wasn't keegan sent off towards the end of a connacht championship match last year? The details escape me but I think it was against Galway and he got involved in something to wind the clock down. Pretty sure he was sent off.
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
For everything lee Keegan might do McMahon is as bad. Nearly every defender does it but Keegan also has the football to back it up. McMahon does too to be fair but this castigation of him is ridiculous. Defenders on top teams have been worse than him for years without the same furore.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Don't forget O'Shea diving , Colm Boyle late hits , Cillian O'Connor throwing eye socket breaking elbows , the evil culchie Co Boards stealing all the tickets ( especially hill tickets ) for Mayo , Jim Mcguinness plotting evil plans for Mayo , the paid off Ref and of course the worst wet weather (down to the culchie inclined weather gods ) ruining the Dubs celebration party!!! ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 09:42:23 AM
For everything lee Keegan might do McMahon is as bad. Nearly every defender does it but Keegan also has the football to back it up. McMahon does too to be fair but this castigation of him is ridiculous. Defenders on top teams have been worse than him for years without the same furore.
True but top teams tend to have a bad boy fans and media love to hate and McMahon was enemy number one last year so it is Lee's turn this year.
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
the reason for Keegan great disiplinary record is a aprt from That very non violent looking kick he never uses outright violence against his marker ,
look at the way he allowed connolly repeatedly punch him in the face and Dragging him down and punch him on the ground , keegan just kept hold of the jersey showing he would not back down,
keegan deserved his yellow but for striking Connolly should have got a straight red.
can they no longer use video evidence , it made me thing of the yelping mickey harte used to do a few years back when Tyrone were always on the telly and seemed to end up with some one banned every week because of it, and mickey used to blame the cameras and how thuggery in non televised games were treated differently
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
If it is the article I read this morning, I can't see what the fuss is all about. Gist of what I read is that DC is usually targetted ( correct ) by opponents to try and put him off his game because of his suspect temperament (correct) and that any defender would be mad not to do so (correct again).
Bit of faux outrage if you ask me.
Btw, think Dublin will start the same team again next Saturday.
Quote from: Canalman on September 28, 2016, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
If it is the article I read this morning, I can't see what the fuss is all about. Gist of what I read is that DC is usually targetted ( correct ) by opponents to try and put him off his game because of his suspect temperament (correct) and that any defender would be mad not to do so (correct again).
Bit of faux outrage if you ask me.
Btw, think Dublin will start the same team again next Saturday.
It's not one article Canalman - Alan Brogan, Pillar Caffrey, Ger Brennan, Paul Clarke, Ciaran Whelan - they've all been in the media since the drawn game, all with the same mantra.
Quote from: Canalman on September 28, 2016, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
If it is the article I read this morning, I can't see what the fuss is all about. Gist of what I read is that DC is usually targetted ( correct ) by opponents to try and put him off his game because of his suspect temperament (correct) and that any defender would be mad not to do so (correct again).
Bit of faux outrage if you ask me.
In fairness Canalman I don't think it is the usual run of the mill hypersentive angry reaction that you would usually get from my county at this time of year.
Ciaran Whelan had a full edited package showing the evil Lee keegan (which is fair enough if a Mayo pundit had a right of reply to provide balance but this didn't happen) ,
then Alan Brogan had two or three pieces already this week which were careful to highlight that Keegan is the guilty party in this duel and ask the ref to punish Keegan accordingly thus protecting the victim Connolly ,
then Pillar was on RTE radio banging on with the exact same points as Alan and again asking the Ref to take action against Keegan , yesterday Paul Clarke was in the Irish Independent with the same again and ,
lastly Ger Brennans piece in the Examiner with the same key message , Keegan isn't marking Connolly he is taking him out of the game and the only reason Connolly looses his temper is because of this and the Ref/Umpires etc.. need to curb Keegan.
Now Keegan is no saint but is he any worse than Cooper or McMahon (another victim of a media campaign last year)? I would argue no and the reason Keegan v Connolly is of more interest than O'Shea v McMahon or Boyle v Flynn or Cooper v Moran , is because Flynn , Moran and O'Shea are much better than Connolly at keeping their cool ( much more likely to give it back subtly) thus not likely to blow up and be sent off!!
A lot of condescending nonsense has been written about Mayo since the first game in the media. The general narrative is that Dublin can't be as bad again while Mayo played well. Prior to the first game i was sure that Dublin would win it but that was based purely on both sides form this season. What the first game showed is that the only true reliable form guide were the previous encounters between these 2 sides. Mayo still appear to retain their capabilities from the last few years based on the performance the first day. However I think that the first game was a case of both teams playing below par in an attacking sense, not just Dublin. Going into the replay I'd still make Dublin slight favourites but to nowhere near the same extent that they were the first day. Mayo mightn't have the big trophy to show for it but they have arguably been the best side over the last 20 years not to win an AI. I would love to see that change on Saturday and if they could happen to do it against a brilliant Dublin side it would cement their legacy even more. On the other hand if they don't achieve it, there is no shame in getting beaten against the team of a generation.
There is definitely a possibility that Dublin won't be as bad again, they might be worse.
Quote from: rosnarun on September 28, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
You are dead right, ros.
Deegan can be easily influenced by what he reads in the papers. Remember the AI against Donegal when Brolly had waged a one man war against Horan and the team after the win over Dublin.
Mayo started off badly and the backs were totally disorganised as Donegal mounted attack after attack. Both Boyle and Vaughan got yellow cards in the opening few minutes for fouling their markers. But even the commentators were amazed that Deegan would dish them out that early in the game before the players had a chance to settle down.
They fouled alright but getting a yellow at any stage of the game would have been harsh.
Brolly saw things in that game that nobody else saw.
He capped it all by saying that he had a few pints with Pat Gilroy afterwards and Gilroy was "seething" at Mayo's tactics.
Now, the thick plottens as my Connemara buddy used to say......
Dublin was the side that came to the game with a reputation for heavy tactics and oin the first few minutes, McStay and his co-commentator were amazed at some of their tackles that McQuillen was letting go.
No doubt Dublin were giving better than they got but Brolly saw otherwise.
Deegan was watching every Mayo move but saw sweet feck all wrong with Donegal's tactics. At that time, Donegal had an even worse reputation than Dublin for sneaky stuff.
So I am worried that Deegan could be influenced by the witch hunt against Keegan and pay no attention to McMahon at the other end.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on September 28, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
You are dead right, ros.
Deegan can be easily influenced by what he reads in the papers. Remember the AI against Donegal when Brolly had waged a one man war against Horan and the team after the win over Dublin.
Mayo started off badly and the backs were totally disorganised as Donegal mounted attack after attack. Both Boyle and Vaughan got yellow cards in the opening few minutes for fouling their markers. But even the commentators were amazed that Deegan would dish them out that early in the game before the players had a chance to settle down.
They fouled alright but getting a yellow at any stage of the game would have been harsh.
Brolly saw things in that game that nobody else saw.
He capped it all by saying that he had a few pints with Pat Gilroy afterwards and Gilroy was "seething" at Mayo's tactics.
Now, the thick plottens as my Connemara buddy used to say......
Dublin was the side that came to the game with a reputation for heavy tactics and oin the first few minutes, McStay and his co-commentator were amazed at some of their tackles that McQuillen was letting go.
No doubt Dublin were giving better than they got but Brolly saw otherwise.
Deegan was watching every Mayo move but saw sweet feck all wrong with Donegal's tactics. At that time, Donegal had an even worse reputation than Dublin for sneaky stuff.
So I am worried that Deegan could be influenced by the witch hunt against Keegan and pay no attention to McMahon at the other end.
That may all be true Lar but we didn't lose to Donegal because of those yellow cards and we didn't lose the 2013 final because McQuillan let the Dubs be aggressive/physical. If Lee gets the line unfairly while it piss me off big time I don't think it would stop Mayo from winning on Sat and anyway if Deegan does book Lee early he is the type of Ref that won't give him a second yellow (because it is an All Ireland final) unless Lee karate kicks him to the head or tears his arm off!!!
Quote from: criostlinn on September 28, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
I am not watching that link. Could be animal farm fun for all I know.
What are you on about , don't read social media rubbish (Hill 16 army or Mayo GAA pages are just as bad, its what gives GAA and fans a bad name) , I make up my own opinion and what I saw sitting in the canal end I think with about 10 to 15 min gone Connolly was dragged to the ground off the ball in front of the ref and it was play on. Don't get me wrong, il like Lee keegan and great player but would you not admit he gets away with a lot no? Just say you were not a Mayo fan what would you think?
Cue comparisons to other players, we are talking about Lee (The refs angel) Keegan here.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on September 28, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
I am not watching that link. Could be animal farm fun for all I know.
What are you on about , don't read social media rubbish (Hill 16 army or Mayo GAA pages are just as bad, its what gives GAA and fans a bad name) , I make up my own opinion and what I saw sitting in the canal end I think with about 10 to 15 min gone Connolly was dragged to the ground off the ball in front of the ref and it was play on. Don't get me wrong, il like Lee keegan and great player but would you not admit he gets away with a lot no? Just say you were not a Mayo fan what would you think?
Cue comparisons to other players, we are talking about Lee (The refs angel) Keegan here.
Just say you were not a Dublin fan and read back what you just posted and have been posting for the last three weeks , what would you think?
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on September 28, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
I am not watching that link. Could be animal farm fun for all I know.
What are you on about , don't read social media rubbish (Hill 16 army or Mayo GAA pages are just as bad, its what gives GAA and fans a bad name) , I make up my own opinion and what I saw sitting in the canal end I think with about 10 to 15 min gone Connolly was dragged to the ground off the ball in front of the ref and it was play on. Don't get me wrong, il like Lee keegan and great player but would you not admit he gets away with a lot no? Just say you were not a Mayo fan what would you think?
Cue comparisons to other players, we are talking about Lee (The refs angel) Keegan here.
Just say you were not a Dublin fan and read back what you just posted and have been posting for the last three weeks , what would you think?
I think Lee Keegan gets away with murder by the refs.
I think Philly Mc gets away with murder too by the refs.
Its how cute you go about getting away with murder that counts.
I think James Mc black card was the harshest black card in the history of the black card and a contributing factor is Mayo are soft or feign a lot.
Look I don't want it turn into Hoganstand forum or as you say Facebook page 101.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on September 28, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
I am not watching that link. Could be animal farm fun for all I know.
What are you on about , don't read social media rubbish (Hill 16 army or Mayo GAA pages are just as bad, its what gives GAA and fans a bad name) , I make up my own opinion and what I saw sitting in the canal end I think with about 10 to 15 min gone Connolly was dragged to the ground off the ball in front of the ref and it was play on. Don't get me wrong, il like Lee keegan and great player but would you not admit he gets away with a lot no? Just say you were not a Mayo fan what would you think?
Cue comparisons to other players, we are talking about Lee (The refs angel) Keegan here.
If this is the incident involving the ripped jersey, Connolly is the first to grab a hold of Keegan's jersey. Anyhoo, I enjoy their battles. The Mayo men are getting awfully paranoid and the Dubs awfully defensive and the Rossies are still clean buck mad...
In AI finals referees tend to relax the rules a bit and let a lot of things go in order to let the game flow. I think the ref in the last game did this but maybe too much and so there was a lot of unsavoury stuff going on.
I think it would be no harm for the ref to speak to both teams before the match and tell them if there is any special attention being handed out to stop players then yellows will be issued early so that the players being fouled don't have to take the law into their own hands. This way players will be forewarned and should cut it out or know they will pay the price.
A few saying Keegan is almost justified in fouling Connolly the whole game because he's hot headed and going to retaliate. Sean Cavanagh is not a player who retaliates easy as he's put up with a lot of shite over the years.
I am no fan of Connolly or Dublin but think the refs have to protect a player when he is being repeatly fouled and roughed up otherwise the situation will escalate. I think McMahon is a dirtier player than Keegan in some ways but he won't continually sacrifice his own game to take his man out of the game in the same way Keegan will.
To me it's pretty simple in that if the ref would referee the game properly then it would stop all this nonsense. When the linesman spots an incident he reports it to the ref. The ref then books the player in question (NOT both of them unless he retaliates) and the matter is dealt with.
Do Mayo posters disagree with the line "Keegan isn't marking Connolly he is taking him out of the game and the only reason Connolly looses his temper is because of this and the Ref/Umpires etc.. need to curb Keegan."?
Yes they also need to curb McMahon and whoever else
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 28, 2016, 12:56:25 PM
In AI finals referees tend to relax the rules a bit and let a lot of things go in order to let the game flow. I think the ref in the last game did this but maybe too much and so there was a lot of unsavoury stuff going on.
I think it would be no harm for the ref to speak to both teams before the match and tell them if there is any special attention being handed out to stop players then yellows will be issued early so that the players being fouled don't have to take the law into their own hands. This way players will be forewarned and should cut it out or know they will pay the price.
A few saying Keegan is almost justified in fouling Connolly the whole game because he's hot headed and going to retaliate. Sean Cavanagh is not a player who retaliates easy as he's put up with a lot of shite over the years.
I am no fan of Connolly or Dublin but think the refs have to protect a player when he is being repeatly fouled and roughed up otherwise the situation will escalate. I think McMahon is a dirtier player than Keegan in some ways but he won't continually sacrifice his own game to take his man out of the game in the same way Keegan will.
To me it's pretty simple in that if the ref would referee the game properly then it would stop all this nonsense. When the linesman spots an incident he reports it to the ref. The ref then books the player in question (NOT both of them unless he retaliates) and the matter is dealt with.
Do Mayo posters disagree with the line "Keegan isn't marking Connolly he is taking him out of the game and the only reason Connolly looses his temper is because of this and the Ref/Umpires etc.. need to curb Keegan."?
Yes they also need to curb McMahon and whoever else
Fuzzman.....I head from 3 people who were sitting behind the goal that Cavanagh shouldered Keegan in the back as the teams made their way in for the start of the second half. Cavanagh instigated the grappling that got both of them a yellow card
He then hit AOS with a high forearm....looking at the replay it was more mistimed than malicious , but still a yellow all day long
So please spare me the Cavangh as victim spiel
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 28, 2016, 12:56:25 PM
In AI finals referees tend to relax the rules a bit and let a lot of things go in order to let the game flow. I think the ref in the last game did this but maybe too much and so there was a lot of unsavoury stuff going on.
I think it would be no harm for the ref to speak to both teams before the match and tell them if there is any special attention being handed out to stop players then yellows will be issued early so that the players being fouled don't have to take the law into their own hands. This way players will be forewarned and should cut it out or know they will pay the price.
A few saying Keegan is almost justified in fouling Connolly the whole game because he's hot headed and going to retaliate. Sean Cavanagh is not a player who retaliates easy as he's put up with a lot of shite over the years.
I am no fan of Connolly or Dublin but think the refs have to protect a player when he is being repeatly fouled and roughed up otherwise the situation will escalate. I think McMahon is a dirtier player than Keegan in some ways but he won't continually sacrifice his own game to take his man out of the game in the same way Keegan will.
To me it's pretty simple in that if the ref would referee the game properly then it would stop all this nonsense. When the linesman spots an incident he reports it to the ref. The ref then books the player in question (NOT both of them unless he retaliates) and the matter is dealt with.
Do Mayo posters disagree with the line "Keegan isn't marking Connolly he is taking him out of the game and the only reason Connolly looses his temper is because of this and the Ref/Umpires etc.. need to curb Keegan."?
Yes they also need to curb McMahon and whoever else
Fuzzman.....I head from 3 people who were sitting behind the goal that Cavanagh shouldered Keegan in the back as the teams made their way in for the start of the second half. Cavanagh instigated the grappling that got both of them a yellow card
He then hit AOS with a high forearm....looking at the replay it was more mistimed than yellow, but still a yellow all day long
So please spare me the Cavangh as victim spiel
This was probably intentional on Cavanagh's part to get keegan booked.
If I was connolly on Saturday, I'd start a grabbling match straight away with Keegan (even before throw in). They both get booked and then both have to be careful for the rest of the game. But as the defender, it would mean that Keegan couldn't tackle or hold/pull as much as defender normally would.
Now, obviously that comes with risk as Connolly is as likely to get a second yellow as anyone but it'd be worth the risk for me.
Same goes for any other forward that's struggling with 'close attention' from mcmahon or cooper or whoever. Get the defender booked as early as possible!
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on September 28, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Never mind the papers or that rubbish you read on social media, Ask Comier or Cavanagh about Keegan, he has form for it, prevents the best players on each team by pulling, dragging, fouling, gets away with murder. But I understand why he does it and I would do the same every time. It is part of the game.
Yeah yeah I know the Dubs are no angels, Philly Mac this, Duirmo that, Cooper this.
Ask Comer about it. Are you for real. Have you asked Comer about it and what did he say.
Oh and here is the incident just so you can see iy and not be repeating shite your reading on Hill 16 Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izstyz9hbIg
I am not watching that link. Could be animal farm fun for all I know.
What are you on about , don't read social media rubbish (Hill 16 army or Mayo GAA pages are just as bad, its what gives GAA and fans a bad name) , I make up my own opinion and what I saw sitting in the canal end I think with about 10 to 15 min gone Connolly was dragged to the ground off the ball in front of the ref and it was play on. Don't get me wrong, il like Lee keegan and great player but would you not admit he gets away with a lot no? Just say you were not a Mayo fan what would you think?
Cue comparisons to other players, we are talking about Lee (The refs angel) Keegan here.
Fair enough points but we are talking about Keegan and Connolly and I am saying DC can give as much as he gets whenever this awesome twosome gets together.
I mentioned a few pages ago that soon after the start of the '13 final, a camera caught an off-the-ball incident where Saint Diarmuid was to be clearly seen jabbing his fingers into Keegan's back while Leroy kept looking straight ahead while attempting top to knock Connolly's hand away by elbowing back.
Our bucko was clearly not the instigator here.
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on September 28, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
You are dead right, ros.
Deegan can be easily influenced by what he reads in the papers. Remember the AI against Donegal when Brolly had waged a one man war against Horan and the team after the win over Dublin.
Mayo started off badly and the backs were totally disorganised as Donegal mounted attack after attack. Both Boyle and Vaughan got yellow cards in the opening few minutes for fouling their markers. But even the commentators were amazed that Deegan would dish them out that early in the game before the players had a chance to settle down.
They fouled alright but getting a yellow at any stage of the game would have been harsh.
Brolly saw things in that game that nobody else saw.
He capped it all by saying that he had a few pints with Pat Gilroy afterwards and Gilroy was "seething" at Mayo's tactics.
Now, the thick plottens as my Connemara buddy used to say......
Dublin was the side that came to the game with a reputation for heavy tactics and oin the first few minutes, McStay and his co-commentator were amazed at some of their tackles that McQuillen was letting go.
No doubt Dublin were giving better than they got but Brolly saw otherwise.
Deegan was watching every Mayo move but saw sweet feck all wrong with Donegal's tactics. At that time, Donegal had an even worse reputation than Dublin for sneaky stuff.
So I am worried that Deegan could be influenced by the witch hunt against Keegan and pay no attention to McMahon at the other end.
That may all be true Lar but we didn't lose to Donegal because of those yellow cards and we didn't lose the 2013 final because McQuillan let the Dubs be aggressive/physical. If Lee gets the line unfairly while it piss me off big time I don't think it would stop Mayo from winning on Sat and anyway if Deegan does book Lee early he is the type of Ref that won't give him a second yellow (because it is an All Ireland final) unless Lee karate kicks him to the head or tears his arm off!!!
Nah, but the point I was making is that Deegan can be influenced by what he reads.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on September 28, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
You are dead right, ros.
Deegan can be easily influenced by what he reads in the papers. Remember the AI against Donegal when Brolly had waged a one man war against Horan and the team after the win over Dublin.
Mayo started off badly and the backs were totally disorganised as Donegal mounted attack after attack. Both Boyle and Vaughan got yellow cards in the opening few minutes for fouling their markers. But even the commentators were amazed that Deegan would dish them out that early in the game before the players had a chance to settle down.
They fouled alright but getting a yellow at any stage of the game would have been harsh.
Brolly saw things in that game that nobody else saw.
He capped it all by saying that he had a few pints with Pat Gilroy afterwards and Gilroy was "seething" at Mayo's tactics.
Now, the thick plottens as my Connemara buddy used to say......
Dublin was the side that came to the game with a reputation for heavy tactics and oin the first few minutes, McStay and his co-commentator were amazed at some of their tackles that McQuillen was letting go.
No doubt Dublin were giving better than they got but Brolly saw otherwise.
Deegan was watching every Mayo move but saw sweet feck all wrong with Donegal's tactics. At that time, Donegal had an even worse reputation than Dublin for sneaky stuff.
So I am worried that Deegan could be influenced by the witch hunt against Keegan and pay no attention to McMahon at the other end.
That may all be true Lar but we didn't lose to Donegal because of those yellow cards and we didn't lose the 2013 final because McQuillan let the Dubs be aggressive/physical. If Lee gets the line unfairly while it piss me off big time I don't think it would stop Mayo from winning on Sat and anyway if Deegan does book Lee early he is the type of Ref that won't give him a second yellow (because it is an All Ireland final) unless Lee karate kicks him to the head or tears his arm off!!!
Nah, but the point I was making is that Deegan can be influenced by what he reads.
I agree but we can't control what influences a good/bad/shite ref but Mayo can control up to 90% of the rest of what happens in a game so that's what I am more concerned with and that is where might beat Dublin!!
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 02:11:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on September 28, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 28, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Seems a bit excessive this time though. Connolly is no saint and Cavanagh was a villain until a year or two ago and is now whiter than white making Keegan look bad. Sure Crowley was always as bad on Cavanagh anyway when he marked him.
Do you not just think it is a case of the Dubs camp taking advantage of the newspapers that are desperate to sell papers? With Dublin being where they will sell the most papers , having a piece with some ex Dublin hero attached to it is going to sell more copy than with an ex Mayo stars' name attached to it.
If the Dubs think they will sink Mayo by pressurising a ref to book or send off Keegan through the papers then let them at it but I think they have gone way over the top this week and it could well backfire on them.
id seriously worry about Deegan he seems a very weak willed character that the crowd know they can get at , like a lot of refs he seems to pick a few rules to ref on a certain day and ignore 90% of the rest of whats going on
You are dead right, ros.
Deegan can be easily influenced by what he reads in the papers. Remember the AI against Donegal when Brolly had waged a one man war against Horan and the team after the win over Dublin.
Mayo started off badly and the backs were totally disorganised as Donegal mounted attack after attack. Both Boyle and Vaughan got yellow cards in the opening few minutes for fouling their markers. But even the commentators were amazed that Deegan would dish them out that early in the game before the players had a chance to settle down.
They fouled alright but getting a yellow at any stage of the game would have been harsh.
Brolly saw things in that game that nobody else saw.
He capped it all by saying that he had a few pints with Pat Gilroy afterwards and Gilroy was "seething" at Mayo's tactics.
Now, the thick plottens as my Connemara buddy used to say......
Dublin was the side that came to the game with a reputation for heavy tactics and oin the first few minutes, McStay and his co-commentator were amazed at some of their tackles that McQuillen was letting go.
No doubt Dublin were giving better than they got but Brolly saw otherwise.
Deegan was watching every Mayo move but saw sweet feck all wrong with Donegal's tactics. At that time, Donegal had an even worse reputation than Dublin for sneaky stuff.
So I am worried that Deegan could be influenced by the witch hunt against Keegan and pay no attention to McMahon at the other end.
That may all be true Lar but we didn't lose to Donegal because of those yellow cards and we didn't lose the 2013 final because McQuillan let the Dubs be aggressive/physical. If Lee gets the line unfairly while it piss me off big time I don't think it would stop Mayo from winning on Sat and anyway if Deegan does book Lee early he is the type of Ref that won't give him a second yellow (because it is an All Ireland final) unless Lee karate kicks him to the head or tears his arm off!!!
Nah, but the point I was making is that Deegan can be influenced by what he reads.
Deegan was influenced in last years semi-final against Kerry by RTE's montage of Tyrone "dark arts" against Monaghan in the quarter-final.
Tyrone had a stone-wall penalty shout denied in the last 5mins & McNulty booked for diving instead.
For any twitteratti out there check out #thingsLeedid😂😂😂
Whitey, spare you the Cavanagh victim spiel?
Cavanagh had been targeted all first half as Keegan would pull and drag him and block his runs, exactly like he does v Connolly and Westbound sums it up correctly. So Cavanagh decides to take matters into his own hands and try to get him booked as it might stop his nonsense. Unfortunately for Sean he ends up getting the 2nd booking and so feels distraught that he let his team down.
Now I don't expect you to have much sympathy for Sean as he got himself sent off but can you at least admit that Sean reacted like he did because Keegan was at him the whole first half or were you blind to that?
OK let me ask you another question? Do you think Keegan continually uses unlawful methods to put his man off or do you not see that either?
I'm not asking if McMahon or Cooper do the same things? I'm asking do you see Keegan doing it?
Are you saying that it's Connolly (and Cavanagh) who were the instigators and that Keegan and don't nothing to provoke that reaction?
I can admit I saw Justy McMahon do it a few years ago to Murphy up in Donegal and he should have been booked much early than he was. Some say it's part and parcel of the game but to be it's a foul and a yellow card
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 28, 2016, 04:00:27 PM
Whitey, spare you the Cavanagh victim spiel?
Cavanagh had been targeted all first half as Keegan would pull and drag him and block his runs, exactly like he does v Connolly and Westbound sums it up correctly. So Cavanagh decides to take matters into his own hands and try to get him booked as it might stop his nonsense. Unfortunately for Sean he ends up getting the 2nd booking and so feels distraught that he let his team down.
Now I don't expect you to have much sympathy for Sean as he got himself sent off but can you at least admit that Sean reacted like he did because Keegan was at him the whole first half or were you blind to that?
OK let me ask you another question? Do you think Keegan continually uses unlawful methods to put his man off or do you not see that either?
I'm not asking if McMahon or Cooper do the same things? I'm asking do you see Keegan doing it?
Are you saying that it's Connolly (and Cavanagh) who were the instigators and that Keegan and don't nothing to provoke that reaction?
I can admit I saw Justy McMahon do it a few years ago to Murphy up in Donegal and he should have been booked much early than he was. Some say it's part and parcel of the game but to be it's a foul and a yellow card
The first bit in bold , Yes Keegan does use unlawful methods to put his man off but to say continually he does this I would say no , because he is a very good defender so it is his ability that shuts people down the majority of the time!!
Justy did the odd time go over the edge but if I had to name top Tyrone defenders that had a go/took it over the edge at players while they shut them down Gormley and Ricey would come to my mind first but that's neither here no there!!
The Leeroy v Diarmuid hoo ha is really dominating the whole replay coverage, to the extent that the improvement required from either team to win is becoming a sideshow. Roll up for the main event, Keegan v Connolly. Never mind stuff like will Brogan or Flynn start, will Dublin improve their performance, will Mayo concede goals again or give away as much possession as they did the last day. It appears that it is been driven by former Dublin players and management, but with the furore over it it's hard to see who, if anyone is going to benefit from it. As someone said earlier, it might actually completely back fire on the side that have so vocally pushed it.
It never seases to amaze me at people's desire to be outraged. The last game was refereed well on the whole yet to listen to the media you would think there was a full scale riot at it. You would see far worse at most club matches up and down the country yet both sides are crying foul at what was nothing more than a bit of handbags. Then to listen to the hypocrisy of tough men like Ciaran Whelan, Paul Clarke and David Brady complaining about rough house treatment you just have to laugh.
As a neutral I hope Deegan referees the game with a bit of common sense and lets it flow rather than blowing for fouls at every hint of contact. The last thing anyone wants to see is a game spoiled by a whistler trying to keep an assessor in the stand with a notebook happy.
Why should a ref not blow his whistle when a man is fouled and is disadvantaged by being so fouled?
"Letting the game flow" is grand up to a point but the Ref's job is to apply the rules.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2016, 05:14:41 PM
Why should a ref not blow his whistle when a man is fouled and is disadvantaged by being so fouled?
"Letting the game flow" is grand up to a point but the Ref's job is to apply the rules.
Why? Because such is the nature of gaelic football the tackle is very much open to interpretation. A whistle happy referee will referee by blowing at minimal contact whereas a referee who lets the game flow will allow more physical contact in the tackle. Both can claim justification but I'd much prefer to see the latter as it makes for a far better spectacle. Pat McEneaney used to be the best at refereeing in this manner.
I don't know when everyone got so bloody sensitive, but this kind of craic between Connolly and Keegan goes on up and down the country in club matches and much worse happens too. Keegan and Connolly are two of the best footballers in the country at the moment and the match-up between them is great to watch. Part of the reason it's great to watch is because there's that bit of niggle and bite to it. It's the kind of battle that makes the game interesting and it's something that will be remembered fondly from this era. Former Dublin players crawling out of the woodwork to deliver the same message on Keegan looks very suspicious and if they are trying to influence the ref, that's bad form. Anyway, the idea that Keegan is always the aggressor and Connolly the victim is completely laughable. There's two of them in it and Diarmuid Connolly is a big boy now. He's well able to give as good as he gets and frequently does. Let them off.
I really hope none of this nonsense seeps into Deegan's mindset, but I fear it could. He is a ref who is easily swayed and influenced to my mind.
Quote from: ZeitChrist on September 28, 2016, 06:41:19 PM
I don't know when everyone got so bloody sensitive, but this kind of craic between Connolly and Keegan goes on up and down the country in club matches and much worse happens too. Keegan and Connolly are two of the best footballers in the country at the moment and the match-up between them is great to watch. Part of the reason it's great to watch is because there's that bit of niggle and bite to it. It's the kind of battle that makes the game interesting and it's something that will be remembered fondly from this era. Former Dublin players crawling out of the woodwork to deliver the same message on Keegan looks very suspicious and if they are trying to influence the ref, that's bad form. Anyway, the idea that Keegan is always the aggressor and Connolly the victim is completely laughable. There's two of them in it and Diarmuid Connolly is a big boy now. He's well able to give as good as he gets and frequently does. Let them off.
I really hope none of this nonsense seeps into Deegan's mindset, but I fear it could. He is a ref who is easily swayed and influenced to my mind.
Agree fully, too much whinging going on in the newspapers. Big hypocritical cry babies. There should be a rule against talking about the referee before matches, its obvious what Dublin in particular are up to.
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg573/lockout1913/0814dac5-1478-47a8-9a2f-07cd1b727ea4_zpsauhyaimq.jpg)
Cant help it blame Bucko ;D
Great odds for Mayo at 9/4. Backed them months ago at 7/1. Stand to make 40k if they win. 9/1 to win 4-6 is great bet
Mayo 1-3 pts 4/1
Mayo 4-6 pts 9/1
Mayo 7-9 pts 14/1
Mayo 10-12 pts 25/1
Mayo 13-15 pts 40/1
Mayo 16 pts or more 80/1
Quote from: gammysolo on September 28, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Great odds for Mayo at 9/4. Backed them months ago at 7/1. Stand to make 40k if they win. 9/1 to win 4-6 is great bet
Mayo 1-3 pts 4/1
Mayo 4-6 pts 9/1
Mayo 7-9 pts 14/1
Mayo 10-12 pts 25/1
Mayo 13-15 pts 40/1
Mayo 16 pts or more 80/1
So you put 5k on Mayo a few months back? Good call ::)
You should definitely lay them off
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 28, 2016, 08:06:11 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on September 28, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Great odds for Mayo at 9/4. Backed them months ago at 7/1. Stand to make 40k if they win. 9/1 to win 4-6 is great bet
Mayo 1-3 pts 4/1
Mayo 4-6 pts 9/1
Mayo 7-9 pts 14/1
Mayo 10-12 pts 25/1
Mayo 13-15 pts 40/1
Mayo 16 pts or more 80/1
So you put 5k on Mayo a few months back? Good call ::)
You should definitely lay them off
Call it a hunch. i really rate this management, most professional and best management mayo ever had
Quote from: gammysolo on September 28, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Great odds for Mayo at 9/4. Backed them months ago at 7/1. Stand to make 40k if they win. 9/1 to win 4-6 is great bet
Mayo 1-3 pts 4/1
Mayo 4-6 pts 9/1
Mayo 7-9 pts 14/1
Mayo 10-12 pts 25/1
Mayo 13-15 pts 40/1
Mayo 16 pts or more 80/1
Little to be doing setting up a new account to spout off a load of drivel. Far too much time.
I made the mistake of reading through Mayo GAA Blog yesterday
Its like if St Pats Hospital had its own blog
The quest for sam has driven them completely mad
Quote from: Kurtz on September 29, 2016, 09:20:07 AM
I made the mistake of reading through Mayo GAA Blog yesterday
Its like if St Pats Hospital had its own blog
The quest for sam has driven them completely mad
Inhabited by some of the more excitable folk alright :)
Still far more sense than you'd find over on Hoganstand, Lord between us and all harm!
Quote from: yellowcard on September 28, 2016, 10:14:00 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on September 28, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Great odds for Mayo at 9/4. Backed them months ago at 7/1. Stand to make 40k if they win. 9/1 to win 4-6 is great bet
Mayo 1-3 pts 4/1
Mayo 4-6 pts 9/1
Mayo 7-9 pts 14/1
Mayo 10-12 pts 25/1
Mayo 13-15 pts 40/1
Mayo 16 pts or more 80/1
Little to be doing setting up a new account to spout off a load of drivel. Far too much time.
or more likely its part of a Social media Marketing drive by so thieving bookie- name to be supplied later
these are stupid bests any way
your team is say winning by 16 and are already celebrating and let in a consolation point and bang goes your money
The Dubs are rattled its Mayo year.
Quote from: gammysolo on September 29, 2016, 11:12:34 AM
The Dubs are rattled its Mayo year.
Yeah terrified. This is Mayo's tenth attempt in league and championship to beat Jim Gavins Dublin, win or lose on Saturday it will still be the decade of the Dubs.
Enjoy the game.
all in the past. This new chapter for Mayo. Mayo to win by 7 .dubs peaked in league. Andy Moran and Cillian to get least at least 3 goals between them.Aidan O'Shea to deliver a man of match performance and destroy McMahon and co. Will be rough night in Castlebar sunday. Nice to see a Roscommon man on mayo team lifting sam too ;D
Quote from: gammysolo on September 29, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
all in the past. This new chapter for Mayo. Mayo to win by 7 .dubs peaked in league. Andy Moran and Cillian to get least at least 3 goals between them.Aidan O'Shea to deliver a man of match performance and destroy McMahon and co. Will be rough night in Castlebar sunday. Nice to see a Roscommon man on mayo team lifting sam too ;D
Sounds good, should be a great victory party and your right, Dubs are finished.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 29, 2016, 11:16:03 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on September 29, 2016, 11:12:34 AM
The Dubs are rattled its Mayo year.
Yeah terrified. This is Mayo's tenth attempt in league and championship to beat Jim Gavins Dublin, win or lose on Saturday it will still be the decade of the Dosh.
Enjoy the game.
just fixed a wee typo there
Quote from: gammysolo on September 29, 2016, 11:12:34 AM
The Dubs are rattled its Mayo year.
I have to agree with you. The Dubs are in for a terrible beating on Saturday. All the momentum is with Mayo. This is a great Mayo team and they will show off their skills to the world this weekend.
:o
Dry day ahead for Saturday so the conditions cannot be used as a reason for Dublin under performing. Really low key build up to the replay in comparision to the first match apart from a bit of whinging about Lee Keegan by the Dublin media.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ciar%C3%A1n-murphy-relishing-a-floodlit-footballing-feast-in-replay-1.2809018
That will put you in the mood for Saturday evening!!
Destroys another few narratives....
https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc (https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc)
Quote from: blast05 on September 29, 2016, 03:06:29 PM
Destroys another few narratives....
https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc (https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc)
The Feigners. ;) come on lads, lets stop all this nonsense.
A lot of people are just turning a blind eye to all that puke football.
You would imagine Eugene McGee would be speaking out against it big time.
Imagine if a Tyrone man did that...
Quote from: blast05 on September 29, 2016, 03:06:29 PM
Destroys another few narratives....
https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc (https://youtu.be/mk55BKW3wtc)
Michael Dara McAuley was actually out of control almost the entire game. Thats why he was subbed. Hes the one Deegan needs to keep both eyes on next Saturday
That Macauley tackle on O'Connor was pretty shocking. I can't believe he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
Looks like a dry ball for Saturday.
Who will this suit the most?
It certainly went against the Dublin forwards the last day but I also felt it went against our long ball / kick passing Rochball. Maybe Aiden will click the next day and we can get a few early goals this time.
I like that the build up is more low key and that more "real" Dubs and Mayos will get In for this one, suits us more.
Is it true that O'Callaghan will start?
Quote from: Tubberman on September 29, 2016, 09:33:05 AM
Quote from: Kurtz on September 29, 2016, 09:20:07 AM
I made the mistake of reading through Mayo GAA Blog yesterday
Its like if St Pats Hospital had its own blog
The quest for sam has driven them completely mad
Inhabited by some of the more excitable folk alright :)
Still far more sense than you'd find over on Hoganstand, Lord between us and all harm!
You get a good aul laugh reading the Res Dubs forum too ;D
Quote from: yellowcard on September 29, 2016, 02:15:49 PM
Dry day ahead for Saturday so the conditions cannot be used as a reason for Dublin under performing. Really low key build up to the replay in comparision to the first match apart from a bit of whinging about Lee Keegan by the Dublin media.
Nope its going to be showery, heavy showers in the morning up until around 12, and some more around 3. Probably wont be raining by throw in but the grass and ball will be wet
Quote from: ZeitChrist on September 29, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
That Macauley tackle on O'Connor was pretty shocking. I can't believe he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
again i would ask what ever happened video evidence . every match had a few 'citings' a few years back
Quote from: ZeitChrist on September 29, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
That Macauley tackle on O'Connor was pretty shocking. I can't believe he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
According to gallsman it was O'Connor's fault.
Is either side going to bother naming their teams for this match, I would have thought that with just over 24 hours to go that they would have named their starting fifteen by now.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 30, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
Is either side going to bother naming their teams for this match, I would have thought that with just over 24 hours to go that they would have named their starting fifteen by now.
I thought the Dublin team was supposed to be named last night?
Quote from: yellowcard on September 30, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
Is either side going to bother naming their teams for this match, I would have thought that with just over 24 hours to go that they would have named their starting fifteen by now.
Can't imagine Mayo won't name the same starting 15. Is Alan Dillon still bucked does anyone know? Dublin on the other hand may well start Bastick instead of McAuley.
Andrews is bound to be in with a big shout of starting
Rochford and his team have proven to be very astute and do not miss the obvious.
Take it then that Stephen Coen will start for us, why? Because it is obvious.
Mayo team unchanged.
1. David Clarke (Ballina Stephenites)
2. Brendan Harrison (Aghamore)
3. Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe)
4. Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis)
5. Lee Keegan (Westport)
6. Colm Boyle (Davitts)
7. Patrick Durcan (Castlebar Mitchels)
8. Seamus O'Shea (Breaffy)
9. Tom Parsons (Charlestown)
10. Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore)
11. Aidan O'Shea (Breaffy)
12. Diarmuid O'Connor (Ballintubber)
13. Jason Doherty (Burrishoole)
14. Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen)
15. Cillian O'Connor (Ballintubber, captain).
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14495251_10210377857460288_4928182557345926803_n.jpg?oh=b78b2856a74165238c29498b9cd7379d&oe=5866DBE7)
The subs Mayo use will be intertesting.....1.Dillon....2.Barrett (for Boyle usually). 3. Barry Moran. 4. Stephen Coen. 5. Evan Regan/Conor Loftus/Conor O Shea has been the pattern.
Anyone remember other subs named the previous day? Hennelly, Keane. Who else was named?
Quote from: ZeitChrist on September 29, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
That Macauley tackle on O'Connor was pretty shocking. I can't believe he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
Over on res dubs, it's been claimed that it was all O'Connor's fault and the sobering fact is that the writer was being serious.
Give me Hopanstand any day!
When can we expect the Dublin team to be named?
Gents, im signing off for the weekend, just want to congratulate Mayo and say to all the Mayo lads enjoy the match and enjoy the celebrations.
Well the same again for us it would seem.
Surely the DUbs will try and inject a higher tempo and pace into the game to get their runners from deep going and I think it will be how Mayo cope in the middle third and these runners from deep that will decide the game. I hope somebody up front had a man of the match type performance for us as it will be needed to have any chance this time around.
Well pints at Gills for me tomorrow win lose or draw!!
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 30, 2016, 02:13:41 PM
Gents, im signing off for the weekend, just want to congratulate Mayo and say to all the Mayo lads enjoy the match and enjoy the celebrations.
(http://blog.cucollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/agenda_signs.jpg)
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 30, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
When can we expect the Dublin team to be named?
Whenever Jim Gavin's PR consultant gives him the go ahead.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 30, 2016, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 30, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
When can we expect the Dublin team to be named?
Whenever Jim Gavin's PR consultant gives him the go ahead.
Feng Shui consultant, actually.
Only when there is positive energy in the room will the go ahead be given.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2016, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 30, 2016, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 30, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
When can we expect the Dublin team to be named?
Whenever Jim Gavin's PR consultant gives him the go ahead.
Feng Shui consultant, actually.
Only when there is positive energy in the room will the go ahead be given.
Tentatively perusing the last tattered pages of his Old Moores almanac while nervously muttering
Slick or Wets....hmnn SLICKS...no no Wets!
Bastille have joined the bandwagon and have another song out for Mayo. It's called watching through my fingers. :)
Quote from: Rudi on September 30, 2016, 06:39:07 PM
Bastille have joined the bandwagon and have another song out for Mayo. It's called watching through my fingers. :)
Should that not be.... watching (it slip) through my fingers
;)
Same again for Dubs.
DUBLIN (SF v Mayo)
1 Stephen Cluxton (Parnell's)
2 Philly McMahon (Ballymun Kickhams)
3 Jonny Cooper (Na Fianna)
4 David Byrne (Nh Olaf)
5 James McCarthy (Ballymun Kickhams)
6 Cian O'Sullivan (Kilmacud Crokes)
7 John Small (Ballymun Kickhams)
8 Brian Fenton (Raheny)
9 Michael Darragh Macauley (Ballyboden St Enda's)
10 Paul Flynn (Fingallians)
11 Kevin McManamon (St Jude's)
12 Ciarán Kilkenny (Castleknock)
13 Dean Rock (Ballymun Kickhams)
14 Diarmuid Connolly (St Vincent's)
15 Bernard Brogan (St Oliver Plunkett's/Eoghan Ruadh
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 30, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on September 29, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
That Macauley tackle on O'Connor was pretty shocking. I can't believe he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
Over on res dubs, it's been claimed that it was all O'Connor's fault and the sobering fact is that the writer was being serious.
Give me Hopanstand any day!
Lookit, when playing the Dubs, the dice are loaded , doesn't need a genius to see it.
Ffs lads, if we can't beat these bunch of coddle eating, heroin injecting, rugby playing, union jack waving, howeyehing, ready meal after training, games development officer hogging shower of baaaaastards then we can forget about ourselves as men.
Mayo by 3+
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
Ffs lads, if we can't beat these bunch of coddle eating, heroin injecting, rugby playing, union jack waving, howeyehing, ready meal after training, games development officer hogging shower of baaaaastards then we can forget about ourselves as men.
