Down hurling manager Ronan Sheehan has alleged that his players were subjected to sectarian abuse during Sunday's Allianz League clash with Carlow.
Marc Fisher scored a late goal at Ballycran as the Mourne men won by the narrowest of margins in the Division 2A Allianz League encounter.
But Sheehan took to social media afterwards to express disappointment at some of the words that had been used against his players in the game.
Speaking to RTÉ Sport, Sheehan alleged that the abuse had come from Carlow players, and that he had been informed of it by his own panelists in the dressing room after the game.
"It may only be loose words for the person saying them but it does impact on players given who they are and what some of their families endured to play our national games," Sheehan said.
"If we had lost today I would have said nothing as people would say it was only sour grapes but when we won I thought it was important to highlight [it] as it's an insult to Gaels up here."
Carlow GAA were approached for comment, and released the following statement: "Carlow GAA are committed to upholding the principles of Anti-Sectarianism and Anti-Racism.
"All related reports/allegations are investigated and action taken as appropriate," said Jim Bolger, chairperson of Carlow GAA.
Under GAA rules, sectarian abuse is a red card offence, which may carry a two-game ban, if witnessed by the referee or one of their officials.
Sectarian? That would be unusual seeing as GAA players would traditionally be from the same 'sect'.
When did Carlow become an independent or dominion state? I didn't know it had a campaign to break away from Ireland?What did Ireland do to Carlow to anger them so much?
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2022, 11:26:01 AM
Sectarian? That would be unusual seeing as GAA players would traditionally be from the same 'sect'.
You would think that but there's very few men in my experience haven't been called a "black bastard" or "Nordie p***k" when playing down South.
It's not exactly pleasant but I wouldn't be running to the media about it, if they're not calling you that they'll find some other way of calling you a **** it never really worried me as to the exact wording.
Staunch Republicans around Tyrone telling me to go back to Londonderry or calling me a Londonderry bastard is a particular highlight... but then you're not exactly dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed with that bunch!!
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2022, 11:26:01 AM
Sectarian? That would be unusual seeing as GAA players would traditionally be from the same 'sect'.
You would think that...
Carlow lads obviously think differently
Interesting that your only comment on the issue is this
Thread title need changing
Can't understand anybody who does this sort of thing. Wtf do they gain by it anyway? Carlow certainly didn't seeing as they lost.
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
Disgusting behaviour any true Irish person would condemn it. But maybe you'd stop aping the assholes who say this stuff by branding us all "freestaters" which is term I find offensive
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2022, 12:33:48 PM
Disgusting behaviour any true Irish person would condemn it. But maybe you'd stop aping the assholes who say this stuff by branding us all "freestaters" which is term I find offensive
Exactly. Stop calling people from the Republic of Ireland "free staters" and your argument might get off to a better start.
Anyway this should be in the "hurling discussion" forum.
Quote from: The PRO on February 07, 2022, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2022, 12:33:48 PM
Disgusting behaviour any true Irish person would condemn it. But maybe you'd stop aping the assholes who say this stuff by branding us all "freestaters" which is term I find offensive
Exactly. Stop calling people from the Republic of Ireland "free staters" and your argument might get off to a better start.
Anyway this should be in the "hurling discussion" forum.
Why? Its not about hurling, its about calling people black bastards and prods
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
Windscale became Sellafield, but it is still radioactive.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2022, 11:26:01 AM
Sectarian? That would be unusual seeing as GAA players would traditionally be from the same 'sect'.
Not unusual to be called 'black bastards', etc over the years.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
I don't understand the point of the Free Stater insult . If there is going to be a UI who will pay for it ? I think the insult is trina cheile.
Shocking meat head stuff. Can remember being at an NFL games in Omagh some years back involving Tyrone & the Rossies. The stadium announcer was pleased to say that the Rossies were the first southern side to come up the night before a game & stay in Omagh. He even said I repeat the Rossies were the first southern team to come up before & spend the night in a hotel in Omagh. It got a round of applause from the Tyrone supporters present. I think poor auld kevin McStay had to foot the bill, as the county boards credit card was declined ;D
Must say always enjoyed games away to Fermanagh, Tyrone & Armagh. Will be going to Newry in a few weeks, found Down lads to be unlikeable in the past, so will see how this goes. Pity the Derry game is not in Celtic Park, would have got the spuds in Fitzroys. Or would youse Derry boys recommend any other spot worth checking out. PS Don't say the fecking chinese, every hoor from Donegal is in there ;D
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 01:10:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
I don't understand the point of the Free Stater insult . If there is going to be a UI who will pay for it ? I think the insult is trina cheile.
