Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

[Taylor]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

If you arent taking the piss I will humour you Angelo.

Who are the 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better?

[Blowitupref]

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

[yellowcard]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

[Angelo]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

If you arent taking the piss I will humour you Angelo.

Who are the 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better?

Morgan
Beggan
Patton
Galligan


Patton has probably the best kickouts in the business but is very iffy under a high ball. How well do you think Cluxton would do on kickouts if he had to hit Tyrone players against a full Dublin press? How much easier would Morgan's job be if he had Fenton, James McCarthy, Brian Howard and Kilkenny to hit?

Cluxton's job as a goalkeeper is some much easier than any other keeper in Ireland has it.

[Angelo]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

[Hound]

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

Luck and experience are two of the most important factors of being good on the line. Dessie certainly doesn't have as much of the latter as Jim had. Jim got away with a couple of howlers in the earlier part of his career, like taking off Fenton v Mayo in a semi final and emptying the bench too early in the final the following year I think.

While our bench is strong this year, I don't think it's a strong as in some years. But the team itself is full of leaders and capable of making adjustments on the pitch, which has to be a help.

dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

Form in semi finals especially is almost entirely irrelevant.
I'm not sure what happened to the Mayo defence v Tipp in that it was so open for so many goal chances. But I would imagine they would have been able to figure out what went wrong and fix it for Saturday. It's not like the Mayo lads don't know how to defend.

[Crete Boom]

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

Was Farrell manager when Mayo beat Dublin in the U21 semi in 2016?

[TheGreatest]

Filled with nerves about this one, thinking this is where it ends. it will be tight but Mayo have a great shout and lets be honest, a lot of the pressure is off them this year.

No Fans, no tickets, some baggage gone.

Hoping for a good open entertaining game. Mayo always bring it.

[Blowitupref]

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

Was Farrell manager when Mayo beat Dublin in the U21 semi in 2016?

Indeed he was.

[Lar Naparka]

Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything. Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

I know this is definitely off-topic and I don' want to create any more cul de sacs but the reasons decentralisation failed can't be blamed on rural politicians' infighting.
That's what Berit said after a feed of beer one night in Fagan's anyway.
The main reason, sez he, was that senior civil servants resisted the change. By and large, they enjoyed a comfortable way of life in Dublin and would have to forego their golf club memberships etc. Another big baulk was the certainty that they would henceforth have to pay accommodation for their children, who without doubt would most likely be going on to third level education.
Furthermore, it is inconceivable that Bertie o. did not know that the proposal would be a definite non-starter, given the resistance of the civil service.
It was an election ploy that codded the electorate and returned FF to power once more.

[yellowcard]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

The keepers you named are all good keepers in their own right and in fact I'd give Galligan the All Star goalkeeper right now if the awards were being handed out. However I wouldn't take any of them over Cluxton who has performed at the highest level under the greatest scrutiny for the best part of 2 decades. And I don't think many would, you are simply allowing anti Dublin sentiment to cloud your judgement. Some of them may play better over a 3-4 game spell and the gap is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago but I think you do a great disservice to Cluxton who will go down as the greatest goalkeeper in GAA history. 

[Angelo]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

The keepers you named are all good keepers in their own right and in fact I'd give Galligan the All Star goalkeeper right now if the awards were being handed out. However I wouldn't take any of them over Cluxton who has performed at the highest level under the greatest scrutiny for the best part of 2 decades. And I don't think many would, you are simply allowing anti Dublin sentiment to cloud your judgement. Some of them may play better over a 3-4 game spell and the gap is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago but I think you do a great disservice to Cluxton who will go down as the greatest goalkeeper in GAA history.

So you are making no allowance for the team Cluxton is in?

It's not an anti-Dublin sentiment. It's the opposite in fact. I think this Dublin team is far and away better than any other team in the country and that's one of the reasons people overrate Cluxton, their outfield players are so much better than every other team.

[TheGreatest]

Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or?

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

[Angelo]

Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or?

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

[TheGreatest]

Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or?

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.