Mayo by 3+
While I am cautiously confident of victory, I must ask what is your Plan B if we lose?
Plan B is the same as it ever was muppet, the same as your plan B. Back again next year for another go
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
Ffs lads, if we can't beat these bunch of coddle eating, heroin injecting, rugby playing, union jack waving, howeyehing, ready meal after training, games development officer hogging shower of baaaaastards then we can forget about ourselves as men.
Mayo by 3+
True, but what about the "Process" ,surely nobody can overcome that. !
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2016, 01:48:37 AM
Plan B is the same as it ever was muppet, the same as your plan B. Back again next year for another go
Mayo need to do something leftfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRSnT7bxKNs
I was more confident for Mayo the first day should have won it, two OGs tho it starts to make you wonder...
Anyway, unfortunately I think the Jacks are gonna do it hopefully im wrong tho
This is a beautiful day
It is a new day
Go on to f###, Mayo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsWCYwezQ4U
Just do it
Unfortunately for Mayo, I fancy them to win.
The Western Bulldogs have just won the AFL for the first time in 62 years (as underdogs)
I just hope we get a final worthy of the occasion. Mayo are one of the best sides never to have won an AI and I'd love today to be their day. However on a dry day if Dublin avoid slipping back towards the cagey risk free football they have played in recent big games I think they will ultimately just have too much firepower and cement their legacy as the greatest Dublin side ever.
Damp enough morning here in the big schmoke, safe travelling to anyone hitting the road
Mayo's day of destiny. Thirty one counties expect great things from you. Can you deliver?
COYBIB
Not as confident about today I was the last day. Elements of surprise and complacency gone and will be difficult for our defence to play as well as a unit again. We will need a couple of goals and maybe Dubs losing a key man. Hoping Dubs confidence dented by last days performance and failure to hold on to lead and that we can hit the ground running.
Talking to Dubs supporters last night and none of the over the top confidence of a fortnight ago - very very nervous all of them. Most of our own are quietly confident that we will finish the job today - did not meet anybody who felt we left it behind us the last day. Not sure I agree unfortunately.
Heading for a walk now and then a few hours pre match jars in various watering holes.
The Guinness quality van has just done the rounds in Drumcondra, so the pints should be at their very finest for the fans.
The Dubs haven't found the g spot yet this year. Maybe they can't. Maybe the players they lost were not replaceable. Maybe they are missing something.
Tend to share Mayo Mick's opinion. While Mayo match up well with Dublin and I expect them to deliver again but Dublin's best is still better than Mayo's best. I think Mayo will go close but think they need a bit of luck or a forward to hit a very good day in front of the posts to share it. Hope it's a great day anyway and that it lives up to the occasion.
I'm a big fan of both these teams but like most others would love to see Mayo do it. Enjoy and safe travelling to all.
Mayo being widely tipped in the papers I read this morning. Big difference from a couple of weeks ago.
Lashing rain here at the moment and Mayo once again have brought the rain with them to Dublin.
Hope Ciaran K lets the ball in to the inside forward line alot..... alot quicker today.
Good luck to both teams............. hopefully one more than the other ;)
Quote from: Zulu on October 01, 2016, 10:08:34 AM
Tend to share Mayo Mick's opinion. While Mayo match up well with Dublin and I expect them to deliver again but Dublin's best is still better than Mayo's best. I think Mayo will go close but think they need a bit of luck or a forward to hit a very good day in front of the posts to share it. Hope it's a great day anyway and that it lives up to the occasion.
I'm a big fan of both these teams but like most others would love to see Mayo do it. Enjoy and safe travelling to all.
Nice comment and very sporting.
That's what differentiates GAA supporters.
Personally I hope this team do it for themselves first and then for the rest of us
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/john-o-keeffe-mayo-can-to-bring-dublin-to-the-end-of-their-road-1.2812444
John O'Keeffe: Mayo can to bring Dublin to the end of their road
Connacht side have the work ethic and know-how to finally win that elusive All-Ireland
about 7 hours ago Updated: about 6 hours ago
After the drawn All-Ireland final I couldn't help wondering about Dublin. They have been on the road now for a long time, demolishing so many opponents, that maybe it is catching up with them.
The Dubs success is largely dependent on a high-intensity running game, sustained relentlessly over 70-plus minutes, seemingly unbreakable due to the introduction of subs that all teams, including Kerry, have been unable to cope with. That enduring pace has been their chief weapon. But after the draw I felt Mayo had become the exception to Dublin rule. They are clearly capable of matching their intensity.
New generation
What the game also told me is the new generation of Dublin footballers – Brian Fenton, John Small, David Byrne and particularly Ciarán Kilkenny – have, despite their young age, become central figures in Jim Gavin's team.
Kilkenny has made himself the go-to player, he sets up the plays now, dictates the tempo, especially at wing back when James McCarthy has been absent. It is not the usual Dublin rhythm though.
Mayo managed Kilkenny quite well by forcing him laterally instead of allowing him to orchestrate the direct, offensive strategy we associate with Dublin.
Bernard Brogan is suffering the most. The slower more predictable ball inside allowed Brendan Harrison, who had a fine game, get to grips with Bernard.
Maybe Brogan, Paul Flynn and particularly Michael Darragh Macauley are showing the effects of many long hard years at the top. They are certainly not the three influential footballers we have seen in other campaigns.
So I'm leaning towards Mayo. I just feel they are in a better place mentally. They can justifiably believe they were the superior team over 78 minutes of the draw. They can take heart from how they responded at the end, especially Cillian O'Connor's three unanswered points to reel Dublin back in. And that was them playing it safe, without committing players forward as they adhered to a solid defensive structure.
On review they should see that was where their opportunity to win fell away.
Both teams will be annoyed with the number of unforced errors. The weather can be blamed but both defences were firmly in control. Just look at the amount of scoreless forwards from Bernard Brogan and Kevin McManamon to Aidan O'Shea and Diarmuid O'Connor.
Dublin's full-back line was brilliantly protected by Cian O'Sullivan. Apart from Andy Moran's goal chance, they looked impenetrable.
Treble marked
Jim Gavin can be pleased with that but Mayo should look at the potential to expose O'Sullivan's withdrawal from centre back. This led to Moran being treble marked at times. He needs more support. I think the likes of Diarmuid O'Connor or Jason Doherty must get forward and support the inside line.
Diarmuid looked tired after a long season that included the under-21s campaign. If he finds his form Mayo will profit immensely.
All this leads to Mayo creating shooting chances further out the field. They must show more composure, recycle that extra ball to create clear-cut opportunities. This requires patience and leadership.
An improved Aidan O'Shea performance remains crucial if Mayo are to finally win the All-Ireland. O'Shea is capable of being an inspirational leader. He was anything but 13 days ago. The solution, to my mind, is his role must be clearly defined. He is most effective switching predominantly from centre forward into full forward. When he drifts out the field he becomes a potential liability that can be exposed by Dublin's pace.
Aidan didn't lead the last day and even became agitated with the referee when a few calls didn't go his way. That's energy sapping behaviour that must be eradicated for Mayo to benefit from his enormous power.
That is how Dublin can be exposed but Stephen Rochford must also devise a plan to track Fenton's incisive runs from midfield. Because that's how Dublin will create a goal. The Mayo midfielders lack pace to stay with him so Kevin McLoughlin or even Donal Vaughan may need to pick him up.
Diarmuid Connolly is of similar importance. I could see Connolly best serving Dublin as an inside forward. Drag Lee Keegan out of his comfort zone at wing back. The reverse argument is that Keegan needs to contribute to Mayo moving forward. Perhaps both these tactical switches will happen and the pair will part ways.
Running game
But if Dublin's running game isn't checked, as Mayo did before, then Fenton, Small, James McCarthy and Connolly will bring the Dubs pattern – or as Gavin calls it: the process – to bear on this contest. We know they can dismantle any team.
It is the rhythm of Dublin that must be disrupted. Because all that passing over the shoulder at pace leads to frees within Dean Rock's previously unerring range. If Rock rediscovers the accuracy we had seen all summer then Dublin can pull away.
Surely McManamon will have a better day or Paul Mannion, Eoghan O'Gara and Paddy Andrews will prove the difference late in the game.
Yet I'm still leaning towards Mayo. They have shown the work ethic and know-how to finally win that elusive All-Ireland. We know this Dublin team, as they showed when misfiring so badly in the first match, will not release Sam Maguire without a bitter struggle.
But Mayo, just.
I read somewhere that the Dubs won their last 3 sams by a combined total of 5 points.
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 01:35:01 PM
I read somewhere that the Dubs won their last 3 sams by a combined total of 5 points.
If wishing and wanting could deliver an All Ireland, Mayo are already over the line.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 01, 2016, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 01:35:01 PM
I read somewhere that the Dubs won their last 3 sams by a combined total of 5 points.
If wishing and wanting could deliver an All Ireland, Mayo are already over the line.
You would expect the Dubs to win but the aura of invincibility took a knock the last day.
I remember the 2006 hurling final. Cork were going for the 3 in a row. It was a titanic battle. Kilkenny had more energy.
And that was basically the end for Cork.
After a horrible morning, the weather is fine in Dublin now.
Hope the rain stays away.
The countdown has begun and I don't know what to feel. It does seem different somehow to the lead in to other finals in the past. No time to bother about lack of bottle- that certainly won't be an issue. Luck can be capricious and may well decide the result- that's the one variable that can't be quantified in any way and we just have to await the outcome.
I hope thoughts of that blasted curse don't arise in any player's mind. The scéal that a cranky oul' priest lost his temper at the carry on of Mayo supporters as a motorcade of revellers passed by is a figment of somebody's imagination.
According to Padraig Carney, and he should know, there were no cavalcades of any sort. People just didn't do them for any reason back then.
So it's gonna be 15 v 15 and there's nowhere to hide for anyone so inclined. I pray that this team carries no jibbers- it's 100% effort from all or nothing.
I am hopeful: Stephen Rochford can read a game and react to what's going on on the field. He outmaneuvered Jim Gavin, one of the very best, in the first game and there's no reason to fear that he cannot do so again.
Feck it, there's always Old Moore's Almanac if everything else goes wrong.
Keep the faith!
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2016, 03:33:25 PM
I hope thoughts of that blasted curse don't arise in any player's mind. The scéal that a cranky oul' priest lost his temper at the carry on of Mayo supporters as a motorcade of revellers passed by is a figment of somebody's imagination.
There is a curse, Mayo will never win a game in September in Croke Park.
Today is October.
Irish independent reporting that O'Connor is injured and won't start. Vey bad news for Mayo if true. They won't win without him.
Could mean Hennelly in for Clarke to cover frees. So much for Clarke being a lucky mascot for Mayo.
If Clarke doesn't start I presume it's a injury as he seem to struggle with a injury late on the last day.
The great Paddy Prendergast.
Lovely little piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2l09WUe0Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2l09WUe0Q)
Don't like the look of them clouds...
Changes to selected teams are good for Dublin crazy for Mayo. Play your in form players.
Hennelly practicing his free-taking.
Interesting...
They have to meet Michael Dee again?
Just throw it in ffs!
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 04:44:36 PM
Hennelly practicing his free-taking.
Interesting...
Means they're afraid COC'll be gone in 20 minutes.
His range outside 40m isn't great when fit nevermind when filled with whatever concoction the Mayo 'medics' have injected him with to get him on the field.
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2016, 04:43:09 PM
Changes to selected teams are good for Dublin crazy for Mayo. Play your in form players.
MDMA and BB dropped. Very interesting
McCarthy has a problem with C O'C obviously. It's time to put an end to that handshake crap.
That was an obvious black card.
How's that not a black card? If it's a free it's a black card!
Small should have got black. Both goalkeepers have fecked up short kick outs.
Clear black card. Ridiculous refereeing.
That was the acid test for Deegan and he failed.
How on earth was a black card not given? Deegan has bottled it already.
Very bad missed black card there by Maurice Deegan.
Mayo settling after nightmare start.
I think that is Joe McQuillan in a Maurice Deegan mask.
What a goal!
Great goal
Small should be away, these rules are a f**king joke. There's no real difference between what happened there and what this rule was brought in to stop, ie tripping a player up to stop a clear scoring chance.
If that was a Tyrone man...
Cooper got a belt after the Mayo goal that went unpunished. Then gets a black card for that?
Very soft black card for Cooper there.
Is cullen still involved for Dublin? See him sitting with the subs.
That was a Tony Davis decision.
Black card lottery again. Farcical.
A lottery but cooper pulled his leg. He bottled the first one and likes to level it up. Mayo beware
Still a black card though. Clearly caught the leg with both arms.
f**k me just heard from VMS that there's no menace in this game or negativity. Bullshit. Seen a clear trip of a man and a cowardly off the ball charge on Cooper. It's f**king great to see.
Deegan is all over the shop.
Deegan is out of his depth.
If Hennelly's inclusion wasn't forced by injury, it's an awful decision. I'd be much more confident with Clarke in goals if I was a Mayo man.
That is a joke, Deegan fell for that.
Can't help but feel that Deegan was waiting for a chance to put manners on Lee Keegan.
No foul there. Not Deegan's best day.
Shocking decision. Dublin have had a huge ref bias in this championship and play them all.
Comnolly is a disgrace to the association . Utterly.
Small has to get a black for that.
The ex Dubs did their jobs earlier in the week getting Deegan against Keegan... Shocking decision!!
Connolly a disgrace waving about imaginary cards like that!!
Yellows for everyone lol.
Deegan bottled that. He's having an absolute nightmare.
What has coc to do to get a card.?
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 05:40:13 PM
Small has to get a black for that.
Should have been red.
Absurd to think that the two best refs in the country are effectively ruled out of this because they work in Dublin like half the population of Ireland.
That's a shocking effort.
Deegan needs to get a handle on this game in the second half or it will be a farce.
This reminds me of two t**ker families fighting in a car park.
Deegan having a nightmare here having said that ita going off all over the place!
Hard to see anything but a Dublin win at this stage!
Small swung a punch, doesn't matter if he connected or not. Should have been red.
I hope Deegan sees a few highlights at half time - he needs to balance this out.
Deegan can't handle a game. No confidence or control over things.
Can Deegan be subbed off at half time?
Dublin 4 points from play Mayo 1-2
Quote from: clarshack on October 01, 2016, 05:45:27 PM
Small swung a punch, doesn't matter if he connected or not. Should have been red.
Correct.
Deegan slows down the game too much, might as well as have a live video ref to review an 'event', it probably would be twice as fast as a Deegan conference with his officials.
Deegan filled the togs. Was rightly reaching for red and switched to yellow. Small should have had a black earlier and he bottled it again.
When the rules in place aren't a serious disincentive to not foul, you're going to get games like this.
Imagine if every free was worth 2 points how the game would be improved.
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2016, 05:42:44 PM
What has coc to do to get a card.?
Indeed he gets away with murder...if he was from Tyrone...
If he was, he'd be a lot cuter and wouldn't get caught.
Also RTE's camerawork has been poor especially on kickouts.
Don't think Small is going to be called up to the Irish Boxers anytime soon with wild swings like that.
So there is a game of football going on and all everybody can talk about is the ref!!!!! And both teams want him to win the match for them rather than go and win it themselves!!!!
If Clarke isn't injured, get him on.
Hennelly is having a nightmare and he won't score you any long-range frees either.
Not sure who's been worse? Maurice Deegan or Canning and Carney on commentary.
odds on small scoring the winning point ?
Who pearl harboured Parsons?
From Dont Foul
QuoteRock 100% (0-08 from 8) ExpPts +1.96
Rest 40% (0-02 from 5) ExpPts -0.28
QuoteMayo 58% (1-06 from 12) ExpPts +1.74
Dublin 77% (0-10 from 13) ExpPts +1.68
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 05:44:41 PM
Absurd to think that the two best refs in the country are effectively ruled out of this because they work in Dublin like half the population of Ireland.
Kinsella reffed the replay between these two teams last year and it was a classic. Disgraceful he's not out there today.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 01, 2016, 05:54:06 PM
Not sure who's been worse? Maurice Deegan or Canning and Carney on commentary.
The answer is always Carney and Canning!
now now lads it could be worst, T Carr could be on commentry
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 01, 2016, 05:54:06 PM
Not sure who's been worse? Maurice Deegan or Canning and Carney on commentary.
true - anyone who thinks that mccarthy wasnt trying to hurt vaughan was not a back :) - no malice my hole.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 01, 2016, 05:54:06 PM
Not sure who's been worse? Maurice Deegan or Canning and Carney on commentary.
You don't automatically mute them - weird.
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 01, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
When the rules in place aren't a serious disincentive to not foul, you're going to get games like this.
Imagine if every free was worth 2 points how the game would be improved.
Doesn't mean shite that.
More likely you'd play the ball around and around the blanket until you can draw the free and discourage players from having a pot-shot, they'd only have a go at shooting when unmarked and near guaranteed the score. A heightened example of what C Kilkenny does now, he was in a scorable position twice in that 1st half and shoveled it off because he had a man within 10 yards.
Dives and forwards pulling in the opposite man would all be commoner too.
The thing to remember is Mayo aren't playing as well as they did the last day BUT they're in a better position at half-time.
The Dublin forward line is no better than it was.
Mayo need to settle down and just go for it.
There's no room for any more indiscipline.
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2016, 05:57:11 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 01, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
When the rules in place aren't a serious disincentive to not foul, you're going to get games like this.
Imagine if every free was worth 2 points how the game would be improved.
Doesn't mean shite that.
More likely you'd play the ball around and around the blanket until you can draw the free and discourage players from having a pot-shot, they'd only have a go at shooting when unmarked and near guaranteed the score. A heightened example of what C Kilkenny does now, he was in a scorable position twice in that 1st half and shoveled it off because he had a man within 10 yards.
Dives and forwards pulling in the opposite man would all be commoner too.
Probably - I'm just sick of the way the game is going now -
Quote from: SCFC on October 01, 2016, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 05:44:41 PM
Absurd to think that the two best refs in the country are effectively ruled out of this because they work in Dublin like half the population of Ireland.
Kinsella reffed the replay between these two teams last year and it was a classic. Disgraceful he's not out there today.
Kinsella is shite. Gough is the best in the country by a long distance.
From the sky replays was it not Connolly shouldering Vaughan off the ball as he was going up the filed not all start the skirmish at the end, hows that not a black?
Conor O'Shea?
Dunno about that.
Why is Cluxton going long so much?
Stuff of nightmares for hennelly
That black card was worth it if Clarke is fit.
That was incredibly stupid.
hennelly off is a boost to Mayo.
To be honest there is no curse or hex on Mayo : today is utter insanity by management .
Hennelly had an absolute shocker. Funny thing is, if Connolly missed then Mayo would've been better off. But what a penalty it was.
And 65 becomes 66...
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 06:08:02 PM
That black card was worth it if Clarke is fit.
True
Quote from: screenexile on October 01, 2016, 05:41:57 PM
Connolly a disgrace waving about imaginary cards like that!!
I think you'll find Big Aido introduced that to the GAA v Kerry in 2014
Mayo starting to look a bit tired.
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 01, 2016, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2016, 05:57:11 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 01, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
When the rules in place aren't a serious disincentive to not foul, you're going to get games like this.
Imagine if every free was worth 2 points how the game would be improved.
Doesn't mean shite that.
More likely you'd play the ball around and around the blanket until you can draw the free and discourage players from having a pot-shot, they'd only have a go at shooting when unmarked and near guaranteed the score. A heightened example of what C Kilkenny does now, he was in a scorable position twice in that 1st half and shoveled it off because he had a man within 10 yards.
Dives and forwards pulling in the opposite man would all be commoner too.
Probably - I'm just sick of the way the game is going now -
Sure we're immune to change and all we give a f**k about is our own. The game today is riddled with negativity bitchiness and moaning at the ref but sure no one wants to tackle it when it's your own. A radical well-thought overhaul would be nice but sure the only voices in town are the Croke Park pigs at the trough and the shrieking Mary's of Spillane and Brolly.
Lack of pace up front killing Mayo.
How have a top level team not got a long range left footed free taker
Come on now Mayo, go BIG or go home.
Use Barry Moran.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 06:24:27 PM
Come on now Mayo, go BIG or go home.
Use Barry Moran.
They've clearly went home.
Difference between sides is Dublin bring on young Costello, Mayo bring on auld Dillion. Game changers.
Aidan O'Shea blatantly throws the ball right in front of Deegan and he does nothing.
As poor a refereeing performance as you'll see.
lost his cards past 10 mins, what type foul the swing around by brogan taking the man to the ground, no yellow or black ??
Seamie O'Shea has been very good today.
The little brother has done well since he came on as well.
Seamie O Shea is a f**king animal, best player on the pitch.
Paul Flynn has been brutal for the last 2 years.
Dublin have blown some chances to finish this.
If only Mayo had Keegan on the pitch now.
6 minutes added time.
Mayo are fit
Costello has had an amazing impact considering how tight Mayo have been at the back.
Deegan trying for another replay?
Should been kicking the ball to moran alo earlier
What's the point of bringing Barry Moran on and not kicking the ball into him?
Mix it up a bit instead of trying to charge down the middle every single time.
Fitzsimmons could have been the hero there. ;D
Jaysus Fitzsimons you have to kick that over the bar.
What the hell was Fitzsimons at, he could have fisted that over.
Jaysus, hard not to feel for CoC there.
He should scored that, bad miss as he took plenty of steps in from where he was originally fouled
Lost on the line.
Harsh but true.
Mayo you're just not good enough to win an AI. Simple as that.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2016, 06:45:58 PM
Mayo you're just not good enough to win an AI. Simple as that.
It's like a formula they can't solve
even with the keeper mistake, Mayo need 2 more scoring quality forwards, if they had them the day they may have won. I be playing the younger O`Shea midfield next year, serious mobility. Seamus O`Shea best player on the pitch the day. Mayo be around abouts next year again.
Lucky lucky Dublin. My heart goes out to Mayo the worst and most heartbreaking loss of any All Ireland final before for them.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2016, 06:47:52 PM
even with the keeper mistake, Mayo need 2 more scoring quality forwards, if they had them the day they may have won. I be playing the younger O`Shea midfield next year, serious mobility. Seamus O`Shea best player on the pitch the day. Mayo be around abouts next year again.
The younger O'Shea being on the panel at all is a questionable choice.
The keeper today was the equivalent of the two OGs the last day.
That's the sweetest win since 2011.
Hope the front liners dont come back until next March and with McCaffrey back it'll give a boost.
Commiserations Mayo - just that bit short again. You're so close, it'll happen.
Keegan call brutal. Connolly a great footballer but .....
Mayo are definitely the people's champion, Dublin are the corporate champions holding their titles due to the dodgy refereeing of Maurice Deegan. On another note did anyone else think Dean Rock's free in the 38th minute went wide?
Jesus would someone shut Canning and Carthy up!! Good god rte, these dinosaurs are awful not to mention Cahill on Sunday game!! Mayo battled hard but shot themselves in the foot so many times. Ref was hard on them. O'Shea gets fouled a lot but gets no frees cos he is big so is expected to take it. Costello made some impact.... Thought Mayo shaded both games but too reliant on O Connor..
Maurice Deegan will never have to pay for a pint in Dublin again. Dublin Deegan.
Intense rivalry and nothing in it at the end after 2 games, except a scorable missed free.
Maybe next year for Mayo, the Dubs earned this one the hard way.
Mayo hit 1-5 from play while Dublin hit 6 points.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 01, 2016, 06:53:19 PM
Maurice Deegan will never have to pay for a pint in Dublin again. Dublin Deegan.
Disagree . Mayo inflicted their own wounds today .
I'm glad Cluxton didn't name all the backroom team, he'd be there all evening.
It's taken 5 years and Mayo still haven't found those 2 forwards needed to win Sam. Until that happens, the wait will go on.
Quote from: heffo on October 01, 2016, 06:51:14 PM
That's the sweetest win since 2011.
Hope the front liners dont come back until next March and with McCaffrey back it'll give a boost.
Commiserations Mayo - just that bit short again. You're so close, it'll happen.
Potential retirements, Heffo?
Hard luck Mayo! ;D
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2016, 06:57:11 PM
It's taken 5 years and Mayo still haven't found those 2 forwards needed to win Sam. Until that happens, the wait will go on.
If it wasn't for Cormac Reilly in 2014 and Maurice Deegan today they'd have done it.
A joyless enough occasion now. The GAA created a monster and their investment paid off.
Quote from: ashman on October 01, 2016, 06:55:51 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 01, 2016, 06:53:19 PM
Maurice Deegan will never have to pay for a pint in Dublin again. Dublin Deegan.
Disagree . Mayo inflicted their own wounds today .
Deegan was poor but the easy thing for Mayo fans to do now would be to blame him for the loss.
I feel Rochford over thought things for today.
Whatever about making a switch in a strategic outfield position like full-back or centre-back, you don't change your keeper unless you have a very strong reason for doing so.
Quote from: ashman on October 01, 2016, 06:59:16 PM
A joyless enough occasion now. The GAA created a monster and their investment paid off.
Quality of the finals the last few years have been brutal.
Would love to see the stats on how many times the ball was kickpassed further than 20 metres.
Goalkeeping error ultimately decided it. Silly decision by mgmt
Change of keeper cost Mayo dearly what was Mr Rochford thinking.
Hard luck Mayo. This was Mayos big chance and they didn't take it.
From Dont Foul
QuoteMayo 65% (1-14 from 23) ExpPts +1.76
Dublin 62% (1-15 from 26) ExpPts +0.50
Dublin got 1-9 from 10 deadball attempts while Mayo got 8 out of 9.
That means Mayo got 7 scores from 14 attempts while Dublin only managed 6 from 16.
Overall 13 scores from 30 shots in play between the two teams compared to 18 out of 19 in terms of deadballs.
God help us but Mayowestros will never win Sam.
Haven't got the cutting edge up front. How many times did they give sloppy passes when going forward in the second half.
What did they bring Hennelly back for?
O'Connor should have tried a short one into the centre and see what happens.
Jaysus we badly need a new team to win to bring some excitement to Final day.
Word on street was that internal pressure from certain quarters insisted on goalie switch. Rochford bowed to their pressure.
probably not articulating this well never understand hoe brolly can love the gaa and be so harsh/personal about individuals.
Hate to see late Keeper switches, they create way more bad feeling than an outfield switch & can have terrible results - today being one of those days.
Not as brutal as when Monaghan bypassed the sub keeper to play Hughes in nets in the USFC a few years back!
Cluxton thanking the Dublin fans for travelling the country to support them :D :D :D
Comic genius.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 07:00:46 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 01, 2016, 06:55:51 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 01, 2016, 06:53:19 PM
Maurice Deegan will never have to pay for a pint in Dublin again. Dublin Deegan.
Disagree . Mayo inflicted their own wounds today .
Deegan was poor but the easy thing for Mayo fans to do now would be to blame him for the loss.
I feel Rochford over thought things for today.
Whatever about making a switch in a strategic outfield position like full-back or centre-back, you don't change your keeper unless you have a very strong reason for doing so.
Kinda agree with you here.
We were in hard luck with a few calls the ref made but such is the nature of the game today, no referee could be expected to give a flawless performance.
Rochford may have had good reasons for not playing Clarke but if was purely a tactical decision, he'd needs to get his head boiled in piss.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 01, 2016, 07:06:04 PM
Word on street was that internal pressure from certain quarters insisted on goalie switch. Rochford bowed to their pressure.
Please tell me you're joking.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 01, 2016, 07:06:28 PM
Hate to see late Keeper switches, they create way more bad feeling than an outfield switch & can have terrible results - today being one of those days.
Not as brutal as when Monaghan bypassed the sub keeper to play Hughes in nets in the USFC a few years back!
;D
Brutal for Armagh that day, they lost by about 25 points.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 07:12:44 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 01, 2016, 07:06:04 PM
Word on street was that internal pressure from certain quarters insisted on goalie switch. Rochford bowed to their pressure.
Please tell me you're joking.
Hennelly is a Breaffy lad just like the big hairy Bears so..
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 07:12:44 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 01, 2016, 07:06:04 PM
Word on street was that internal pressure from certain quarters insisted on goalie switch. Rochford bowed to their pressure.
Please tell me you're joking.
Well, I didn't make it up. could be conspiracy nonsense but we'll wait to see what our Mayo friends say. But at basic level to change your goalie when he had s fine first match is astonishing
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 01, 2016, 07:07:21 PM
Cluxton thanking the Dublin fans for travelling the country to support them :D :D :D
Comic genius.
Some of them had to travel over 5Km to games!
Quote from: bennydorano on October 01, 2016, 07:06:28 PM
Not as brutal as when Monaghan bypassed the sub keeper to play Hughes in nets in the USFC a few years back!
At least he had a good game though!
The biggest single problem with football is the standard of refereeing and support. That was abysmal refereeing today for both sides I might add. Absolute zero consistency on decisions today. There seems to be zero will to rectify either. The black card is just pure farce at this stage.
I felt sorry for Maurice today.
It was like he realised about 30 seconds after every decision that he'd got it wrong so it influenced the next decision he made.
Like a domino effect.
He was constantly thinking about what had happened before instead of concentrating on what was happening now.
Quote from: Halfquarter on October 01, 2016, 02:01:26 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
Ffs lads, if we can't beat these bunch of coddle eating, heroin injecting, rugby playing, union jack waving, howeyehing, ready meal after training, games development officer hogging shower of baaaaastards then we can forget about ourselves as men.
Mayo by 3+
True, but what about the "Process" ,surely nobody can overcome that. !
The Process strikes back.
RTE and others must have watched a different game than me if they thought that scrappy bad tempered contest was incredible. Dublin won because of a better bench and a management team that made less mistakes.
Mayo when they get over this disappointment will know they will be there or thereabouts again next year. Dublins consistency and success is to be admired these last six years however they fall over the line in All Ireland finals without ever impressing.
was a great second half
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 01, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
RTE and others must have watched a different game than me if they thought that scrappy bad tempered contest was incredible. Dublin won because of a better bench and a management team that made less mistakes
Absolutely. As far as actual football went today's match was pure sh!te bar the odd decent point.
Keegans loss was huge and in the end Dublin had more on the bench who could come on and genuinely affect the game.
The GAA are getting bang for their buck.
Quote from: tyroneman on October 01, 2016, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 01, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
RTE and others must have watched a different game than me if they thought that scrappy bad tempered contest was incredible. Dublin won because of a better bench and a management team that made less mistakes
Absolutely. As far as actual football went today's match was pure sh!te bar the odd decent point.
Keegans loss was huge and in the end Dublin had more on the bench who could come on and genuinely affect the game.
Incredible drama both days. If that was shite football (and I'm not saying it was a classic) then what sort of dross did we watch most of the year. I'd watch them go at it again for sure. Wouldn't say the same about Tyrone/Donegal this year as an example or Kerry Donegal final in 2014. It's very hard to keep us happy!
That was sweet. Just heading back to Camden st from croke park
Quote from: haze on October 01, 2016, 08:12:57 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on October 01, 2016, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 01, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
RTE and others must have watched a different game than me if they thought that scrappy bad tempered contest was incredible. Dublin won because of a better bench and a management team that made less mistakes
Absolutely. As far as actual football went today's match was pure sh!te bar the odd decent point.
Keegans loss was huge and in the end Dublin had more on the bench who could come on and genuinely affect the game.
Incredible drama both days. If that was shite football (and I'm not saying it was a classic) then what sort of dross did we watch most of the year. I'd watch them go at it again for sure. Wouldn't say the same about Tyrone/Donegal this year as an example or Kerry Donegal final in 2014. It's very hard to keep us happy!
incredible drama, real edge of seat stuff. would have loved another 20mins of that in extra time. gutted for mayo, it was there for the winning and its a shame everyone will talking about the keeper situation. well done dublin, some team and more importantly some squad.
Not only did the keeper cost them the penalty he is also responsible for Keegan getting sent off. 2 huge mistakes cost mayo dear. A red card to both teams would have sorted out alot of the nonsense
FFS Mayo, would you ever cease with the kamikaze defensive efforts (sorry, you don't need me to fling salt all over the joint but... BUT!).
Dublin were good enough to do the necessary, against a mighty Mayo rearguard, and deservedly so. Well done lads. :)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 01, 2016, 07:31:28 PM
The biggest single problem with football is the standard of refereeing and support. That was abysmal refereeing today for both sides I might add. Absolute zero consistency on decisions today. There seems to be zero will to rectify either. The black card is just pure farce at this stage.
It's a poor performance when decisions are ponderous, erroneous and the game is interfered with. He dealt well with the outbreak of handbags and the lid was kept on the pot for the rest of the game. The 2nd half flowed better than the first and that's as good as it gets in the GAA. a flowing game, played at the highest level, in an intense atmosphere.
You will never get consistency, it's an impossible moan. Refs are different, not the same.
This is an amateur game, in order to get closer to a consistency, you would have to implement a professional set up where a ref's performance is analysed in a professional set up, in the the days after the game by the collective group of elite refs.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 01, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
RTE and others must have watched a different game than me if they thought that scrappy bad tempered contest was incredible. Dublin won because of a better bench and a management team that made less mistakes.
Mayo when they get over this disappointment will know they will be there or thereabouts again next year. Dublins consistency and success is to be admired these last six years however they fall over the line in All Ireland finals without ever impressing.
Some fellas are hard to please. It was scrappy and bad tempered no doubt, but after watching a lot of pedestrian games this year full of lateral hand passing and almost non existence tackles it was great to watch two teams go hell for leather. Some of the shooting and passing was a bit wayward but it was always exciting.
Joe Brolly comes out with some nonsense some times, but he wrote last week that Dublin should put Connolly into full forward, because Keegan's fouling would be exposed, whereas he gets away with a lot more further out without conceding a score. It may have been the keeper's fault for Keegan's black card, but it was notable that Connolly had briefly changed to full forward. Pundits seemed to think Keegan had to pull him down to stop certain goal, but I thought there were at least two Mayo defenders closing in. More a case of Keegan doing what came naturally, but being exposed when it was so close to goal.
Quote from: heffo on October 01, 2016, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 01, 2016, 05:41:57 PM
Connolly a disgrace waving about imaginary cards like that!!
I think you'll find Big Aido introduced that to the GAA v Kerry in 2014
Don't know if it's possible to find out who introduced it at this stage.
Regardless ,it is sickening to see players waving imaginary cards .
Thought this was an entertaining game, fair play to both sides. Dublin butchered a number of easy chances. Costello stole the show, a class act. Surely Mannion, Costello and McHugh will get more of a chance next year. Mayo did well and possibly deserved a draw, best team never to win an All Ireland. Keggan, Boyle and Higgins are utter class.
Feel really sorry for Mayo, decisions went against them it's true, but the worst decision of all was to change the keeper. I'm gutted for him as well though. Don't know what Mayo has to do to win an All Ireland and unfortunately with Kerry winning three minor titles in a row, I feel their chance hay have gone for now
Quote from: Nigel White on October 01, 2016, 09:29:37 PM
Feel really sorry for Mayo, decisions went against them it's true, but the worst decision of all was to change the keeper. I'm gutted for him as well though. Don't know what Mayo has to do to win an All Ireland and unfortunately with Kerry winning three minor titles in a row, I feel their chance hay have gone for now
Minor titles. Give me a break.
was blown away with the S&C of the players, its reaching scary standards, however the refereeing is shocking and the inconsistency of it lead to the scrappy end to the first half, Felt dublin let the pressure get to them, but just had forwards with more natural ability and better bench. With mayo, no sympathy, game was there twice and they didn't take it. The change of the keepers backfired, and bar frees from O'Connor most of there forward play was gutless - Aidan O'Shea hasn't an arse in his trousers, twice he was needed in a fortnight and was found wanting, his bother was seismic after a poor show last time round as was boyle and the corner backs - Mayo don't have the quality of forwards to score from play 3 or 4 times a game and won't win sam until they do
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2016, 09:25:12 PM
Thought this was an entertaining game, fair play to both sides. Dublin butchered a number of easy chances. Costello stole the show, a class act. Surely Mannion, Costello and McHugh will get more of a chance next year. Mayo did well and possibly deserved a draw, best team never to win an All Ireland. Keggan, Boyle and Higgins are utter class.
The latter two will leave a massive void to fill. Brilliant players true leaders that gave their all for their county.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
Lucky lucky Dublin. My heart goes out to Mayo the worst and most heartbreaking loss of any All Ireland final before for them.
In what way were Dublin "lucky"? Some of the frees Mayo were given towards the end of the game were scandalously soft. The most heartbreaking final loss for Mayo is still the one against Meath and I would argue the more recent Donegal one is up there as well. Both were infinitely more winnable games than against this Dublin outfit.
Feeling pretty sick after that.
Jinxy nailed it regarding Deehan so I won't add to that.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
I felt sorry for Maurice today.
It was like he realised about 30 seconds after every decision that he'd got it wrong so it influenced the next decision he made.
Like a domino effect.
He was constantly thinking about what had happened before instead of concentrating on what was happening now.
Those questioning the keeper swap, Clarke had some major wobbles in the draw. However it was too late in the season to swap goalkeepers. Brave decision but ultimately probably the wrong one.
More critical was the knee to Vaughan's head and the Keegan black card. After that the only player capable of playing our running game without always turing the ball over was Paddy Durcan. Feel very sorry for Cillian, clearly not remotely fit and still only missed one.
Congrats to the Dubs. I thought Cooper was very unlucky, Small very, very lucky, but the forwards that came off the bench made the difference, especially Costello.
First time in a long while when both sets of supporters agreed that the ref was atrocious.
Sorry for Mayo but jeez Dublin should had been 2/3 up front before the free kick
Though Michael darragh was excellent when he came on
Really think that connolly is all that is wrong in the modern game. Have no time for him.
Dublin well done tbf you really stepped in up and under Gavin are a well oiled machine who can only get better
Quote from: Scoring Zone on October 01, 2016, 09:35:30 PM
was blown away with the S&C of the players, its reaching scary standards, however the refereeing is shocking and the inconsistency of it lead to the scrappy end to the first half, Felt dublin let the pressure get to them, but just had forwards with more natural ability and better bench. With mayo, no sympathy, game was there twice and they didn't take it. The change of the keepers backfired, and bar frees from O'Connor most of there forward play was gutless - Aidan O'Shea hasn't an arse in his trousers, twice he was needed in a fortnight and was found wanting, his bother was seismic after a poor show last time round as was boyle and the corner backs - Mayo don't have the quality of forwards to score from play 3 or 4 times a game and won't win sam until they do
S&C to the hilt and kick passing non-existant, any of the good footballing champion teams of the past would have made shite of Mayo and Dublin e.g. Down, Galway, Tyrone, various Kerry
Vaughan was no loss to Mayo. Coen is a way smarter footballer and really should be starting over Vaughan if that's really the choice Rochford is making each game. For Keegan read Cooper for Dublin.
Fact is subs won the game for Dublin, same as most had predicted. Costello is one of the most skilled footballers in the country and the luxury of having him spending most of the summer on clean-up duty in games tells the story of why Dublin have won 4/6.
Dublin have now moved into the undisputed #2 position on the list of all-time great teams. They have every chance of making a run at the five in a row that eluded the one team still ahead of them.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on October 01, 2016, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
Lucky lucky Dublin. My heart goes out to Mayo the worst and most heartbreaking loss of any All Ireland final before for them.
In what way were Dublin "lucky"? Some of the frees Mayo were given towards the end of the game were scandalously soft. The most heartbreaking final loss for Mayo is still the one against Meath and I would argue the more recent Donegal one is up there as well. Both were infinitely more winnable games than against this Dublin outfit.
You can watch the match back after you are done with all the celebrations and you might agree it was a lucky Dublin win. 2012 final was not heartbreaking as Donegal won that final early and this final surpasses 1996 for heartbreak for Mayo IMO and worse of all the way Dublin played today and two weeks ago meant both games were very winnable for Mayo.
What age are you Syfín?
Probably around 20? so how in hell can you compare Dublin 2011-16 to any teams beyond Kerry and Tyrone of the Noughties.
Football crying out for some new heroes.
Could Mayo not scour the migrant communities in Galway and Dublin for those 2 forwards they need?
Larry Finnerty's son for example.
The suits that those guys wear on the Sunday game have fcuk all to do with Gaelic football
Quote from: muppet on October 01, 2016, 09:53:04 PM
Feeling pretty sick after that.
Jinxy nailed it regarding Deehan so I won't add to that.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
I felt sorry for Maurice today.
It was like he realised about 30 seconds after every decision that he'd got it wrong so it influenced the next decision he made.
Like a domino effect.
He was constantly thinking about what had happened before instead of concentrating on what was happening now.
Those questioning the keeper swap, Clarke had some major wobbles in the draw. However it was too late in the season to swap goalkeepers. Brave decision but ultimately probably the wrong one.
More critical was the knee to Vaughan's head and the Keegan black card. After that the only player capable of playing our running game without always turing the ball over was Paddy Durcan. Feel very sorry for Cillian, clearly not remotely fit and still only missed one.
Congrats to the Dubs. I thought Cooper was very unlucky, Small very, very lucky, but the forwards that came off the bench made the difference, especially Costello.
Which was badly handled again, I might add.
We need to learn from the mistakes of other sports and protect players at all costs.
Quote from: tiempo on October 01, 2016, 10:02:21 PM
Quote from: Scoring Zone on October 01, 2016, 09:35:30 PM
was blown away with the S&C of the players, its reaching scary standards, however the refereeing is shocking and the inconsistency of it lead to the scrappy end to the first half, Felt dublin let the pressure get to them, but just had forwards with more natural ability and better bench. With mayo, no sympathy, game was there twice and they didn't take it. The change of the keepers backfired, and bar frees from O'Connor most of there forward play was gutless - Aidan O'Shea hasn't an arse in his trousers, twice he was needed in a fortnight and was found wanting, his bother was seismic after a poor show last time round as was boyle and the corner backs - Mayo don't have the quality of forwards to score from play 3 or 4 times a game and won't win sam until they do
S&C to the hilt and kick passing non-existant, any of the good footballing champion teams of the past would have made shite of Mayo and Dublin e.g. Down, Galway, Tyrone, various Kerry
No... You are completely incorrect!
The black card advocated by pundits has made a mockery of Gaelic football.
Well I'm back home and filling up on alcohol. This was a very tough day and one that was always a probability once we heard the teams. The dub campaign against Keegan worked a treat and Deegan was a coward to fall for it.
Dublin had the better bench and that was key though. If we hadn't thrown them about 1-8 in scorable frees, we would have made it tougher on them.
I have to agree that he gave us very soft frees in the second half but the damage was already done at that stage.
AOS has never played well against the Dubs. They have his number.
Well done to the dubs and they have a magnificent team.
Back to back League Div 1, Leinster & AI - I'll take that.
Quote from: Chimley on October 01, 2016, 10:40:38 PM
Well I'm back home and filling up on alcohol. This was a very tough day and one that was always a probability once we heard the teams. The dub campaign against Keegan worked a treat and Deegan was a coward to fall for it.
Dublin had the better bench and that was key though. If we hadn't thrown them about 1-8 in scorable frees, we would have made it tougher on them.
I have to agree that he gave us very soft frees in the second half but the damage was already done at that stage.
AOS has never played well against the Dubs. They have his number.