Most economists would suggest that a UI would involve a fairly significant economic boost, but that's neither here nor there.
The "Free Stater" point, in relation to a particular mindset some folk have, is to my mind not hard to understand at all.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 01:10:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
I don't understand the point of the Free Stater insult . If there is going to be a UI who will pay for it ? I think the insult is trina cheile.
Most economists would suggest that a UI would involve a fairly significant economic boost, but that's neither here nor there.
The "Free Stater" point, in relation to a particular mindset some folk have, is to my mind not hard to understand at all.
Sure hasn't Danny Morrison got a new book out specifically about it
https://twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1490288552168538113/photo/1
I'd say this is nowhere near as common as it was in the past but it probably still does go on. Its not that long ago that I remember Billy Sheehan was embroiled in a row over singing GSTQ to Ciaran McKeever at an Armagh v Laois match.
Its like everything else in the GAA: "Ah sure its just a bit of handbags and harmless enough stuff".
Just like the embarrassing, idiotic scenes in the Armagh-Tyrone game yesterday.
"Sure they're all at it".
Even if there are rules against it, the lawyers will get involved and get everyone off on some ludicrous technicality.
So nothing will change.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 01:10:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
I don't understand the point of the Free Stater insult . If there is going to be a UI who will pay for it ? I think the insult is trina cheile.
Most economists would suggest that a UI would involve a fairly significant economic boost, but that's neither here nor there.
The "Free Stater" point, in relation to a particular mindset some folk have, is to my mind not hard to understand at all.
Absorbing NI would be more like West Germany taking on East Germany. GDP per head is far lower. The Union didn't do much for investment.
The war didn't help either.
https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/economic-output-statistics/gross-value-added-and-gross-domestic-product#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20GDP%20per%20head%2C%20Northern%20Ireland,less%20than%202018%20%2878.1%20per%20cent%20of%20UK%29.
NI GVA per head in 2019 increased by 2.0 per cent in current basic prices (to £22,298) between 2018 and 2019, meanwhile the UK increased by 2.9 per cent. Both Wales and the North East had lower GVA per head than Northern Ireland (£21,295 and £20,727 respectively).
NI GVA per head was 75.3 per cent of the UK figure which is lower than 2018 (76.0 per cent of UK).
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 01:10:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Despicable behaviour that has no place in GAA.
"Free Staters" is also rancid. The Free State disappeared decades ago.
The political construct, yes. The mindset (which is what is being talked about here) is evidently alive and well in certain quarters.
I don't understand the point of the Free Stater insult . If there is going to be a UI who will pay for it ? I think the insult is trina cheile.
Most economists would suggest that a UI would involve a fairly significant economic boost, but that's neither here nor there.
The "Free Stater" point, in relation to a particular mindset some folk have, is to my mind not hard to understand at all.
Absorbing NI would be more like West Germany taking on East Germany. GDP per head is far lower. The Union didn't do much for investment.
The war didn't help either.
https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/economic-output-statistics/gross-value-added-and-gross-domestic-product#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20GDP%20per%20head%2C%20Northern%20Ireland,less%20than%202018%20%2878.1%20per%20cent%20of%20UK%29.
NI GVA per head in 2019 increased by 2.0 per cent in current basic prices (to £22,298) between 2018 and 2019, meanwhile the UK increased by 2.9 per cent. Both Wales and the North East had lower GVA per head than Northern Ireland (£21,295 and £20,727 respectively).
NI GVA per head was 75.3 per cent of the UK figure which is lower than 2018 (76.0 per cent of UK).
Nothing in that challenges either of my two points.
nordies are too precious imo ::)
always the victim
;D
Useful input as usual.
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 07, 2022, 02:16:25 PM
nordies are too precious imo ::)
always the victim
Nordies v Freestaters and Shinnerbots v The Stoops, and not a unionist in sight! United we stand! Up the Emerald Isle!
Quote from: screenexile on February 07, 2022, 11:46:33 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2022, 11:26:01 AM
Sectarian? That would be unusual seeing as GAA players would traditionally be from the same 'sect'.
You would think that but there's very few men in my experience haven't been called a "black bastard" or "Nordie p***k" when playing down South.