Well done to the dubs and they have a magnificent team.
You sir are an idiot and deluded. If Keegan doesn't foul Connolly he is one on one with the keeper for a goal. Mayo's defender's were magnificent but their forwards were shite. ThAt's why they lost. Minnows
Quote from: dublin7 on October 01, 2016, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: Chimley on October 01, 2016, 10:40:38 PM
Well I'm back home and filling up on alcohol. This was a very tough day and one that was always a probability once we heard the teams. The dub campaign against Keegan worked a treat and Deegan was a coward to fall for it.
Dublin had the better bench and that was key though. If we hadn't thrown them about 1-8 in scorable frees, we would have made it tougher on them.
I have to agree that he gave us very soft frees in the second half but the damage was already done at that stage.
AOS has never played well against the Dubs. They have his number.
Well done to the dubs and they have a magnificent team.
You sir are an idiot and deluded. If Keegan doesn't foul Connolly he is one on one with the keeper for a goal. Mayo's defender's were magnificent but their forwards were shite. ThAt's why they lost. Minnows
If it was me, I'd be happy that my team had got out of jail with another AI but you seem to be happier fighting with fans of the losing team. I congratulated your team on winning, but you seem like an asshole so f@ck off.
I thought he was you. ;)
Dear God. Only seeing Keegan's black card now: http://dlvr.it/MMzVLR (http://dlvr.it/MMzVLR)
Keegan caught by the bad kick out, grabs Connolly but lets go, then Connolly runs with the Aiden O'Shea style arms out for a few steps and then falls over. Just about a free in for the grab of the jersey. No card whatsoever though.
Aidan O'Shea was running around like a headless chicken for most of the game
Cillian O'Connor constantly talking to the ref
Kamikaze stuff today from our point of view. Thought it was a pisstake when I got the call re the switch on the way up.
Congrats to Dublin.
Quote from: Kurtz on October 01, 2016, 11:20:15 PM
Aidan O'Shea was running around like a headless chicken for most of the game
Cillian O'Connor constantly talking to the ref
The feckers.
The sooner we realise that the O'Se brothers are moderate footballers are best the better we will be, no use being a fine physical lump of a man if you can't catch the ball or hold on to it when you have caught it. I am fed up watching them drop the ball or give it away, not their fault we lost but did feck all to win the game. We had a chance in first few minute for a tap over point and went for the goal instead and that set the pattern for the rest of the game.
Quote from: rrhf on October 01, 2016, 10:39:24 PM
The black card advocated by pundits has made a mockery of Gaelic football.
No it hasn't .Refrees don't seem to understand how to apply it properly. What Sean Cavanagh did some years back warranted more than a simple free when a goal was clearly on. As I have stated earlier Small should have got a black for that hand trip. Thought Keggan deserved a black, however Smalls black (lack of)was far more warranted.
Fair play to the Mayo supporters on here, no bitterness, have to say I do feel sorry for them. I don't know how they do it. Al least they have a team that fight tooth and nail for the cause unlike our lot. I did state this earlier the goalkeeping change was tragic and ultimately wrong.
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2016, 11:58:56 PM
What Colm Cavanagh did some years back warranted more than a simple free when a goal was clearly on. As I have stated earlier Small should have got a black for that hand trip. Thought Keggan deserved a black, however Smalls black (lack of)was far more warranted...
Sure about that?
Be surer of your facts a bhuachaill! ;)
Connolly through on goal and Keegan pulled him down. Black card end of story. Mayo defenders magnificent but their forwards shot
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 02, 2016, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2016, 11:58:56 PM
What Colm Cavanagh did some years back warranted more than a simple free when a goal was clearly on. As I have stated earlier Small should have got a black for that hand trip. Thought Keggan deserved a black, however Smalls black (lack of)was far more warranted...
Sure about that?
Be surer of your facts a bhuachaill! ;)
Cheers, apologies for the mistake, few taken.
But if you watch on TV Keegan didnt drag him down, Connolly fell, possible yellow earlier when he tugged the jersey but nothing else, Ref inconsistent when small should seen black early on.
Fair play to Dublin. The best team won the game. Mayo died with their boots on. Mayo gave it all they had and gave Dublin all they wanted but the Dubs are a super team with an incredible subs bench who in the end won the game for them.
Dublin starting to dominate football in the same way that KK did hurling. They can play it whatever way you want - they can play champagne football and aren't afraid to get into the trenches if they need to.
Dublin deserved this all Ireland - they beat a good donegal team, a brave Kerry team and a Mayo team who refused to lie down.
somebody said this dublin team moved into no.2 in the greatest team list, on what basis is that assumption made on, football today not of the same standard of 10yrs ago in my opinion, i wouldn't be confident of this Dublin team beating Tyrone or Kerry teams of a decade ago or the galway team of 15yrs ago in 2011 or today if your judging on the performance.
Dublin wouldn't look so great with 2 instead of 4 sams, Dublin wouldn't get near 5 in a row, their team actually beginning to slide, with Brogan, Flynn, MDMC all done, they are lucky in my opinion that outside of Mayo no other county has what they would call their golden generation playing,
Dublin are a very good team but not no.2 in my opinion,
And while it is still in my mind, what brilliant supporters Dublin have.
But what outstanding supporters from Mayo. These supporters just keep the faith year in year out and came out in both the drawn game and today to cheer on their team. Mayo must have outnumbered the Dubs today by 2:1 at least ?.
I'm depressed all evening. Don't want to go into blaming anyone at this early stage after the game. I'll watch it back before I comment further. Congrats to Dublin. Enjoy the win.
That was awful. Just when you think you've been through all the nightmares possible in Mayo football, it gets crazier and more bizzare. This particular mare started at 10am with 'rumours' about Clarke being dropped.
I'm back at home, half-way through a fridge-pack and hoping against hope that I will wake up in the morning and I dreamt it all up.
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 12:36:58 AM
That was awful. Just when you think you've been through all the nightmares possible in Mayo football, it gets crazier and more bizzare. This particular mare started at 10am with 'rumours' about Clarke being dropped.
I'm back at home, half-way through a fridge-pack and hoping against hope that I will wake up in the morning and I dreamt it all up.
Was Regan frigged or what Moy. Bringing on Alan Dillion as if he was going to change anything was the second worst call of the day by Rochford.
Reasons for Mayo's defeat:
Hennelly - can't catch a simple ball and kick-outs were useless - if you have a goalkeeper who cannot catch an overhead ball and you still decide to play him then what do you expect;
Keegan, this was always coming, he has been constantly fouling off the ball all season and glad carma came back and bit him in the arse. Clear decision for his black and any Mayo people that disagree are blind IMHO;
Mayo management - selecting Kennelly instead of Clark - Clark has not put a put wrong all season albeit for 5 mins a fortnight ago - management trying to stamp their mark - brilliant if it pays off but they should take the consequences if it fails - big time in this case
Mayo players - getting rid of Holmes & Connelly last season after getting them to an AI Final - done a far better job of it than Rochford this season - would Holmes/Connelly have deselected Clark?
Aidan o'Shea - again fails to live up to pre-match expectations - looks great against the likes of Sligo etc, but not a big-time player. Also still looks about 2-3st overweight and was clearly out of it going by RTE picture close-ups after 50 mins
Glad to see the better footballing team winning - even if it is the Dubs
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2016, 12:36:51 AM
I'm depressed all evening. Don't want to go into blaming anyone at this early stage after the game. I'll watch it back before I comment further. Congrats to Dublin. Enjoy the win.
+1
Too gutted to say more at the moment.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 02, 2016, 01:42:44 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2016, 12:36:51 AM
I'm depressed all evening. Don't want to go into blaming anyone at this early stage after the game. I'll watch it back before I comment further. Congrats to Dublin. Enjoy the win.
+1
Too gutted to say more at the moment.
There's f**k all to be said and I've probably said too much already. I've no intention of watching it back either.
Groundhog Day on Netflix instead maybe.
Quote from: mentalmick on October 02, 2016, 01:23:43 AM
Reasons for Mayo's defeat:
Hennelly - can't catch a simple ball and kick-outs were useless - if you have a goalkeeper who cannot catch an overhead ball and you still decide to play him then what do you expect;
Keegan, this was always coming, he has been constantly fouling off the ball all season and glad carma came back and bit him in the arse. Clear decision for his black and any Mayo people that disagree are blind IMHO;
Mayo management - selecting Kennelly instead of Clark - Clark has not put a put wrong all season albeit for 5 mins a fortnight ago - management trying to stamp their mark - brilliant if it pays off but they should take the consequences if it fails - big time in this case
Mayo players - getting rid of Holmes & Connelly last season after getting them to an AI Final - done a far better job of it than Rochford this season - would Holmes/Connelly have deselected Clark?
Aidan o'Shea - again fails to live up to pre-match expectations - looks great against the likes of Sligo etc, but not a big-time player. Also still looks about 2-3st overweight and was clearly out of it going by RTE picture close-ups after 50 mins
Glad to see the better footballing team winning - even if it is the Dubs
Would you ever fu-k off back to what ever hole you crawled out of.
Did Cilian have a shot from play all game?
My heart still goes out to Mayo, left everything out there and the game could have gone either way. Players like Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor did not deserve to be on the losing side. Dublins superior fire power off the bench won it for them with Brogan, MDMA and particularly Costello making a significant impact. However when all is said and done it was an outstanding game of football, a pure war of attrition and maybe the best final for 10+ years that was decided by Deegan making a few marginal calls in favour of the Dubs.
Dublin 1-15 Mayo 1-14: How the Mayo players rated
Cillian O'Connor's contribution impossible to ignore but Robert Hennelly's selection a disastrous one
about 12 hours ago
Gavin Cummiskey at Croke Park
Robert Hennelly 3
Disastrous selection. His floating kick outs gifted Dublin at least three points, contributed to Lee Keegan's black card while his inability to gather a routine high ball and subsequent dragging down of Paddy Andrews saw Diarmuid Connolly rifle the penalty that crushed Mayo's dream.
Patrick Durcan 7
Contributed enough to be an All-Ireland winner. What a curse it is. Enormous credit for the early man marking job he did on Paddy Andrews while his second point fell from the heavens
Keith Higgins 7
Showed up when Mayo needed a leader to drive them forward but Dean Rock had the better of him and landed two in the opening six minutes. It could have been 1-1 but Higgins recovered like he always does.
Brendan Harrison 7
What a talent. Bettered the silencing of Bernard Brogan in the draw by minding Paul Mannion and there was the pick-pocketing of Kevin McManamon at the moment that a goal would have seen a five point chasm opened between the sides.
Lee Keegan 7
Blacked carded just before half-time, it's an unfair place where Mayo footballers exist. Was doing more than keeping tabs on Connolly, who could have been black carded for an earlier incident Maurice Deegan missed, turning his bitter rival into a defender and plundering a magnificent goal.
Colm Boyle 7
TV View: Mayo's mojo not enough to break the spell of history
Keith Duggan: Dublin's Invincibles leave Mayo faraway, so close
Dublin 1-15 Mayo 1-14: How the Dublin players rated
Absolute warrior for 71 minutes, mixing with any Dub who would have him, combining man marking duties on Kevin McManamon and a ball carrying threat through midfield.
Donal Vaughan 6
Took over Diarmuid Connolly duties after Keegan walked and was unable to return for the second half after taking heavy punishment including a horrendous dunt when running at the aforementioned man of steel.
Seamus O'Shea 7
Strange to see the eldest O'Shea brother play to the death but he was inspirational during Mayo's third quarter refusal to wilt. There is a season or two left in those legs yet.
Tom Parsons 5
Lacked the pace to beat James McCarthy to a loose ball with a five metre head start. But his one gear did himself or Mayo no shame at all.
Diarmuid O'Connor 6
Kicked a nice score to ignite Mayo's second half assault but was lucky to avoid a card of some hue for some wild behaviour in the vicious period of this match. Needed to score more than 0-1, didn't.
Kevin McLoughlin 7
Prototype of the modern footballer. Covered miles of grass switching from sweeper to chief raider, kicking a point on 53 minutes that was vital to stem the leakage following Connolly's penalty.
Jason Doherty 6
Replaced by Alan Dillon on the hour. Didn't shirk the violent patches and could have been sanctioned but he worked as hard as any man on the field. Problem is Mayo needed a score or two from him to prevail.
Andy Moran 7
Last Mayo man to leave the pitch. Pulled this magnificent, lonely furrow season from a deep well of footballing excellence but that may be it for the 32 year old. Great point after sending Cian O'Sullivan one way then the other.
Aidan O'Shea 6
Not enough. Not from a man of his power, his natural footballing talent. Did glide so cleverly in front of O'Sullivan to set up Lee Keegan's goal but at the end the Dublin defenders swallowed him whole on square's edge.
Cillian O'Connor 8
On his shoulders Mayo were carried. Ten shots at the posts, nine made it through, the last one faded away. A great footballer but that greatness comes as much from his resilience and desire to win as talent.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 07:28:04 AM
My heart still goes out to Mayo, left everything out there and the game could have gone either way. Players like Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor did not deserve to be on the losing side. Dublins superior fire power off the bench won it for them with Brogan, MDMA and particularly Costello making a significant impact. However when all is said and done it was an outstanding game of football, a pure war of attrition and maybe the best final for 10+ years that was decided by Deegan making a few marginal calls in favour of the Dubs.
I would add Boyle to that list of Mayo lads who didn't deserve to be on the losing side - on reflection Mayo were outstanding. They gave everything they had an essentially a mistake and a couple of referee calls won it for Dublin and lost it for Mayo. Mayo will be back.
Dublin are a great outfit. Kerry and Mayo over 3 games threw the kitchen sink at them but Dublin kept going and eventually came out on top.
The goalkeeping decision has been done to death. Feel for the lad as a keepers mistakes are more cruelly exposed. The thing is if it worked out the then is a master stroke...the foibles of management. As for the player ratings in the Times all I can say is 'it wasn't me!!!' Few angry mayo heads attacked me on Twitter and FB😂
I thought the lose of Keegan was actually more game defining than the goalkeeping issue. He, Boyle and Durcan able to punish Dublin from deep and keep their forwards on the back foot. Without him Boyle and Durcan were were done in the last 5 minutes and didn't have the zip they could have used to force their way through or draw frees in easier positions. They kept getting bottled up in traffic and ultimately over turning the ball. COC looked leggy, AOS didn't really deliver, Moran not as influential as he was last day out(no question of his effort though). Dublin also simply had more effective options off the bench. Brogan Costello and McAuley in my opinion won it. 4-5 points came either directly from them or through frees won. That's 1/4 of the teams scores. If your bench is doing that then you're a long way to winning a game.
Hard luck Mayo but also well done Dublin. Strip away the media glorification of this team and you can see a really top team that knows how to play, how to adapt on-field but also has the edge that great teams have. That edge is summed up by Connolly. He seems to be maturing a bit and his passion in the speech after the game was great to see. Maybe I might like him some day!
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 12:36:58 AM
That was awful. Just when you think you've been through all the nightmares possible in Mayo football, it gets crazier and more bizzare. This particular mare started at 10am with 'rumours' about Clarke being dropped.
I'm back at home, half-way through a fridge-pack and hoping against hope that I will wake up in the morning and I dreamt it all up.
That was out 2 hours after the drawn match, we'll always find some crackpot way to lose.
Sadly Mayo got stung yesterday by one of the new trends in the game - management teams overthinking their roles.
Mayo's team basically picks itself but they felt the need to intervene. I actually feel sorry for Hennelly; it's not his fault that Rochford and co felt the need to invent a scenario to throw him in at the deep end. Mayo's outfield players didn't deserve to knock their bollocks out for 80 minutes to get undone by a blunder from their keeper.
Apart from that, I find some of the negative comments on this thread to be extraordinary. For my money, yesterday was an absolute classic between two throughly evenly matched teams. As a game it had absolutely everything, and if you feel the need to run it down I would politely suggest you f**k off and find a new sport to be glum about.
Congrats to Dublin. Their bench might have taken the plaudits but it was their defensive structure and ultra vigorous tackling that allowed the replacement forwards the opportunity and space to shine.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
Sadly Mayo got stung yesterday by one of the new trends in the game - management teams overthinking their roles.
Mayo's team basically picks itself but they felt the need to intervene. I actually feel sorry for Hennelly; it's not his fault that Rochford and co felt the need to invent a scenario to throw him in at the deep end. Mayo's outfield players didn't deserve to knock their bollocks out for 80 minutes to get undone by a blunder from their keeper.
Apart from that, I find some of the negative comments on this thread to be extraordinary. For my money, yesterday was an absolute classic between two throughly evenly matched teams. As a game it had absolutely everything, and if you feel the need to run it down I would politely suggest you f**k off and find a new sport to be glum about.
Congrats to Dublin. Their bench might have taken the plaudits but it was their defensive structure and ultra vigorous tackling that allowed the replacement forwards the opportunity and space to shine.
Very good assessment of the match I watched
Quote from: screenexile on October 01, 2016, 10:28:46 PM
Quote from: tiempo on October 01, 2016, 10:02:21 PM
Quote from: Scoring Zone on October 01, 2016, 09:35:30 PM
was blown away with the S&C of the players, its reaching scary standards, however the refereeing is shocking and the inconsistency of it lead to the scrappy end to the first half, Felt dublin let the pressure get to them, but just had forwards with more natural ability and better bench. With mayo, no sympathy, game was there twice and they didn't take it. The change of the keepers backfired, and bar frees from O'Connor most of there forward play was gutless - Aidan O'Shea hasn't an arse in his trousers, twice he was needed in a fortnight and was found wanting, his bother was seismic after a poor show last time round as was boyle and the corner backs - Mayo don't have the quality of forwards to score from play 3 or 4 times a game and won't win sam until they do
S&C to the hilt and kick passing non-existant, any of the good footballing champion teams of the past would have made shite of Mayo and Dublin e.g. Down, Galway, Tyrone, various Kerry
No... You are completely incorrect!
Its not S&C to blame this is to be accepted, it is the integration on sweepers and statistics on turnovers to blame for the lack of kick passing, if you look up and see a sweeper and kick it in your basically hung out to dry in a team meeting and dropped, possession is king and club and county football is a getting to be a similar model to rugby league, banks of three and four players defensively and attacking in staggered pods and braking the line of defence, any champion before 2012 would be eaten up and chewed out by the current football model and S&C to the tune of 6+ points and that cannot be argued against
Plus One.
Probably the most intense atmospheric and exhilarating match I have seen. Both teams going full pelt. Fitness levels unreal with big hits going in all over the pitch in what was arguably the hardest physical battle ever in a final.
Those who say this match was drab don't understand it. Two fantastic teams going toe to toe. I think it was a classic that will be talked about for years.
I thought it was missing some of the outstanding scores of previous contests, there were a few for sure but a lot of the time lads wouldn't take on the difficult shots. That said it was physical, engrossing, exciting and well fought. The team with the better panel won the day.
Great game just a brilliant match for 70 mins. Two weeks ago I thought Mayo would be hammered out the gate, how wrong I was. I think we can analyse the game to death but I suppose over the last 3 years Mayo have lost all the huge games they played while all the time looking like winning. I don't understand the human psyche but surely when in the melting pot there is something holding Mayo back. I don't know how Roachford over comes this but it is surely a bigger issue than how they play on any given day.
Dublin are some team to be able to carry a forward that has no interest in ever even look like shooting.
I often think that the reason Armagh finally got over the line in 2002 is because we managed to find 6 scoring forwards; so I guess that's modern foootball and the constant desire to retain possession at all costs that sees Kilkenny as such a pivotal player for them.
Now the talk about the greatest side ever can begin again.
Is my memory failing me or was Ciaran Kilkenny not a prolific scoring forward in his underage career and early days on the senior panel? It's mind-boggling how he turns down 90%+ of the 'makeable' shots he is presented with. Did he go through a bad period of misses that has lead to the current player he is?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 02, 2016, 10:43:44 AM
Dublin are some team to be able to carry a forward that has no interest in ever even look like shooting.
I often think that the reason Armagh finally got over the line in 2002 is because we managed to find 6 scoring forwards; so I guess that's modern foootball and the constant desire to retain possession at all costs that sees Kilkenny as such a pivotal player for them.
The way the game is now i think 3 is enough scoring forwards. Donegal had mcbrearty, murphy and mcfadden. Kerry teams had guys like galvin and walsh who didn't massively challenge the scoreboard. Tyrone had a few too. 3 to me is the least you need. Dublin have a few now too. Flynn doesn't massively challenge the scoreboard but still a fantastic player.
I thought quite a few of the Dublin players including the subs didnt shoot from scoring positions, which is the reason it was a close game.
Thought a more confident Dublin forward line should have closed the game out with 20 mins left
Quote from: omagh_gael on October 02, 2016, 10:52:21 AM
Is my memory failing me or was Ciaran Kilkenny not a prolific scoring forward in his underage career and early days on the senior panel? It's mind-boggling how he turns down 90%+ of the 'makeable' shots he is presented with. Did he go through a bad period of misses that has lead to the current player he is?
Dublin version 2014 were the best footballing side in recent memory. It was total football that year until Donegal ambushed them. Since then Gavin has taken a more pragmatic approach and Kilkenny has been one of those players who has helped with this 'process'.
Chin up, guys.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 02, 2016, 10:16:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
Sadly Mayo got stung yesterday by one of the new trends in the game - management teams overthinking their roles.
Mayo's team basically picks itself but they felt the need to intervene. I actually feel sorry for Hennelly; it's not his fault that Rochford and co felt the need to invent a scenario to throw him in at the deep end. Mayo's outfield players didn't deserve to knock their bollocks out for 80 minutes to get undone by a blunder from their keeper.
Apart from that, I find some of the negative comments on this thread to be extraordinary. For my money, yesterday was an absolute classic between two throughly evenly matched teams. As a game it had absolutely everything, and if you feel the need to run it down I would politely suggest you f**k off and find a new sport to be glum about.
Congrats to Dublin. Their bench might have taken the plaudits but it was their defensive structure and ultra vigorous tackling that allowed the replacement forwards the opportunity and space to shine.
Very good assessment of the match I watched
Times two
After Coopers black I hoped we would avoid giving Deegan the opportunity to level things up. Losing Keegan and then Vaughan were massive blows.
Lads gave everything, Diarmuid O Connor needs to be rested until later stages of the league next year.
Anyone have an idea why David Clarke was dropped?
I'm not begrudging Dublin anything but I knew as the teams came out that Bob was going to commit at least one clanger and I could only pray that it would.t cost us dearly.
Some much for the power of prayer...
Going back to the time I first saw him in the minor decider against Tyrone (in 2008?) I always felt afraid when he had to reach for a dropping ball. He could be brilliant for the rest of the game but I knew that there would be at least one c**k up in him before the final whistle.
I heard that Clarke's poor kick outs were the cause of his omission but Hennelly was even worse always so why the change?
The yobbos attacking Hennelly online I see. The same lads who probably have only ever been to Croke Park to see Mayo play. The lad will be suffering enough without the dregs of society piling on.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 02, 2016, 11:53:08 AM
Anyone have an idea why David Clarke was dropped?
I'm not begrudging Dublin anything but I knew as the teams came out that Bob was going to commit at least one clanger and I could only pray that it would.t cost us dearly.
Some much for the power of prayer...
Going back to the time I first saw him in the minor decider against Tyrone (in 2008?) I always felt afraid when he had to reach for a dropping ball. He could be brilliant for the rest of the game but I knew that there would be at least one c**k up in him before the final whistle.
I heard that Clarke's poor kick outs were the cause of his omission but Hennelly was even worse always so why the change?
Rochford said Hennelly was on due to greater distance on kickouts. Dublin pushed high on Clarke kickouts towards end of drawn game.
How they overlooked his propensity for mistakes is another thing though. :-[. Tough on him.
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2016, 12:07:53 PM
The yobbos attacking Hennelly online I see. The same lads who probably have only ever been to Croke Park to see Mayo play. The lad will be suffering enough without the dregs of society piling on.
I definitely feel for Hennelly. It was a one point game. The penalty was a pivotal moment no doubt.
Anyone think by the way that it wasn't a penalty and not a black card ???
100% penalty and black card, imo.
The game was fantastic. Congratulations to Dublin, a great team and their bench won it in the end. MDM caught a kick-out when it favoured Mayo, Costello's 3 points, Brogan point - all crucial. As a neutral I was supporting Mayo and watched the game more from their perspective. Their fitness levels stand out, they didn't wilt in either game when Dublin pushed ahead in the last ten. They just always seem to find a bizarre way to throw away an All Ireland, yesterday it was the goalkeeping decision - I really feel for Hennelly. Once again some of the Mayo lads played the shirts off their back, McLaughlin for example who I've always had my doubts about in the past was excellent. Vaughan was having a great game and it was very unfortunate he had to go off, and obviously Keegan was a huge blow (but so was Cooper). Seamie O'Se answered his critics, Aidan just isn't fit enough - good in the first half but knackered in the second. Not really enough out of Moran, D O'Connor and Doherty either - very hard to win an All Ireland with two or three forwards bottled up. Such a long way back now for Mayo - Kerry must be licking their lips for next year - Dublin might loose a bit of hunger and Mayo have had more psychological damage inflicted.
Imo, I thought it was a clinker .. And management decisions had a key factor.,
I don't want to seem patronizing but it must be so hard to be a mayo supporter.. Never have I wanted a team to win more outside my county ...
Clarke cost Mayo the 1st game if people want to look at it objectively. Couple of points off bad kick outs, he came running of his line and conceded a silly free going for a high ball and he almost scored an own goal when going for another high ball. I can understand why he was dropped, however it's hard to believe the sub keeper would have twice as bad a game as Clarke did.
I wouldn't like to pile in on the lad, but the decision to play Hennelly was a huge call that backfired spectacularly. Rochford should have shown loyalty to the keeper who had been having a great season and had been instrumental in Mayo's success this year. A very, very bad judgement call that probably cost Mayo the match. Harsh on Clarke and harsh on Hennelly both. He threw Hennelly into the pressure cooker and the lad looked a nervous wreck from the get-go. Hard not to feel for the players honestly. They gave it everything but ultimately management over thought things and didn't show enough faith in the players who had gotten them this far.
Mayo need to send AOS to play basketball over the winter. It will improve his awareness of players around him. He gives Mayo very little at the minute.
He can win ball but is too slow releasing it. He gets turned over or kicks ball away. Only time he used ball well was for Keegan's goal.
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2016, 12:07:53 PM
The yobbos attacking Hennelly online I see. The same lads who probably have only ever been to Croke Park to see Mayo play. The lad will be suffering enough without the dregs of society piling on.
Very true it's tough on Hennelly.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 02, 2016, 12:54:42 PM
Mayo need to send AOS to play basketball over the winter. It will improve his awareness of players around him. He gives Mayo very little at the minute.
He can win ball but is too slow releasing it. He gets turned over or kicks ball away. Only time he used ball well was for Keegan's goal.
In fairness is tough going to have to develop the tactics, pick the team and then be expected to play on the day too!
Too true Bennycake. AOS is not a great footballer. A big unit who would be vital to a team that pumped it down the middle but that has all changed. Only asset he has is in the air but when in possession far too slow and ponderous. In these days of stats it was obvious that his yardage count would be at best 70% of a Fenton and this was really exposed in the last 15 when MDMA was introduced. In fact McAuley ran the last 15 mins when AOS legs were gone although brother SOS did turn up yesterday to his credit.
Maybe route one to AOS and Barry Moran might have exposed the lack of height in the Dublin full back line, especially when the Dubs took control near the end and it looked like a goal was needed from Mayo.
Yesterday Kevin Mc Loughlins contribution to Mayo was much greater than AOS proving size isn't everything anymore in football. But an engine is.
Yes McLoughlin was excellent I thought. For a man that looks like a hunger striker, he's got great energy.
McLoone was similar to AOS for Donegal in 2014. Too ponderous. Nobody could spread the ball from CHF like Greg Blaney.
Quote from: Itchy on October 02, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
Clarke cost Mayo the 1st game if people want to look at it objectively. Couple of points off bad kick outs, he came running of his line and conceded a silly free going for a high ball and he almost scored an own goal when going for another high ball. I can understand why he was dropped, however it's hard to believe the sub keeper would have twice as bad a game as Clarke did.
I thought the same the first day. Two decent saves from Fenton masked a shaky enough performance. I'd say hennelly had a few poor kickouts yesterday and then the double nightmare for the penalty. Such is the life of a keeper that he will be the scapegoat.
I actually predict Mayo for Sam in 2017. A full pre season with Rochford (was he appointed fairly late in 2015?) and I think they will finally make the breakthrough.
A fógra speisialta here. Sorry to cut across the discussion but I'll be brief:
Anyone at a loose end in Castlebar around tea time tomorrow is welcome to come along to a book launch in Castle Bookshop, scheduled for 6 pm.
The Kenny fella is doing the launch and I guess I will be expected to attend since I wrote book.
The proprietor told me I was free to ask anyone I liked so I took him at his word as I won't be footing the bill.
Incidentally, the book is "The Little Book of Mayo," by The History Press.
Aidan O Shea is struggling to fit into todays modern football based mostly on speed,fitness and mobility. Dublin to me looked like a side that had peaked for the All Ireland semi final and they were there for the taking not once but twice against Mayo. Mayo never caught fire this year at all and that is probably the main reason why Mayo were unable to topple a Dublin side that were far from their best yesterday or two weeks ago.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2016, 02:03:30 PM
Aidan O Shea is struggling to fit into todays modern football based mostly on speed,fitness and mobility. Dublin to me looked like a side that had peaked for the All Ireland semi final and they were there for the taking not once but twice against Mayo. Mayo never caught fire this year at all and that is probably the main reason why Mayo were unable to topple a Dublin side that were far from their best yesterday or two weeks ago.
He carries the ball into contact far too much and that wears him down energy wise. His style is reminiscent of Kevin "Crash Ball" Maggs.
He was absolutely gassed by the last few minutes and was blowing hard back on his own 45 metre line when Mayo were attacking late on - they needed him up the pitch but he was nowhere to be seen.
Quote from: square_ball on October 02, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 02, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
Clarke cost Mayo the 1st game if people want to look at it objectively. Couple of points off bad kick outs, he came running of his line and conceded a silly free going for a high ball and he almost scored an own goal when going for another high ball. I can understand why he was dropped, however it's hard to believe the sub keeper would have twice as bad a game as Clarke did.
I thought the same the first day. Two decent saves from Fenton masked a shaky enough performance. I'd say hennelly had a few poor kickouts yesterday and then the double nightmare for the penalty. Such is the life of a keeper that he will be the scapegoat.
I actually predict Mayo for Sam in 2017. A full pre season with Rochford (was he appointed fairly late in 2015?) and I think they will finally make the breakthrough.
I was thinking the same thing. Kerry are nowhere. Throne are going nowhere. The rest need more time
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2016, 02:03:30 PM
Aidan O Shea is struggling to fit into todays modern football based mostly on speed,fitness and mobility. Dublin to me looked like a side that had peaked for the All Ireland semi final and they were there for the taking not once but twice against Mayo. Mayo never caught fire this year at all and that is probably the main reason why Mayo were unable to topple a Dublin side that were far from their best yesterday or two weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIL-uFB7cIc
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2016, 02:18:27 PM
Quote from: square_ball on October 02, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 02, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
Clarke cost Mayo the 1st game if people want to look at it objectively. Couple of points off bad kick outs, he came running of his line and conceded a silly free going for a high ball and he almost scored an own goal when going for another high ball. I can understand why he was dropped, however it's hard to believe the sub keeper would have twice as bad a game as Clarke did.
I thought the same the first day. Two decent saves from Fenton masked a shaky enough performance. I'd say hennelly had a few poor kickouts yesterday and then the double nightmare for the penalty. Such is the life of a keeper that he will be the scapegoat.
I actually predict Mayo for Sam in 2017. A full pre season with Rochford (was he appointed fairly late in 2015?) and I think they will finally make the breakthrough.
I was thinking the same thing. Kerry are nowhere. Throne are going nowhere. The rest need more time
Not wanting to hijack the thread but how are Kerry and Tyrone out of the race? Kerry are going to get a fresh injection of pedigree AI winners and Tyrone were a couple of poor shots away from disposing Mayo, that is after us playing well below our potential.
If Dublin don't have their heads/motivation right next year then the race for Sam could be wide open. I think 2017 is shaping up to be a really interesting championship.
@Jinxy - retirements - Bastick for definite. O'Carroll very likely.
I don't think any of the others will.
Berno?
Although I suppose it's in his interests to maintain his profile.
Cluxton can keep going as long as he wants.
Gave an exhibition of kicking yesterday.
Mayo need to think outside the box and look at their recent u-21 teams and pick a couple of forwards with PACE.
It doesn't matter if they weren't leading lights, that team badly needs speed up front.
Look at the difference Costello made for Dublin when he came on.
Can't understand why Hennelly started. Hadn't played since June v Galway. Mind boggles.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2016, 03:18:01 PM
Can't understand why Hennelly started. Hadn't played since June v Galway. Mind boggles.
Distressing. This disastrous selection will have a chapter all of its own in Keith Duggan's next book.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 02, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
Berno?
Although I suppose it's in his interests to maintain his profile.
Cluxton can keep going as long as he wants.
Gave an exhibition of kicking yesterday.
I can't see Berno retiring - he needs his profile and has plenty more to offer. I'd be telling him and a few others to go away and keep themselves ticking over and see you in March.
Staying up in Div 1 should be the target next year, not winning it again - they don't need the form correlation from winning those games in Feb-April.
Mayo still need a marquee forward - someone who can conjure a score from nowhere - O'Connor is a fine player but their attacking game plan is too Plan A and Plan A 1.1 - need variety.
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2016, 03:18:01 PM
Can't understand why Hennelly started. Hadn't played since June v Galway. Mind boggles.
Distressing. This disastrous selection will have a chapter all of its own in Keith Duggan's next book.
Lads I was told by someone close to the panel after the drawn game that Clarke would definitely not start, this was only a couple of hours after the game. I said I found that hard to believe, when the team was first announced I thought we were in the clear..
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2016, 03:32:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 02, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
Berno?
Although I suppose it's in his interests to maintain his profile.
Cluxton can keep going as long as he wants.
Gave an exhibition of kicking yesterday.
I can't see Berno retiring - he needs his profile and has plenty more to offer. I'd be telling him and a few others to go away and keep themselves ticking over and see you in March.
Staying up in Div 1 should be the target next year, not winning it again - they don't need the form correlation from winning those games in Feb-April.
Mayo still need a marquee forward - someone who can conjure a score from nowhere - O'Connor is a fine player but their attacking game plan is too Plan A and Plan A 1.1 - need variety.
CO'C was nowhere to be seen yesterday. Likewise the last days, bar the equalizer. Hard working forwards only get you so far. You need at least 2 forwards who can get scores from nothing. Most AI winners have them, except Mayo (who aren't an AI winner).
In regards to retirements I think Mayo will have more in the foreseeable future than Dublin will. A Moran,A Dillion,G Cafferky,C Boyle,K Higgins,S O Shea,B Moran,C Barrett all in their 30s next year with loads of mileage on their clocks.
Mayo's 3 'go-to' forwards at the moment are O'Connor, O'Shea and Moran.
I'm pretty confident I'd be faster than all three of them and I'm not even playing anymore.
Would it be worth trying Keegan in the half-forward line?
Don't be afraid to think outside the box.
Boylan used to look at a player, and regardless of where he typically played his football, he'd find a position for him that benefited the team first and foremost.
Look at the way Keegan took his goal yesterday.
Good point jinxy...wasn't there one year,where all meath forwards bar ollie Murphy were defenders for their clubs...
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
CO'C needs to practise frees off the ground. A Michael Murphy or a Oisin would've nailed that. Actually it was same distance as that baldy git Canavans winner in 05.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
Up your jaxe.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
He clearly took the man out. Saying else is complete bullshit.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 02, 2016, 04:36:07 PM
CO'C needs to practise frees off the ground. A Michael Murphy or a Oisin would've nailed that. Actually it was same distance as that baldy git Canavans winner in 05.
Still bitter ;)
Quote from: BennyCake on October 02, 2016, 04:36:07 PM
CO'C needs to practise frees off the ground. A Michael Murphy or a Oisin would've nailed that. Actually it was same distance as that baldy git Canavans winner in 05.
Someone mentioned that today and I couldn't for the life of me remember. Possibly because I had my head down praying he would miss
The Hennelly decision was clearly the correct choice, Keegan's was a free in and at worse a yellow but there was no way it wasn't a black. Connolly's dive, protestations and the pressure got to Deegan. Cooper's black was correct but seemed a little harsh, it is a silly natural reaction to go for the leg. There was not much in Connolly and Vaughan coming together, the two yellows given were probably ok.
Small should have had a black before he should have got red although that was Coldrick's fault.
Connolly was then lucky not to pick up a second yellow for a cynical highish challenge.
Dublin may have had a second penalty for the barge on McMenamin but it would have been very harsh and there was similar down the under end when McMahon barged into Aidan O'Shea. No complaints with either of them issues.
In fairness to Rochford he didn't say a bad word about Deegan when asked about his performance afterwards, they lost with a lot of dignity and class. Similar to Keegan who congratulated Connolly afterwards after Connolly had done his best to get him sent off.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
In fairness to Rochford he didn't say a bad word about Deegan when asked about his performance afterwards, they lost with a lot of dignity and class. Similar to Keegan who congratulated Connolly afterwards after Connolly had done his best to get him sent off.
Rochford must be well aware that his selection blunder was worse than anything Deegan did to Mayo. Which is pity when you consider everything that Rochford got right, especially the best defensive performances Mayo have ever produced in an AI final.
However he is being crucified over the goalkeeping isssue
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
I actually agree re the peno. The keeper did play the ball and Paddy Andrews dived. Watch it...Andrews thinks about it and then dives. The awful mistake beforehand took concentration away from what happened immediately after
Connelly clearly dived for the keegan black. Tomas or spillane said it was a clear pull to the ground while the cctv was showing it clearly wasnt....that sorta shit would be laughed out of court. Does no one call these pundits to account?! Connelly dived to get a free and/or a black...simple.
No matter what though, EVEN IF MAYO KEPT ALL THEIR players and even if no penalty was given, you just couldnt see them kicking on and winning....so frustrating because their ddefending and intensity was a joy to watch....they are just missing a go to scoring forward...even if they had Costello, a forward with a bit of pace and scoring threat they wouldve won...even one from b brogan, p andrews, mannion, costello, connelly or rock wouldve been enogh to get them over the line
Decision to bring Andy Moran off was mind boggling. Best ball winner and best baller. To be replaced by a tall gangly player they barely kicked the ball into was madness. He won one dubious free but was slower than slow out to the next ball..that wont win you an all ireland
Would like to see Andy Moran stay next year. Mayos best forward to watch.
Big o se again floundered on tthe biggest stage..winning of ball and pass to keegan was perfect but mayo needed scores, not wides from him down the home stretch. Clutch player he is not
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
In fairness to Rochford he didn't say a bad word about Deegan when asked about his performance afterwards, they lost with a lot of dignity and class. Similar to Keegan who congratulated Connolly afterwards after Connolly had done his best to get him sent off.
Connolly didn't do anything in that regard. Keegan did that all on his own- helped by his own team-mates.
Quote from: Gold on October 02, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
I actually agree re the peno. The keeper did play the ball and Paddy Andrews dived. Watch it...Andrews thinks about it and then dives. The awful mistake beforehand took concentration away from what happened immediately after
Connelly clearly dived for the keegan black. Tomas or spillane said it was a clear pull to the ground while the cctv was showing it clearly wasnt....that sorta shit would be laughed out of court. Does no one call these pundits to account?! Connelly dived to get a free and/or a black...simple.
No matter what though, EVEN IF MAYO KEPT ALL THEIR players and even if no penalty was given, you just couldnt see them kicking on and winning....so frustrating because their ddefending and intensity was a joy to watch....they are just missing a go to scoring forward...even if they had Costello, a forward with a bit of pace and scoring threat they wouldve won...even one from b brogan, p andrews, mannion, costello, connelly or rock wouldve been enogh to get them over the line
Decision to bring Andy Moran off was mind boggling. Best ball winner and best baller. To be replaced by a tall gangly player they barely kicked the ball into was madness. He won one dubious free but was slower than slow out to the next ball..that wont win you an all ireland
Would like to see Andy Moran stay next year. Mayos best forward to watch.
Big o se again floundered on tthe biggest stage..winning of ball and pass to keegan was perfect but mayo needed scores, not wides from him down the home stretch. Clutch player he is not
1- it was clearly a penalty. Saying a Dublin player dived only draws me to conclude that you are under the influence
2- Keegan prevented Connolly sticking the ball in the back of the net - that's a black card
3- Andy moran was taken off because Mick Fitz obliterated him.
4- Mayo lost any chance of winning the game because they changed the keeper . that's the unfortunate reality. And the bottom line. That is the Mayo's management's fault. ironic considering the Mayo players threw the last management team under the bus. Karma is an unusual thing.
Moran is always subbed out around the 55th minute.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 07:03:36 PM
Quote from: Gold on October 02, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
I actually agree re the peno. The keeper did play the ball and Paddy Andrews dived. Watch it...Andrews thinks about it and then dives. The awful mistake beforehand took concentration away from what happened immediately after
Connelly clearly dived for the keegan black. Tomas or spillane said it was a clear pull to the ground while the cctv was showing it clearly wasnt....that sorta shit would be laughed out of court. Does no one call these pundits to account?! Connelly dived to get a free and/or a black...simple.
No matter what though, EVEN IF MAYO KEPT ALL THEIR players and even if no penalty was given, you just couldnt see them kicking on and winning....so frustrating because their ddefending and intensity was a joy to watch....they are just missing a go to scoring forward...even if they had Costello, a forward with a bit of pace and scoring threat they wouldve won...even one from b brogan, p andrews, mannion, costello, connelly or rock wouldve been enogh to get them over the line
Decision to bring Andy Moran off was mind boggling. Best ball winner and best baller. To be replaced by a tall gangly player they barely kicked the ball into was madness. He won one dubious free but was slower than slow out to the next ball..that wont win you an all ireland
Would like to see Andy Moran stay next year. Mayos best forward to watch.
Big o se again floundered on tthe biggest stage..winning of ball and pass to keegan was perfect but mayo needed scores, not wides from him down the home stretch. Clutch player he is not
1- it was clearly a penalty. Saying a Dublin player dived only draws me to conclude that you are under the influence
2- Keegan prevented Connolly sticking the ball in the back of the net - that's a black card
3- Andy moran was taken off because Mick Fitz obliterated him.
4- Mayo lost any chance of winning the game because they changed the keeper . that's the unfortunate reality. And the bottom line. That is the Mayo's management's fault. ironic considering the Mayo players threw the last management team under the bus. Karma is an unusual thing.
I don't think black card rule states anything about a goal scoring opportunity. Granted it was brought in on the back of an incident where one was denied, but the rule doesn't state it.
I'm not from Mayo or Dublin, and didn't care who won. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and think Dubs just about deserved it.
I do know a couple of the Mayo players (from college days) and the setup they have no is light years ahead of what they got rid of 12 months ago. You probably don't know the ins and outs, or care for that matter. Why would you.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
An objective viewing of the game would show that all of the referee's "wrong" calls did not "favour Dublin". It's a pity that after every big game someone will always cry "we were robbed" and blame the referee. It's so predictable.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 07:03:36 PM
Quote from: Gold on October 02, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
I actually agree re the peno. The keeper did play the ball and Paddy Andrews dived. Watch it...Andrews thinks about it and then dives. The awful mistake beforehand took concentration away from what happened immediately after
Connelly clearly dived for the keegan black. Tomas or spillane said it was a clear pull to the ground while the cctv was showing it clearly wasnt....that sorta shit would be laughed out of court. Does no one call these pundits to account?! Connelly dived to get a free and/or a black...simple.
No matter what though, EVEN IF MAYO KEPT ALL THEIR players and even if no penalty was given, you just couldnt see them kicking on and winning....so frustrating because their ddefending and intensity was a joy to watch....they are just missing a go to scoring forward...even if they had Costello, a forward with a bit of pace and scoring threat they wouldve won...even one from b brogan, p andrews, mannion, costello, connelly or rock wouldve been enogh to get them over the line
Decision to bring Andy Moran off was mind boggling. Best ball winner and best baller. To be replaced by a tall gangly player they barely kicked the ball into was madness. He won one dubious free but was slower than slow out to the next ball..that wont win you an all ireland
Would like to see Andy Moran stay next year. Mayos best forward to watch.
Big o se again floundered on tthe biggest stage..winning of ball and pass to keegan was perfect but mayo needed scores, not wides from him down the home stretch. Clutch player he is not
1- it was clearly a penalty. Saying a Dublin player dived only draws me to conclude that you are under the influence
2- Keegan prevented Connolly sticking the ball in the back of the net - that's a black card
3- Andy moran was taken off because Mick Fitz obliterated him.
4- Mayo lost any chance of winning the game because they changed the keeper . that's the unfortunate reality. And the bottom line. That is the Mayo's management's fault. ironic considering the Mayo players threw the last management team under the bus. Karma is an unusual thing.
Karma? Not sure why some people are using this as an opportunity to gloat or force the Mayo players to eat humble pie over the management issue. The call they made last year has left them open to a lot of criticism and I'm sure they knew that when they took the decision to vote against the management. They made that decision anyway, knowing they'd be criticised, and that takes courage. They lost this final by a solitary point after 160 minutes against the best team of the last few years. While I'm sure it's no consolation for them, there's no shame in how they did in both finals this year and few things here or there and they might have won. They're a good team and seem very determined. Rochford got the goalkeeper call wrong and it probably did cost them, but he got a lot of other calls very right throughout the year. He's a good manager and a young man too, so plenty of time to improve from this. There's no reason why they can't build and learn from this.
no body takes Indiana seriously on this board anymore.As usual wrong about the black card rule.Well done to Dublin but this will be a hard one to take over the long winter.It did pop into my head after the drawn game re Hennelly and his kick outs being better then Clarkes but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would play.Clarke has a huge presence in the Mayo goals and offers peace of mind which is hard to quantify.His all star is now probably gone but I am sure thats the last thing on his mind right now.
Clarke should have been kept purely for the fact that he would have built a relationship with his fullback line over the course of big games in the summer. They looked a lot more confident with him behind him. Messing with that dynamic was a huge mistake.
:(well as i said mayo would not win by agression albeit notting like weeks ago but to lose by a point was great result foe mayo. if the peno was not given then mayo would have won .another thing to take out clarke?goalie was a stupid thing by mayo manager .that and only that lost them the game.mayo are a stronger team the strongest in ireland right now and should have won this game .so the thing is mayshould be happy to have brought dubs so close . and remember that mayo swept the wrong devil into wrong corner . good luck for next year the curse is all in the mind . no such thing .id say next year mayo will hold the sam because of the retirement og b brogan and other older players. hard luck mayo . dublin fan in roscommon
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 02, 2016, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 07:03:36 PM
Quote from: Gold on October 02, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 02, 2016, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Not sure if all that introspection is needed in Mayo.
Despite allegedly having no forwards and coming up against the often touted greatest forward line of all time, Dublin won by a solitary point, which was mostly courtesy of Mayo's keeper gifting them penalty.
.
Exactly. All you read in the media today is how Dublin got everything right and what Mayo done wrong. Proof that the script is dictated by the victors. Mayo were agonisingly close to winning the title but unfortunately they came up against a side that just had a little bit more quality.
Not to mention a Referee who got some major calls wrong which coincidentally all seemed to favour Dublin.
I have some sympathy with the referee as Gaelic football has become almost an impossible sport to referee properly but I did feel as though Dublin benefitted from the major decisions. Most notably failure to show Small a red card and also the decision to award a penalty when Hennelly clearly played the ball. He was so embarrassed by his mistake that he didn't even put up an argument but I felt that he won the ball first. The Small decision was more clear cut though and that was the lines mans fault
I actually agree re the peno. The keeper did play the ball and Paddy Andrews dived. Watch it...Andrews thinks about it and then dives. The awful mistake beforehand took concentration away from what happened immediately after
Connelly clearly dived for the keegan black. Tomas or spillane said it was a clear pull to the ground while the cctv was showing it clearly wasnt....that sorta shit would be laughed out of court. Does no one call these pundits to account?! Connelly dived to get a free and/or a black...simple.
No matter what though, EVEN IF MAYO KEPT ALL THEIR players and even if no penalty was given, you just couldnt see them kicking on and winning....so frustrating because their ddefending and intensity was a joy to watch....they are just missing a go to scoring forward...even if they had Costello, a forward with a bit of pace and scoring threat they wouldve won...even one from b brogan, p andrews, mannion, costello, connelly or rock wouldve been enogh to get them over the line
Decision to bring Andy Moran off was mind boggling. Best ball winner and best baller. To be replaced by a tall gangly player they barely kicked the ball into was madness. He won one dubious free but was slower than slow out to the next ball..that wont win you an all ireland
Would like to see Andy Moran stay next year. Mayos best forward to watch.
Big o se again floundered on tthe biggest stage..winning of ball and pass to keegan was perfect but mayo needed scores, not wides from him down the home stretch. Clutch player he is not
1- it was clearly a penalty. Saying a Dublin player dived only draws me to conclude that you are under the influence
2- Keegan prevented Connolly sticking the ball in the back of the net - that's a black card
3- Andy moran was taken off because Mick Fitz obliterated him.
4- Mayo lost any chance of winning the game because they changed the keeper . that's the unfortunate reality. And the bottom line. That is the Mayo's management's fault. ironic considering the Mayo players threw the last management team under the bus. Karma is an unusual thing.
Karma? Not sure why some people are using this as an opportunity to gloat or force the Mayo players to eat humble pie over the management issue. The call they made last year has left them open to a lot of criticism and I'm sure they knew that when they took the decision to vote against the management. They made that decision anyway, knowing they'd be criticised, and that takes courage. They lost this final by a solitary point after 160 minutes against the best team of the last few years. While I'm sure it's no consolation for them, there's no shame in how they did in both finals this year and few things here or there and they might have won. They're a good team and seem very determined. Rochford got the goalkeeper call wrong and it probably did cost them, but he got a lot of other calls very right throughout the year. He's a good manager and a young man too, so plenty of time to improve from this. There's no reason why they can't build and learn from this.
It was quite a call to get wrong. I can't recall in my life-time a keeper like Clarke who was the all star elect keeper getting dropped for a final after a few airy kick-outs. It's worse then Horan leaving Higgins on O Gara in 2013.
Mayo seem to be cursed with managers making bizarre sideline calls. I wonder who influenced Rochford to make that call. Because I do think he is a very fine manager and it's completely out of character if you look at his track record as a manager.
Quote from: maigheo on October 02, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
no body takes Indiana seriously on this board anymore.As usual wrong about the black card rule.Well done to Dublin but this will be a hard one to take over the long winter.It did pop into my head after the drawn game re Hennelly and his kick outs being better then Clarkes but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would play.Clarke has a huge presence in the Mayo goals and offers peace of mind which is hard to quantify.His all star is now probably gone but I am sure thats the last thing on his mind right now.
I take myself very seriously here because all my points are correct as usual.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 02, 2016, 05:45:18 PM
The Hennelly decision was clearly the correct choice, Keegan's was a free in and at worse a yellow but there was no way it wasn't a black. Connolly's dive, protestations and the pressure got to Deegan. Cooper's black was correct but seemed a little harsh, it is a silly natural reaction to go for the leg. There was not much in Connolly and Vaughan coming together, the two yellows given were probably ok.
Small should have had a black before he should have got red although that was Coldrick's fault.
Connolly was then lucky not to pick up a second yellow for a cynical highish challenge.
Dublin may have had a second penalty for the barge on McMenamin but it would have been very harsh and there was similar down the under end when McMahon barged into Aidan O'Shea. No complaints with either of them issues.
There has been a lot of debate about the Keegan black card, but less about Cooper's. It was correct and was harsh, but I felt Cooper acted out in frustration. About 30 seconds before his black card he was flattened just after the Mayo goal. The umpire clearly saw it and seemed a little shocked. He was basically assaulted with his back to his attacker, who could clearly be seen driving his knee into him. On another day Cooper might have been carried off. The ref did feck all about it and a minute later he sent Copper to the line.
Players sometimes have a tendency to overreact, seek revenge, or foul, after they themselves have been wronged. I would imagine Cooper had reason to feel very aggrieved.
After the card he got seamus o'shea last year maybe a touch of karma there then blue island...
In a way Mayo did really well to be so close to a team that blew away most of the other competitors when you think that Mayo haven't much if an up front threat. If Mayo find two absolute top drawer forwards they'd have won that and they could utilize Aiden O'Shea more effectively.
I don't think they even need to be top drawer forwards.
Just a couple of lads with pace and heart who could chip in with 1/2 points a game.
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
In a way Mayo did really well to be so close to a team that blew away most of the other competitors when you think that Mayo haven't much if an up front threat. If Mayo find two absolute top drawer forwards they'd have won that and they could utilize Aiden O'Shea more effectively.
I don't see what O Se offers the current Mayo team.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 02, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
no body takes Indiana seriously on this board anymore.As usual wrong about the black card rule.Well done to Dublin but this will be a hard one to take over the long winter.It did pop into my head after the drawn game re Hennelly and his kick outs being better then Clarkes but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would play.Clarke has a huge presence in the Mayo goals and offers peace of mind which is hard to quantify.His all star is now probably gone but I am sure thats the last thing on his mind right now.
I take myself very seriously here because all my points are correct as usual.
As a neutral who had a very good view of it, I also actually thought it wasn't a penalty; Hennelly fumbled the ball, fell over backwards and palmed the ball to a teammate in the same movement. Dub player tried to intervene and manufactured a topple-over. Dublin player was never in possession or likely to get possession of the ball.
Mayo chucked Barry Moran into full forward with ten to go, but the players kept running at Dublin, and running into trouble. If you put Moran into full forward it's time for the high diagonal pass, otherwise why put him in. Dillon hit one in after he came on, think he was subbed in after Moran and seemed to know what the plan was, but most of the rest just ignored him, or hit a ball low in front of him which he'll never get. I swear to God I thought he might have flicked one to the net with 30 seconds to go and we could've all went crazy - but the pass never came.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 02, 2016, 10:11:12 PM
Mayo chucked Barry Moran into full forward with ten to go, but the players kept running at Dublin, and running into trouble. If you put Moran into full forward it's time for the high diagonal pass, otherwise why put him in. Dillon hit one in after he came on, think he was subbed in after Moran and seemed to know what the plan was, but most of the rest just ignored him, or hit a ball low in front of him which he'll never get. I swear to God I thought he might have flicked one to the net with 30 seconds to go and we could've all went crazy - but the pass never came.
Over the last 5 years this Mayo team have 'looked' best when running the ball. However when we did that we tended to give away soft goals. Under Rochford we tightened up at the back but did not make supporting runs from the back with the same abandon that created scoring chances. You simply cant do both. The forward runs are more sparing and when they happen they have to be clinical. Keegan and Durcan were clinical yesterday but the absence of Vaughan and Keegan down the stretch was a killer. Maybe Barrett could have been used earlier cause he can pick a run and finish.
I wasn t gone on the Barry Moran approach to things but think to blame lack of quality in Mayo attack is too simplistic. Both sets of forwards struggled for the most part as they were outnumbered. No more than the Mayo forwards quality players like Mannion and Andrews found the going tough. McManamon had a lot of joy running at the defence but found shooting spave difficult to find as well. Costello did well and found space when he was introduced but I suspect that he would have fared little better than the others if he started. Brogan got no joy the first day either. Telling that Brogan and Costello kicked 3 early points after being introduced before Mayo sorted out who was doing what with them. Any of the so called marquee forwards around the country would also have struggled to make a mark in these games.
Only 4 teams have managed to play the game at this intensity since it moved up a notch again last 4/5 years. Most teams can t live with Dublin even before they get serious about things.
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
In a way Mayo did really well to be so close to a team that blew away most of the other competitors when you think that Mayo haven't much if an up front threat. If Mayo find two absolute top drawer forwards they'd have won that and they could utilize Aiden O'Shea more effectively.
Are you serious juice? Surely you know better than that.
Absolute top drawer forwards! Find them in one county!?
I' ll put it this way. I doubt we could buy them if it were possible. We saw 3 top Dublin forwards the last 2 games struggle when they started those matches. Brogan, Andrews and Mannion. People crazily putting those down to having a poor day. There isn't a forward anywhere that would have got much change out of those 2 defences.
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Quote from: mouview on October 02, 2016, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 02, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
no body takes Indiana seriously on this board anymore.As usual wrong about the black card rule.Well done to Dublin but this will be a hard one to take over the long winter.It did pop into my head after the drawn game re Hennelly and his kick outs being better then Clarkes but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would play.Clarke has a huge presence in the Mayo goals and offers peace of mind which is hard to quantify.His all star is now probably gone but I am sure thats the last thing on his mind right now.
I take myself very seriously here because all my points are correct as usual.
As a neutral who had a very good view of it, I also actually thought it wasn't a penalty; Hennelly fumbled the ball, fell over backwards and palmed the ball to a teammate in the same movement. Dub player tried to intervene and manufactured a topple-over. Dublin player was never in possession or likely to get possession of the ball.
My initial impression from behind the goal was that Hennelly both played the ball and got something on the ball.
The replays look pretty damning but there wasn't one from behind.
I don't think it should have been a black card, although it's hard to argue that Hennelly going off actually hurt Mayo.
Don't particularly want to watch the tape but can somebody clear this up for me.
Deegan gave Vaughan and Connolly yellow cards before half time....put the yellow back in card holder and then went to Small and produced another yellow from another pocket of the card holder??
Did I imagine that on the big screen?
Was sure it was a red when he went for another slot for the card.
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Ciaran Whelan and other ex Dublin players have been working hard for the last two weeks bad mouthing Keegan, it seems to have worked.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2016, 11:09:33 PM
Quote from: mouview on October 02, 2016, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 02, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
no body takes Indiana seriously on this board anymore.As usual wrong about the black card rule.Well done to Dublin but this will be a hard one to take over the long winter.It did pop into my head after the drawn game re Hennelly and his kick outs being better then Clarkes but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would play.Clarke has a huge presence in the Mayo goals and offers peace of mind which is hard to quantify.His all star is now probably gone but I am sure thats the last thing on his mind right now.
I take myself very seriously here because all my points are correct as usual.
As a neutral who had a very good view of it, I also actually thought it wasn't a penalty; Hennelly fumbled the ball, fell over backwards and palmed the ball to a teammate in the same movement. Dub player tried to intervene and manufactured a topple-over. Dublin player was never in possession or likely to get possession of the ball.
My initial impression from behind the goal was that Hennelly both played the ball and got something on the ball.
The replays look pretty damning but there wasn't one from behind.
I don't think it should have been a black card, although it's hard to argue that Hennelly going off actually hurt Mayo.
A brother text me form a different part of ground at half time that Hennelly needed to be subbed. I replied that it couldn t happen as we already used 2 subs and besides you never see a goalie subbed during a game. Tonight on Newstalk Anthony Moyles said that he thought that Hennelly looked shot going off at ht.
It's a huge talking point and both in and outside the county it is seen as a catastrophic call by management. Most worrying for Rochford going forward is that people believe that he was browbeaten into the change and had come under pressure to go with Hennelly for the first match.
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
In a way Mayo did really well to be so close to a team that blew away most of the other competitors when you think that Mayo haven't much if an up front threat. If Mayo find two absolute top drawer forwards they'd have won that and they could utilize Aiden O'Shea more effectively.
Are you serious juice? Surely you know better than that.
Absolute top drawer forwards! Find them in one county!?
I' ll put it this way. I doubt we could buy them if it were possible. We saw 3 top Dublin forwards the last 2 games struggle when they started those matches. Brogan, Andrews and Mannion. People crazily putting those down to having a poor day. There isn't a forward anywhere that would have got much change out of those 2 defences.
Cummins and Comer would add something to that Mayo forward line. Give me the f#cking ball forwards are always handy
Quote from: Halfquarter on October 02, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Ciaran Whelan and other ex Dublin players have been working hard for the last two weeks bad mouthing Keegan, it seems to have worked.
Of course it worked. Had to smile when I heard Whelan say that Keegan thing was not a black. When the cup is in the bag you can hand out all the platitudes you want. Job well done Ciarán and co.
While we shot ourselves in the foot again having 2 of the 3 most important officials from Leinster reeks of bad practice. Anybody who imagines that Dublin did not benefit form the big calls need to go and boil their heads.
Quote from: ballinaman on October 02, 2016, 11:14:57 PM
Don't particularly want to watch the tape but can somebody clear this up for me.
Deegan gave Vaughan and Connolly yellow cards before half time....put the yellow back in card holder and then went to Small and produced another yellow from another pocket of the card holder??
Did I imagine that on the big screen?
Was sure it was a red when he went for another slot for the card.
He put the card back alright having dealt with Connolly and Vaughan .... it looked like he needed to put the card away to write Small's name into the book before showing him the card
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2016, 11:27:12 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
In a way Mayo did really well to be so close to a team that blew away most of the other competitors when you think that Mayo haven't much if an up front threat. If Mayo find two absolute top drawer forwards they'd have won that and they could utilize Aiden O'Shea more effectively.
Are you serious juice? Surely you know better than that.
Absolute top drawer forwards! Find them in one county!?
I' ll put it this way. I doubt we could buy them if it were possible. We saw 3 top Dublin forwards the last 2 games struggle when they started those matches. Brogan, Andrews and Mannion. People crazily putting those down to having a poor day. There isn't a forward anywhere that would have got much change out of those 2 defences.
Cummins and Comer would add something to that Mayo forward line. Give me the f#cking ball forwards are always handy
You're joking right? If not this is the perfect example of people not knowing what they were looking at. Danny would be like a fly hitting a windscreen against that Dublin defence. Hey. he would struggle to get anything off them in March. Comer wouldn't fare much better and probably wouldn t last pissing time before losing the head and picking up a card.
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:35:42 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 02, 2016, 11:14:57 PM
Don't particularly want to watch the tape but can somebody clear this up for me.
Deegan gave Vaughan and Connolly yellow cards before half time....put the yellow back in card holder and then went to Small and produced another yellow from another pocket of the card holder??
Did I imagine that on the big screen?
Was sure it was a red when he went for another slot for the card.
He put the card back alright having dealt with Connolly and Vaughan .... it looked like he needed to put the card away to write Small's name into the book before showing him the card
Sound, he must have flipped the book so hence I thought he took it from a different pocket.
Deegan the magician is something I can't accuse him of being. Shame
I was sure that Small was going to get a red card as well after he put the yellow back in his pocket. The rumors are going to be flying from now till eternity about the goalie change but for what ever reason I am sure Rochsford felt it would be an advantage to his team.Did read in the Mayo News on friday night that Hennelly was warming up with a few min. to go in the drawn game and seemed ready to come on.Even that was an eyeopener for me as I could see no reason for making a change like that so late in the game.I suppose that was the hint that it had been on managements mind all along.
For what it's worth I offer these few opinions.
1. Black card is broke, we had the sin bin and it was voted out.
2. Small shud have got a black.
3. Cooper was unlucky could have got away with it but was likely seething from being clattered after Mayo goal which added to his frustration.
4. Boyle was unlucky in my view. Whilst he was trying initially to grab de jersey which is not a black card, he had let go and Connolly's momentum resulted in him on the ground.
5. It was a peno but I can only be sure after looking again and if anyone tells me it wasn't and they were sure in real time they are doting, especially if they were in de Upper Decks. Oh and black is correct.
6. Connolly and Vaughan could have got black cards for their altercation, Vaughan more so for what could be construed a foot trip, Connolly for barging into him but it didn't take him from the play so on balance correct.
On refs and indeed any ref I am sure having 82,000 'experts' in de stand is daunting and the noise at pitch level adds to it. I am sure Deegan arose yesterday determined to do his best. He got some right and some wrong and that is life. The screaming and shouting when he gave a free against Dublin for a non competing player fetching the ball shows ignorance of the rules and having a go when the kick outs are taken and the receiver is less than 13m away which he can be if he was when the ball was kicked again shows poor rule knowledge. I feel the Media and by extension everyone else is focusing too much on the refs and decisions made. We are gone very Soccer like in this regards and it's not good. It makes for good TV. Ultimately Dublin repelled a great Mayo team, one I would love to see win Sam, but my allegiances are blue. Mayo will be back but they must unearth a few scoring forwards to progress. Dublin deserve huge credit for seeing off Donegal, Kerry and Mayo twice. Mayo the same for putting Tyrone to the sword, arguably their best performance before these two games came along.
Quote from: maigheo on October 02, 2016, 11:52:13 PM
I was sure that Small was going to get a red card as well after he put the yellow back in his pocket. The rumors are going to be flying from now till eternity about the goalie change but for what ever reason I am sure Rochsford felt it would be an advantage to his team.Did read in the Mayo News on friday night that Hennelly was warming up with a few min. to go in the drawn game and seemed ready to come on.Even that was an eyeopener for me as I could see no reason for making a change like that so late in the game.I suppose that was the hint that it had been on managements mind all along.
It appears the decision was made shortly after the drawn match. Anyway no way that Hennelly would have been landed with starting the night before the game or anything. This Mayo camp is tight and little leaks out but management are very thorough and Hennelly wasn't just landed with this. Makes it all more depressing that he was like a bag of nails from the start.
I still think it was a crazy call. Clarke had a wobble with kick-outs in drawn but movement had dried up for him as well amd surely management should have worked sorting out that rather than throwing the baby out of the bath water. I would give management some slack if they were bringing in a steady keeper but Hennelly has also has issues with kick-outs in the past - one of which turned the Galway game. He's also had a costly history dealing with long ball coming into his space.
On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.
Quote
Who was our MOTM against Dublin?
Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 03, 2016, 12:55:45 AM
On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.
Quote
Who was our MOTM against Dublin?
Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes
Dublin voters.
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.
They were unlucky. Victory can look inevitable in hindsight and there are many Dublin supporters who think the result was predestined but Mayo could easily have won that given one or two breaks.
However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.
On the other hand Deegan bottled it completely on Small. A far clearer case. Simple cowardice on Deegan's part.
On another point I have to agree with those who thought this was a high quality game. It was immense. I have many good memories of the old days but standards were not higher and in many cases were much lower.
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 01:29:40 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.
They were unlucky. Victory can look inevitable in hindsight and there are many Dublin supporters who think the result was predestined but Mayo could easily have won that given one or two breaks.
However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.
On the other hand Deegan bottled it completely on Small. A far clearer case. Simple cowardice on Deegan's part.
On another point I have to agree with those who thought this was a high quality game. It was immense. I have many good memories of the old days but standards were not higher and in many cases were much lower.
The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway) and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 01:54:36 AM
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 01:29:40 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.
However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.
The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway) and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.
You prompted me to look up the rule. I'm not so sure I can agree that it's clear!
The summary on gaa.ie says its for cynical fouls:
"Deliberately pull down an opponent.
Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
Deliberately body collide [the official guide just says "collide"] with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official."
Small's case must be exhibit A (I think), or what's the point of the rule? If he must get off because he grabbed an ankle not to pull down Moran but instead stop him scoring a goal, then there's something amiss. Maybe the third part is the one that fits: he has acted for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play. (Is grabbing someone's ankle a "body collide"? Debatable.) If he intended to trip, then the second part fits, but did he? He acted deliberately to hold Moran back, sure, but trip him? Debatable again.
I'd prefer to judge Small as deliberately taking Moran out of a movement of play, with a broad definition of "collide". The alternative of judging it not a black card seems to be too literalist.
Keegan was deliberately keeping Connolly out of a movement of play--I assume that's not in dispute. Did he "collide" with him enough to qualify for a black card? I'd say yes--it wouldn't have been outrageous if he had gotten away with it but all the same he seemed to cross a line.
(Hennelly? Hmm.)
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 03:18:05 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 01:54:36 AM
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 01:29:40 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.
However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.
The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway) and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.
You prompted me to look up the rule. I'm not so sure I can agree that it's clear!
The summary on gaa.ie says its for cynical fouls:
"Deliberately pull down an opponent.
Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
Deliberately body collide [the official guide just says "collide"] with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official."
Small's case must be exhibit A (I think), or what's the point of the rule? If he must get off because he grabbed an ankle not to pull down Moran but instead stop him scoring a goal, then there's something amiss. Maybe the third part is the one that fits: he has acted for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play. (Is grabbing someone's ankle a "body collide"? Debatable.) If he intended to trip, then the second part fits, but did he? He acted deliberately to hold Moran back, sure, but trip him? Debatable again.
I'd prefer to judge Small as deliberately taking Moran out of a movement of play, with a broad definition of "collide". The alternative of judging it not a black card seems to be too literalist.
Keegan was deliberately keeping Connolly out of a movement of play--I assume that's not in dispute. Did he "collide" with him enough to qualify for a black card? I'd say yes--it wouldn't have been outrageous if he had gotten away with it but all the same he seemed to cross a line.
(Hennelly? Hmm.)
Connolly strongly remonstrated to get Keegan a black.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 03, 2016, 12:55:45 AM
On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.
Quote
Who was our MOTM against Dublin?
Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes
You seriously think ALL voters are Mayo people?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
Exactly, I tell you if it was the other way around or Connolly did that there would be blue murder. People see what they want to see, of course the sour grapers will blame the ref, but look back at it again, twice. I suppose the sour grapers and begrudgers would say the ref help Dublin win 4 AIs in 6 years, 4 national leagues and 6 Leinsters too.
Dublin, greatest team ever to play the game, all good guys too, hard luck Mayo, I cant imagine the pain of it.
Club championship next weekend so no rest.
Too all other begrudgers on this site and elsewhere, enjoy the winter!
A friend text me on Saturday morning about the rumoured selection of Hennelly ahead of Clarke. It was the first I'd heard about it but my reaction straight away was that it was good news for Dublin.
Have seen him in action a good bit and (no more than a lot of our keepers in Galway) he always seem to have one or two big mistakes per game in him.
Clarke much more solid. One or two kickouts went astray towards the end of the drawn game but other than that he was extremely solid (plus he made 2 outstanding point blank saves) and almost always is.
For the life of me I couldn't get my head around why they would make that change. It's not as if Clarke's kickouts are terrible.
Another thing that surprised me - Barry Moran was on the pitch for the last 20 minutes of the game & cited in front of the Dublin goal along with O'Shea.
Mayo got one dubious enough free from a long ball into him.
Other than that - they barely kicked a ball into the goalmouth. I haven't watched the game back but that was impression at the time anyway. Why bring him on and have the 2 big men in there and then use the tactic so sparingly?
There's no getting around the goalkeeper change it was a ludicrous call, we have no recognized full-back so Clarke was vital in this regard, the backs trust him under high ball he commands the square. It led to the concession of a number of scores and unsettled the team. Keegan would probably have gone on to be motm if he hadn't gone off, he should never have been put in that position. If the management were so daring as to drop Clarke how come they didn't have the balls to whip Hennelly off at half-time, he was in meltdown mode at that stage.
Don't have the enthusiasm to write a big post, but I'd agree with what you said there galwayman, I couldn't (and still can't) see why the decision to change keeper's made sense.
Clarke is so dependable and has been all year. A couple of kick-outs went astray at the end of the drawn game, but he kept us in that game. Goalkeeping isn't just about kickouts (despite recent fad), and as you said, Robbie has an unfortunate history of at least one major mistake in most games. It happened again, and his kickouts didn't bring any benefit. Massive price paid.
Congrats to the Dubs - they were slightly better team all through in reality, but we really couldn't afford to hurt ourselves like that.
People will always see the worse in ref for their own team.
But nobody outside of Mayo will really have an issue with Deegan in that regard. It's challenging with all that goes on in a game to see everything and get it all right. In a game like Saturday you can only take it like the rugby refs and hope that ref is sympathetic to run of the game.
There is no doubt that Rochford has brought a newer, more steely approach to Mayo game. It is possibly at the expense of attack but finite resources and all that. He will have goalkeeping question hanging over him as it is difficult to understand and certainly seemed to backfire. Sometimes these tactical types go too far and box a bit too clever.... Hopefully he (and panel) can see this year in isolation and not part of a longer pattern of failure. Otherwise the psychological baggage will be huge.
/Jim.
Quote from: galwayman on October 03, 2016, 09:20:21 AM
A friend text me on Saturday morning about the rumoured selection of Hennelly ahead of Clarke. It was the first I'd heard about it but my reaction straight away was that it was good news for Dublin.
Have seen him in action a good bit and (no more than a lot of our keepers in Galway) he always seem to have one or two big mistakes per game in him.
Clarke much more solid. One or two kickouts went astray towards the end of the drawn game but other than that he was extremely solid (plus he made 2 outstanding point blank saves) and almost always is.
For the life of me I couldn't get my head around why they would make that change. It's not as if Clarke's kickouts are terrible.
Another thing that surprised me - Barry Moran was on the pitch for the last 20 minutes of the game & cited in front of the Dublin goal along with O'Shea.
Mayo got one dubious enough free from a long ball into him.
Other than that - they barely kicked a ball into the goalmouth. I haven't watched the game back but that was impression at the time anyway. Why bring him on and have the 2 big men in there and then use the tactic so sparingly?
They ran it too much I think. But they are so close
I think they put a lot of notions about Mayo to bed this year.
I hope they do it next year
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
He shouldered him for christ sake. Not to dissimilar to the kind of shoulder Johnny loves to dish out but without the goal post to collide with. If Cooper hadn't of made such a meal of it (yet again trying to get players sent off) he may have avoided a black a couple of minutes later. Deegan must have been saying wtf when he saw Cooper making the Lazarus like recovery and bombing up the pitch in the next move after needing 2 medical staff to help him off the ground
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
Really? For a deliberate body collision?
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 09:49:03 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
Really? For a deliberate body collision?
Well such carry on. A deliberate body collision in a game of gaelic football. Down with that sort of thing
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 09:41:38 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
He shouldered him for christ sake. Not to dissimilar to the kind of shoulder Johnny loves to dish out but without the goal post to collide with. If Cooper hadn't of made such a meal of it (yet again trying to get players sent off) he may have avoided a black a couple of minutes later. Deegan must have been saying wtf when he saw Cooper making the Lazarus like recovery and bombing up the pitch in the next move after needing 2 medical staff to help him off the ground
Please explain how you can shoulder someone when you charge into them from behind?
The rule states: 'Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play'
Not a black card for Doherty but should have been a yellow.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 09:41:38 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
He shouldered him for christ sake. Not to dissimilar to the kind of shoulder Johnny loves to dish out but without the goal post to collide with. If Cooper hadn't of made such a meal of it (yet again trying to get players sent off) he may have avoided a black a couple of minutes later. Deegan must have been saying wtf when he saw Cooper making the Lazarus like recovery and bombing up the pitch in the next move after needing 2 medical staff to help him off the ground
Please explain how you can shoulder someone when you charge into them from behind?
Please explain how a man can receive such severe injuries as cooper seemingly did and then make such a recovery
Ah come on - are you really suggesting a red card for the Doherty incident?
He followed through and shoved Cooper who went to ground.
Definitely he should have got a yellow but you think that was a red card offence?
The single biggest problem with refereeing in the gaa at the moment is the lack of understanding of the rules BY SUPPORTERS! In the last 3/4 pages of this thread alone there have been some posters proving that they don't know/understand the rules.
TV pundits that don't know/understand the rules shouldn't be allowed on tv.
Ger canning even pointed out to Martin Carney about cooper's black card that it was the rule!
Also, a lot of people saying that Clarke is very solid keeper etc. but don't forget it wan't just the kickouts the first day. He came for a ball about 20yards from goal and challenged Dean Rock and ended up giving away a free. It could easily have resulted in a goal for dublin. He wasn't as solid as some people seem to be remembering from the first day. Also, if he panicked with the kickouts towards the end of the game what is to say that he wouldn't have a meltdown again at a crucial stage in the replay? Now I wouldn't have dropped him myself because I think he is better keeper than Hennelly, but I can understand the logic from Rochford.
Firstly, hard luck to the Mayo posters on here.
Haven't seen any highlights of the game, but thought each and every one of our subs brought something to the table when they came on and for that the Manager must take great credit.
Thought Cluxton was immense yesterday as he has been all season imo ( bar 10 mins in AISF) . Have to say , I would not like to be in the Dublin full back line with those kick outs coming your way with no margin for errors. One of the very few players who has changed the role of a football position so much. Maybe Paul Curran as an attacking wing back, Brian Dooher/ Paul Galvin as the up and down the pitch wing forwards or Sean Cavanagh likewise as midfielder.
Didn't see the card or non card issues or replays but in real time from the Canal End the Keegan black card looked a definite one.
Have to say that I have a major issue with CP not showing replays on the screen of so called contentious issues. Fans have paid serious money to get in and imo deserve better. If a supporter or supporter get het up afterwards, then they can be ejected from the grounds. Why should the people watching at home get the benefit of replays only?
Will be very curious next year to see whether the 6 minutes additional time is added on in most games or just for AIFs. Very annoyed with the extra 2 minutes added on to the additional time at the end.
Anyway, congrats to the lads and once again hard luck to the Mayo posters here.
Quote from: Canalman on October 03, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Will be very curious next year to see whether the 6 minutes additional time is added on in most games or just for AIFs. Very annoyed with the extra 2 minutes added on to the additional time at the end.
It has been like that all championship. Refs were instructed to play more reflective additional time.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 10:22:36 AM
Quote from: Canalman on October 03, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Will be very curious next year to see whether the 6 minutes additional time is added on in most games or just for AIFs. Very annoyed with the extra 2 minutes added on to the additional time at the end.
It has been like that all championship. Refs were instructed to play more reflective additional time.
And rightly so I feel.
I would have now problem with this as long as it is done consitently
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 09:41:38 AM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2016, 08:18:44 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
You're not allowed ask those questions
If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.
He shouldered him for christ sake. Not to dissimilar to the kind of shoulder Johnny loves to dish out but without the goal post to collide with. If Cooper hadn't of made such a meal of it (yet again trying to get players sent off) he may have avoided a black a couple of minutes later. Deegan must have been saying wtf when he saw Cooper making the Lazarus like recovery and bombing up the pitch in the next move after needing 2 medical staff to help him off the ground
the ball was not in play so it wasn't a third man tackle . may have been a red of yellow if you ignore all precedent but could not have been a black
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 03, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 03, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.
The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.
Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?
I know you're only throwing it out as a whataboutery strawman because you can't defend the Connolly non-card, but it the hit after the goal was yellow card territory.
Quote from: Canalman on October 03, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Thought Cluxton was immense yesterday as he has been all season imo ( bar 10 mins in AISF) .
I was at that game
That was down to the Dublin backs not paying attention to the kickouts
As you say, there is no margin for error when playing this system but Dublin do it so well
Canal man, its now an 80 minute game. Its that simple.
I was also very annoyed at the extra 2 mins like the ref was letting them play on to see if they could engineer a point or free, if that ball wasn't turned over at the moment he would played on more.
It is always gonna be a hard match to ref as both teams really don't like each other and know each other so well at this stage but you would expect the ref of his experience to at least show consistency. To miss the first foot trip by Small seemed amazing to me whereas I thought he did well to spot the Cooper one as it looked a lot more congested with bodies around.
Did anyone else notice that with Keegan's card that Connolly was going apeshite to get him sent off waving a card but you can see the ref shaking his head saying NO and shows a tug on his jersey. But then after a lot of walking around and thinking he eventually calls over Keegan and gives him the black card. It was as if he was waiting on a TMO or someone from the line to tell him. Personally I thought it was a yellow as he did have hands over Connolly but he didn't drag him down to the ground but Connolly was smart enough to go to ground once he knew Keegan's hands were on him. Keegan took it well and shrugged his shoulders and walked off without any complaints.
I was very disappointed with Aidan O'Shea again and can't understand he doesn't shoot more. The ball that he won to set up the goal was good but why didn't they use that much more.
Fair play to Mayo as they showed the rest of us Dublin aren't that far ahead of the pack and held a lot of Dublin's forwards to low scores. Dean Rock was back on form and that was the main difference in the teams I felt.
Small's non-black was more a black than Cooper's imo.
Quote from: Canalman on October 03, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Firstly, hard luck to the Mayo posters on here.
Haven't seen any highlights of the game, but thought each and every one of our subs brought something to the table when they came on and for that the Manager must take great credit.
Thought Cluxton was immense yesterday as he has been all season imo ( bar 10 mins in AISF) . Have to say , I would not like to be in the Dublin full back line with those kick outs coming your way with no margin for errors. One of the very few players who has changed the role of a football position so much. Maybe Paul Curran as an attacking wing back, Brian Dooher/ Paul Galvin as the up and down the pitch wing forwards or Sean Cavanagh likewise as midfielder.
Didn't see the card or non card issues or replays but in real time from the Canal End the Keegan black card looked a definite one.
Have to say that I have a major issue with CP not showing replays on the screen of so called contentious issues. Fans have paid serious money to get in and imo deserve better. If a supporter or supporter get het up afterwards, then they can be ejected from the grounds. Why should the people watching at home get the benefit of replays only?
Will be very curious next year to see whether the 6 minutes additional time is added on in most games or just for AIFs. Very annoyed with the extra 2 minutes added on to the additional time at the end.
Anyway, congrats to the lads and once again hard luck to the Mayo posters here.
I would assume the reason for this is to give the refs a break instead of showing them their mistake in glorious technicolor while the fans bay for blood.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
Did anyone else notice that with Keegan's card that Connolly was going apeshite to get him sent off waving a card but you can see the ref shaking his head saying NO and shows a tug on his jersey. But then after a lot of walking around and thinking he eventually calls over Keegan and gives him the black card.
Yes, Deegan initially indicated that jersey was pulled (i.e.: he used one hand to simulate a jersey pull) ..... then Connolly got in on the act with a big whinge and when Deegan issued the black he indicated that it was for pulling down (i.e.: Deegan used to 2 hands to indicate a downward pulling motion).
Why and what changed his mind ? Answer is pretty clear
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
Did anyone else notice that with Keegan's card that Connolly was going apeshite to get him sent off waving a card but you can see the ref shaking his head saying NO and shows a tug on his jersey. But then after a lot of walking around and thinking he eventually calls over Keegan and gives him the black card.
Yes, Deegan initially indicated that jersey was pulled (i.e.: he used one hand to simulate a jersey pull) ..... then Connolly got in on the act with a big whinge and when Deegan issued the black he indicated that it was for pulling down (i.e.: Deegan used to 2 hands to indicate a downward pulling motion).
Why and what changed his mind ? Answer is pretty clear
No Connolly acted up because hes been dragged around the place for the last two years by Keegan
live by the sword
Cillian OConnor should also stick to playing football he would be a better player
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
Did anyone else notice that with Keegan's card that Connolly was going apeshite to get him sent off waving a card but you can see the ref shaking his head saying NO and shows a tug on his jersey. But then after a lot of walking around and thinking he eventually calls over Keegan and gives him the black card.
Great spot - think you are the only person saw that - well saw!!
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
Did anyone else notice that with Keegan's card that Connolly was going apeshite to get him sent off waving a card but you can see the ref shaking his head saying NO and shows a tug on his jersey. But then after a lot of walking around and thinking he eventually calls over Keegan and gives him the black card.
Yes, Deegan initially indicated that jersey was pulled (i.e.: he used one hand to simulate a jersey pull) ..... then Connolly got in on the act with a big whinge and when Deegan issued the black he indicated that it was for pulling down (i.e.: Deegan used to 2 hands to indicate a downward pulling motion).
Why and what changed his mind ? Answer is pretty clear
Indeed. So much about remonstrating aggressively to an official part of the black card...
Before someone pulls me up and accuses me of sour grapes, well yes, they are as sour as hell. If you know me well enough you'll know that I do get rather het up over little decisions, especially since the margins Mayo lost by were so small.
I did notice the 'jersey pull' sign at the time and I taut he was not getting a black. Yes Connolly was animated but no more so than many others, on both sides. For fans to say it wasn't a black with the benefit of replays highlights that the ref has to make up his mind there and then. I have said before the ref tries to do the best he can and I believe Deegan did on Sunday but made some mistakes. That's sport and it's unfortunate. As a Dub I am quite happy to reiterate that Keegan was harshly done by.
I do agree with all that the black cards are a complete joke, its a very difficult rule to manage and is left to the interpretation of the referee and its not always clear cut either. quite difficult. Small and O Loughlin should have seen black by the rule book. Keegans was harsh as was McCarthy's the first day out.
It needs to be done away with immediately for the sake of the game.
Of the five 'cynical' offenses that are punishable by the black card, I would argue that it works very well for the 'deliberate body collide' (3rd man tackle) and the 'deliberate trip'.
The vast majority of the contentious decisions relate to the 'deliberate pull down' due to the nature of the tackle, which is very much open to interpretation; and it's rarely used to police verbal abuse or remonstrating with officials.
Maybe we need to give this a bit of thought to avoid a baby/bathwater situation.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
Of the five 'cynical' offenses that are punishable by the black card, I would argue that it works very well for the 'deliberate body collide' (3rd man tackle) and the 'deliberate trip'.
The vast majority of the contentious decisions relate to the 'deliberate pull down' due to the nature of the tackle, which is very much open to interpretation; and it's rarely used to police verbal abuse or remonstrating with officials.
Maybe we need to give this a bit of thought to avoid a baby/bathwater situation.
Very sensible comment.
Here is the Lee Keegan black card.
https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464 (https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464)
Now, think back to the Sean Cavanagh tackle on Conor McManus which is the very definition of a 'deliberate pull down'.
Watch the Keegan incident and ignore him altogether.
Just watch Connolly.
He is not pulled down.
I'm not even all that sure he's being fouled, but the hand over the shoulder probably merits a free-in at most.
At no point does Keegan make contact with him below the shoulder.
How can you deliberately pull someone down without actually pulling them at any point?
Connolly goes to ground of his own volition.
So, again we come back to enforcement, and this was clearly an incorrect decision by Deegan.
Would the players have got onto Gough or Coldrick to the same extent looking for a black card?
I don't think so, but even if they did, I don't think it would sway their decision.
I think it was a foul, that connolly made the most of, certainly not a black card.
The one by John Small was most certainly a black card.
The Cooper one probably was by the letter of the law but is debatable.
The trouble is, these decisions are just too hard to call in real time alot of the time and have led to a huge amount of wrong decisions over the course of the championship.