It's not exactly pleasant but I wouldn't be running to the media about it, if they're not calling you that they'll find some other way of calling you a **** it never really worried me as to the exact wording.
Staunch Republicans around Tyrone telling me to go back to Londonderry or calling me a Londonderry bastard is a particular highlight... but then you're not exactly dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed with that bunch!!
Obviously I didn't hear it , but It would be unusual for anyone to make this up.
Have to be honest though , despite several of my own relatives experiencing antagonism as northerners living in the south, that in several years of involvement in GAA matches in various roles and levels , I haven't experienced any antagonism . So though it undoubtedly happens it's probably bilateral and thankfully rare. Unless officials heard it there's nothing official can be done, but it's important to highlight it , as increased awareness , will hopefully eradicate it.
Thankfully Down had the right answer in winning on the field , adding To the embarrassment for the allleged mouthy players . A county such as Carlow , slap in the middle of Hurling country, and with no other major competitive sports rivalry to deal with , travelled up to Down that has only 3 established hurling clubs, with a combined feeder population of ~4000. Clubs who have had to fight for their very existence in the face of real sectarian antagonism including vandalising , burning , underfunding , and under provision of council support. Lower Ards is a special place , where Hurling is fostered against all the odds , I'm sure Carlow gaels were humbled in more way than one yesterday , and maybe they'll learn from the experience .
I ask that Those that accuse us of being " victims" in an insulting derogatory sense, just reflect on this single point. Your Fellow members of the GAA on this same island , have suffered horrendously as a result of their GAA membership, that's fact. Thankfully the GAA in the North has thrived in the face of adversity . A bit of sledging on the field pails into significance compared to murder, club burning, harassment from British armed forces that northern gaels had to endure , and insulting us as "poor me, nordies " perhaps betrays your own sense of shame and embarrassment that you didn't do enough to support us.
I feel a real admiration for what ROI has achieved in the last 100 years but there's still plenty to work on, including the lack of empathy from some towards those Equally passionate Irish who happened to be living North of the border when the treaty was signed 100 years ago . This treaty resulted in continuing conflict , and exposed "Irish" in the North to sectarianism, discrimination and murder. In my opinion, the conflict here could have been resolved years ago, if Northern nationalists didn't have to "paddle their own canoe "most of the time in calling out the actions within this sectarian statelet .
Pathetic and Laughable sledging, or accusing Nordies of exaggerated victimhood, is perhaps a distraction technique for those embarrassed by the lack of empathy and support from many in the South towards the North in the past 100 years. More importantly, well done Down, another small step in improving hurling in our county.
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 02:54:46 PM
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
Nah we should just let rip with all the slagging, nothing spared
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 02:54:46 PM
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
Couldn't agree more. Doesn't make it right, but It would be a long time before I'd be annoyed at someone calling me a black b*****d. Id be laughing at them.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2022, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 02:54:46 PM
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
Nah we should just let rip with all the slagging, nothing spared
I think you have completely missed my point. There are certainly many things that are beyond the pale but if the best someone can do is some puerile bollocks like this, why on earth would any adult let it get to them let alone make an issue out of it afterwards.
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 02:54:46 PM
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2022, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 07, 2022, 02:54:46 PM
FS you would think people on both sides of this would grow up, ye musta had a brave sheltered upbringing if some guy calling you a nordie or a freestater on a football pitch upsets you.
Nah we should just let rip with all the slagging, nothing spared
I think you have completely missed my point. There are certainly many things that are beyond the pale but if the best someone can do is some puerile bollocks like this, why on earth would any adult let it get to them let alone make an issue out of it afterwards.
Did u think that waving bananas at black players in the past was puerile ?
Most of us think freestater and Nordie sledging is laughable because it's pathetic , but in reality any form of insulting difference is dangerous territory.