These are the countries top referees we are talking about that are struggling with it, anyone involved in club football over the last wile can see how bad it has become.
Eamon McGee put it well on twitter the other day
'On the black card its a bit like communism, great idea on paper but impossible to implement.'
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
Here is the Lee Keegan black card.
https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464 (https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464)
Now, think back to the Sean Cavanagh tackle on Conor McManus which is the very definition of a 'deliberate pull down'.
Watch the Keegan incident and ignore him altogether.
Just watch Connolly.
He is not pulled down.
I'm not even all that sure he's being fouled, but the hand over the shoulder probably merits a free-in at most.
At no point does Keegan make contact with him below the shoulder.
How can you deliberately pull someone down without actually pulling them at any point?
Connolly goes to ground of his own volition.
So, again we come back to enforcement, and this was clearly an incorrect decision by Deegan.
Would the players have got onto Gough or Coldrick to the same extent looking for a black card?
I don't think so, but even if they did, I don't think it would sway their decision.
I hadn't seen it up until this. Jesus Christ... imagine the uproar from the Dubs if they had lost by a point and Keegan had made a meal of things to get Connolly a black card!
Anyway, it makes no difference now, the game is over.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 03, 2016, 11:57:19 AM
I think it was a foul, that connolly made the most of, certainly not a black card.
The one by John Small was most certainly a black card.
The Cooper one probably was by the letter of the law but is debatable.
The trouble is, these decisions are just too hard to call in real time alot of the time and have led to a huge amount of wrong decisions over the course of the championship.
These are the countries top referees we are talking about that are struggling with it, anyone involved in club football over the last wile can see how bad it has become.
Eamon McGee put it well on twitter the other day
'On the black card its a bit like communism, great idea on paper but impossible to implement.'
To be brutally honest I have seen the black card better implemented at club level.
Some amount of "mouths" have been blackcarded at adult club level. Really imo anyway has improved the game.
Major problem is at the elite level, players are well able to "disguise" the deliberateness of what they are doing.
Quote from: bannside on October 02, 2016, 10:29:15 AM
Plus One.
Probably the most intense atmospheric and exhilarating match I have seen. Both teams going full pelt. Fitness levels unreal with big hits going in all over the pitch in what was arguably the hardest physical battle ever in a final.
Those who say this match was drab don't understand it. Two fantastic teams going toe to toe. I think it was a classic that will be talked about for years.
Agreed, thought it was a absolutely epic battle and fair play to both teams.
Was in the far reaches of remote Donegal with barely a TV signal, never mind internet, so had a read through the thread this morning...what is the craic with posters being so sore on Cillian O'Connor? Aiden O'Shea abuse isn't far behind. As football men, they should be given a bit more respect imo. The sacrifices, pressure etc etc
Players are so strong through the core & legs now that anything short of a rugby tackle will not bring them to the ground.
It baffles me how refs can still give out black cards for the soccer style 'knee-drop' dives.
Keegan basically fell on top of Connolly because instead of keeping his feet he decided to hit the deck.
Now Connolly would argue that he was being impeded so he was entitled to look for the free but we are getting into dangerous territory there.
How many times have we heard a pundit on Match of the Day say after a dodgy penalty, "There was contact..."
So what!
It's a contact sport ffs and 'contact' does not always equal 'foul'.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 03, 2016, 11:57:19 AM
I think it was a foul, that connolly made the most of, certainly not a black card.
The one by John Small was most certainly a black card.
The Cooper one probably was by the letter of the law but is debatable.
The trouble is, these decisions are just too hard to call in real time alot of the time and have led to a huge amount of wrong decisions over the course of the championship.
These are the countries top referees we are talking about that are struggling with it, anyone involved in club football over the last wile can see how bad it has become.
Eamon McGee put it well on twitter the other day
'On the black card its a bit like communism, great idea on paper but impossible to implement.'
I disagree that these were difficult to call in real time. I was in the upper tier of the hogan and in real time it was obvious that small and cooper were black cards and keegans wasn't!
I haven't yet seen replays of some of the other incidents - should dublin have had a second penalty? Should mayo have had a penalty for a foul on Aidan o'Shea?
Quote from: Canalman on October 03, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Firstly, hard luck to the Mayo posters on here.
Haven't seen any highlights of the game, but thought each and every one of our subs brought something to the table when they came on and for that the Manager must take great credit.
Thought Cluxton was immense yesterday as he has been all season imo ( bar 10 mins in AISF) . Have to say , I would not like to be in the Dublin full back line with those kick outs coming your way with no margin for errors. One of the very few players who has changed the role of a football position so much. Maybe Paul Curran as an attacking wing back, Brian Dooher/ Paul Galvin as the up and down the pitch wing forwards or Sean Cavanagh likewise as midfielder.
Didn't see the card or non card issues or replays but in real time from the Canal End the Keegan black card looked a definite one.
Have to say that I have a major issue with CP not showing replays on the screen of so called contentious issues. Fans have paid serious money to get in and imo deserve better. If a supporter or supporter get het up afterwards, then they can be ejected from the grounds. Why should the people watching at home get the benefit of replays only?
Will be very curious next year to see whether the 6 minutes additional time is added on in most games or just for AIFs. Very annoyed with the extra 2 minutes added on to the additional time at the end.
Anyway, congrats to the lads and once again hard luck to the Mayo posters here.
God bless you Canalman but you must have the eyes of a hawk to be able to see what's going on at the butt of the Hill from the Canal End. You might be able to make some bit of pocket-money out in the Middle East doing a bit of sniping for the Yanks.
As for the cards themselves, Tubberman is right. It's all over now. Congratulations to Dublin, hard luck Mayo, roll on 2017.
There isn't much to feel happy about in the wake of Saturday's defeat but Seamie's display was a revelation and helped to ease the pain a bit for me. One positive I could take from the game anyway.
It was clear that someone had taken him aside after the drawn game and got him to work on his passing skills, or indeed his lack of them.
For me, he was the most effective Mayo player on view, whereas, IMO, he was firmly rooted at the bottom in the previous game. I guess a small bit of coaching worked wonders and improved his game no end.
Now, what I'm getting at here is the fact that it seems that neither Clarke nor Hennelly has ever worked on fine-tuning their kick outs. Sure Bob could be depended on to hoof a few agricultural kicks well downfield but they seldom if ever went where he wanted them to go.
Neither would be anywhere near Cluxton's standard.
John Leonard, Cluxton's understudy for a while, was quoted in Saturday's Star where he spoke about Clucko's attention to detail.
Leonard mentioned that he turned up for training one time a half hour before the session began. He had been hoping to impress the management by turning up at 6.30. But he found Clucko was already there practising his kicking.
So Leonard turned up at 6 for the following session only to find Clucko already out on the field, following the same routine.
Leonard made one last effort to be first out on the field and turned up at 5.30 and you can guess who was already there. I'm saying that Cluxton's superiority over any other who kicks out the ball can be put down to sheer hard work and dedication to the cause.
It's painfully obvious to me that little or nothing has ever been done to improve the accuracy of Hennelly's or Clarke's kick outs and that's another reason why we came up short on Saturday.
I think going into this game there was always going to be scope for Connolly getting Keegan sent off.
Firstly there was all the nonsense that Keegan had done in previous games and so brought a lot of attention on himself but then last week with several media articles trying to highlight it really put pressure on the ref to be on the look out for it.
Now tactically Dublin and Connolly himself would have been waiting for a chance to cry wolf to the ref so I think Keegan was trying hard to back off a bit and not get caught. Now like I posted earlier, when the free was given and Connolly went waving his imaginary card the ref can clearly be seen saying No and he tugged on his jersey which to me indicated no black card. However, he then walks around a bit and either is influenced by another official or changes his mind but the then calls over Keegan and gives him the card and then shows a dragging down movement.
To me his mind was clearly changed and I would suspect it was from chatting to his linesmen or someone else.
I often wondered is it possible the ref is connected to a TV ref and we just don't know it.
This is a great picture.
One of the best penalties I've seen that was very nearly one of the best saves I've seen.
(http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2814111.1475438335!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)
Can the ref not look at a replay on the big screen, if he can't make his mind up in real time.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2016, 12:55:49 PM
game no end.
John Leonard, Cluxton's understudy for a while, was quoted in Saturday's Star where he spoke about Clucko's attention to detail.
Leonard mentioned that he turned up for training one time a half hour before the session began. He had been hoping to impress the management by turning up at 6.30. But he found Clucko was already there practising his kicking.
So Leonard turned up at 6 for the following session only to find Clucko already out on the field, following the same routine.
Leonard made one last effort to be first out on the field and turned up at 5.30 and you can guess who was already there.
That reminded me of the 3 little pigs
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
Of the five 'cynical' offenses that are punishable by the black card, I would argue that it works very well for the 'deliberate body collide' (3rd man tackle) and the 'deliberate trip'.
The vast majority of the contentious decisions relate to the 'deliberate pull down' due to the nature of the tackle, which is very much open to interpretation; and it's rarely used to police verbal abuse or remonstrating with officials.
Maybe we need to give this a bit of thought to avoid a baby/bathwater situation.
+1
Keegan and Durcan look more assured going for scores then some of the Mayo forwards. Andy Moran is a good player, but had a poor miss towards the end, as had Aidan O Shea, his was probably more difficult.
Cillian O Connor saved Mayo in the drawn game, didn't score from play in the replay.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Keegan and Durcan look more assured going for scores then some of the Mayo forwards. Andy Moran is a good player, but had a poor miss towards the end, as had Aidan O Shea, his was probably more difficult.
Cillian O Connor saved Mayo in the drawn game, didn't score from play in the replay.
It's different when you are coming on to the ball from wing back. Mayo didn't exactly miss much either. And unlike Dublin (Kilkenny primarily) they didn't turn down great opportunities to shoot. Their problem wasn't shooting, it was creating opportunities to shoot.
It is different, but be interesting to see one of them in the half forward line.
They were big misses , especially as it was in the last 10 minutes.
It seems there is no doubt asking the refs to use the black card with any consistency is virtually impossible. The contributors to this thread have had constant repeats to look at and two days to ponder over the decisions. Yet even now there is no consensus over many of the decisions. What hope does a ref have in real time.
Being a neutral, I thought when it came down to it the ref did not ultimately change the outcome of the game and did not seem partisan to any particular team. I also think if this was our hurling brethren discussing the game, there would hardly be a word said about the referee and more talk about what a brilliant spectacle the game was.
Who was the linesman on the Hogan Stand side of the field who failed to show Small the red that he deserved. Deegan flashed 2 yellows then put the card back into his pocket and lectured Small for a good 15 seconds before pulling out a yellow when everyone beside me presumed it would be a red. That was a match changing decision. Small was a very lucky boy on Saturday on a couple of occasions.
For me, Small wasn't throwing a punch at his opponent, he was trying to break the hold O'Connor had on his jersey (which seemed to be a deliberate ploy by Mayo players over the two games).
It goes without saying Small shouldn't have been on the pitch by that stage anyway.
Dublin have more top quality players scattered around their whole team and of course on their sub bench. To me this is why they are champions the last 2 years because in today's age of mass defensive systems where we see most of our top forwards struggle to win ball (as it is often no longer kicked into them) and even when they do get it they are surrounded in seconds by often 3 men. This is why we are seeing players like Connolly, Brogan, CoConnor & O'Shea, Gooch, O'Donoghue, Murphy & McBrearty, Sean Cavanagh etc all struggling to make such an impact on the games any more. Having a player like Rock who can score 8-12 points a game from frees (and from play) is a massive bonus and I think Kerry missed Sheehan for that this year and it will be interesting to see who replaces him.
The game has become so congested and space at a premium for forwards that often it's our midfielders and wing backs that are getting most of our scores from play.
I think Tyrone play Peter Harte purposely at wing back so he purposely can leave his man marking job and push forward knowing that someone else will mark his man for him like in the Ulster final with Ryan McHugh.
For Mayo some would say Keegan, Boyle and Durcan often kick more scores than their forwards.
In previous years we saw Dublin's forwards score lots of scores from play but not so much this year. Rock scored 9 of their total with only Costello's late surge of three from play showing any sort of attacking freedom.
In previous years Dublin would create so many goal chances but this year it was much less.
I think most AI finals that are tight need that little bit of something extra to get you over the line and as we have saw so often before Mayo are lacking in that area.
What was also interesting was that from all the excellent forwards in the Dublin team, it was Fitzsimmons and Small the last day who were man of the match. Two players who probably would not have started had Rory O'Carroll and Jack McCaffrey been there. Dublin's defence has certainly improved a lot from a few years ago and they certainly kicked the ball a lot less this year into their forward line.
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Quote from: Rudi on October 03, 2016, 01:41:10 PM
Can the ref not look at a replay on the big screen, if he can't make his mind up in real time.
I think if he did all in Croke Park would see it too and there's be general mayhem.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Rochford is considering his position.
I'd very much doubt that - he made one huge mistake but he won't do it again. I think he'll be a great manager for Mayo.
Quote from: Blue Island on October 03, 2016, 02:06:08 PM
Being a neutral, I thought when it came down to it the ref did not ultimately change the outcome of the game
Are you serious, Keegan's was not a black card, Connelly was fouled, but then fell to the ground as a result of the foul, but that was never a black card, the ref cost Mayo one of their most influential players. Small should have been gone before half time leaving Dublin with 14 players, and you think he did not change the outcome of the game. Here is a suggestion, are you a ref in disguise by any chance. I won't even mention Mc Carthys challenge on Vaughan, and please don't suggest it was an accident, not as much as spoken to.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
A sign that the silly season is underway again. I think what Mayo need now is stability not more mayhem. Marginal calls, that's the life of a manager and the need for a scapegoat is constant. Rochford appears to be the scapegoat this year, was assassinated by Brolly in yesterdays paper and he seems to be taking all the flak. It was a bold decision that backfired but it was only one of the reasons that Mayo failed to win the match. If Clarke had played there is no guarantee the result would have been any different since he had a few dodgy kickouts in the drawn match himself. It must be haunting him now though for him to be considering his position.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Hmmm. Can't honestly believe the management would be that bad to just tell them the morning of the match...
Quote from: yellowcard on October 03, 2016, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
A sign that the silly season is underway again. I think what Mayo need now is stability not more mayhem. Marginal calls, that's the life of a manager and the need for a scapegoat is constant. Rochford appears to be the scapegoat this year, was assassinated by Brolly in yesterdays paper and he seems to be taking all the flak. It was a bold decision that backfired but it was only one of the reasons that Mayo failed to win the match. If Clarke had played there is no guarantee the result would have been any different since he had a few dodgy kickouts in the drawn match himself. It must be haunting him now though for him to be considering his position.
Remember he was only given a one year gig.
I don't think neutrals understand how this is going to go down. Any Mayo fan I spoke to before game was dismayed but the switch.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 03, 2016, 03:33:10 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Hmmm. Can't honestly believe the management would be that bad to just tell them the morning of the match...
The rumour was going around before that, so I doubt they only found out that morning. And Hennelly had been warming up towards end of drawn match, so seemed to be in management's mind since at least then.
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
Yip, me an the oul fella looked at each other and laughed when Carney(?) stated it was two players committed to a tackle. Should ahve been a yellow to McCarthy.
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
You're darn right it was no accident. McCarthy should have been carded for a rash and dangerous challenge while Vaughan was still on the ground. And no way was Keegans a black card offence. Connolly goes straight to ground then the ref is swarmed. Foul on Mcloughlin in last 10 mins and play waved on. That's the way it goes.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Sigh. Disappointment with ensuing bullshit. Standard Autumn in County Mayo.
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
It was as accidental as the late hit on Cooper following the goal. Not one but two umpires 5 yards away but neither saw a thing ???
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Sigh. Disappointment with ensuing bullshit. Standard Autumn in County Mayo.
+1 to that. We love to find a scapegoat or some other reason for a loss.
The rumour was going round the morning of the game, Clarke knew at the latest on Thursday, possibly even Wednesday, I have that on decent authority. It was obviously on their mind towards the end of the drawn game even.
As for Rochford stepping down. I've heard the opposite and while that decision will haunt him for a while he'll do everything he can to make amends next year. It was a ballsy call, it looks stupid in hindsight and it completely backfired but Clarke was dicey in the first game so I can see the logic. I still wouldn't have changed keeper though but that's just a fans opinion. Rochford will bring them on again next year, he looks top class. The perennial problem of finding scorers is still there and needs to be sorted if we're to cross the line next year.
Quote from: Ballaghman on October 03, 2016, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Sigh. Disappointment with ensuing bullshit. Standard Autumn in County Mayo.
+1 to that. We love to find a scapegoat or some other reason for a loss.
The rumour was going round the morning of the game, Clarke knew at the latest on Thursday, possibly even Wednesday, I have that on decent authority. It was obviously on their mind towards the end of the drawn game even.
As for Rochford stepping down. I've heard the opposite and while that decision will haunt him for a while he'll do everything he can to make amends next year. It was a ballsy call, it looks stupid in hindsight and it completely backfired but Clarke was dicey in the first game so I can see the logic. I still wouldn't have changed keeper though but that's just a fans opinion. Rochford will bring them on again next year, he looks top class. The perennial problem of finding scorers is still there and needs to be sorted if we're to cross the line next year.
Yes. Clarke knew on Thursday evening. I assume Hennelly did as well?
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: Ballaghman on October 03, 2016, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Stories flying around Mayo today, if one cares to listen to them.
Like goalies only became aware of the switch the morning of the game.
Clarke isn't going back.
Rochford is considering his position.
Sigh. Disappointment with ensuing bullshit. Standard Autumn in County Mayo.
+1 to that. We love to find a scapegoat or some other reason for a loss.
The rumour was going round the morning of the game, Clarke knew at the latest on Thursday, possibly even Wednesday, I have that on decent authority. It was obviously on their mind towards the end of the drawn game even.
As for Rochford stepping down. I've heard the opposite and while that decision will haunt him for a while he'll do everything he can to make amends next year. It was a ballsy call, it looks stupid in hindsight and it completely backfired but Clarke was dicey in the first game so I can see the logic. I still wouldn't have changed keeper though but that's just a fans opinion. Rochford will bring them on again next year, he looks top class. The perennial problem of finding scorers is still there and needs to be sorted if we're to cross the line next year.
Yes. Clarke knew on Thursday evening. I assume Hennelly did as well?
Hennelly knew much earlier.
Quote from: Mayo Border on October 03, 2016, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
You're darn right it was no accident. McCarthy should have been carded for a rash and dangerous challenge while Vaughan was still on the ground. And no way was Keegans a black card offence. Connolly goes straight to ground then the ref is swarmed. Foul on Mcloughlin in last 10 mins and play waved on. That's the way it goes.
Keegan's was a black card. He took a player out of the movement of play, per the rules that is a black card. A lot of his game is holding players by the neck or holding their jersey. Cynical in the extreme and glad it was punished on Saturday. McLoughlin and Small should have suffered same fate. Not to take what was an enthralling game between two great teams.
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
Whether it was or it wasn't, Vaughan should have been removed from the field of play immediately.
The Mayo medics have been involved in some of the most high profile cases of concussion mismanagement in recent years.
It doesn't matter whether it's a league game or an All-Ireland final, the player has to come first otherwise all this 'awareness' stuff is just lip service.
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 11:32:30 PM
Quote from: Halfquarter on October 02, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Ciaran Whelan and other ex Dublin players have been working hard for the last two weeks bad mouthing Keegan, it seems to have worked.
Of course it worked. Had to smile when I heard Whelan say that Keegan thing was not a black. When the cup is in the bag you can hand out all the platitudes you want. Job well done Ciarán and co.
While we shot ourselves in the foot again having 2 of the 3 most important officials from Leinster reeks of bad practice. Anybody who imagines that Dublin did not benefit form the big calls need to go and boil their heads.
So Dublin benefited from big calls! What card should have been shown for the sneaky charge on Jonny Cooper after the Mayo goal. A red card?
I thought Connolly would be the one in trouble considering his aggression towards the ref.
Poor form asking for a card too with the hand gesture
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
Here is the Lee Keegan black card.
https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464 (https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464)
Watch the Keegan incident and ignore him altogether.
Just watch Connolly.
He is not pulled down.
I'm not even all that sure he's being fouled, but the hand over the shoulder probably merits a free-in at most.
At no point does Keegan make contact with him below the shoulder.
That's only part of it. There was a fuller clip floating around that I can't find now, showing the few seconds just before this. Keegan reaches across with his left hand and grabs Connolly's jersey on the chest area, then swings around and we see the rest of the clip you've shown. The whole effect is of Connolly being pulled down. If it was the jersey grab alone, or the clip you show alone, then ok, it would seem harsh.
Even as it was he could well have gotten away with it, fair enough. But I don't see how you can get from there to saying it's definitely not a black card. He was all over Connolly and Connolly went down, he's at risk.
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 03, 2016, 06:21:43 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 11:32:30 PM
Quote from: Halfquarter on October 02, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Ciaran Whelan and other ex Dublin players have been working hard for the last two weeks bad mouthing Keegan, it seems to have worked.
Of course it worked. Had to smile when I heard Whelan say that Keegan thing was not a black. When the cup is in the bag you can hand out all the platitudes you want. Job well done Ciarán and co.
While we shot ourselves in the foot again having 2 of the 3 most important officials from Leinster reeks of bad practice. Anybody who imagines that Dublin did not benefit form the big calls need to go and boil their heads.
So Dublin benefited from big calls! What card should have been shown for the sneaky charge on Jonny Cooper after the Mayo goal. A red card?
You are not the first Dub who reckons this was a red. The last few when asked why couldnt really say why. Maybe you can let me know how in the name of god you think thats a red card
Keegan was definitely done on his black card, a yellow is what is was and Connolly knew what he was at and exacted a little bit of revenge.
Lee Keegan can have little complaints though, he has came out on the right side of wrong decisions an awful lot more than he has been sinned against. The law of averages said he had rode his fair share up until now.
I actually really like Keegan, he's my player of the Championship this season, he's a super player and I thought it was very classy of him last year in being one of the few Mayo players who refrained from throwing their management team under the bus. If Mayo had more guys like him they'd have a couple of All Irelands over the past few years. My only issue is the inconsistent treatment the media give to the likes of Keegan in contrast to other players - primarily Donegal and Tyrone.
I found it quite amusing some Mayo people were throwing a strop at Dublin figures singling him out for the referee to clamp down on him. You should be grateful he was allowed to get away with his actions (in big games, on big opponents) for so long without intense media scrutiny.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 03, 2016, 07:09:40 PM
Keegan was definitely done on his black card, a yellow is what is was and Connolly knew what he was at and exacted a little bit of revenge.
Lee Keegan can have little complaints though, he has came out on the right side of wrong decisions an awful lot more than he has been sinned against. The law of averages said he had rode his fair share up until now.
I actually really like Keegan, he's my player of the Championship this season, he's a super player and I thought it was very classy of him last year in being one of the few Mayo players who refrained from throwing their management team under the bus. If Mayo had more guys like him they'd have a couple of All Irelands over the past few years. My only issue is the inconsistent treatment the media give to the likes of Keegan in contrast to other players - primarily Donegal and Tyrone.
I found it quite amusing some Mayo people were throwing a strop at Dublin figures singling him out for the referee to clamp down on him. You should be grateful he was allowed to get away with his actions (in big games, on big opponents) for so long without intense media scrutiny.
That literally is your only issue.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 03, 2016, 07:09:40 PM
Keegan was definitely done on his black card, a yellow is what is was and Connolly knew what he was at and exacted a little bit of revenge.
Lee Keegan can have little complaints though, he has came out on the right side of wrong decisions an awful lot more than he has been sinned against. The law of averages said he had rode his fair share up until now.
I actually really like Keegan, he's my player of the Championship this season, he's a super player and I thought it was very classy of him last year in being one of the few Mayo players who refrained from throwing their management team under the bus. If Mayo had more guys like him they'd have a couple of All Irelands over the past few years. My only issue is the inconsistent treatment the media give to the likes of Keegan in contrast to other players - primarily Donegal and Tyrone.
I found it quite amusing some Mayo people were throwing a strop at Dublin figures singling him out for the referee to clamp down on him. You should be grateful he was allowed to get away with his actions (in big games, on big opponents) for so long without intense media scrutiny.
Yes,maybe we should do away with the refs and let the Dublin media figures referee the games !!
Quote from: blanketattack on October 03, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Anyone else think McCarthy's collision with Vaughan wasn't the complete accident the commentators made it out to be?
Think Seamus O'Shea gave McCarthy a slight push.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 03, 2016, 07:09:40 PM
Keegan was definitely done on his black card, a yellow is what is was and Connolly knew what he was at and exacted a little bit of revenge.
Lee Keegan can have little complaints though, he has came out on the right side of wrong decisions an awful lot more than he has been sinned against. The law of averages said he had rode his fair share up until now.
I actually really like Keegan, he's my player of the Championship this season, he's a super player and I thought it was very classy of him last year in being one of the few Mayo players who refrained from throwing their management team under the bus. If Mayo had more guys like him they'd have a couple of All Irelands over the past few years. My only issue is the inconsistent treatment the media give to the likes of Keegan in contrast to other players - primarily Donegal and Tyrone.
I found it quite amusing some Mayo people were throwing a strop at Dublin figures singling him out for the referee to clamp down on him. You should be grateful he was allowed to get away with his actions (in big games, on big opponents) for so long without intense media scrutiny.
He could very well have been classy enough , as you put it , to not vote H & C out but only Lee knows that himself if he did , I don't , you don't and certainly the Connacht Telegraph and our esteemed former Co Chairman don't either.
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I think the main problem was that Rochford and his management never settled on a decision on who was number 1. From the FBD right though to last Saturday evening there was so much chopping and changing of the keeper. Both keepers had the experience of playing in AI finals before but in hindsight it was probably best to keep Clarke in goal for the replay.
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 06:41:21 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
Here is the Lee Keegan black card.
https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464 (https://twitter.com/Sportstalkdotie/status/782258063302590464)
Watch the Keegan incident and ignore him altogether.
Just watch Connolly.
He is not pulled down.
I'm not even all that sure he's being fouled, but the hand over the shoulder probably merits a free-in at most.
At no point does Keegan make contact with him below the shoulder.
That's only part of it. There was a fuller clip floating around that I can't find now, showing the few seconds just before this. Keegan reaches across with his left hand and grabs Connolly's jersey on the chest area, then swings around and we see the rest of the clip you've shown. The whole effect is of Connolly being pulled down. If it was the jersey grab alone, or the clip you show alone, then ok, it would seem harsh.
Even as it was he could well have gotten away with it, fair enough. But I don't see how you can get from there to saying it's definitely not a black card. He was all over Connolly and Connolly went down, he's at risk.
I'll explain it to you in greater detail so.
Connolly was not deliberately pulled down.
So either he got a black card for one of the other four listed offences, such as a deliberate trip, or Deegan was wrong.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
I have read. They cover cynical fouls including "deliberately body collide with an opponent for the purpose of taking him out of movement of play."
Keegan was making no effort to be first to ball, and more intent of preventing a goal from disastrous kick out by taking Connolly out. It began with jersey grab, then left hand on shoulder, then around neck. No intent to play ball.
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.
+ 1 Ballinaman.
The other thing that doesn't add up here is the fact that the world and its mother had heard about the change before it was announced. Compare it with Dillon being named to start against Tyrone, that came as surprise to most. If management wanted the Hennelly change to be in the public domain, then why bother announcing the earlier dummy team? It's strange IMO, especially when you consider how tight knit the group had been all year.
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 03, 2016, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
I have read. They cover cynical fouls including "deliberately body collide with an opponent for the purpose of taking him out of movement of play."
Keegan was making no effort to be first to ball, and more intent of preventing a goal from disastrous kick out by taking Connolly out. It began with jersey grab, then left hand on shoulder, then around neck. No intent to play ball.
Disingenuous there Net nitrate ??....
It looks to me like you are deliberately mis-quoting section 5.12 to suit your argument, i.e.: you are leaving out the bit about having played the ball away.
So, can you point me to the section of the rule as below that justified Keegans black card ?
Ironically, by the letter of the law, the only rule that I can see as being broken was 5.13 ...... by Connolly (no, not for a second am I suggesting he should have got a black)
Category II Infractions – Cynical Behaviour
5.10 To deliberately pull down an opponent.
5.11 To deliberately trip an opponent with hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
5.12 To deliberately collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play.
5.13 To remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official..
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Order the offender off by showing him a Black Card.
(ii) Allow a replacement from within the substitutions permitted in Rule 2.4, Rules of Specification.
(iii) Free kick from where the foul occurred except as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
5.14 To threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or teammate.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Order the offender off by showing him a Black Card.
(ii) Allow a replacement from within the substitutions permitted
Nobody I know heard until Sat. morning. In fact a few were taken by surprise when it was announced just before throw in.
Anyway what's done is done. Clarkie was back out this evening taking a training session in his old school like he often does when his job allows. A class act.
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 03, 2016, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
I have read. They cover cynical fouls including "deliberately body collide with an opponent for the purpose of taking him out of movement of play."
Keegan was making no effort to be first to ball, and more intent of preventing a goal from disastrous kick out by taking Connolly out. It began with jersey grab, then left hand on shoulder, then around neck. No intent to play ball.
Disingenuous there Net nitrate ??....
It looks to me like you are deliberately mis-quoting section 5.12 to suit your argument, i.e.: you are leaving out the bit about having played the ball away.
So, can you point me to the section of the rule as below that justified Keegans black card ?
Ironically, by the letter of the law, the only rule broken was 5.13 ...... by Connolly (no, not for a second am I suggesting he should have got a black)
Category II Infractions – Cynical Behaviour
5.10 To deliberately pull down an opponent.
5.11 To deliberately trip an opponent with hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
5.12 To deliberately collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play.
5.13 To remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official..
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Order the offender off by showing him a Black Card.
(ii) Allow a replacement from within the substitutions permitted in Rule 2.4, Rules of Specification.
(iii) Free kick from where the foul occurred except as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
5.14 To threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or teammate.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Order the offender off by showing him a Black Card.
(ii) Allow a replacement from within the substitutions permitted
Look it wasn't a card of any description. A free-in and a ticking was the correct call. Nothing more.
The fact that it was a goal scoring chance is irrelevant. Deegan knows the rules so one of a few things happened.
1. Took advice from a linesman that changed his initial opinion of the challenge.
2. Is a homer as expected and was influenced by the protestations and reaction of the fans.
3. Had a preconceived idea of the Connolly/Keegan duel and probably influenced by the nonsense from former players. Must be impossible for refs. to isolate themselves from this shite.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 08:43:28 PM
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 06:41:21 PM
That's only part of it. There was a fuller clip floating around that I can't find now, showing the few seconds just before this. Keegan reaches across with his left hand and grabs Connolly's jersey on the chest area, then swings around and we see the rest of the clip you've shown. The whole effect is of Connolly being pulled down. If it was the jersey grab alone, or the clip you show alone, then ok, it would seem harsh.
Even as it was he could well have gotten away with it, fair enough. But I don't see how you can get from there to saying it's definitely not a black card. He was all over Connolly and Connolly went down, he's at risk.
I'll explain it to you in greater detail so.
Connolly was not deliberately pulled down.
So either he got a black card for one of the other four listed offences, such as a deliberate trip, or Deegan was wrong.
Sez you.
Sez physics.
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 03, 2016, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
I have read. They cover cynical fouls including "deliberately body collide with an opponent for the purpose of taking him out of movement of play."
Keegan was making no effort to be first to ball, and more intent of preventing a goal from disastrous kick out by taking Connolly out. It began with jersey grab, then left hand on shoulder, then around neck. No intent to play ball.
Disingenuous there Net nitrate ??....
It looks to me like you are deliberately mis-quoting section 5.12 to suit your argument,
Not misquoting. There was an "or" there and the first part did not apply. The full rule is "deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play."
Keegan was guilty of the bit that came after the "or". The purpose was to take him out of movement of play when there was a possible goal on.
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 03, 2016, 09:51:56 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 03, 2016, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Net nitrate and others need to read the oul black card section of the rule book.
I have read. They cover cynical fouls including "deliberately body collide with an opponent for the purpose of taking him out of movement of play."
Keegan was making no effort to be first to ball, and more intent of preventing a goal from disastrous kick out by taking Connolly out. It began with jersey grab, then left hand on shoulder, then around neck. No intent to play ball.
Disingenuous there Net nitrate ??....
It looks to me like you are deliberately mis-quoting section 5.12 to suit your argument,
Not misquoting. There was an "or" there and the first part did not apply. The full rule is "deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play."
Keegan was guilty of the bit that came after the "or". The purpose was to take him out of movement of play when there was a possible goal on.
No. They were in a race for possession and Connolly had a head start. To take somebody out of a movement of play means that a player is prevented from making a supporting run/ getting involved in a play bit may not be the instigator or player in possession. I suspect you might know that already though. The possible goal has nothing to do with it either.
As I said earlier it was free in and a ticking but no card of any colour. Officials fucked up.
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Agree. But while Rochford and Hennelly will be haunted by their decisions for the rest of their lives, Deegan and his officials will just move on.
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
Imagine the outcry from the media if it was Keegan that dived and started waving the imaginary card around to get Connolly sent off.......the standard of journalism in the national media is deplorable, so one sided that it's no wonder those outside the pale have given up on buying the rags. You'd think from reading the post match analysis that Dublin were a twenty points better team than Mayo. I wont be buying one again for awhile, not sure which of them are the worst, McGee, Brehony etc....Jesus wept...
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Stephen Coen has captained Mayo to minor and u21 titles. He played in a team that lost an All Ireland final by 1 point after a replay so I know one thing for sure hes definitely a lot nearer to winning an All Ireland then me. So what are the excuses for Connolly this time
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 09:49:57 PM
Sez physics.
"Proof by emphatic assertion."
Look, believe whatever you want to believe. Personally I think you're in denial. Any player who tries the same thing runs a serious risk of getting a black.
Quote from: Cat and Cage on October 03, 2016, 10:33:14 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 03, 2016, 09:49:57 PM
Sez physics.
"Proof by emphatic assertion."
Look, believe whatever you want to believe. Personally I think you're in denial. Any player who tries the same thing runs a serious risk of getting a black.
I don t get this. What is a player supposed to do? Not compete?
That challenge was not a card of any colour.
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
No different to your own fans leading the charge against Connolly. Only so much whingeing can explain your complete inability as a county to produce top class forwards.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
Quote from: ashman on October 03, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
It's not loaded at all. You wouldn't have known Dublin were playing last saturday in 80 percent of the city
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Full of haters... sure... Enjoy yourself man, you'd swear you lost on Saturday the way you're going on. Try winning graciously as well. Some of us would love it.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 03, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
It's not loaded at all. You wouldn't have known Dublin were playing last saturday in 80 percent of the city
Really? 80% have no interest in Gaelic football in Dublin?
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 03, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
It's not loaded at all. You wouldn't have known Dublin were playing last saturday in 80 percent of the city
(http://www.awesome-t-shirts.com/img/T-shirts2/29-4-percent-of-all-statistics-are-made-up.jpg)
And the 65 years......back to back statistic in 3,2,.......
In fairness there was no shortage of Laois folk in Dublin jerseys shouting at the telly in my local on Saturday evening, 3 generations of Laois folk in some cases.
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 10:59:54 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 03, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
It's not loaded at all. You wouldn't have known Dublin were playing last saturday in 80 percent of the city
(http://www.awesome-t-shirts.com/img/T-shirts2/29-4-percent-of-all-statistics-are-made-up.jpg)
And the 65 years......back to back statistic in 3,2,.......
Well you blew back to back all irelands in the space of two weeks. Is that the statistic your referring to?
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 03, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on October 03, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
I wonder how Stephen Coen will deal with the intense media pressure that he will come under after him taking Diarmuid Connolly out of Lee Keegans pocket with the black card and placing him firmly into his own. Cant be at that Stephen. This lad has to be able express himself. So was it pulling and dragging or can Connolly actually be marked
Connolly has 4 all Ireland medals, four leagues etc etc. You can continue spouting boll0x all you want but Coen, Keegan et all are no nearer winning an all Ireland than they / you ever were. Suck it up stop talking sh1te and try to lose with a bit of graciousness. Who knows it might be the making of Mayo in years to come.
The haters will always hate. And fcuk me bar the odd exception this site is full of them. It does truly make our success all the sweeter.
Now I'm off to see where Sam will be later in the week for a further bit of celebrating a special team and special bunch of players. Good luck!
Will you stop this utterly pathetic "haters gotta hate " crap . Ye won another all Ireland in a competition when every dice is loaded in ye're favour . A few decision might and might not have went ye're way . Most people were hoping to see Mayo win due to the fact they were 65 years without a win. If Dublin hurlers say we're playing Tipp in a final most would love to see them win.
Your "suck it up" & "makes it sweeter " makes you look a pathetic gloater . Remember the dice is bloody loaded .
It's not loaded at all. You wouldn't have known Dublin were playing last saturday in 80 percent of the city
Ah come on . I know soccer and rugby are huge and big in Dublin but you can be sure most with an interest in sport were glued. The Dublin team get players from all over and across all classes . Ballymun to Cuala/Kilmacud . That is ROCK and his son in demographics . There are 5 potential all Ireland club winners in Dublin . The clubs are all well resourced . They have some of Europes best sports science facilities in DCU. All the players live in the county. The GAA provide big money in grants. Then there is the massive sponsorship deals. All games in croke park . Btw I don't begrudge Dublin that . They are doing what is best but don't kid yourself that Dublin don't have every metric in their favour.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 11:10:32 PM
Well you blew back to back all irelands in the space of two weeks. Is that the statistic your referring to?
Does thinking that make the win more enjoyable for you?
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2016, 10:46:41 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
No different to your own fans leading the charge against Connolly. Only so much whingeing can explain your complete inability as a county to produce top class forwards.
Weak Indiana and you know it. For all the top class forwards ye have it was a one point difference over 160 minutes. Blue chip players like Brogan, McMenamon, Andrews and Mannion struggled to make a mark when started over the 2 games. Some had joy when coming on when there is a bit of sorting out by defences about who is doing what.
The difference for me was that Dublin are more clinical. Remember Galvin has been there a few years and everything is well oiled. We were coming into the year with a new management and trying different things and not everything worked out but a lot did as well. We did not have a 'process' to the extent Dublin had. Andy kicking crosses for example should not be happening.
Dublin also made sure they were never extended at the back. There was always numbers back so that quick counter attacks could not happen and the long ball option was never likely to get much joy. This AI for Dublin was about pragmatism, process and patience rather than scoring forwards.
I'd take that though. Enjoy the win.
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.
Sticking the knife into Hennelly, while not mentioning anything about why he was even considered for the reply, isn't very balanced, is it?
We somehow went from a situation where we had two top goalkeepers, to one where arguably errors from each of them stopped us from winning an All-Ireland.
Enjoyed the Mayo/Dublin saga the last couple of weeks! Dublin's dominance continues. They will not be touched in Leinster for a long time. The League is just a hobby and the AI's a just rolling in. Mayo and my own Kerry are in decline. Kerry are nearly dead and Mayo are just dyeing slowly and for their fans it will be a slow agonising death. Croke Park is Dublins fortress now! The practice games in Croker during the league bring them on leaps and bounds come the Summer. They have really got their act together at every level. They even have a strong media presence and the campaign on Keegan was well planned and orchestrated. It worked a treat. Mayo had little or no media presence to counter act it. Deegan fell for it hook line and sinker. Brolly stung Mayo in the lead up to 2012 (with cynical) and our Mafia got into place in 2014 (with Streetwise). (So Called) Good/Great teams get leeway compared to their opponents. Media controls everything now, Venues, Player profiles and even the rules of the game. The Referee and linemen pulled out of big decisions on Saturday evening. There was a few token calls, but that is all they were. They feared making the real big decisions as they might end up scrutinised by a righteous media.
I'd find the Mayo losing another AI stuff hilarious except they are the closest at present to this GAA Headquarters created team. And when you have Mayo as the main threat to dominance, you are in trouble.
In conclusion, we have a well organised Dublin team with loads of money, set up with jobs, playing all their important games at home, with huge investment in their structures and no end to it all.
Then again there are the Kerry Minors of the last 3 years!
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 03, 2016, 11:56:15 PM
Enjoyed the Mayo/Dublin saga the last couple of weeks! Dublin's dominance continues. They will not be touched in Leinster for a long time. The League is just a hobby and the AI's a just rolling in. Mayo and my own Kerry are in decline. Kerry are nearly dead and Mayo are just dyeing slowly and for their fans it will be a slow agonising death. Croke Park is Dublins fortress now! The practice games in Croker during the league bring them on leaps and bounds come the Summer. They have really got their act together at every level. They even have a strong media presence and the campaign on Keegan was well planned and orchestrated. It worked a treat. Mayo had little or no media presence to counter act it. Deegan fell for it hook line and sinker. Brolly stung Mayo in the lead up to 2012 (with cynical) and our Mafia got into place in 2014 (with Streetwise). (So Called) Good/Great teams get leeway compared to their opponents. Media controls everything now, Venues, Player profiles and even the rules of the game. The Referee and linemen pulled out of big decisions on Saturday evening. There was a few token calls, but that is all they were. They feared making the real big decisions as they might end up scrutinised by a righteous media.
I'd find the Mayo losing another AI stuff hilarious except they are the closest at present to this GAA Headquarters created team. And when you have Mayo as the main threat to dominance, you are in trouble.
In conclusion, we have a well organised Dublin team with loads of money, set up with jobs, playing all their important games at home, with huge investment in their structures and no end to it all.
Then again there are the Kerry Minors of the last 3 years!
So bitter towards Dublin and so condescending towards Mayo is that post.
The Keegan black card was self inflicted and had nothing to do with the media .
Quote from: yellowcard on October 04, 2016, 12:02:53 AM
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 03, 2016, 11:56:15 PM
Enjoyed the Mayo/Dublin saga the last couple of weeks! Dublin's dominance continues. They will not be touched in Leinster for a long time. The League is just a hobby and the AI's a just rolling in. Mayo and my own Kerry are in decline. Kerry are nearly dead and Mayo are just dyeing slowly and for their fans it will be a slow agonising death. Croke Park is Dublins fortress now! The practice games in Croker during the league bring them on leaps and bounds come the Summer. They have really got their act together at every level. They even have a strong media presence and the campaign on Keegan was well planned and orchestrated. It worked a treat. Mayo had little or no media presence to counter act it. Deegan fell for it hook line and sinker. Brolly stung Mayo in the lead up to 2012 (with cynical) and our Mafia got into place in 2014 (with Streetwise). (So Called) Good/Great teams get leeway compared to their opponents. Media controls everything now, Venues, Player profiles and even the rules of the game. The Referee and linemen pulled out of big decisions on Saturday evening. There was a few token calls, but that is all they were. They feared making the real big decisions as they might end up scrutinised by a righteous media.
I'd find the Mayo losing another AI stuff hilarious except they are the closest at present to this GAA Headquarters created team. And when you have Mayo as the main threat to dominance, you are in trouble.
In conclusion, we have a well organised Dublin team with loads of money, set up with jobs, playing all their important games at home, with huge investment in their structures and no end to it all.
Then again there are the Kerry Minors of the last 3 years!
So bitter towards Dublin and so condescending towards Mayo is that post.
Bitter/Condescending - I was praising both teams! Well i was praising Dublin and I was advising Mayo! Same difference!
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2016, 12:06:50 AM
The Keegan black card was self inflicted and had nothing to do with the media .
You just go tell us that. Of course Jim Galvin heard nothing during the week about Keegan either. ;)
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.
Sticking the knife into Hennelly, while not mentioning anything about why he was even considered for the reply, isn't very balanced, is it?
We somehow went from a situation where we had two top goalkeepers, to one where arguably errors from each of them stopped us from winning an All-Ireland.
I doubt anybody is sticking knives into anybody Muppet.
I don t think the goalkeeping thing was even close except that Clarke's and O Malley's injuries meant that Hennelly was the man in position for a number of years.
True, Clarkie had a bad wobble in drawn game (Cluxton had one as well v Kerry). It was after an hour + of concentration when the players in front of him were also a bit gassed and maybe not able to show as well as they were earlier. Remember also Seamie had a costly melt down in drawn game and had a miller in replay. Surely the wise thing to do was work with Clarke over the 2 weeks. Even after being dropped he had a serious cut at the penalty and played well when he came on.
Croke Park is a serious cauldron in an AI final and to throw a lad in there that was dropped months ago for being iffy was not wise to say the least. Everybody else went through the build up of intensity from quarters, semis and drawn game. To do that to a keeper was taking a hell of a risk and while some might call it ballsy, it was reckless.
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 03, 2016, 11:56:15 PM
Enjoyed the Mayo/Dublin saga the last couple of weeks! Dublin's dominance continues. They will not be touched in Leinster for a long time. The League is just a hobby and the AI's a just rolling in. Mayo and my own Kerry are in decline. Kerry are nearly dead and Mayo are just dyeing slowly and for their fans it will be a slow agonising death. Croke Park is Dublins fortress now! The practice games in Croker during the league bring them on leaps and bounds come the Summer. They have really got their act together at every level. They even have a strong media presence and the campaign on Keegan was well planned and orchestrated. It worked a treat. Mayo had little or no media presence to counter act it. Deegan fell for it hook line and sinker. Brolly stung Mayo in the lead up to 2012 (with cynical) and our Mafia got into place in 2014 (with Streetwise). (So Called) Good/Great teams get leeway compared to their opponents. Media controls everything now, Venues, Player profiles and even the rules of the game. The Referee and linemen pulled out of big decisions on Saturday evening. There was a few token calls, but that is all they were. They feared making the real big decisions as they might end up scrutinised by a righteous media.
I'd find the Mayo losing another AI stuff hilarious except they are the closest at present to this GAA Headquarters created team. And when you have Mayo as the main threat to dominance, you are in trouble.
In conclusion, we have a well organised Dublin team with loads of money, set up with jobs, playing all their important games at home, with huge investment in their structures and no end to it all.
Then again there are the Kerry Minors of the last 3 years!
That's definitely one of the biggest piles of bollocks I've read in a while.
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Think Bendix washing machines....that's where the commercialisation started...right through to Dick O Sullivans Kerry Foods....although it was inevitable I suppose.
Whilst I was at the final and with practically every other neutral I was hoping to see Mayo make the breakthrough, I do admit to thinking the Dubs are great for the game. Yes they have increased the stakes and opened up a huge gap between themselves and the middle tier counties but hey its raised the bar further and it's up to other counties to find 20 Grade a players at the one time who could compete at this level. Not easy but not impossible. Kerry for one will always be back and Tyrone structures are excellent too, and won't ever be that far away either.
You've got to embrace the challenge....its not going to go away! And besides, there's no atmosphere to match the Dubs in full voice.
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 04, 2016, 12:13:50 AM
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 03, 2016, 11:56:15 PM
Enjoyed the Mayo/Dublin saga the last couple of weeks! Dublin's dominance continues. They will not be touched in Leinster for a long time. The League is just a hobby and the AI's a just rolling in. Mayo and my own Kerry are in decline. Kerry are nearly dead and Mayo are just dyeing slowly and for their fans it will be a slow agonising death. Croke Park is Dublins fortress now! The practice games in Croker during the league bring them on leaps and bounds come the Summer. They have really got their act together at every level. They even have a strong media presence and the campaign on Keegan was well planned and orchestrated. It worked a treat. Mayo had little or no media presence to counter act it. Deegan fell for it hook line and sinker. Brolly stung Mayo in the lead up to 2012 (with cynical) and our Mafia got into place in 2014 (with Streetwise). (So Called) Good/Great teams get leeway compared to their opponents. Media controls everything now, Venues, Player profiles and even the rules of the game. The Referee and linemen pulled out of big decisions on Saturday evening. There was a few token calls, but that is all they were. They feared making the real big decisions as they might end up scrutinised by a righteous media.
I'd find the Mayo losing another AI stuff hilarious except they are the closest at present to this GAA Headquarters created team. And when you have Mayo as the main threat to dominance, you are in trouble.
In conclusion, we have a well organised Dublin team with loads of money, set up with jobs, playing all their important games at home, with huge investment in their structures and no end to it all.
Then again there are the Kerry Minors of the last 3 years!
That's definitely one of the biggest piles of bollocks I've read in a while.
It is cynical , waspish , bitter , acerbic but it is hard to dispute what s/he said.
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:14:24 AM
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Sorry Muppet, it was never a close call, no matter how you try to spin it.
Too big risk. Hennelly's kick-out not a big enough gain. In fact under pressure his kick-outs are worse. Gloves a few years ago and Galway goal this year. Clarke had a meltdown in drawn game but at least they kick were out the wing. Hennelly put Keegan in trouble in front of the posts and gave Dublin their second best chance of a goal and presented them with their goal.
He was a bag of nails from the start but management should have known better. I d give them slack if they were replacing Clarke with a cool steady keeper but Hennelly has never been that.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:14:24 AM
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Sorry Muppet, it was never a close call, no matter how you try to spin it.
Too big risk. Hennelly's kick-out not a big enough gain. In fact under pressure his kick-outs are worse. Gloves a few years ago and Galway goal this year. Clarke had a meltdown in drawn game but at least they kick were out the wing. Hennelly put Keegan in trouble in front of the posts and gave Dublin their second best chance of a goal and presented them with their goal.
He was a bag of nails from the start but management should have known better. I d give them slack if they were replacing Clarke with a cool steady keeper but Hennelly has never been that.
I am not trying to spin anything.
Hennelly has been a top keeper no matter what you say. James Horan thought so, Holmes and Connelly thought so and Rochford thought so.
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:14:24 AM
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Sorry Muppet, it was never a close call, no matter how you try to spin it.
Too big risk. Hennelly's kick-out not a big enough gain. In fact under pressure his kick-outs are worse. Gloves a few years ago and Galway goal this year. Clarke had a meltdown in drawn game but at least they kick were out the wing. Hennelly put Keegan in trouble in front of the posts and gave Dublin their second best chance of a goal and presented them with their goal.
He was a bag of nails from the start but management should have known better. I d give them slack if they were replacing Clarke with a cool steady keeper but Hennelly has never been that.
I am not trying to spin anything.
Hennelly has been a top keeper no matter what you say. James Horan thought so, Holmes and Connelly thought so and Rochford thought so.
Don't want to get into a row with you Muppet but the reality is that Clarke would have been always goalie apart from a number of injuries that kept him out for a long time and nearly finished him entirely. True he attacked a few balls in drawn game and over extended himself but you can see what he was about because we have no size in our full back line. Clarke has been commanding his space for 15 years now. Hennelly never has and the penalty the last day was a simple housekeeping ball that he spilled. I'm pretty sure most Mayo fans were not surprised by that calamity if they have been clued in over the years.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 03, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.
Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.
Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.
Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.
However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly.
It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.
So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.
I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.
Sticking the knife into Hennelly, while not mentioning anything about why he was even considered for the reply, isn't very balanced, is it?
We somehow went from a situation where we had two top goalkeepers, to one where arguably errors from each of them stopped us from winning an All-Ireland.
All Irelands are decided by forwards on both sides either scoring or missing. Goalies will always make certain calls but if the forwards don't score that is where Aughrim happens. IMO.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 01:00:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:14:24 AM
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Sorry Muppet, it was never a close call, no matter how you try to spin it.
Too big risk. Hennelly's kick-out not a big enough gain. In fact under pressure his kick-outs are worse. Gloves a few years ago and Galway goal this year. Clarke had a meltdown in drawn game but at least they kick were out the wing. Hennelly put Keegan in trouble in front of the posts and gave Dublin their second best chance of a goal and presented them with their goal.
He was a bag of nails from the start but management should have known better. I d give them slack if they were replacing Clarke with a cool steady keeper but Hennelly has never been that.
I am not trying to spin anything.
Hennelly has been a top keeper no matter what you say. James Horan thought so, Holmes and Connelly thought so and Rochford thought so.
Don't want to get into a row with you Muppet but the reality is that Clarke would have been always goalie apart from a number of injuries that kept him out for a long time and nearly finished him entirely. True he attacked a few balls in drawn game and over extended himself but you can see what he was about because we have no size in our full back line. Clarke has been commanding his space for 15 years now. Hennelly never has and the penalty the last day was a simple housekeeping ball that he spilled. I'm pretty sure most Mayo fans were not surprised by that calamity if they have been clued in over the years.
This is opinion presented as fact. You might be right, but the various managers picked Hennelly and left Clarke on the bench.
Your highlighting of Hennelly handling error, while ignoring Clrake's brain-farts that got him dropped, isn't exectly balanced. Also your defence of Clarke's screw-ups, due to attacking the ball because there was no fullback, could easily apply to Hennelly's screw-up, if one was balanced that is.
How long is it customary to bitch and moan post-AI about the ref and accuse the opposition of all the things your own team is equally guilty of?
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 01:00:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:14:24 AM
I said above I wouldn't have changed Clarke, and I gave the reasons for that, but it was a close call.
Sorry Muppet, it was never a close call, no matter how you try to spin it.
Too big risk. Hennelly's kick-out not a big enough gain. In fact under pressure his kick-outs are worse. Gloves a few years ago and Galway goal this year. Clarke had a meltdown in drawn game but at least they kick were out the wing. Hennelly put Keegan in trouble in front of the posts and gave Dublin their second best chance of a goal and presented them with their goal.
He was a bag of nails from the start but management should have known better. I d give them slack if they were replacing Clarke with a cool steady keeper but Hennelly has never been that.
I am not trying to spin anything.
Hennelly has been a top keeper no matter what you say. James Horan thought so, Holmes and Connelly thought so and Rochford thought so.
Don't want to get into a row with you Muppet but the reality is that Clarke would have been always goalie apart from a number of injuries that kept him out for a long time and nearly finished him entirely. True he attacked a few balls in drawn game and over extended himself but you can see what he was about because we have no size in our full back line. Clarke has been commanding his space for 15 years now. Hennelly never has and the penalty the last day was a simple housekeeping ball that he spilled. I'm pretty sure most Mayo fans were not surprised by that calamity if they have been clued in over the years.
This is opinion presented as fact. You might be right, but the various managers picked Hennelly and left Clarke on the bench.
Your highlighting of Hennelly handling error, while ignoring Clrake's brain-farts that got him dropped, isn't exectly balanced. Also your defence of Clarke's screw-ups, due to attacking the ball because there was no fullback, could easily apply to Hennelly's screw-up, if one was balanced that is.
I wonder will this effect in Hennelly's future county career? I don't know him, but I would imagine that those errors might finish him at the top level.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:15:46 AM
How long is it customary to bitch and moan post-AI about the ref and accuse the opposition of all the things your own team is equally guilty of?
Do you really think there's been much bitching and moaning from Mayo!? I think the Dubs seem surpisingly grumpy seeing as ye won the f**king thing.
I have the feeling this is a different kind of defeat. It could have gone either way. The Dubs are not better than Mayo . It wasn't a capitulation. It was attrition as someone else said. On another day Mayo would have won. They will win Sam with this group. And it will be a great day.
Ah lads be nice, its over now, time to for the important stuff to start now, club football.
I will say this though, Id say they are absolutely sickened down in Kerry, sick to the teeth. Its great.
If Mayo can match the exact same intensity as the their last two games they will be there again next year in the final.
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:03:11 AM
Ah lads be nice, its over now, time to for the important stuff to start now, club football.
I will say this though, Id say they are absolutely sickened down in Kerry, sick to the teeth. Its great.
If Mayo can match the exact same intensity as the metric their last two games they will be there again next year in the final.
Jesus will you grow up. Gloating over winning a competition in which every dice is loaded in your favour .
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2016, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:03:11 AM
Ah lads be nice, its over now, time to for the important stuff to start now, club football.
I will say this though, Id say they are absolutely sickened down in Kerry, sick to the teeth. Its great.
If Mayo can match the exact same intensity as the metric their last two games they will be there again next year in the final.
Jesus will you grow up. Gloating over winning a competition in which every dice is loaded in your favour .
Only gloating over Kerry, not anyone else. I really feel for Mayo, really do.
That's your opinion, you wont change mine.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:15:35 AM
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2016, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:03:11 AM
Ah lads be nice, its over now, time to for the important stuff to start now, club football.
I will say this though, Id say they are absolutely sickened down in Kerry, sick to the teeth. Its great.
If Mayo can match the exact same intensity as the metric their last two games they will be there again next year in the final.
Jesus will you grow up. Gloating over winning a competition in which every dice is loaded in your favour .
Ye beat an average and downsizing Kerry team over the past 5 years and on a couple of occasions with a bit of help. Nothing huge to boast about TBH .
Only gloating over Kerry, not anyone else. I really feel for Mayo, really do.
That's your opinion, you wont change mine.
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:15:35 AM
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2016, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 04, 2016, 09:03:11 AM
Ah lads be nice, its over now, time to for the important stuff to start now, club football.
I will say this though, Id say they are absolutely sickened down in Kerry, sick to the teeth. Its great.
If Mayo can match the exact same intensity as the metric their last two games they will be there again next year in the final.
Jesus will you grow up. Gloating over winning a competition in which every dice is loaded in your favour .
Ye beat an average and downsizing Kerry team over the past 5 years and on a couple of occasions with a bit of help. Nothing huge to boast about TBH .
Only gloating over Kerry, not anyone else. I really feel for Mayo, really do.
That's your opinion, you wont change mine.
Not for you, but for me definitely, Kerry are Kerry, they will always be the team to beat and are the best. Its not even about this year, its the fact now that Dublin can now start saying you find all Ireland medals in your change in Dublin.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:15:46 AM
How long is it customary to bitch and moan post-AI about the ref and accuse the opposition of all the things your own team is equally guilty of?
I'm up to 20 years (and showing no sign of stopping anytime soon).
I won't be doing any shopping in Dublin for a while, until ye go back to giving legal coins again >:(
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:15:46 AM
How long is it customary to bitch and moan post-AI about the ref and accuse the opposition of all the things your own team is equally guilty of?
As long as it takes heffo.
Funnily enough, I think the fact that it is Mayo in a final is of benefit to the opposing team. Definitely a case of "not on our watch" oddly galvanizes that team as rightly or wrongly no county wants to be the designated "chump" when Mayo break their hoodoo. Grimly determines that county in question.
Definitely a backhanded compliment , but would prefer not to have to play Mayo for some time now. Some serious bruising encounters with them the last 10 years or so. Supporters clearly dislike each other alot which doesn't help.
Unfortunately for Mayo, and imo again two handling errors cost them dearly in 2012 and 2016 finals.
Deegan certainly got a couple of big decisions wrong but I don't subscribe to the idea that he did enough to cost Mayo, Mayo certainly were on the receiving end of a couple of free's that shouldn't have been given.
Anyone else think Hennelly should just keep his mouth shut and take the criticism instead of looking for sympathy?
As for Connolly he's very hard to warm too, he's the most talented player of his generation but he's constantly looking for confrontation.
I think Mayo will be back and won't be far away next year as long as there isn't too many retirements. I heard a rumour that Higgins will retire but I just don't see it. This team have played into late August or September for the last 5 years, you have to admire their character given the heartbreak they've suffered.
Moran out. Conor O'Shea to FF and get McLoughlin up the bloody field. Coen could do the sweeper role.
That's for starters!
Quote from: Canalman on October 04, 2016, 11:11:23 AM
Funnily enough, I think the fact that it is Mayo in a final is of benefit to the opposing team. Definitely a case of "not on our watch" oddly galvanizes that team as rightly or wrongly no county wants to be the designated "chump" when Mayo break their hoodoo. Grimly determines that county in question.
Definitely a backhanded compliment , but would prefer not to have to play Mayo for some time now. Some serious bruising encounters with them the last 10 years or so. Supporters clearly dislike each other a lot which doesn't help.
Unfortunately for Mayo, and imo again two handling errors cost them dearly in 2012 and 2016 finals.
i have no complaints about the result really, the ref didn't cost us the game and by and large we gave as good as we got. i'm actually really looking forward to next year already and our league game on a Saturday night in croker will really be the start of another year!!!
as the fans not liking each other i have never really seen it everyone going mental for 70 mins then hand shakes all round and see you next time.
Quote from: guy crouchback on October 04, 2016, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Canalman on October 04, 2016, 11:11:23 AM
Funnily enough, I think the fact that it is Mayo in a final is of benefit to the opposing team. Definitely a case of "not on our watch" oddly galvanizes that team as rightly or wrongly no county wants to be the designated "chump" when Mayo break their hoodoo. Grimly determines that county in question.
Definitely a backhanded compliment , but would prefer not to have to play Mayo for some time now. Some serious bruising encounters with them the last 10 years or so. Supporters clearly dislike each other a lot which doesn't help.
Unfortunately for Mayo, and imo again two handling errors cost them dearly in 2012 and 2016 finals.
i have no complaints about the result really, the ref didn't cost us the game and by and large we gave as good as we got. i'm actually really looking forward to next year already and our league game on a Saturday night in croker will really be the start of another year!!!
as the fans not liking each other i have never really seen it everyone going mental for 70 mins then hand shakes all round and see you next time.
I haven't seen any problems between supporters either apart from online, where people behave in a way they never would in face-to-face circumstances.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 03, 2016, 06:21:43 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2016, 11:32:30 PM
Quote from: Halfquarter on October 02, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.
Ciaran Whelan and other ex Dublin players have been working hard for the last two weeks bad mouthing Keegan, it seems to have worked.
Of course it worked. Had to smile when I heard Whelan say that Keegan thing was not a black. When the cup is in the bag you can hand out all the platitudes you want. Job well done Ciarán and co.
While we shot ourselves in the foot again having 2 of the 3 most important officials from Leinster reeks of bad practice. Anybody who imagines that Dublin did not benefit form the big calls need to go and boil their heads.
So Dublin benefited from big calls! What card should have been shown for the sneaky charge on Jonny Cooper after the Mayo goal. A red card?
You are not the first Dub who reckons this was a red. The last few when asked why couldnt really say why. Maybe you can let me know how in the name of god you think thats a red card
I didn't suggest that it should necessarily have been a red card - I asked what colour should the card have been. As it was, there wasn't even a name noted.
Much of the focus of this thread has been on how Mayo were robbed by the ref. A little more objectivity is needed.
Its the balancing act by some that puzzles me, in awe of this great dublin team , the greatest of all time etc but Mayo are just average side with no marquee forward. It doesnt add up as mayo are the nearest to them and arguably with any drawn game with the replay ending in a one point win the losing team can think of ways it could or should of been won.
A few under 21s can put in the hard yards over the winter we will improve next year. This line that mayo are finished has been thrown out since 2012 defeat by the likes of spillane and co. When do people just admit they are wrong and look deeper into the culture change James Horan created in Mayo football.
This "greatest team ever" guff is just a sarcastic sneer and not taken seriously at all.
Kerry team of 70s/80s the best ever and will probably never be matched.
This current Dublin team is (again imo) competing with an awful lot of teams to be rated as second ............ Tyrone in the 00s, Down in the 1960s, Kerry in the 00s again, Galway 3 in a row team, Kerry in the 1930s ( I presume) , Dublin in the 70s Sean Boylan teams etc. Many others
Take your pick, all have merit.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2016, 11:33:39 AM
Moran out. Conor O'Shea to FF and get McLoughlin up the bloody field. Coen could do the sweeper role.
That's for starters!
That FF line needs pace, not another big, slow lad.
I'd agree that playing McLoughlin at the back is a luxury Mayo can't afford.
Was always good for a couple of points from the HF line.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 04, 2016, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2016, 11:33:39 AM
Moran out. Conor O'Shea to FF and get McLoughlin up the bloody field. Coen could do the sweeper role.
That's for starters!
That FF line needs pace, not another big, slow lad.
I'd agree that playing McLoughlin at the back is a luxury Mayo can't afford.
Was always good for a couple of points from the HF line.
He's certainly more dynamic and mobile than Aidan. I thought he did well when he came on and should have been played through on goal at one stage.
Hadn't seen this before, very poor stuff
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820860-dublin-gaa-apologises-for-lee-keegan-tweet/
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 01:47:50 PM
Hadn't seen this before, very poor stuff
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820860-dublin-gaa-apologises-for-lee-keegan-tweet/
At least they apologised for it. I believe it was removed soon afterwards?
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 01:47:50 PM
Hadn't seen this before, very poor stuff
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820860-dublin-gaa-apologises-for-lee-keegan-tweet/
How to keep from being so easily offended.
http://m.wikihow.com/Keep-From-Being-So-Easily-Offended
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html
Daft stuff.
They didn't score two own goals the first day because they have to travel up and down to training.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 04, 2016, 02:25:38 PM
Daft stuff.
They didn't score two own goals the first day because they have to travel up and down to training.
Keiran Shannon agrees with you. This is a good article.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-hard-questions-mayo-must-ask-to-reach-the-summit-424069.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-hard-questions-mayo-must-ask-to-reach-the-summit-424069.html)
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 04, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 01:47:50 PM
Hadn't seen this before, very poor stuff
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820860-dublin-gaa-apologises-for-lee-keegan-tweet/
How to keep from being so easily offended.
http://m.wikihow.com/Keep-From-Being-So-Easily-Offended
Considering what went on in the media the week before, I thought it was interesting
I thought Dublin defended brilliantly for the large part.
But a lot of our play with ball-in-hand was dreadful. It was as if our handpassing drills for the last 2 weeks were - "handpass 5 yards in front of him, and let him run onto it". So many unforced errors it was chronic, which when added to Mayo generally defending well led to just an average enough performance. We could have strolled over the line, instead we hobbled over.
When it was said after the first game that "Dublin's forwards must improve", there was only one player I was confident would improve and that was Dean Rock. Delighted for him, hard work pays off.
A couple of things Jim Gavin did that I strongly disagreed with, but they don't matter when you come out on the winning side.
Commiserations to Mayo. We were the better side this time, but you'll be back in the semi-final next year and again 2 games from glory. Won't be long coming.
I'd recommend you try and win the league. Silverware is great. Too many of the team has no national medals, and success breeds success.
The real winning team . . . Not many amateurs amongst them I should imagine!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct7BLRHXgAAQUzm.jpg:large)
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2016, 03:18:58 PM
The real winning team . . . Not many amateurs amongst them I should imagine!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct7BLRHXgAAQUzm.jpg:large)
The backroom staff could form their own football team plus full compliment of subs.
Quote from: Hound on October 04, 2016, 02:56:12 PM
I thought Dublin defended brilliantly for the large part.
But a lot of our play with ball-in-hand was dreadful. It was as if our handpassing drills for the last 2 weeks were - "handpass 5 yards in front of him, and let him run onto it". So many unforced errors it was chronic, which when added to Mayo generally defending well led to just an average enough performance. We could have strolled over the line, instead we hobbled over.
When it was said after the first game that "Dublin's forwards must improve", there was only one player I was confident would improve and that was Dean Rock. Delighted for him, hard work pays off.
A couple of things Jim Gavin did that I strongly disagreed with, but they don't matter when you come out on the winning side.
Commiserations to Mayo. We were the better side this time, but you'll be back in the semi-final next year and again 2 games from glory. Won't be long coming.
I'd recommend you try and win the league. Silverware is great. Too many of the team has no national medals, and success breeds success.
Did Dublin win the League before 2011? Do you honestly think it would it have helped them if they had?
Dublin's were much more defensive this year I thought but maybe that's because they met Donegal, Kerry and Mayo twice once they came out of Leinster. All those teams played with heavy blanket defence I thought and so that shows up why their forwards struggled so much from play this year.
Brogan scored 6.21 last year in 7 games. This year he only managed 1.10.
Rock scored 2.23 last year but this year he got 1.58.
The importance of a reliable free taker is very important in this new era of mass defensive systems where having a top elite forward doesn't matter so much any more as he will be marked out of it most often by the top teams. I think this is why Mayo were able to stay so close to Dublin as Cillian O'Connor could match their free taking ability for most of the game.
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2016, 03:18:58 PM
The real winning team . . . Not many amateurs amongst them I should imagine!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct7BLRHXgAAQUzm.jpg:large)
Still smaller than Mayo's - the only pro's are the Physio & S&C coach. Plus that's Jimmy Gavin Senior at the end of the front right row.
Proper order, wouldn't expect or accept anything less.
at the home coming some one i think rochford said the they were 50 people overall involved in the mayo senior team. Im presuming that includes player .
so both team would be of a similar size id record.
im sure the medics get a few bob as well
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 04, 2016, 11:29:07 AM
Deegan certainly got a couple of big decisions wrong but I don't subscribe to the idea that he did enough to cost Mayo, Mayo certainly were on the receiving end of a couple of free's that shouldn't have been given.
Anyone else think Hennelly should just keep his mouth shut and take the criticism instead of looking for sympathy?
As for Connolly he's very hard to warm too, he's the most talented player of his generation but he's constantly looking for confrontation.
I think Mayo will be back and won't be far away next year as long as there isn't too many retirements. I heard a rumour that Higgins will retire but I just don't see it. This team have played into late August or September for the last 5 years, you have to admire their character given the heartbreak they've suffered.
in a one point game almost any mistake a ref make can swing the game one way or another , a few black cards early on , aidan o shea could have had a penalty,a soft fee kick given or not given etc etc . probably as many could have gone the other way but biased eyes coudnt see it but thats all part of the game.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2016, 03:18:58 PM
The real winning team . . . Not many amateurs amongst them I should imagine!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct7BLRHXgAAQUzm.jpg:large)
Still smaller than Mayo's - the only pro's are the Physio & S&C coach. Plus that's Jimmy Gavin Senior at the end of the front right row.
Good to see Jimmy wearing the Cooraclare colours. :)
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 04, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
Did Dublin win the League before 2011? Do you honestly think it would it have helped them if they had?
Did our best to win it in 2011, and came up a point short.
Won a very tight final in 2013.
I'd say both runs helped us in the quest for Sam those years.
Cork won the league in 2010 after losing in the All Ireland final in 2 of the previous 3 years. 2010 they finally won Sam.
Mayo have only been to one league final in the last 6 years, and were beaten by 5 points in it.
I'm not saying there's any direct correlation or guaranteed formula, but if Mayo get to a league final in 2017, it would probably be the 3rd biggest game of the year for them (after possible AI semi and final), and I'd say it would be pretty useful.
Being Rochford's second year, he's well bedded in, there's no good reason not to go full throttle and try and win it (while blooding a few of the U21s too of course, but you can try and do both).
Think I'm right in saying that before 2011 our last appearance in a league final was in 99, when we lost to Cork. I think Gilroy and Galvin's prioritising of the league undoubtedly had an effect on us. Remember, under Pillar we were relegated to Div 2 for a season. I think as we go on the League will become a more and more useful barometer on where teams are on a national level, though there will still be scope for the likes of Tipp to make a run through the qualifiers.
Dublin's last sustained period of dominance in Leinster and on the All Ireland stage in the early 90s was buttressed by league final appearances - won it in 87, beaten in the final in 88 after a replay by Meath, beat Kildare in 91 and Donegal in 93 in the finals - then we dropped off the map. No coincidence that we did the same in the championship.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 04, 2016, 03:35:05 PM
Dublin's were much more defensive this year I thought but maybe that's because they met Donegal, Kerry and Mayo twice once they came out of Leinster. All those teams played with heavy blanket defence I thought and so that shows up why their forwards struggled so much from play this year.
Brogan scored 6.21 last year in 7 games. This year he only managed 1.10.
Rock scored 2.23 last year but this year he got 1.58.
The importance of a reliable free taker is very important in this new era of mass defensive systems where having a top elite forward doesn't matter so much any more as he will be marked out of it most often by the top teams. I think this is why Mayo were able to stay so close to Dublin as Cillian O'Connor could match their free taking ability for most of the game.
All teams playing against Dublin in the league/championship set up with blanket defences so the dublin players have become conditioned to playing a slower game and working space for shooting chances. Even so Brogan has struggle for form this year and was anonymous from the qtr finals onwards. It shows how far Dubin have come that they can drop/carry him for the big games and still win the all ireland.
Any of Dublin's forward options on the bench would be starters for May and until they find a couple of pacy inside forwards they will continue to come up short. They just don't have a go to forward to get kick a point in tight games. Andy Moran is the closest to this but he is on his last legs.
Quote from: Hound on October 04, 2016, 04:33:12 PM
Quote from: Thy Kingdom Come on October 04, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
Did Dublin win the League before 2011? Do you honestly think it would it have helped them if they had?
Did our best to win it in 2011, and came up a point short.
Won a very tight final in 2013.
I'd say both runs helped us in the quest for Sam those years.
Cork won the league in 2010 after losing in the All Ireland final in 2 of the previous 3 years. 2010 they finally won Sam.
Mayo have only been to one league final in the last 6 years, and were beaten by 5 points in it.
I'm not saying there's any direct correlation or guaranteed formula, but if Mayo get to a league final in 2017, it would probably be the 3rd biggest game of the year for them (after possible AI semi and final), and I'd say it would be pretty useful.
Being Rochford's second year, he's well bedded in, there's no good reason not to go full throttle and try and win it (while blooding a few of the U21s too of course, but you can try and do both).
So the answer is ye did not win it before ye won an All Ireland? Lets just say Mayo are foolish enough to take your advise and go for a league title. What happens to their confidence if they lose to Dublin in the final playing in Dublins home pitch?
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2016, 03:18:58 PM
The real winning team . . . Not many amateurs amongst them I should imagine!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct7BLRHXgAAQUzm.jpg:large)
Still smaller than Mayo's - the only pro's are the Physio & S&C coach. Plus that's Jimmy Gavin Senior at the end of the front right row.
Smaller than 2015 Mayo back room you mean.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
I'll field this one.
Aidan O'Shea had his apologists out all over the place after his blatant bit of cheating against Fermanagh, by and large he was protect by many media figures and had the temerity to make bare faced lies when denying his dive which showed Fermanagh and Che Cullen absolutely zero respect.
O'Shea also went looking for Cavangh to get a second yellow in Tyrone and made the card waving gesture to Gough so if you're going to start crying about injustice and double standards I would quit before you make yourself look very stupid.
Quote from: Canalman on October 04, 2016, 01:09:54 PM
This "greatest team ever" guff is just a sarcastic sneer and not taken seriously at all.
Kerry team of 70s/80s the best ever and will probably never be matched.
This current Dublin team is (again imo) competing with an awful lot of teams to be rated as second ............ Tyrone in the 00s, Down in the 1960s, Kerry in the 00s again, Galway 3 in a row team, Kerry in the 1930s ( I presume) , Dublin in the 70s Sean Boylan teams etc. Many others
Take your pick, all have merit.
Spot on. Whoever gives Dublin that label have either poor memories or haven't been following football very long
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 04, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 01:47:50 PM
Hadn't seen this before, very poor stuff
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820860-dublin-gaa-apologises-for-lee-keegan-tweet/
How to keep from being so easily offended.
http://m.wikihow.com/Keep-From-Being-So-Easily-Offended
I don't think there was anything wrong with that tweet.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
How many times have this Dublin team beat Mayo? And how many times does it have to be to stop being lucky?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
I'll field this one.
Aidan O'Shea had his apologists out all over the place after his blatant bit of cheating against Fermanagh, by and large he was protect by many media figures and had the temerity to make bare faced lies when denying his dive which showed Fermanagh and Che Cullen absolutely zero respect.
O'Shea also went looking for Cavangh to get a second yellow in Tyrone and made the card waving gesture to Gough so if you're going to start crying about injustice and double standards I would quit before you make yourself look very stupid.
Are you having a laugh. Aidan O'Shea was castigated for it. It was a huge topic for a couple of weeks. He was absolutely hammered for it and your only problem is that you don't feel he got as much as yon idiot from Tyrone who had his hair rubbed. As for the second part. Well like a lot of stuff you post. You just made that up.
But anyway. That's not the point I'm making. How much have you heard about Connolly's dive and gesturing for cards
Keegan got castigated for taking 3 punches in the 1st game too, Connolly was the victim in that matter.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Whatever you're smoking I'd love some
How many finals have Mayo lost going back to the Meath final and replay by being too soft?
Kerry (the masters of cynical football) ArmaghTyrone Dublin got away with it for years. Now that Mayo have realised what it needs they get slated
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Rather then letting loose with bile about whether dublin are the greatest or not the greatest etc - you deflect from the reasons you lost the game. I do wonder with Mayo's inbred hatred of Dublin will they allow that blind them from the fundamental reasons why they are yet again All Ireland less Lar?
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
1- For a county that allegedly doesn't play many other sports. Why can't they produce top class forwards ( Mc Donald) excepted). It's a terrible indictment of the county but one over 20 years they've done absolutely nothing about. ( except blame Dublin!)
2- Poor management decisions . It just beggars belief at this point. Rumour has it Clarke had retired. Hard to blame him.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:12:17 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Whatever you're smoking I'd love some
;D ;D
Ah, the usual ad hominem attacks when unable to accept facts.
Point out one single statement of mine that you find issue with.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:25:50 PM
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
Rather bizarre that you'd include 2012 as one they could have won and 2013 as one they couldn't, given that they were a lot closer to winning the 2013 final than the 2012 one and their championship performances in 2013 were more impressive overall than in 2012.
A goalkeeping mistake turned the 2013 final too at a time when Mayo were well on top.
Donegal were going to win in 2012 regardless of what happened early on.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 04, 2016, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
I'll field this one.
Aidan O'Shea had his apologists out all over the place after his blatant bit of cheating against Fermanagh, by and large he was protect by many media figures and had the temerity to make bare faced lies when denying his dive which showed Fermanagh and Che Cullen absolutely zero respect.
O'Shea also went looking for Cavangh to get a second yellow in Tyrone and made the card waving gesture to Gough so if you're going to start crying about injustice and double standards I would quit before you make yourself look very stupid.
Are you having a laugh. Aidan O'Shea was castigated for it. It was a huge topic for a couple of weeks. He was absolutely hammered for it and your only problem is that you don't feel he got as much as yon idiot from Tyrone who had his hair rubbed. As for the second part. Well like a lot of stuff you post. You just made that up.
But anyway. That's not the point I'm making. How much have you heard about Connolly's dive and gesturing for cards
Castigated for it? Hammered for it?
He was in his f**k castigated. Dessie Dolan said he was opportunistic live on air after the game, Ciaran Whelan asked for people to lay off O'Shea. O'Shea came out and lied about it in the aftermath and showed no remorse, had his manager come out and lie for him. Tiernan McCann got slaughtered last year, Aidan O'Shea had apologists out for him all over the country - no bans, no calls for public apologies, no bad smell following his team around. Whatever about defending their player, there wasn't even an acknowledgement out of the Mayo camp that what he did was wrong.
How much did we hear about Aidan O'Shea gesturing for a yellow card against Sean Cavanagh? About the same we have heard about Connolly. Did Connolly get Keegan done? Most definitely. Was it gamesmanship? Most definitely. Connolly was fouled though, it was a yellow card but he was doing his best to make sure Deegan issued the black.
Was there a certain ironic justice to it? Most definitely. Keegan has effectively used underhand tactics and the dark arts to get Connolly put off and keep him quiet in the past so I don't think Keegan can feel too hard done by when the shoe is on the other foot.
You seem to be whinging about things your own county has had no problem using in the past. Do you remember James Horan using the media to heap pressure on Joe McQuillan before the 2013 All Ireland final or his comments about Donegal's physicality before their 2013 meeting.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:25:50 PM
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
Rather bizarre that you'd include 2012 as one they could have won and 2013 as one they couldn't, given that they were a lot closer to winning the 2013 final than the 2012 one and their championship performances in 2013 were more impressive overall than in 2012.
A goalkeeping mistake turned the 2013 final too at a time when Mayo were well on top.
Donegal were going to win in 2012 regardless of what happened early on.
I don't agree. Putting Keane on Murphy was another gaffe. Game was over after 10mins. No goals and it was a horse race.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Rather then letting loose with bile about whether dublin are the greatest or not the greatest etc - you deflect from the reasons you lost the game. I do wonder with Mayo's inbred hatred of Dublin will they allow that blind them from the fundamental reasons why they are yet again All Ireland less Lar?
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
1- For a county that allegedly doesn't play many other sports. Why can't they produce top class forwards ( Mc Donald) excepted). It's a terrible indictment of the county but one over 20 years they've done absolutely nothing about. ( except blame Dublin!)
2- Poor management decisions . It just beggars belief at this point. Rumour has it Clarke had retired. Hard to blame him.
Now, now Indy, stick to the point if you please.
You may be talking about 2004, 2006, 2013 but I was quite clear that I was referring to the two games this year and this year alone. My sole point is many of you heads like to gloat over your win, forgetting that Mayo well and truly fucked themselves up and Dublin are not to blame in any way for this.
It's when Dub supporters here and on the street, start throwing shapes about how great their side is that I object to- nothing more.
As for Mayo's lack of quality forwards, the team notched up 1-14 the last day and 0-15 the day before and against an experienced defence like Dublin's that's okay by any standards.
You never stop do you bomber?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:12:17 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Whatever you're smoking I'd love some
;D ;D
Ah, the usual ad hominem attacks when unable to accept facts.
Point out one single statement of mine that you find issue with.
That's 5 times Mayo have played Dublin and still haven't win and for all their battling how many times were Mayo ahead in the 2 games. Dublin got their share of luck on saturday but they didn't pick the Mayo team. They were the better team on saturday and even James Horan admitted Dublin should have win more comfortably. Fitzsimons puts the ball over the bar in the last minute like he should have Mayo don't get last minute chance to equalise.
You can bitch and moan about Dublin's spending but at least they are producing top class footballers. The forwards on the bench for Dublin would walk on to the Mayo team.
I'd be more worried about the standard of coaching in Mayo that the county is unable to produce forwards capable of kicking the football over the bar. Mayo's most threatening attackers are Lee Keegan a wing back and 32 year old Andy Moran who can't last 70 minutes anymore and Mayo fans wonder why they can't win an all Ireland.
Feel free to call into Parnell park to visit sam any time over the winter. There is a nice banner on the railway bridge at busaras/Connolly station to remind all the culchies visiting Dublin where Sam is staying for the 2nd year in a row.😜
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:25:50 PM
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
Rather bizarre that you'd include 2012 as one they could have won and 2013 as one they couldn't, given that they were a lot closer to winning the 2013 final than the 2012 one and their championship performances in 2013 were more impressive overall than in 2012.
A goalkeeping mistake turned the 2013 final too at a time when Mayo were well on top.
Donegal were going to win in 2012 regardless of what happened early on.
In 2013 Eoghan O'Gara did his hamstring with 15 min left and dubs were basically down to 14 men. Then with 10 min left RoryO'Carroll got concussed and they were down to 13 fit players and Mayo still couldn't win. In that final Mayo didn't score a point from play in the 2nd half. That's not unlucky, that's just rubbish
Quote from: east down gael on October 04, 2016, 10:51:45 PM
You never stop do you bomber?
At least he's moved on from insulting and belittling Roscommon anyway >:(
Quote from: dublin7 on October 04, 2016, 10:55:25 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:12:17 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Whatever you're smoking I'd love some
;D ;D
Ah, the usual ad hominem attacks when unable to accept facts.
Point out one single statement of mine that you find issue with.
That's 5 times Mayo have played Dublin and still haven't win and for all their battling how many times were Mayo ahead in the 2 games. Dublin got their share of luck on saturday but they didn't pick the Mayo team. They were the better team on saturday and even James Horan admitted Dublin should have win more comfortably. Fitzsimons puts the ball over the bar in the last minute like he should have Mayo don't get last minute chance to equalise.
You can bitch and moan about Dublin's spending but at least they are producing top class footballers. The forwards on the bench for Dublin would walk on to the Mayo team.
I'd be more worried about the standard of coaching in Mayo that the county is unable to produce forwards capable of kicking the football over the bar. Mayo's most threatening attackers are Lee Keegan a wing back and 32 year old Andy Moran who can't last 70 minutes anymore and Mayo fans wonder why they can't win an all Ireland.
Feel free to call into Parnell park to visit sam any time over the winter. There is a nice banner on the railway bridge at busaras/Connolly station to remind all the culchies visiting Dublin where Sam is staying for the 2nd year in a row.😜
The gloating makes you look very silly given the loaded dice . Utterly pathetic .
QuoteFitzsimons puts the ball over the bar in the last minute like he should have Mayo don't get last minute chance to equalise.
Ah FFS lad ... gloating. And then offering a level of analysis on a par with "if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle"
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
Quote from: dublin7 on October 04, 2016, 10:55:25 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 08:12:17 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2016, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Dubs are not better than Mayo
Given that Mayo have had 10/11 chances to beat Dublin under Gavin and haven't succeeded, that's a beauty.
I think, my friend, you confuse "better" with "luckier."
Take the All Ireland and the replay: Dublin won the title and are being acclaimed as the best team of all time etc. etc. whereas the poor culchies get the usual sympathetic noises and are sent packing to wait another year for the same inevitable result.
But were Dublin the better of the pair over the two games or did Mayo goof spectacularly as they usually. Did Dublin win the AI or did Mayo lose it?
In the first game, Mayo gifted two goals to Dublin; went in at the interval five points behind and were still 3 points down after 68 minutes and still managed to draw level.
In the replay, Dublin started off with 3 straight points all as a result of Rochford losing his marbles and switching goalies.
In spite of this, Mayo closed the deficit and then Hennelly made a duck's arse of clearing a ball that wound up with Connolly and Keegan, the most influential player on the field did his duty and took his black card for the greater good of the team. At this time, Keegan was making a big girl's blouse out of Conolly one more time and his departure robbed Mayo of its' most valuable player.
In spite of all this, COC could have brought the game into extra time if his last free had gone over.
It didn't and so the Dubs are AI champions for 2016.
Don't tell me that they were the better team.
I accept the result and all one can do is rev up for next year. I don't know of any other Mayo fan who is bitching about the result either.
But it's the gloating from the blue corner that bugs me.
Given that the dice are loaded in every conceivable way, against all other counties, one could be led to believe that this Dublin squad are the greatest thing since the sliced pan.
A bit of humility would be in order.
Whatever you're smoking I'd love some
;D ;D
Ah, the usual ad hominem attacks when unable to accept facts.
Point out one single statement of mine that you find issue with.
That's 5 times Mayo have played Dublin and still haven't win and for all their battling how many times were Mayo ahead in the 2 games. Dublin got their share of luck on saturday but they didn't pick the Mayo team. They were the better team on saturday and even James Horan admitted Dublin should have win more comfortably. Fitzsimons puts the ball over the bar in the last minute like he should have Mayo don't get last minute chance to equalise.