What if one of Those Down players was Protestant or unionist, how would people feel about that? . There are several from the unionist community playing GAA , it would be unthinkable that they were exposed to any sectarian sledging . Carlow should investigate appropriately , and the GAA nationally , counties and clubs should again emphasise inclusivity and abhorrence of sledging, especially on the basis of difference. Unfortunately sledging is getting more widespread and this is just another manifestation of that.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
I don't know the religion or political affiliation of anyone on the Down team. What I do know from personal experience is that unionists are welcomed in the GAA. Unfortunately, it's probably unionist politicians' continued lack of warmth for the GAA , that continues to discourage GAA involvement from the unionist community. In the Ards area, Down's hurling heartland Unionists politicians have presided over underfunding and lack of recognition of the GAA, thankfully there are signs that this is changing . The East Belfast initiative is an example of a vibrant and genuine outreach in a predominantly unionist area. Most unionists I know admire and respect the GAA and many have joined or actively support it. Times they are a changing, thankfully . A friend of mine was chatting to a prominent ulster unionist a couple of years ago, who compared the GAA to the Orange order. Incredibly the politician was shocked by the very obvious answer. The Orange order excludes Catholics from joining, the GAA wants Protestants to join. Whereas one of the reasons the GAA thrives is its Irishness, we must work hard at ways of reassuring unionists they will be warmly welcomed and that Politics in reality is irrelevant to GAA clubs and members . There are several unionists enjoying the GAA , but few are ready to stick their head above the parapet and promote it because of the unwanted attention it could bring from bigots from the unionist side. They're too busy enjoying the sport to be bothered by bringing politics into it.
Quote from: 6th sam on February 07, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
I don't know the religion or political affiliation of anyone on the Down team. What I do know from personal experience is that unionists are welcomed in the GAA. Unfortunately, it's probably unionist politicians' continued lack of warmth for the GAA , that continues to discourage GAA involvement from the unionist community. In the Ards area, Down's hurling heartland Unionists politicians have presided over underfunding and lack of recognition of the GAA, thankfully there are signs that this is changing . The East Belfast initiative is an example of a vibrant snd genuine outreach in a predominantly unionist area. Most unionists I know admire and respect the GAA and many have joined or actively support it. Times they are a changing, thankfully . A friend of mine was chatting to a prominent ulster unionist a couple of years ago, who compared the GAA to the Orange order. Incredibly the politician was shocked by the very obvious answer. The Orange order excludes Catholics from joining, the GAA wants Protestants to join. Whereas one of the reasons the GAA thrives is its Irishness, we must work hard at ways of reassuring unionists they will be warmly welcomed and that Politics in reality is irrelevant to GAA clubs and members .
I've no doubt you and many other GAA are fans are entirely sincere.
But in your wishes/efforts to persuade people from the Unionist community in NI to give Gaelic games a try, you have completely failed. And have been for decades, with no real sign of anything much changing (East Belfast notwithstanding)
Compare that with the ability of the IFA to get people from the Nationalist community involved at every level, male and female, young and old, on and off the pitch. And that's while up against the counter attraction of the FAI, for which the GAA has no equivalent.
So never mind a few Carlow boys acting the maggot, this is the real "elephant in the room".
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 07, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
I don't know the religion or political affiliation of anyone on the Down team. What I do know from personal experience is that unionists are welcomed in the GAA. Unfortunately, it's probably unionist politicians' continued lack of warmth for the GAA , that continues to discourage GAA involvement from the unionist community. In the Ards area, Down's hurling heartland Unionists politicians have presided over underfunding and lack of recognition of the GAA, thankfully there are signs that this is changing . The East Belfast initiative is an example of a vibrant snd genuine outreach in a predominantly unionist area. Most unionists I know admire and respect the GAA and many have joined or actively support it. Times they are a changing, thankfully . A friend of mine was chatting to a prominent ulster unionist a couple of years ago, who compared the GAA to the Orange order. Incredibly the politician was shocked by the very obvious answer. The Orange order excludes Catholics from joining, the GAA wants Protestants to join. Whereas one of the reasons the GAA thrives is its Irishness, we must work hard at ways of reassuring unionists they will be warmly welcomed and that Politics in reality is irrelevant to GAA clubs and members .
I've no doubt you and many other GAA are fans are entirely sincere.
But in your wishes/efforts to persuade people from the Unionist community in NI to give Gaelic games a try, you have completely failed. And have been for decades, with no real sign of anything much changing (East Belfast notwithstanding)
Compare that with the ability of the IFA to get people from the Nationalist community involved at every level, male and female, young and old, on and off the pitch. And that's while up against the counter attraction of the FAI, for which the GAA has no equivalent.
So never mind a few Carlow boys acting the maggot, this is the real "elephant in the room".