You can bitch and moan about Dublin's spending but at least they are producing top class footballers. The forwards on the bench for Dublin would walk on to the Mayo team.
I'd be more worried about the standard of coaching in Mayo that the county is unable to produce forwards capable of kicking the football over the bar. Mayo's most threatening attackers are Lee Keegan a wing back and 32 year old Andy Moran who can't last 70 minutes anymore and Mayo fans wonder why they can't win an all Ireland.
Feel free to call into Parnell park to visit sam any time over the winter. There is a nice banner on the railway bridge at busaras/Connolly station to remind all the culchies visiting Dublin where Sam is staying for the 2nd year in a row.😜
With due respect my friend, that load of BS have nothing to do with what I wrote.
"Ah, the usual ad hominem attacks when unable to accept facts.
Point out one single statement of mine that you find issue with."That's what I wrote and that's what I stand over.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
It's not cliches. How many points did your starting forwards score last Sunday. leave the first day out of it.
Dublin were poor the first day. Last sunday dublin played well. that's the real test.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:49:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 10:25:50 PM
Mayo could have won an AI in 1996 and 1997. They could also have won in 2012 and 2016.
I'm taking out 2004 and 2006, 2013. They weren't good enough in any of those years.
Rather bizarre that you'd include 2012 as one they could have won and 2013 as one they couldn't, given that they were a lot closer to winning the 2013 final than the 2012 one and their championship performances in 2013 were more impressive overall than in 2012.
A goalkeeping mistake turned the 2013 final too at a time when Mayo were well on top.
Donegal were going to win in 2012 regardless of what happened early on.
I don't agree. Putting Keane on Murphy was another gaffe. Game was over after 10mins. No goals and it was a horse race.
No goalkeeping mistake in 2013 and Mayo are likely taking a 5 points or more lead into half-time. Dublin were not functioning and the lucky goal got them back on track. Different game had Mayo no given it up. The result would still have been in doubt but Dublin would have been in a sticky situation.
Donegal mowed teams down in 2012, especially in the third quarter, and there's no reason to think Mayo would have been any different, especially with Mayo being without Andy Moran and also a year away from reaching their peak. They would have done it to Dublin too in 2012 had Dublin beaten Mayo in that semi-final.
Quote from: blast05 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:13 PM
QuoteFitzsimons puts the ball over the bar in the last minute like he should have Mayo don't get last minute chance to equalise.
Ah FFS lad ... gloating. And then offering a level of analysis on a par with "if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle"
If Lar can use if, but, maybe in his analysis then so can I. I wouldn't normally gloat but you can feel his bitterness about Dublin and its too easy to resist
So when Dublin aren't allowed to be effective (drawn game) we aren't allowed to consider it Indiana ?
One point in the overall (perceived) poor score returns from both sets of forward was the extent of the frees awarded in the replay. Mayo had 10 kickable frees and Dublin at least 7. If both teams weren't persistently fouling with their massed defences, then the forwards would have had more shots from play, thus more scores and more goal scoring chances .... more momentum.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
It's not cliches. How many points did your starting forwards score last Sunday. leave the first day out of it.
Dublin were poor the first day. Last sunday dublin played well. that's the real test.
;D ;D
I shouldn't reply to a troll but out of respect for your cache of celtic crosses...
3. Compared to 4 for Dublin, three of which came in the first 10 mins, 2 directly from poor Mayo kickouts.
But you're right, natural forwards, blah blah blah. Rochford will surely have spies down in PP to see what kind of magic fairy dust ye're sprinkling on ye're free scoring forwards.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 04, 2016, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
I'll field this one.
Aidan O'Shea had his apologists out all over the place after his blatant bit of cheating against Fermanagh, by and large he was protect by many media figures and had the temerity to make bare faced lies when denying his dive which showed Fermanagh and Che Cullen absolutely zero respect.
O'Shea also went looking for Cavangh to get a second yellow in Tyrone and made the card waving gesture to Gough so if you're going to start crying about injustice and double standards I would quit before you make yourself look very stupid.
Are you having a laugh. Aidan O'Shea was castigated for it. It was a huge topic for a couple of weeks. He was absolutely hammered for it and your only problem is that you don't feel he got as much as yon idiot from Tyrone who had his hair rubbed. As for the second part. Well like a lot of stuff you post. You just made that up.
But anyway. That's not the point I'm making. How much have you heard about Connolly's dive and gesturing for cards
Castigated for it? Hammered for it?
He was in his f**k castigated. Dessie Dolan said he was opportunistic live on air after the game, Ciaran Whelan asked for people to lay off O'Shea. O'Shea came out and lied about it in the aftermath and showed no remorse, had his manager come out and lie for him. Tiernan McCann got slaughtered last year, Aidan O'Shea had apologists out for him all over the country - no bans, no calls for public apologies, no bad smell following his team around. Whatever about defending their player, there wasn't even an acknowledgement out of the Mayo camp that what he did was wrong.
How much did we hear about Aidan O'Shea gesturing for a yellow card against Sean Cavanagh? About the same we have heard about Connolly. Did Connolly get Keegan done? Most definitely. Was it gamesmanship? Most definitely. Connolly was fouled though, it was a yellow card but he was doing his best to make sure Deegan issued the black.
Was there a certain ironic justice to it? Most definitely. Keegan has effectively used underhand tactics and the dark arts to get Connolly put off and keep him quiet in the past so I don't think Keegan can feel too hard done by when the shoe is on the other foot.
You seem to be whinging about things your own county has had no problem using in the past. Do you remember James Horan using the media to heap pressure on Joe McQuillan before the 2013 All Ireland final or his comments about Donegal's physicality before their 2013 meeting.
See now you just gone of on a rant and making shit up. I'll leave you to it
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
It's not cliches. How many points did your starting forwards score last Sunday. leave the first day out of it.
Dublin were poor the first day. Last sunday dublin played well. that's the real test.
Both teams played well the last day. Dublin made fewer errors and most importantly management did not mess up.
However Andrews and Mannion started and didn t score. Neither did McManamon or Kilkenny. Brogan and Costello got a bit of slack and points when introduced but not sure they would have got that slack if they started.
At the end of the day it was still only a 1 point game after we committed the mother and father of all c**k-ups before a ball was contested in anger.
No more than the own gaols in first half were unprecedented in a top game (admittedly they resulted from pressure and incidental), I cannot recall a change before a big game that blew up spectacularly like the goalie thing did.
Anyway that is for Mayo people to digest and get sick over.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2016, 11:46:56 PM
No more than the own gaols in first half were unprecedented in a top game (admittedly they resulted from pressure and incidental), I cannot recall a change before a big game that blew up spectacularly like the goalie thing did.
Not a change, but Brian Cody's decision to play Henry Shefflin and John Tennyson, both of whom were suffering from serious cruciate injuries, for the 2010 All-Ireland hurling final takes some beating.
One of the reasons Dublin are so successful is because they have forwards who step up at key moments to kick points or score goals when it matters. This season at various stages McMenamon, Rock, Costello, Mannion, O'Gara have got important scores from nothing when it matters. Mayo just don't have that bar COC in the first game. Cormac Costello kicked 3 points on saturday. 2 on his left and one with his right and the likes of Brogan, McMenamon and Connolly are also equally comfortable shooting on either foot. How many forwards could you say the same about on the Mayo squad?
Quote from: criostlinn on October 04, 2016, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 04, 2016, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 04, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blast05 on October 03, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
NetNitrate .... you know the intent of that rule is to deal with the 3rd man tackle.
And Keegan did not "deliberately collide" with him.
My frustration with the episode is with Deegan (and Connolly for doing a soccer esque on it in looking for a card) for looking to have changed his mind after Connolly gave him a lecture, i.e.: as previously mentioned, Deegan first indicated a jersey bull but after the lecture he indicated a pull down movement. Keegan, if anything, was too innocent in that moment in that he should have jumped in and shoved Connolly and made it clear to Deegan that Connolly went to ground of his own volition (i.e.: dived).
Anyway, its one incident. Bar that, i would be 100% looking in the mirror to explain why we lost .....but its hard to move on from it immediately given the influence from the ex-Dublin players in the week leading up to the match
Not a dive. Only a dive when Aiden O Shea does it. And he wasnt waving an imaginary card around or trying to get Keegan sent off. Again these are only actions of that O'Shea fella.
I'll field this one.
Aidan O'Shea had his apologists out all over the place after his blatant bit of cheating against Fermanagh, by and large he was protect by many media figures and had the temerity to make bare faced lies when denying his dive which showed Fermanagh and Che Cullen absolutely zero respect.
O'Shea also went looking for Cavangh to get a second yellow in Tyrone and made the card waving gesture to Gough so if you're going to start crying about injustice and double standards I would quit before you make yourself look very stupid.
Are you having a laugh. Aidan O'Shea was castigated for it. It was a huge topic for a couple of weeks. He was absolutely hammered for it and your only problem is that you don't feel he got as much as yon idiot from Tyrone who had his hair rubbed. As for the second part. Well like a lot of stuff you post. You just made that up.
But anyway. That's not the point I'm making. How much have you heard about Connolly's dive and gesturing for cards
Castigated for it? Hammered for it?
He was in his f**k castigated. Dessie Dolan said he was opportunistic live on air after the game, Ciaran Whelan asked for people to lay off O'Shea. O'Shea came out and lied about it in the aftermath and showed no remorse, had his manager come out and lie for him. Tiernan McCann got slaughtered last year, Aidan O'Shea had apologists out for him all over the country - no bans, no calls for public apologies, no bad smell following his team around. Whatever about defending their player, there wasn't even an acknowledgement out of the Mayo camp that what he did was wrong.
How much did we hear about Aidan O'Shea gesturing for a yellow card against Sean Cavanagh? About the same we have heard about Connolly. Did Connolly get Keegan done? Most definitely. Was it gamesmanship? Most definitely. Connolly was fouled though, it was a yellow card but he was doing his best to make sure Deegan issued the black.
Was there a certain ironic justice to it? Most definitely. Keegan has effectively used underhand tactics and the dark arts to get Connolly put off and keep him quiet in the past so I don't think Keegan can feel too hard done by when the shoe is on the other foot.
You seem to be whinging about things your own county has had no problem using in the past. Do you remember James Horan using the media to heap pressure on Joe McQuillan before the 2013 All Ireland final or his comments about Donegal's physicality before their 2013 meeting.
See now you just gone of on a rant and making shit up. I'll leave you to it
None of what I said is made up. It is all there, it all happened. Your hypocrisy has a luminous glow off it though.
Moy ... perhaps lay off the management ?!
They are the same as the players in that they do it merely for the love of the game, parish, county, etc.
No money, equally big time commitment and no reward of actually playing .... and they typically have families at home unlike most of the players.
Their (really brave) decision was made with an honest integrity driven by what they thought was best for the team.
I would sooner have a management that was not afraid to make these calls than the opposite (even in bloody soccer, Jose Mourinho was afraid to drop Wayne Rooney and instead chose to let him continue play for a few games so everyone could see what he was thinking).
Ultimately we can see it was wrong and thats tough but lets treat and respect the management as we do the players .... i.e.: we are forgiving of Robbie and of Cillian for missing the free and for Aidan and Conor and Andy for missing kickable chances from play .... so Rochford and go should be the given the same benefit.
The media and Mayo supporters appear to have castigated Rochford to such an extent that his position may become impossible moving forward. It comes back to that old mantra of the need to look for a scapegoat. Ultimately Mayo lead for about 5/6 minutes of the 160 over the 2 matches and were beaten by a better side however marginal. A former Mayo goalkeeper gave a very good interview about this today and it should be heeded. Far too many idiots out there who think they know better.
On Dublin, I think the manner in which they struggled to overcome Mayo has dampened people's willingness to label them as a great side. I'd prefer to give Mayo some credit as they are one of the best sides never to win an AI title. Consider this. But for a Donegal ambush in 2014 we would be looking at a 4 in a row side in both League and championship in an era when the demands make it very difficult to keep coming back year on year. They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
Quote from: blast05 on October 05, 2016, 12:29:21 AM
Moy ... perhaps lay off the management ?!
They are the same as the players in that they do it merely for the love of the game, parish, county, etc.
No money, equally big time commitment and no reward of actually playing .... and they typically have families at home unlike most of the players.
Their (really brave) decision was made with an honest integrity driven by what they thought was best for the team.
I would sooner have a management that was not afraid to make these calls than the opposite (even in bloody soccer, Jose Mourinho was afraid to drop Wayne Rooney and instead chose to let him continue play for a few games so everyone could see what he was thinking).
Ultimately we can see it was wrong and thats tough but lets treat and respect the management as we do the players .... i.e.: we are forgiving of Robbie and of Cillian for missing the free and for Aidan and Conor and Andy for missing kickable chances from play .... so Rochford and go should be the given the same benefit.
Believe me, I hope this management stays in place. They got so much right as a management where the other main contenders were in place for a number of years. They nearly got everything right in fact.
The decision was costly but no undoing it. We move on.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
O Byrne cup doesn't count as official games? That unbeaten run probably says as much about the opposition Dublin face and none of us know how much more the Kerry and Tyrone teams of the 00s would have won with todays lack of competition.
If my calculations are right Mayo have lost 11 times in their last 29 league and championship games.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 05, 2016, 02:32:50 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
O Byrne cup doesn't count as official games? That unbeaten run probably says as much about the opposition Dublin face and none of us know how much more the Kerry and Tyrone teams of the 00s would have won with todays lack of competition.
If my calculations are right Mayo have lost 11 times in their last 29 league and championship games.
Jim Gavin record as manager between Championship & League is played 61 won 50 drawn 5 lost 6 scored 91-978 conceded 44-726
Been reading through a lot of the messages and I can't help believe that people are being too hard on the goalkeeper about the first 3/4 points.
In my view, Dublin's management won the initial battle over kick out strategy, not that the goalie made stupid kick outs.
After the first point was scored, Rock sprinted 20m over to his marker and barged into him, and keep shoving and bumping into him. Andrews was doing the same in the other corner. We thought that the Dublin forwards were pumped up, but it became clear that Dublin's inside forwards were going man to man for kick outs and were taking the corner back option away from Mayo.
The half forward line were doing the same. Meanwhile the half backs pushed up. This meant that they forced the goalie to go long, but Dublin took risks to ensure they were doubling up in the middle. The result, they dominated Mayo's kick out at the start of the game.
It took Mayo about 10-15mins to adjust and when they did, they started to get some change in the kick outs (and got a goal from one)
The goalie messed up with the short kickout that Keegan got the black card for and the catch, but Dublin management won the battle in the first 10 mins.
Also, all this talk about Mayo needing scoring forwards. Their total yesterday would have won the last 5-6 All Irelands, and that was recorded against a highly impressive defense, so I think they have the players (a couple of new additions wouldn't hurt) but they have the team to win one, just need to drive over that winning line
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-being-humble-is-the-bedrock-of-dublin-s-greatness-1.2816282
He calls it right.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 09:00:19 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-being-humble-is-the-bedrock-of-dublin-s-greatness-1.2816282
He calls it right.
Dubliin's achievement in going bck to back seems to be less of a story than Mayo losing another all ireland final. At least Darragh & Tomas O'se are wiling to acknowledge how good this Dublin team is. Looking forward to Bomber Liston's piece this week. Knowing him it will be more about Mayo losing than Dublin winning
it would be great if the fans could be as humble as the team.
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 05, 2016, 08:54:25 AM
Also, all this talk about Mayo needing scoring forwards. Their total yesterday would have won the last 5-6 All Irelands, and that was recorded against a highly impressive defense, so I think they have the players (a couple of new additions wouldn't hurt) but they have the team to win one, just need to drive over that winning line
In the seven championship meetings between Dublin and Mayo since 2006, the scores are remarkably similar.
Dublin scored 2-12, 0-16, 2-12, 2-12, 3-15, 2-9 and 1-15. Four times out of seven they scored 18 overall points, with only the 3-15 in the 2015 replay being a high outlier, with the 2-9 in this year's draw being the lowest.
Mayo's scoring in these games is very consistent. They scored 1-16, 0-19, 1-14, 1-15, 1-14, 0-15 and 1-14. All within a four point range, with three identical 1-14s in there. Take out the drawn final this year and it's a two point range in six games.
1-14 or the equivalent is also the highest losing score in a 70 minute All-Ireland final, being managed four times - Kerry (0-17) in 1982, Meath in 1991, Mayo in 2013 and Mayo in 2016.
Get to 1-15 or the equivalent and you'll win an All-Ireland final.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2016, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 05, 2016, 08:54:25 AM
Also, all this talk about Mayo needing scoring forwards. Their total yesterday would have won the last 5-6 All Irelands, and that was recorded against a highly impressive defense, so I think they have the players (a couple of new additions wouldn't hurt) but they have the team to win one, just need to drive over that winning line
In the seven championship meetings between Dublin and Mayo since 2006, the scores are remarkably similar.
Dublin scored 2-12, 0-16, 2-12, 2-12, 3-15, 2-9 and 1-15. Four times out of seven they scored 18 overall points, with only the 3-15 in the 2015 replay being a high outlier, with the 2-9 in this year's draw being the lowest.
Mayo's scoring in these games is very consistent. They scored 1-16, 0-19, 1-14, 1-15, 1-14, 0-15 and 1-14. All within a four point range, with three identical 1-14s in there. Take out the drawn final this year and it's a two point range in six games.
1-14 or the equivalent is also the highest losing score in a 70 minute All-Ireland final, being managed four times - Kerry (0-17) in 1982, Meath in 1991, Mayo in 2013 and Mayo in 2016.
Get to 1-15 or the equivalent and you'll win an All-Ireland final.
They've lost 3 of the last 5 finals to teams with a superior forward line. Its not too say they can't win an All Ireland when playing a team with a better set of forwards but it would certainly help their cause if they had better forwards.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
On Dublin, I think the manner in which they struggled to overcome Mayo has dampened people's willingness to label them as a great side. I'd prefer to give Mayo some credit as they are one of the best sides never to win an AI title.
Over the 2 games, Mayo's defenders' performances was excellent. Dublin's very good too in fairness. Durcan and Harrison, who would have been relatively unherladed beforehand, gave All Star performances over the 2 games, and I'd pick either of them for Young Player of the Year (I'm assuming they are young enough, but I don't know)
Congrats to Dublin, better team won.
I haven't read back through everything here just yet but wanted to make
One point on the Hennelly thing. There is absolutely no way on earth the O'Sheas had anything to do with Hennelly being brought back in. This shite being spouted annoys me. Imagine the world where AOS went to Rochford and said that. Then answer these questions:
- why would Clarke stay on the panel?
- Why would Rochford not tell them to f**k off?
- Why would the O'Sheas not insist on COS starting?
- what would the rest of the panel say?
- how does a team that is that disfunctional go that far?
Such absolute and utter shite, it's been going on all year and coming from Roscommon. Mayo lads if anyone does say it to you ask them the questions above. Anyone ever involved in a team knows that it couldn't be true
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 05, 2016, 07:42:44 PM
Congrats to Dublin, better team won.
I haven't read back through everything here just yet but wanted to make
One point on the Hennelly thing. There is absolutely no way on earth the O'Sheas had anything to do with Hennelly being brought back in. This shite being spouted annoys me. Imagine the world where AOS went to Rochford and said that. Then answer these questions:
- why would Clarke stay on the panel?
- Why would Rochford not tell them to f**k off?
- Why would the O'Sheas not insist on COS starting?
- what would the rest of the panel say?
- how does a team that is that disfunctional go that far?
Such absolute and utter shite, it's been going on all year and coming from Roscommon. Mayo lads if anyone does say it to you ask them the questions above. Anyone ever involved in a team knows that it couldn't be true
Agreed.
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
The media and Mayo supporters appear to have castigated Rochford to such an extent that his position may become impossible moving forward. It comes back to that old mantra of the need to look for a scapegoat. Ultimately Mayo lead for about 5/6 minutes of the 160 over the 2 matches and were beaten by a better side however marginal. A former Mayo goalkeeper gave a very good interview about this today and it should be heeded. Far too many idiots out there who think they know better.
On Dublin, I think the manner in which they struggled to overcome Mayo has dampened people's willingness to label them as a great side. I'd prefer to give Mayo some credit as they are one of the best sides never to win an AI title. Consider this. But for a Donegal ambush in 2014 we would be looking at a 4 in a row side in both League and championship in an era when the demands make it very difficult to keep coming back year on year. They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
No-one in Mayo wants Rochford to go anywhere. Trust me.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on October 05, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
The media and Mayo supporters appear to have castigated Rochford to such an extent that his position may become impossible moving forward. It comes back to that old mantra of the need to look for a scapegoat. Ultimately Mayo lead for about 5/6 minutes of the 160 over the 2 matches and were beaten by a better side however marginal. A former Mayo goalkeeper gave a very good interview about this today and it should be heeded. Far too many idiots out there who think they know better.
On Dublin, I think the manner in which they struggled to overcome Mayo has dampened people's willingness to label them as a great side. I'd prefer to give Mayo some credit as they are one of the best sides never to win an AI title. Consider this. But for a Donegal ambush in 2014 we would be looking at a 4 in a row side in both League and championship in an era when the demands make it very difficult to keep coming back year on year. They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
No-one in Mayo wants Rochford to go anywhere. Trust me.
True and the bit in bold a complete exaggeration of how things are in reality.
All rossies and people including some of our own wonder why some of us dislike them so much. Youd have to feel for the decent ones.
Quote from: PW Nally on October 05, 2016, 08:20:29 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on October 05, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 05, 2016, 12:53:57 AM
The media and Mayo supporters appear to have castigated Rochford to such an extent that his position may become impossible moving forward. It comes back to that old mantra of the need to look for a scapegoat. Ultimately Mayo lead for about 5/6 minutes of the 160 over the 2 matches and were beaten by a better side however marginal. A former Mayo goalkeeper gave a very good interview about this today and it should be heeded. Far too many idiots out there who think they know better.
On Dublin, I think the manner in which they struggled to overcome Mayo has dampened people's willingness to label them as a great side. I'd prefer to give Mayo some credit as they are one of the best sides never to win an AI title. Consider this. But for a Donegal ambush in 2014 we would be looking at a 4 in a row side in both League and championship in an era when the demands make it very difficult to keep coming back year on year. They are also on a 29 match unbeaten run. I think that definitely elevates them above any side since the Kerry golden era whatever about anything else.
No-one in Mayo wants Rochford to go anywhere. Trust me.
True and the bit in bold a complete exaggeration of how things are in reality.
I haven't come across a single statement by any reporter, pundit or whatever you're having yerself, that implies that Mayo supporters are demanding that Rochford be booted out.
Never heard it once and the same goes for Robbie Hennelly.
Everyone I've spoken to feels sorry for the lad and wish him well.
And while I am at it, nobody to date has said to me that Clarkie should retire from the panel either.
In Mayo, we handle things our own way and there's nothing here for media heads to get excited about.
Mayo hasn't gone away ya know!
We'll be back and any problems we may have, will be sorted in-house; no need for any outsider to be wetting himself with excitement.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 05, 2016, 07:42:44 PM
Congrats to Dublin, better team won.
I haven't read back through everything here just yet but wanted to make
One point on the Hennelly thing. There is absolutely no way on earth the O'Sheas had anything to do with Hennelly being brought back in. This shite being spouted annoys me. Imagine the world where AOS went to Rochford and said that. Then answer these questions:
- why would Clarke stay on the panel?
- Why would Rochford not tell them to f**k off?
- Why would the O'Sheas not insist on COS starting?
- what would the rest of the panel say?
- how does a team that is that disfunctional go that far?
Such absolute and utter shite, it's been going on all year and coming from Roscommon. Mayo lads if anyone does say it to you ask them the questions above. Anyone ever involved in a team knows that it couldn't be true
Very true.The game was just over on Sat. when some one mentioned to me that the O Sheas had gotten Hennelly on the team and I live in New York.Alot of fans just never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Quote from: maigheo on October 05, 2016, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 05, 2016, 07:42:44 PM
Congrats to Dublin, better team won.
I haven't read back through everything here just yet but wanted to make
One point on the Hennelly thing. There is absolutely no way on earth the O'Sheas had anything to do with Hennelly being brought back in. This shite being spouted annoys me. Imagine the world where AOS went to Rochford and said that. Then answer these questions:
- why would Clarke stay on the panel?
- Why would Rochford not tell them to f**k off?
- Why would the O'Sheas not insist on COS starting?
- what would the rest of the panel say?
- how does a team that is that disfunctional go that far?
Such absolute and utter shite, it's been going on all year and coming from Roscommon. Mayo lads if anyone does say it to you ask them the questions above. Anyone ever involved in a team knows that it couldn't be true
Very true.The game was just over on Sat. when some one mentioned to me that the O Sheas had gotten Hennelly on the team and I live in New York.Alot of fans just never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
It just means when people are searching for someone to blame, they start by looking in their prejudices.
Quote
I haven't come across a single statement by any reporter, pundit or whatever you're having yerself, that implies that Mayo supporters are demanding that Rochford be booted out.
Indeed no .... but by God theres plenty of sh*te talking along the lines of "what the fcuk was he thinking the fecin' idjiot.... he cost us the All-Ireland"
Brain dead crap
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:39:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
It's not cliches. How many points did your starting forwards score last Sunday. leave the first day out of it.
Dublin were poor the first day. Last sunday dublin played well. that's the real test.
;D ;D
I shouldn't reply to a troll but out of respect for your cache of celtic crosses...
3. Compared to 4 for Dublin, three of which came in the first 10 mins, 2 directly from poor Mayo kickouts.
But you're right, natural forwards, blah blah blah. Rochford will surely have spies down in PP to see what kind of magic fairy dust ye're sprinkling on ye're free scoring forwards.
Only the ignorant would fail to notice the brilliance of our individual forwards since 2011.
And you my dear sir are completely ignorant. Not one of your forwards would start for us.
Ponder on that me ould mucker
Quote from: INDIANA on October 05, 2016, 11:07:49 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:39:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2016, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
Congrats to the Dubs, they beat Donegal, Kerry & Mayo to win this so nobody can say it was a soft one for them.
From our point of view, the goalkeeping change was madness, there are a lot of things you can't control in sport but this was one we could have. I feel sorry for Hennelly, he must be in a bad way for the last few days.
On the ref, he bottled the two Small decisions; in particular the black card which was stonewall. The Keegan decision was very poor also, he allowed himself to be influenced on that, it was a foul and nothing more (as an aside, despite this, Connolly had very little influence on the game for a player of his quality). The Cooper decision was harsh but correct by the letter of the law. McLoughlin should have been a black too. Both Connolly & Vaughan should have been black also by the letter of the law (one for a 3rd man tackle, the other for a deliberate hand trip). McCarthy should have seen yellow for a dangerous tackle on Vaughan, I guess Dublin felt they had been bullied the first day and he was laying down a marker there. As I said, these decisions were out of our control, there were other things within our control that would have resulted in us winning if we had done better on them.
Hard to fault the effort of any of our players over the two games; in the replay, I thought our back 8 were excellent - Harrison & Durcan in particular. Up front, all tried hard but against a backline like that, it's hard to get much change. A lot of the chat has been about how we need to find 1-2 "natural forwards" but the fact is, across the two games, the starting 6 forwards on both teams had the following returns from play:
Andy - 3 pts in 2 games
COC - 2 pts in 2 games
DOC - 1 pt in 2 games
Doc - 1 pt in 2 games
McLoughlin - 1 pt in 2 games
AOS - 0 pts in 2 games
Rock - 3 pts in 2 games
Connolly - 2 pts in 2 games
McManamon - 1 pt in 2 games
KK - 0pts in 2 games
Brogan - 0 pts in 1 game
Andrews - 0 pts in 1 game (didn't start the first game but came on very early so could call this 2 pts in 2 games)
Mannion - 0 pts in 1 game
Flynn - 0 pts in 1 game (started 2nd game @ mf)
It makes for pretty grim reading for anyone looking for free-scoring football but with the numbers of players teams get back these days and the low-risk football teams like to play, it's practically impossible for players to even get a shot off.
Now if Mayo had McBrearty and Quinlivan in our FF line, we'd probably have bagged another couple of scores and won the AI but for me, that's not where we lost this one. Could we do with another top-quality forward or two? Absolutely, but you only have to look at the stats above to see the quality of forward you need to even get a couple of points in a game like this. Easy to throw out the lazy cliches though about forwards, etc.
I think the fact that we had used up 3 subs on enforced changes by the 40th minute really affected us down the home straight in terms of legs. In the last 5 minutes of normal time, we weren't getting the numbers up in support because players weren't simply able to at that stage. Dublin on the other hand had two former POTYs to bring on and that was the difference, MDMAs running in particular.
Well done Dublin, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to take ye're crown next year.
It's not cliches. How many points did your starting forwards score last Sunday. leave the first day out of it.
Dublin were poor the first day. Last sunday dublin played well. that's the real test.
;D ;D
I shouldn't reply to a troll but out of respect for your cache of celtic crosses...
3. Compared to 4 for Dublin, three of which came in the first 10 mins, 2 directly from poor Mayo kickouts.
But you're right, natural forwards, blah blah blah. Rochford will surely have spies down in PP to see what kind of magic fairy dust ye're sprinkling on ye're free scoring forwards.
Only the ignorant would fail to notice the brilliance of our individual forwards since 2011.
And you my dear sir are completely ignorant. Not one of your forwards would start for us.
Ponder on that me ould mucker
Only one of you coming across as ignorant.
Hardly worth macdanger2 trying to look at things objectively when the likes of you comes out with that classless shite.
Indiana reminds me of the sh8te talk you would hear in the playground.
Quote from: blast05 on October 05, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
Quote
I haven't come across a single statement by any reporter, pundit or whatever you're having yerself, that implies that Mayo supporters are demanding that Rochford be booted out.
Indeed no .... but by God theres plenty of sh*te talking along the lines of "what the fcuk was he thinking the fecin' idjiot.... he cost us the All-Ireland"
Brain dead crap
Like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XUcJvqv8YA
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Indiana reminds me of the sh8te talk you would hear in the playground.
Always reminds me of this show I used to watch growing up
(http://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/eerie_indiana_650x300_a01_1.jpg)]
Quote from: blast05 on October 05, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
Quote
I haven't come across a single statement by any reporter, pundit or whatever you're having yerself, that implies that Mayo supporters are demanding that Rochford be booted out.
Indeed no .... but by God theres plenty of sh*te talking along the lines of "what the fcuk was he thinking the fecin' idjiot.... he cost us the All-Ireland"
Brain dead crap
Like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XUcJvqv8YA
Whats worrying is the amount of people from Mayo who actually believe Hennelly was picked because of the O'Shea's. Rochford has got so much right since the defeat to Galway and even if Mayo had started with Clarke I'm far from convinced Mayo would have won. If only Rochford had got the job a year earlier things may have been very different.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 11:16:03 AM
Whats worrying is the amount of people from Mayo who actually believe Hennelly was picked because of the O'Shea's. Rochford has got so much right since the defeat to Galway and even if Mayo had started with Clarke I'm far from convinced Mayo would have won. If only Rochford had got the job a year earlier things may have been very different.
Indeed. That O'Shea shite has my blood boiling. Rochford tool gambles all year. The goalie one was too big a gamble given Hennelly's propensity to make at least one c**k up in a big game.
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
The difference is Dublin don't do errors that lead to goals in big games and don't leak too many goals. They have made errors though in lesser games.
Mayo lost by a point over 160 minutes of football, could have gone either way, fair play to them and guaranteed to get back to the final next year.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 11:49:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
The difference is Dublin don't do errors that lead to goals in big games and don't leak too many goals. They have made errors though in lesser games.
Mayo lost by a point over 160 minutes of football, good have gone either way, fair play to them and guaranteed to get back to the final next year.
They are guaranteed nothing!
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 11:49:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
The difference is Dublin don't do errors that lead to goals in big games and don't leak too many goals. They have made errors though in lesser games.
Mayo lost by a point over 160 minutes of football, could have gone either way, fair play to them and guaranteed to get back to the final next year.
Dunno about that ;
Dublin error lead to a soft goal that gave an average Donegal team a punchers chance.
Dublin error lead to 2 Kerry goals in semi giving an average Kerry team a real chance they were not good enough to take .
Costello and Bernard brogan are better than any of the Mayo inside forwards .
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
I think I know what you mean, but most Gaa supporters wouldn't really want to 'swap' their players with another county. Also, I reckon both panels have about forward 4 All-Stars, which considering Dublin's 3 All-Ireland wins (not counting this year as the All-Stars haven't been awarded) is remarkably even.
Regarding goalkeepers, Cluxton has made many mistakes on the big stage. We seem to watch these mistakes and get nothing out of them. Our mistakes seem be clinically punished, with the exception of a couple of Clarke errors in the drawn game.
After being at the Semi Final and Final
Kerry forwards were better than Mayo's
Kerry fans were sick after the game, because they felt their forwards would have done the job in the final
Quote from: Kurtz on October 06, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
After being at the Semi Final and Final
Kerry forwards were better than Mayo's
Kerry fans were sick after the game, because they felt their forwards would have done the job in the final
This will obviously come as a surprise to you, but Kerry's forwards wouldn't be marking Mayo's forwards.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 11:49:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
The difference is Dublin don't do errors that lead to goals in big games and don't leak too many goals. They have made errors though in lesser games.
Mayo lost by a point over 160 minutes of football, could have gone either way, fair play to them and guaranteed to get back to the final next year.
That's a lofty claim. For a start assuming they both win their respective provinces (big assumption) then they'd have Kerry in the semi. Are the "guaranteed" to win that. Absolutely not.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: Kurtz on October 06, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
After being at the Semi Final and Final
Kerry forwards were better than Mayo's
Kerry fans were sick after the game, because they felt their forwards would have done the job in the final
This will obviously come as a surprise to you, but Kerry's forwards wouldn't be marking Mayo's forwards.
You cant fix stupid
Its forever
Quote from: Kurtz on October 06, 2016, 01:50:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: Kurtz on October 06, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
After being at the Semi Final and Final
Kerry forwards were better than Mayo's
Kerry fans were sick after the game, because they felt their forwards would have done the job in the final
This will obviously come as a surprise to you, but Kerry's forwards wouldn't be marking Mayo's forwards.
You cant fix stupid
Its forever
Yet you manage to get your thoughts onto the internet. Well done.
Quote from: straightred on October 06, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 11:49:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
The difference is Dublin don't do errors that lead to goals in big games and don't leak too many goals. They have made errors though in lesser games.
Mayo lost by a point over 160 minutes of football, could have gone either way, fair play to them and guaranteed to get back to the final next year.
That's a lofty claim. For a start assuming they both win their respective provinces (big assumption) then they'd have Kerry in the semi. Are the "guaranteed" to win that. Absolutely not.
Yes no guarantee. Kerry haven't lost to Mayo in the championship for 20 years and then the 2018 semi will possibly be v Dublin so in theory it could be 2019 before Mayo reach the AI final again.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
I think I know what you mean, but most Gaa supporters wouldn't really want to 'swap' their players with another county. Also, I reckon both panels have about forward 4 All-Stars, which considering Dublin's 3 All-Ireland wins (not counting this year as the All-Stars haven't been awarded) is remarkably even.
Regarding goalkeepers, Cluxton has made many mistakes on the big stage. We seem to watch these mistakes and get nothing out of them. Our mistakes seem be clinically punished, with the exception of a couple of Clarke errors in the drawn game.
I don't see how you can claim Mayo have 4 all star caliber forwards. Their best forward this year was 33yr old Andy Moran. Rochford tried to ease him out of the team, realised he was the best forward he had and restored him to the team.
In a simple comparison none of the Mayo forwards would be first choice for Dublin where as the likes of Costello, Andrews and Mannion who struggled to get into the Dublin team would be first choice for Mayo.
Quote from: dublin7 on October 06, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
I think I know what you mean, but most Gaa supporters wouldn't really want to 'swap' their players with another county. Also, I reckon both panels have about forward 4 All-Stars, which considering Dublin's 3 All-Ireland wins (not counting this year as the All-Stars haven't been awarded) is remarkably even.
Regarding goalkeepers, Cluxton has made many mistakes on the big stage. We seem to watch these mistakes and get nothing out of them. Our mistakes seem be clinically punished, with the exception of a couple of Clarke errors in the drawn game.
I don't see how you can claim Mayo have 4 all star caliber forwards. Their best forward this year was 33yr old Andy Moran. Rochford tried to ease him out of the team, realised he was the best forward he had and restored him to the team.
In a simple comparison none of the Mayo forwards would be first choice for Dublin where as the likes of Costello, Andrews and Mannion who struggled to get into the Dublin team would be first choice for Mayo.
I didn't.
I said '4 All-Star Forwards'.
Alan Dillon, Andy Moran, Aiden O'Shea (1 as a forward) and Cillian O'Connor.
This Dublin panel has 4 All-Star Forwards.
Bernard Brogan, Ciaran Kilkenny, Diarmuid Connelly and Paul Flynn.
The rest of your post is simply insulting and not worth commenting on.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on October 06, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
I think I know what you mean, but most Gaa supporters wouldn't really want to 'swap' their players with another county. Also, I reckon both panels have about forward 4 All-Stars, which considering Dublin's 3 All-Ireland wins (not counting this year as the All-Stars haven't been awarded) is remarkably even.
Regarding goalkeepers, Cluxton has made many mistakes on the big stage. We seem to watch these mistakes and get nothing out of them. Our mistakes seem be clinically punished, with the exception of a couple of Clarke errors in the drawn game.
I don't see how you can claim Mayo have 4 all star caliber forwards. Their best forward this year was 33yr old Andy Moran. Rochford tried to ease him out of the team, realised he was the best forward he had and restored him to the team.
In a simple comparison none of the Mayo forwards would be first choice for Dublin where as the likes of Costello, Andrews and Mannion who struggled to get into the Dublin team would be first choice for Mayo.
I didn't.
I said '4 All-Star Forwards'.
Alan Dillon, Andy Moran, Aiden O'Shea (1 as a forward) and Cillian O'Connor.
This Dublin panel has 4 All-Star Forwards.
Bernard Brogan, Ciaran Kilkenny, Diarmuid Connelly and Paul Flynn.
The rest of your post is simply insulting and not worth commenting on.
May have 4 All Star forwards. You should be in politics. Alan Dillon is about 33/34 & won his all star in 2012. That's like the dubs picking Ciaran Whelan for the all ireland replay and claiming he is an all star midfielder.
Ridiculous comparisons to make against the likes of Kilkenny/Connolly
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
For all the talk about the forwards and ability to score, here's a few stats.
In Mayo's four All-Ireland finals since 2012 inclusive, they've got a total of 58 scores to their opponents' combined 54.
In their six championship matches against Dublin since 2012 inclusive, Mayo have got 95 scores to Dublin's 89.
The clear difference is goals.
Dublin have got 10 goals over the course of those 6 games, Mayo have got 4, and never more than 1 in any single game.
Of those 10 Dublin goals:
2 were own goals
2 were penalties (one wrongly awarded - the one in the 2015 drawn game as the foul was outside the penalty area, the other a result of a catastrophic goalkeeping error)
2 clear goalkeeping errors (Brogan 2013, McMahon 2015 replay)
4 others
I'll be surprised if you can find a Mayo man who wouldn't swap their 10 or so forwards on their panel for their Dublin counterparts.
Dublin are considerably better in that department.
I think I know what you mean, but most Gaa supporters wouldn't really want to 'swap' their players with another county. Also, I reckon both panels have about forward 4 All-Stars, which considering Dublin's 3 All-Ireland wins (not counting this year as the All-Stars haven't been awarded) is remarkably even.
Regarding goalkeepers, Cluxton has made many mistakes on the big stage. We seem to watch these mistakes and get nothing out of them. Our mistakes seem be clinically punished, with the exception of a couple of Clarke errors in the drawn game.
It maybe evenish in terms of All Stars but the Dubs have more quality and certainly more options and variety to their attack.
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
Aidan O'Shea is a top class forward when he isn't playing against Dublin. Had an outside chance for POTY until the 2 final matches (obviously needed a big final to win it). In 4 matches against the Dubs both this year and last however he just hasn't produced the goods. I'd still have him as Mayo's most dangerous forward but he needs quick early ball with a chance to get a run on his opponent. A bit like Keegan with Connolly, McMahon is also turning into a bit of a nemesis for O'Shea.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
Hence why I said the 10 or so forwards on the panel, Mayo only have a few players of the calibre of COC whereas the Dubs have several more.
In the 3 finals where Mayo have been beaten in 12, 13 & 16 their forwards have a joint total of 9 points from play. That was the one off from the Dubs whereas the Mayo forwards have consistently not delivered in finals.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
Aidan O'Shea scored 1.04 this year in 9 matches which for one of our top forwards in the country is very poor in my opinion. Saying that though I noticed Sean Cavanagh also only scored 7 points this year in 5 matches.
Everyone is singing Brian Fenton's praises but he has only managed 3 points in 7 games whereas Kilkenny managed 5 points all year.
I thought AoS played well against Tyrone but besides that I didn't think he stood out in any of the other games.
I think he would have done better from MF in the final. It is no coincidence that Ryan McHugh and Peter Harte kick a lot of scores whilst being named at wing back. If Mayo could release Keegan more like they did for his goal they would get a lot more scores I believe.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
What is usually missing, is proper analysis. Usually it is' a lack of bottle' that is thrown at us, as a lazy stereotype. In fairness you ruled that out. Think Joe Brolly and his 'lazy celebrity' crap.
Regarding the Dubs, Paul Flynn and BB have been two of the best forwards of their respective types, that I have seen. But I wouldn't take them now. Mannion (24) and Costello (22) look good prospects, but do we throw away Diarmuid O'Connor (21), Evan Regan (23) and Conor Loftus (21) for them? I'd say neutrals wouldn't be sure about that, never mind Mayo fans.
Anyone would take Connolly, but not with his form against us. Kilkenny would obviously be very desirable, but would we swap AOS? McLoughlin is a big favourite with Mayo fans (I don't like seeing him as a sweeper) but I can't see Mayo fans willing to trade him either.
After 160 mins there was no more than a kick of a ball, a player's mistake or a referee's decision in it, depending on who you listen to. What wasn't the difference (read the thread above), imho, was that one set of forwards were world class, while the others set should be scrapped. Of course Mayo fans will be defensive when we read that sort of lazy analysis.
I think you're over reacting. Or at least that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there some spark missing up there, and it might be individual players, or it might be a pattern of play. To be honest, given how close ye are, it might actually be the latter. For example, throwing Aidan O'Shea in at full forward the last couple of years, and then patently having no clue how to use him was very frustrating as a neutral looking in. I can't imagine how Mayo lads looked at it. Same with Barry Moran this year. But even if you accept that is plan 'B', and may not be slick, to my mind even Plan A looks laboured. If ye could speed up your attacks, and get lads like O'Connor on the ball in good shooting areas more often, then that would probably do it. Alternatively, if ye replace Evan Regan, or Conor Loftus, with James O'Donoghue, Paul Geaney, or even someone like Paddy Andrews, I think that would push ye over the edge even with the more deliberate build up play.
Ye have to play with the resources ye have, and to my mind that means ye have to just improve your transition game slightly. You need movement, you need pace, and you need direct running and/or kick passing. If you have that, then the forwards you have look better. If you don't have that, then you need more top class forwards to compensate.
It's figuratively a matter of inches with Mayo, and this is where the shortfall is, in my opinion. Everything else is spot on, even allowing for human error.
I think you're correct on the piece about the build up play - both team in the final were laboured getting into scoring positions. Once the ball is recycled and slowed down, only the very best forwards can dig out a shot against top backs - Connolly, Geaney and maybe one or two others. If you speed up the build up, it makes it easier to score since you have more space, that's probably what Mayo need to work on rather than hoping to turn up a superstar from somewhere
My post wasn't meant to be seen as disagreeing with you Az, it was more taking on a serious of points made from different posters.
I would agree with you overall though. We sacrifice a lot by putting Keegan man to man and by keeping McLoughlin and also Higgins in defence. Our running game is as good as there is, and I think the various blankets would have to push up to meet Keegan, Durcan, Vaughan and Higgins if we were launching them enough. This would leave space elsewhere behind. The key to this is balance and key players knowing when to carry and when to play it inside accurately.
I actually think we gave to Dubs too much respect at times.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
What is usually missing, is proper analysis. Usually it is' a lack of bottle' that is thrown at us, as a lazy stereotype. In fairness you ruled that out. Think Joe Brolly and his 'lazy celebrity' crap.
Regarding the Dubs, Paul Flynn and BB have been two of the best forwards of their respective types, that I have seen. But I wouldn't take them now. Mannion (24) and Costello (22) look good prospects, but do we throw away Diarmuid O'Connor (21), Evan Regan (23) and Conor Loftus (21) for them? I'd say neutrals wouldn't be sure about that, never mind Mayo fans.
Anyone would take Connolly, but not with his form against us. Kilkenny would obviously be very desirable, but would we swap AOS? McLoughlin is a big favourite with Mayo fans (I don't like seeing him as a sweeper) but I can't see Mayo fans willing to trade him either.
After 160 mins there was no more than a kick of a ball, a player's mistake or a referee's decision in it, depending on who you listen to. What wasn't the difference (read the thread above), imho, was that one set of forwards were world class, while the others set should be scrapped. Of course Mayo fans will be defensive when we read that sort of lazy analysis.
I'd take Mannion & Costello every day of the week.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 06, 2016, 06:25:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
What is usually missing, is proper analysis. Usually it is' a lack of bottle' that is thrown at us, as a lazy stereotype. In fairness you ruled that out. Think Joe Brolly and his 'lazy celebrity' crap.
Regarding the Dubs, Paul Flynn and BB have been two of the best forwards of their respective types, that I have seen. But I wouldn't take them now. Mannion (24) and Costello (22) look good prospects, but do we throw away Diarmuid O'Connor (21), Evan Regan (23) and Conor Loftus (21) for them? I'd say neutrals wouldn't be sure about that, never mind Mayo fans.
Anyone would take Connolly, but not with his form against us. Kilkenny would obviously be very desirable, but would we swap AOS? McLoughlin is a big favourite with Mayo fans (I don't like seeing him as a sweeper) but I can't see Mayo fans willing to trade him either.
After 160 mins there was no more than a kick of a ball, a player's mistake or a referee's decision in it, depending on who you listen to. What wasn't the difference (read the thread above), imho, was that one set of forwards were world class, while the others set should be scrapped. Of course Mayo fans will be defensive when we read that sort of lazy analysis.
I'd take Mannion & Costello every day of the week.
The way things are these days, ye'd probably have a look at Elvis Costello and Theresa Mannion I'd say
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 06, 2016, 04:59:14 PM
Aidan O'Shea scored 1.04 this year in 9 matches which for one of our top forwards in the country is very poor in my opinion. Saying that though I noticed Sean Cavanagh also only scored 7 points this year in 5 matches.
Everyone is singing Brian Fenton's praises but he has only managed 3 points in 7 games whereas Kilkenny managed 5 points all year.
I thought AoS played well against Tyrone but besides that I didn't think he stood out in any of the other games.
I think he would have done better from MF in the final. It is no coincidence that Ryan McHugh and Peter Harte kick a lot of scores whilst being named at wing back. If Mayo could release Keegan more like they did for his goal they would get a lot more scores I believe.
AOS is a below average forward. He's a quaility midfielder, though. Never has had much touch for scoring so you've not been watching him much if you think that total is anything out of the ordinary for him.
I think the issue with Mayo's forwards is not so much with the starting forwards, but with the quality of the forwards that they can bring on.
Dillion, and Barry Moran were the only two forward subs used by Mayo last saturday. I don't think barry moran is good enough as a forward and Dillons best days are behind him. They didn't score after they came on.
By comparison, Dublin only used two forward subs as well - Brogan and Costello. And While Brogan didn't do a whole pile he still scored 0-1 and costello added 0-3.
0-4 is a great return from a couple of forward subs, but I don't think Mayo subs would ever contribute that.
IMO, that's why Mayo need a couple of additional forwards, not necessarily to replace current starting forwards, but to ensure that mayo have about 8 forwards of similar standard. At the moment there is too much of a drop off in standard when Mayo bring on forward subs.
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee Keegan, 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee Keegan, 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
I don't disagree with that.
My point was that the forward options off the bench that Mayo have aren't good enough IMO. That's why I believe Mayo need another forward or two.
I actually don't think they need 'a top class forward' but I do think they need two more good forwards to improve the bench.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 06, 2016, 06:25:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
What is usually missing, is proper analysis. Usually it is' a lack of bottle' that is thrown at us, as a lazy stereotype. In fairness you ruled that out. Think Joe Brolly and his 'lazy celebrity' crap.
Regarding the Dubs, Paul Flynn and BB have been two of the best forwards of their respective types, that I have seen. But I wouldn't take them now. Mannion (24) and Costello (22) look good prospects, but do we throw away Diarmuid O'Connor (21), Evan Regan (23) and Conor Loftus (21) for them? I'd say neutrals wouldn't be sure about that, never mind Mayo fans.
Anyone would take Connolly, but not with his form against us. Kilkenny would obviously be very desirable, but would we swap AOS? McLoughlin is a big favourite with Mayo fans (I don't like seeing him as a sweeper) but I can't see Mayo fans willing to trade him either.
After 160 mins there was no more than a kick of a ball, a player's mistake or a referee's decision in it, depending on who you listen to. What wasn't the difference (read the thread above), imho, was that one set of forwards were world class, while the others set should be scrapped. Of course Mayo fans will be defensive when we read that sort of lazy analysis.
I'd take Mannion & Costello every day of the week.
Same here, this is a ridiculous argument. I remember a Mayo fan at the start of the summer raving about this guy Regan, he was sensational against Down in the league etc. etc. I laughed & said let's see what he does come August/September. If they were so good why didn't they play in the 2 finals? DOC was rubbish too - and if he was injured then he shouldn't have been playing & some of these other "star" forwards should have played instead
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee Keegan, 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
WTF?
Quote from: westbound on October 07, 2016, 04:43:28 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee Keegan, 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
I don't disagree with that.
My point was that the forward options off the bench that Mayo have aren't good enough IMO. That's why I believe Mayo need another forward or two.
I actually don't think they need 'a top class forward' but I do think they need two more good forwards to improve the bench.
I'd largely agree with that. If we hadn't used up our subs, you'd probably have seen Regan on too. Impossible to know how he would have fared though. On a general note, hopefully himself and Loftus will improve next year having had a full season with the squad now
Quote from: sambostar on October 07, 2016, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 06, 2016, 06:25:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
MM do you really think many Mayo supporters would swap 26 year old Dean Rock for 24 year old Cillian?
If we had 6 forwards who were kept scoreless from play for as long as the Dubs were we would be ridiculed from all quarters. But when the reverse occurs we are told to dump our lot and import the Dubs?
I think it's certainly true that Mayo get undue criticism from people about their forwards, however it is also true, in my opinion, that Mayo people have a very defensive attitude to criticism of the forwards, and maybe more pertinently their forward play in general. There is absolutely a lack of top quality, either individually or as a collective, in the forwards and that is what has, in my opinion, stopped them from taking that final step. Cillian O'Connor is a fine player, but if Paul Geaney was born in Mayo rather than Kerry, Mayo would probably have won by now. Or James O'Donoghue, or maybe even Michael Quinlivan or young Comer from Galway.
It's certainly not bottle, or fitness, or even defensive tactics that are causing them to lose, I think it's just that small bit of extra quality which is missing.
What is usually missing, is proper analysis. Usually it is' a lack of bottle' that is thrown at us, as a lazy stereotype. In fairness you ruled that out. Think Joe Brolly and his 'lazy celebrity' crap.
Regarding the Dubs, Paul Flynn and BB have been two of the best forwards of their respective types, that I have seen. But I wouldn't take them now. Mannion (24) and Costello (22) look good prospects, but do we throw away Diarmuid O'Connor (21), Evan Regan (23) and Conor Loftus (21) for them? I'd say neutrals wouldn't be sure about that, never mind Mayo fans.
Anyone would take Connolly, but not with his form against us. Kilkenny would obviously be very desirable, but would we swap AOS? McLoughlin is a big favourite with Mayo fans (I don't like seeing him as a sweeper) but I can't see Mayo fans willing to trade him either.
After 160 mins there was no more than a kick of a ball, a player's mistake or a referee's decision in it, depending on who you listen to. What wasn't the difference (read the thread above), imho, was that one set of forwards were world class, while the others set should be scrapped. Of course Mayo fans will be defensive when we read that sort of lazy analysis.
I'd take Mannion & Costello every day of the week.
Same here, this is a ridiculous argument. I remember a Mayo fan at the start of the summer raving about this guy Regan, he was sensational against Down in the league etc. etc. I laughed & said let's see what he does come August/September. If they were so good why didn't they play in the 2 finals? DOC was rubbish too - and if he was injured then he shouldn't have been playing & some of these other "star" forwards should have played instead
Show me where anyone called them "star" forwards. Or do you just make stuff up?
I called them 'good prospects'. DOC played in both Finals, more time than Mannion. Regan and Costello played in one and Loftus made no appearance. But he is U-21 so we will probably give him a chance.
Pretty sure DOC outscored Mannion the last day :o
Mannion was lost out in the half forwards and is very one footed, Costello is very much different in this regard.
Also Mayo losing a player to a head butt?? I love this site and have enjoyed reading for many years but this is Mayo Blog stuff.
Quote from: Buttofthehill on October 07, 2016, 06:32:43 PM
Mannion was lost out in the half forwards and is very one footed, Costello is very much different in this regard.
Also Mayo losing a player to a head butt?? I love this site and have enjoyed reading for many years but this is Mayo Blog stuff.
Mannion started the 2013 Final IIRC but was taken off early for O'Gara.
Pulled his hammer but he wasn't great that day alright
Quote from: Buttofthehill on October 07, 2016, 08:05:56 PM
Pulled his hammer but he wasn't great that day alright
Started in the corner. I reckon he was only around 21?
Also James O'Donohoe was mentioned earlier as a top forward. He certainly was in 2014. I think he was injured in 2015. But this year I was told he didn't get his place as he was out of form, which seems amazing.
True,I think he hasn't recovered from that shoulder injury. For me, I remember him in the semi v Dublin in 2013 and he tore them apart in the first half.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 07, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee Keegan, 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
WTF?
Yeah. Who head butted him?
On Mayo's forwards
Diarmuid O'Connor - a top class player, great engine and can take a score. Seemed to be off the pace after an injury this year
Aidan O'Shea - an enigma, looks the real deal against the cannon fodder but he has had big problems stepping it up in big games
McLoughlin - A workhorse
Doherty - A workhorse
Moran - Probably paying the best football of his career, clever player, strong and is the one Mayo forward who looks comfortable kicking off either foot. He doesn't have 70 minutes in his locker though.
Cillian O'Connor - Good free taker but the rest of his game is not that of a top forward. He doesn't want the ball, he can't kick off his left foot and he has no pace.
The problem is they don't have enough natural scorers in there, plenty of physical lads who will give you there all but when it comes to the two inside guys you have Cillian O'Connor, who to me, is carried for his frees (this in itself probably justifies itself and he is worth a few points in that regard) but his all round game leaves an awful lot to be desired. Teams usually leave their weakest man marker on O'Connor which will tell you all you need to know, he has no pace, no left foot and he doesn't look to be the outball inside as he knows his limitations. Rarely does O'Connor do what Moran does for instance, win the first ball put into him generate the space and put it over the bar. O'Connor is all about feeding off of that on the loop. He needs to be more authoritative in that regard, demand those first balls. He got 9 points from play this year in 8 games - that is just not good enough.
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 07, 2016, 09:44:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 07, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee , 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
WTF?
Yeah. Who head butted him?
Allegedly, according to those over on the blog it was a corner back from Ballymun kick hams
Quote from: maigheo on October 08, 2016, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 07, 2016, 09:44:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 07, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee , 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
WTF?
Yeah. Who head butted him?
Allegedly, according to those over on the blog it was a corner back from Ballymun kick hams
Willie Joe and company have never been known for their objectivity.
Quote from: Syferus on October 08, 2016, 01:10:29 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 08, 2016, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 07, 2016, 09:44:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 07, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 07, 2016, 03:18:00 PM
The only 2 forward subs because 3 substitutions were forced on us, 1 Lee , 2 Donal Vaughan and 3 Rob Hennelly. None of those substitutions would have been in the plan. That gives you little room to manoeuvre, who knows what our forwards subs plan actually was.
We also had Tom Parson off the field for a good while getting stitches from a head butt which mean that threw our plans awry also
WTF?
Yeah. Who head butted him?
Allegedly, according to those over on the blog it was a corner back from Ballymun kick hams
Willie Joe and company have never been known for their objectivity.
Corner back tangles with Mayo midfielder and nett result a whole pile of stitches needed for Mayo midfielder. I haven't seen any video evidence to show what actually happened but reasonable to assume it wasn't self-inflicted! At this stage it doesn't matter, move on - closure - but no more than Lees black card, there would have been some crack if roles were reversed
Lots of whinging being done, Brolly's article should have been about the fans. Time to move on I think.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html)
The very last sentence it captures it perfectly re Mayo fans
The only place i have seen anger and frustration from Mayo fans is on this forum .... in response to arrogant, ungracious and ignorant Dublin posts
Quote from: blast05 on October 10, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html)
The very last sentence it captures it perfectly re Mayo fans
The only place i have seen anger and frustration from Mayo fans is on this forum .... in response to arrogant, ungracious and ignorant Dublin posts
Dublin fans aren't the ones targeting their own players online. They need to look at themselves for a change and stop blaming other external factors.
Quote from: blast05 on October 10, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html)
The very last sentence it captures it perfectly re Mayo fans
The only place i have seen anger and frustration from Mayo fans is on this forum .... in response to arrogant, ungracious and ignorant Dublin posts
I'm sure Fermanagh would like to contest that narrative this year.
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Quote from: blast05 on October 10, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
The only place i have seen anger and frustration from Mayo fans is on this forum .... in response to arrogant, ungracious and ignorant Dublin posts
Really? I'd say the arrogant, ungracious & ignorant posts are about ten to one non-Dublin > Dublin and if you read back through this thread it's the same.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
A Derrytresk man headbutted Parsons from his seat in the lower Hogan.
Quote from: blast05 on October 10, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/tommy-conlon-record-books-dont-factor-in-mayos-luckless-run-in-the-refereeing-lottery-35114617.html)
The very last sentence it captures it perfectly re Mayo fans
The only place i have seen anger and frustration from Mayo fans is on this forum .... in response to arrogant, ungracious and ignorant Dublin posts
Just read the Tommy Conlon piece.
"Straight afterwards, as Mayo come out of defence, Connolly runs 20 metres to topple Donie Vaughan on the blindside, off the ball. It's a textbook black card situation: taking the support player out of the move with a body check"
Couldn't disagree more with this assessment. Actually followed this play as it happened and watched it numerous times on TV, Connelly sprints back to help defend, (a sprint that started on the 21 when he was the only man up there), he sprinted past a couple of Dublin and Mayo players, was running past Vaughan when Vaughan turned to his right and collided with Connelly.
If this is a black card then football f#$ked, because we are one step away from eliminating all physical contact out of the game. IMO, Vaughan was walking a tight rope for a red, as he sprinted up to Connelly and initiated there altercation.
The black card rule is a disaster, we have a red and yellow card. Replace any black card with a yellow during the game and the players would have to adjust. For example Keegan would not have the latitude to get into a tangle with Connelly if he was on a yellow, this would have given Connelly and advantage, same at the other end.
Just cut out the black cards and be more consistent with the red and yellows.
Final point, the replay was a great game, and people should focus on that not this petty BS.
I think Mayo are closer to an All Ireland than they ever have been before, as long as they rally around and get back at it. And this statement applies to the fans as well. If the focus on referees and Dublin, then another team will pop up and take there place
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
Quote from: iorras on October 11, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
It's only defamation if it's untrue! (or 'largely untrue')!
Thought the worst challenge of the game was the reckless one by James McCarthy on Vaughan in 1st half. Vaughan had just caught a kick-out (one of Hennelly's better ones)...after palming it up in the air and getting it on 2nd go. McCarthy took off from 10 yards away & flung himself into Vaughan not even looking at the ball and connected with his hip against Vaughan's head. Then the ref had a word with Paul Flynn as McCarthy drifted away. Vaughan was a big loss of legs for mayo in 2nd half
Kieran Shannon has an excellent piece in the Examiner today pointing out the big difference between the Mayo and Dublin forward lines and the ability of Dublin players to score with either foot.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/dublins-success-cultivated-by-the-team-pillar-caffrey-built-425114.html
Did Mayo do anything wrong in the final? All the over analysis seems to be of Dublin incidents but perhaps that's one of the reasons they are All Ireland champions again, ruthlessness.
Quote from: iorras on October 11, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
Haha, a complete cop out. It didnt happen
Quote from: Buckass on October 11, 2016, 10:37:33 AM
Thought the worst challenge of the game was the reckless one by James McCarthy on Vaughan in 1st half. Vaughan had just caught a kick-out (one of Hennelly's better ones)...after palming it up in the air and getting it on 2nd go. McCarthy took off from 10 yards away & flung himself into Vaughan not even looking at the ball and connected with his hip against Vaughan's head. Then the ref had a word with Paul Flynn as McCarthy drifted away. Vaughan was a big loss of legs for mayo in 2nd half
The worst challenge and the cutest. Ball was in the vicinity, so impossible for the ref to determine; if it was a genuine attempt for the ball, a reckless attempt to injure an opponent, or a legitimate case of taking "ball and man"
Quote from: dublin7 on October 11, 2016, 11:38:32 AM
Kieran Shannon has an excellent piece in the Examiner today pointing out the big difference between the Mayo and Dublin forward lines and the ability of Dublin players to score with either foot.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/dublins-success-cultivated-by-the-team-pillar-caffrey-built-425114.html
Some of the Dublin forwards were unable to score of either foot in the 2 finals. Are they the 'greatest team with ordinary forwards' in GAA history?
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 11, 2016, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 11, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
Haha, a complete cop out. It didnt happen
It mustn't have. It was Parsons scratching his head...
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 11, 2016, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 11, 2016, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 11, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
Haha, a complete cop out. It didnt happen
It mustn't have. It was Parsons scratching his head...
Ah it was probably the same move O'Shea tried last year. You know the one when he grabbed his jersey to make him head butt
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 11, 2016, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 11, 2016, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: iorras on October 11, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 10, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
Iorras you mentioned you witnessed this headbutt on Parsons so can you share with us exactly what you saw.
I only saw him coming off with the blood pouring from his head but it was amazing nobody on RTE brought it up.
I think your lack of telling the story means people are not believing you.
Are you mad? If any of our learned hacks couldn't be bothered researching it and writing about it then I'm not going to start naming names on a public website. Checkout defamation Ireland's website to see what can happen. I'm amazed it hasn't happened here up to now but I'm not risking that.
I really don't care if people believe me or not
People on RTE or anywhere else don't seem to have been capable of talking about anything else except Rob Hennelly. There was over 25 minutes of ball to be played when he made his mistake, plenty of time left to win or lose many matches. The big impact he had was on whatever substitution strategy Mayo had, 3 subs have to have been outside of the plan.
Haha, a complete cop out. It didnt happen
It mustn't have. It was Parsons scratching his head...
obviously something happened him but he wasnt headbutted
It's always amazing how the winning fans are so quick to say "Stop all the whinging and over analysing of any controversial issues and just move on lads".
I replayed that incident just before half time again last night and you can see near the top of your screen Parsons is being pulled and pushed by our old pal Philly McMahon but the camera moves off them before any contact happens so it's not clear from that angle. Now I am assuming something happened between the two if Parsons comes off at half time bleeding from his eye and so I'm just asking did anyone on here see exactly what happened. I think you're a bit paranoid Iorras as you're just commenting on what you saw at a sports match.
Personally, I think it's a disgrace if a lad comes off the pitch needing stitches and nobody is willing to talk about it or apportion blame. Has nobody in the media even brought it up or asked how did it happen?
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 11, 2016, 02:32:30 PM
It's always amazing how the winning fans are so quick to say "Stop all the whinging and over analysing of any controversial issues and just move on lads".
I replayed that incident just before half time again last night and you can see near the top of your screen Parsons is being pulled and pushed by our old pal Philly McMahon but the camera moves off them before any contact happens so it's not clear from that angle. Now I am assuming something happened between the two if Parsons comes off at half time bleeding from his eye and so I'm just asking did anyone on here see exactly what happened. I think you're a bit paranoid Iorras as you're just commenting on what you saw at a sports match.
Personally, I think it's a disgrace if a lad comes off the pitch needing stitches and nobody is willing to talk about it or apportion blame. Has nobody in the media even brought it up or asked how did it happen?
Nothing like a little bit of factual information to get in the way of a good story. But here goes.
I saw him after a club game at the weekend. He is still supporting six or eight stitches on a cut on his eyelid.
In fairness to the lad, he didn't want to talk about it.
My own theory is that a seagull familiar to Croke park lost his bearings and flew into him. You know how these kind of things can happen in an All-Ireland final.
As someone else and now you mentioned, how some of the dozens of said hacks that now cover every aspect of the games could not be bothered to review the incident sums up their current day leanings.
Reality, they are more worried about access to a certain team and to their next interview and it probably wont be for the western people or Mayo news.
However, even more perplexing is how the game official on the Cusack side failed to bring it to the ref's attention. He must have been thinking about how late he was for his half-time cup of tea. Then again, considering the punishment for Small in an incident around the same time sums up the performance of all the officials on the day.
Not sour grapes, but for some bloggers to come on here and say nothing happened is a little too much to stomach.
If it had been a Tyrone man.....
As a neutral observer, if Parsons had been headbutted I would have expected to see several Mayo players, particularly Cillian O'Connor and Aidan O'Shea making A LOT of noise about it, to both the ref and linesman.
Yes Jinxy but there was so many other incidents going on at the same time and maybe most people's eyes were drawn to CoC and Small lashing arms at each other in the middle of the pitch whereas Connolly and Vaughan were busy squaring up to each other also. The ref had a good long chat with both linesmen after it but obviously none of them saw anything with Parsons and McMahon.
What I'm trying to find out is was it possible it was an accidental clash of heads with the pushing and pulling or did someone see a clear headbutt?
Quote from: Jinxy on October 11, 2016, 02:48:24 PM
As a neutral observer, if Parsons had been headbutted I would have expected to see several Mayo players, particularly Cillian O'Connor and Aidan O'Shea making A LOT of noise about it, to both the ref and linesman.
Jinxy,
If you remember, Cillian O Connor was been "occupied" by Small at the time. Forgot where O Shea was but no doubt had the attention of one or two. If you go back and look at it, this melee took place away from main scuffle.
I was at the game and could clearly see Parsons pointing out to your fellow county man who was no more than ten yards away from incident, of course he did shag all.
Don't think it was a headbut. But still boggles the mind how no action was taken.
Bigger issue is as I said earlier not one reporter or journalist followed up on it. Go figure.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 11, 2016, 02:48:24 PM
As a neutral observer, if Parsons had been headbutted I would have expected to see several Mayo players, particularly Cillian O'Connor and Aidan O'Shea making A LOT of noise about it, to both the ref and linesman.
I remember in the semi final last year Rory O'Carroll having to go off injured and get stitches in the face after being struck by Cllian O'Connor when they were both going for the ball. That was deemed to be accidental then. Is it not possible something similar happened in this game as well?
Also as Jinxy pointed out, if Tom Parson had actually been headbutted ::) by a certain Dublin player you can be sure the Mayo players would have been straight up to the ref/linesman to have the dublin player sent off. It seems strange that with all the tv cameras, officials and photographers around the ground no one has seen/mentioned or photographs of it happening yet some fans know this is what happened simply by watching parts of the game and using Sherlock Holmes like detective skills!!
Could these same people watch the various videos of JFK's assassination in Dallas and use their powers of deduction to reveal who really fired the lethal shots and did they come from the book depository or the grassy knoll?
What's more likely.....Philly McMahon head butts him in front of 82000 supporters, countless officials and journalists and 28 players and subs and not one says a word.....or there is an innocent coming together like-takes deep breath-O'Connor and O'Carroll last year. I remember us Dubs up in arms over this. Something similar here I would say is more possible.
But because it's Philly McMahon, let's take it that it was a vicious head butt.
Beat me to it D7
Quote from: Buttofthehill on October 11, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Beat me to it D7
Lets clarify, it was not a head butt.
Why don't you at least take the time to watch it before you making stupid assertions.
There was one so called Journo asking questions about it, have a guess, yes that's right, Spewan McKenna.
I'm going to take some time of work and watching every game in the league and championship in slow motion and come on here and write about and throw wild accusations around. Unmoderated!!
Quote from: joemamas on October 11, 2016, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on October 11, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Beat me to it D7
Lets clarify, it was not a head butt.
Why don't you at least take the time to watch it before you making stupid assertions.
Let me just clarify because you seem to be unable to get the gist of my point...I've no doubt that there was no head butt. It was said here that there was which is utter bullshit.
Quote from: joemamas on October 11, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
I was at the game and could clearly see Parsons pointing out to your fellow county man who was no more than ten yards away from incident, of course he did shag all.
Don't think it was a headbut. But still boggles the mind how no action was taken.
You don't know what happened, nobody appears to know what happened.
And yet officials are supposed to "take action" based on something nobody saw?
Quote from: sid waddell on October 11, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 11, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
I was at the game and could clearly see Parsons pointing out to your fellow county man who was no more than ten yards away from incident, of course he did shag all.
Don't think it was a headbut. But still boggles the mind how no action was taken.
You don't know what happened, nobody appears to know what happened.
And yet officials are supposed to "take action" based on something nobody saw?
Sid,
Just thought I might remind you that there also is no Santa Claus.
I welcome all the newbies on the blog, but could all of you have a little common sense, otherwise you won't have a lot of credibility.
I don't want to turn this into a Mayo V Dublin feud, as most of the long-term Dublin posters on this blog are fairly decent, knowledgeable and gracious supporters.
Yeah... most of them are.
Ye know the game was 10 days ago, right?
Quote from: joemamas on October 11, 2016, 04:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 11, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 11, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
I was at the game and could clearly see Parsons pointing out to your fellow county man who was no more than ten yards away from incident, of course he did shag all.
Don't think it was a headbut. But still boggles the mind how no action was taken.
You don't know what happened, nobody appears to know what happened.
And yet officials are supposed to "take action" based on something nobody saw?
Sid,
Just thought I might remind you that there also is no Santa Claus.
I welcome all the newbies on the blog, but could all of you have a little common sense, otherwise you won't have a lot of credibility.
I don't want to turn this into a Mayo V Dublin feud, as most of the long-term Dublin posters on this blog are fairly decent, knowledgeable and gracious supporters.
Yeah, sorry for daring to have a different opinion to you. Thanks for the welcome though.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 11, 2016, 05:39:14 PM
Ye know the game was 10 days ago, right?
As the 2017 season begins Thursday night this should be locked then.
Move along lads. Nothing to see here
Very simple question lads.
Did anyone here see what exactly caused the cut in Parsons eye?
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 11, 2016, 10:39:30 PM
Very simple question lads.
Did anyone here see what exactly caused the cut in Parsons eye?
Speaking as a Mayoman, if you didn't see it and/or if you have no evidence of anything, please say nothing.
For the record, I saw nothing.
Quote from: dublin7 on October 11, 2016, 11:38:32 AM
Kieran Shannon has an excellent piece in the Examiner today pointing out the big difference between the Mayo and Dublin forward lines and the ability of Dublin players to score with either foot.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/dublins-success-cultivated-by-the-team-pillar-caffrey-built-425114.html
Largely ignored by many of the Mayo contingent who get very defensive when you mentioned their lacking of scoring power from their forwards.
Quote
Largely ignored by many of the Mayo contingent
Why would we even give a sh*t ?
Perhaps of equal general interest would be if you re-posted from an article published yesterday (i think from Parkinson but i have no interest in digging it out) about the shambles and joke that is the Dublin club championship.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 11, 2016, 05:39:14 PM
Ye know the game was 10 days ago, right?
Given the length of other post mortem on this board, ten days isn't bad at all!
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 11, 2016, 10:39:30 PM
Very simple question lads.
Did anyone here see what exactly caused the cut in Parsons eye?
no one seems to have seen it but at the same time most seem to be able to reassure every one there was no head but.
must be another case like John Finn breaking his own Jaw
we do stuff like that in mayo
Going from the limited footage I have got to see on the Parsons incident, Philly runs after and grabs Parsons, a tussle ensues and if anything it looks like Parsons lunged at Philly causing the clash of heads. My take it was a complete accident as Parsons would definetiley not throw the head at someone and ther is no evidence that Phillys head moved towards Parsons.
Thanks for that Philly.
Oh dear I seem to have ruffled someone feathers ;D
Would be interesting to find the breakdown of the national paper sales in Mayo.
Then a check back to the journalists who ran the stories on Lee in the build up to the Final.
It our choice whether we want to buy their trash !If you catch where I'm going.
How the national newspapers ( editors) and possibly other media allow themselves be influenced by ex Dublin players in blatant attempts, to influence a referee ,in the week of the Ireland final should be looked at and seriously queried.
It seems to be the Dublin norm that they will control the media at all others expense.What's worse, it seems that this ploy worked, as Lee certainly didn't get the benefit of the doubt.
If the GAA can't/wont do something about it then we as Mayo supporters can.
We can also influence the nationals.
A warning could be issued to the nationals to refrain from printing any derogatory Mayo opinions and anything that can be perceived as an attempt at 'getting at' the referee in big matches.If the national editors, persist then ...............
News paper sales can be the motivating factor to get compliance.
I believe the word Boycott was invented in Mayo.
Quote from: rrhf on October 01, 2016, 10:39:24 PM
The black card advocated by pundits has made a mockery of Gaelic football.
If I were the mayo manager I would be seriously considering withdrawing all interviews with RTE and the national papers next year. Speak to SKY and local mayo papers only, maybe that would focus RTE into looking into the quality of their pundits.
Regarding the all stars, I am finding th bitching form certain Dub social media sites quiet entertaining, the arrogance is amazing really. Personally I dont take much notice to the all stars, really couldnt care if we won any or not. Football is a team sport where the prize is given out in September.
Quote from: gammysolo on November 06, 2016, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 01, 2016, 10:39:24 PM
The black card advocated by pundits has made a mockery of Gaelic football.
If I were the mayo manager I would be seriously considering withdrawing all interviews with RTE and the national papers next year. Speak to SKY and local mayo papers only, maybe that would focus RTE into looking into the quality of their pundits.
Regarding the all stars, I am finding th bitching form certain Dub social media sites quiet entertaining, the arrogance is amazing really. Personally I dont take much notice to the all stars, really couldnt care if we won any or not. Football is a team sport where the prize is given out in September.
'YE' didn't. ::)
'I definitely missed it': All-Ireland final replay ref admits John Small should have been black carded against Mayo
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30/11/2016 | 20:50
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Referee Maurice Deegan, who officiated this year's All-Ireland football final replay between Dublin and Mayo, has admitted that he should have black carded John Small early in the game.
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The Dublin defender appeared to hand-trip Andy Moran in the opening exchanges, but Deegan opted not to issue a black card. He later gave black cards to Dublin's Jonny Cooper and to Mayo duo Lee Keegan and Robbie Hennelly.
Speaking to RTE Radio Sport this afternoon, Deegan admitted that Small should have joined the aforementioned trio in the stand, but escaped the sanctioned because the referee and is officiating team weren't certain of the offence.
"In my view, I'm happy that I got the three of them right," Deegan said of the Cooper, Keegan and Hennelly decisions.
"But I will say one thing, I definitely missed the black card that I should have got. That was in the first five minutes of the game.
"It was John Small on Andy Moran.
"I wasn't 100% sure that I saw it. We were wired up. Obviously, when you come to Croke Park your umpires and everyone is wired up.
"I would have asked my linesman did he see it, and he said he didn't see it clearly. When you don't see it clearly – and especially from where I was standing, I couldn't see it clearly either – I asked the umpires and no one had seen it properly, they weren't 100% sure.
Dublin went on to win the game by a single point to collect their second consecutive All-Ireland football title and their fourth in six seasons.
With them all wired up I can't see why they can't be wired to another guy in front of a tv screen for matches that are in Croker. They don't need to officially go down the rugby TMO route yet but just let the ref talk to him like he does with the other officials. Likewise if he sees something that the ref missed then he can communicate it with the ref.
Lets face it most of us who have a problem with the refs performance in a game is because what we've saw on tv and so it would make his job a lot easier.
With the technology already all there why would they not choose to use it. They don't need to be stopping the match and asking for every decision but it would be a HUGE help to the refs for some of this hard decisions like black card offences and dives etc. A lot of the wrong calls with black cards could have been avoided if there was an official at a tv screen.
I admire deegan for admitting he missed it.
I long for the day cormac fookn reilly answers one simple question .
He wasn't 100% sure ::) How could he have been 100% sure that Keegan's was a black? Most people who have watched it back a few times disagree. Nonsense...cover for letting himself be influenced.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 01, 2016, 06:20:46 PM
I admire deegan for admitting he missed it.
I long for the day cormac fookn reilly answers one simple question .
One Question? Jez, that lad would think he was on MasterMind all the questions he'd have to Answer! :P
He didn't make Head Coaches O'Shea and O'Connor run in into each other like a Laurel and Hardy skit, lads.
Quote from: Syferus on December 01, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
He didn't make Head Coaches O'Shea and O'Connor run in into each other like a Laurel and Hardy skit, lads.
Seem to remember him doing ye're crowd over in 2015 v Fermanagh.
The (farcical) penalty decision of course had nothing to do with the result!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc)
Quote from: Syferus on December 01, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
He didn't make Head Coaches O'Shea and O'Connor run in into each other like a Laurel and Hardy skit, lads.
What a stupid thing ro say. To put an accidental collision of two teammates into some form of joke as if they were to blame somehow.
Joke is on you and your county ! Laughing out loud since 2001 i am.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 01, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
He didn't make Head Coaches O'Shea and O'Connor run in into each other like a Laurel and Hardy skit, lads.
Seem to remember him doing ye're crowd over in 2015 v Fermanagh.
The (farcical) penalty decision of course had nothing to do with the result!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc)
Sure he took a point away from us as a lineman v. Sligo last year too. But he wasn't the reason we lost either game.
I was down near the pitch that day in Limerick and the bumbling collision between your best midfielder and best free-taker happened right in front of me, it took both out of the game for most intents and purposes. Even with Reilly if that hadn't happened you would likely have won.
That's just silly. Players get injured incidentally in games. Sometimes against opponents, sometimes against teammates. That's the nature of a contact sport. However, referees' calls are a completely different animal altogether.
I don't buy Deegan's review. Looking at it live Small's was the probably the most clear cut black of the day. I suspect that neither Deegan or any of his wing men wanted to make the hard call after a few minutes in an AI final and send a player off. They bottled it. That's human nature I suppose. Later when things het up a bit they were not slow making up their minds.
After Reilly, Bannon and McEneaney, this sort of thing is hard to take. I know I am paranoid but I still think they are out to get us.
Cormac Reilly is a top 5 ref.
Top five! Aye good man jinxy. Tis the only top 5 the royals have so.
A simple question , he awarded a penalty , so he seen enright foul. What follows?
As I recall Cormac Reilly reffed the Mayo Kerry game very well and rightly left left the two teams get stuck into each other. Too many football fans are far too quick to complain about referees and we should be encouraging them to allow the physicality back into football.
Quote from: Syferus on December 01, 2016, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 01, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
He didn't make Head Coaches O'Shea and O'Connor run in into each other like a Laurel and Hardy skit, lads.
Seem to remember him doing ye're crowd over in 2015 v Fermanagh.
The (farcical) penalty decision of course had nothing to do with the result!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnL9U1dkPjc)
Sure he took a point away from us as a lineman v. Sligo last year too. But he wasn't the reason we lost either game.
I was down near the pitch that day in Limerick and the bumbling collision between your best midfielder and best free-taker happened right in front of me, it took both out of the game for most intents and purposes. Even with Reilly if that hadn't happened you would likely have won.
That was just crazy. A blatant point. Rightfully removed from referee panel this year.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 02, 2016, 10:29:42 AM
Top five! Aye good man jinxy. Tis the only top 5 the royals have so.
A simple question , he awarded a penalty , so he seen enright foul. What follows?
agree Enright should have gone. 3 yellows card offences. He took Aidan O'Shea out for one of Mayo goals. I wonder was o'Shea injured(as result of Enright challenge) before his collison with Cillian O'Connor. Donaghy got a couple soft frees for diving that day
Quote from: moysider on December 02, 2016, 01:13:23 AM
That's just silly. Players get injured incidentally in games. Sometimes against opponents, sometimes against teammates. That's the nature of a contact sport. However, referees' calls are a completely different animal altogether.
I don't buy Deegan's review. Looking at it live Small's was the probably the most clear cut black of the day. I suspect that neither Deegan or any of his wing men wanted to make the hard call after a few minutes in an AI final and send a player off. They bottled it. That's human nature I suppose. Later when things het up a bit they were not slow making up their minds.
After Reilly, Bannon and McEneaney, this sort of thing is hard to take. I know I am paranoid but I still think they are out to get us.
Small was a blatant black but in fairness Doherty could have got the line for the little dunt on Cooper after Leroy goal
Where did that copy and paste job come from?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 11, 2016, 06:02:25 PM
Where did that copy and paste job come from?
Question is where does gammy solo come from. It's not Mayo, that's for sure
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 12, 2016, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 11, 2016, 06:02:25 PM
Where did that copy and paste job come from?
Question is where does gammy solo come from. It's not Mayo, that's for sure
In his last post he uses a word that has only appeared in around 26 posts in the history of the board. And some of them include quotes of previous posts, so it was used in around 20 posts ever. If he is a sock puppet, that might be a good place to start looking. ;)
He also posts over on the blog under 2 different user names pretending he is a Mayo man.
dublin have since 2011 been the beneficiary of incredible latitude, be that the absolution of Reverend Fr Ger Brennan in that particular All Ireland final for what was beyond any doubt a straight Red offence perpetrated against Declan O'Sullivan,. That particular blatant failure by the referee in question let to Kevin McManimon equalising goal, '. going by a clearly concussed Declan O'Sullivan with impunity. They have since then managed to play every single match in Croke Park bar one, and on that occasion(first round of the championship 2016) Laois had to play the match in Nolan Park despite their opponents on the day Laois having a better and bigger home ground than Killkenny ..Just look at the HoHa Dublin are making out of playing a championship match outside of Croke Park for the first round of the championship in 2017,, it's not right, imagine those poor Dublin players having to play a match, where you might even hear a coilte accent, mind boggling how Dublin and the blatant biased Dublin media, RTE et al manage to ignore the fact, and continue to romance the greatness of a team that never had to play against a worthy opponent without the dice being loaded in their favour . In 2013 an attempt at a point by Bernard Brogan in the second half of the All Ireland final Versus Mayo which looked clearly wide on TV after several viewings was not brought to the attention of the 'Hawk_eye, same again in the 2016.All Ireland final, first attempt at a point of the second half (an attempted free from Dean Rock) clearly wide. There is more, but I feel a headache coming on,. Let's just accept the fact it's just NOT a level playing field. The recently deceased and great singer/songwriter 'Leonard Cohen' wrote several songs, one has the lines. 'Everybody knows that war is over, everybody knows that the good guy's lost'... On the subject of Tom Cunniffe and his utterances as regards the treatment of Noel and Pat, I'm guessing at this now, my feelings is that it's now coming to the end of 2016 and Tom to me seems to feel very bad about the whole affair, I:d say Tom (and I had the pleasure of meeting him a time or two) is of the opinion that he won't let this year end without doing something to put right, what he feels was an injustice of last year. I have no doubts but that Tom, too has the interest of Mayo at heart, as he is of no doubt too that Pat and Noel have,. No doubt also that many, with a different view inside the Mayo camp may have a contrary view to Tom's, and they too have what they see as Mayos best interests at heart. Anyway, no blame for that particular episode can be laid at the feet of Stephen Rochford so no harm will come out of it, in my view!
Anyone got any panadol?
Quote from: maigheo on December 12, 2016, 01:34:00 AM
He also posts over on the blog under 2 different user names pretending he is a Mayo man.
The conspiracy is real.
If everyone totally ignored the bastud, he'd get bored and eff off somewhere else to get his kicks.
Syferus or the other lad?
Given that Dublin,
-Play 99% of their games in Croke Park
-Use the same dressing room and warm up at the same end of the pitch
-Have a couple of local ex heroin addicts as the warm up act before the All Ireland
-Have 10 times the population of Mayo
-Have 10 times the resources of Mayo and everyone else
-Have the host and main panelist on the Sunday Game
-Have the ref living and coaching in a dublin club
-Have the national media backing you because they sell more papers in Dublin
-Orchastrated a campaign to blacken the best player in the country
You'd think with all these advantages you'd be beating us out the gate and yet after 160 minutes of football you beat us by ONE point
Are you still pretending to be a Mayo man gammy? Bit late after referring to Roscommon as "us". Create a new username and start from scratch pls
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22411.msg1642689#msg1642689
Identical post to one made by a mayo gaa blog poster. Wtf is going on here?
I think Gammy is copying the Mayo gas blog poster
Not the place for it but probably the best spot for it all the same. Lovely touch by The Rock releasing a video supporting Tommy Hanley, Pierce's 15 year-old brother, who's fighting stage 4 cancer. All the best to the Hanley family.
Quote from: Syferus on December 18, 2016, 03:26:25 PM
Not the place for it but probably the best spot for it all the same. Lovely touch by The Rock releasing a video supporting Tommy Hanley, Pierece's 15 year-old brother, who's fighting stage 4 cancer. All the best to the Hanley family.
Jesus, didn't realise that. Tough on someone so young. All the best to them
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:24:45 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 18, 2016, 03:26:25 PM
Not the place for it but probably the best spot for it all the same. Lovely touch by The Rock releasing a video supporting Tommy Hanley, Pierece's 15 year-old brother, who's fighting stage 4 cancer. All the best to the Hanley family.
Jesus, didn't realise that. Tough on someone so young. All the best to them
seconded. I hate cancer