Bit of a false analogy that. Kids play soccer all around the globe and IFA (even with their religious Sunday football bans) were never going to stop kids of a nationalist persuasion play the game. Even when former manager and current captain of women's team have asked them to change anthem, they have not budged nor will they. They play soccer inspite of IFa, not because of any particular moves to make a nationalist feel more welcome.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Do you know the religious backgrounds of the Down team that stripped out yesterday? I don't, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Down may have had one or two among their ranks - hence why I commented on this thread. I know of several people from non-Catholic backgrounds that have stripped out for Down clubs and most famously one who won an All-Ireland with the county team. So eh, yeah, I'll leave that thought with you.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 07, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
I don't know the religion or political affiliation of anyone on the Down team. What I do know from personal experience is that unionists are welcomed in the GAA. Unfortunately, it's probably unionist politicians' continued lack of warmth for the GAA , that continues to discourage GAA involvement from the unionist community. In the Ards area, Down's hurling heartland Unionists politicians have presided over underfunding and lack of recognition of the GAA, thankfully there are signs that this is changing . The East Belfast initiative is an example of a vibrant snd genuine outreach in a predominantly unionist area. Most unionists I know admire and respect the GAA and many have joined or actively support it. Times they are a changing, thankfully . A friend of mine was chatting to a prominent ulster unionist a couple of years ago, who compared the GAA to the Orange order. Incredibly the politician was shocked by the very obvious answer. The Orange order excludes Catholics from joining, the GAA wants Protestants to join. Whereas one of the reasons the GAA thrives is its Irishness, we must work hard at ways of reassuring unionists they will be warmly welcomed and that Politics in reality is irrelevant to GAA clubs and members .
I've no doubt you and many other GAA are fans are entirely sincere.
But in your wishes/efforts to persuade people from the Unionist community in NI to give Gaelic games a try, you have completely failed. And have been for decades, with no real sign of anything much changing (East Belfast notwithstanding)
Compare that with the ability of the IFA to get people from the Nationalist community involved at every level, male and female, young and old, on and off the pitch. And that's while up against the counter attraction of the FAI, for which the GAA has no equivalent.
So never mind a few Carlow boys acting the maggot, this is the real "elephant in the room".
The IFA are making genuine strides for which I applaud them . Given the changing demographics, It's in their interest to promote interest and affinity amongst the "Catholic " community, I sense the IFA and many NÍ supporters are genuinely ashamed around the Neil Lennon, Celtic issue and embarrassed around partisan flags , and GTSQ as opposed to a unique anthem like Scotland snd Wales .
To be fair though , if a Catholic decides to play for Ní , it's public knowledge and nobody on the nationalist side bats an eye. However for Protestants playing the GAA , some would fear a backlash within elements of their own community. I think unionists politicians fostering Antagonism or a begrudging attitude towards the GAA suits a hard unionist agenda that continues to denigrate anything Irish, and makes it a more difficult decision for unionists to join the GAA . Keeping unionists numbers down in the GAA , suits some unionists to portray it as sectarian . Contentious Anthems and naming around sports on this island needs exploration and with goodwill there'll be workable solutions Acceptance that it's a two way street for both the GAA and the IFA is a good starting point .
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:54:34 PM
Compare that with the ability of the IFA to get people from the Nationalist community involved at every level, male and female, young and old, on and off the pitch. And that's while up against the counter attraction of the FAI, for which the GAA has no equivalent.
So never mind a few Carlow boys acting the maggot, this is the real "elephant in the room".
A very well done on getting people to play the most popular sport on the planet 😂👍🏼
All the while singing the English national anthem and flying a defunct loyalist flag ::)
Quote from: weareros on February 07, 2022, 05:14:33 PM
Bit of a false analogy that. Kids play soccer all around the globe and IFA (even with their religious Sunday football bans) were never going to stop kids of a nationalist persuasion play the game. Even when former manager and current captain of women's team have asked them to change anthem, they have not budged nor will they. They play soccer inspite of IFa, not because of any particular moves to make a nationalist feel more welcome.
Kids having a kickabout is one thing. But clubs in exclusively Nationalist area having IFA-affiliated teams, playing in completely mixed leagues and cups, and routinely supplying players for NI representative teams at all levels is on another scale entirely and has no equivalent anywhere in GAA i9n the six counties.
Which is because for all our undoubted problems and faults etc, soccer in NI, both at official and unofficial levels, has addressed the issue, with ever more impressive results. (Note how few Nationalist players "defect" to the FAI, for instance).
While GAA has failed utterly to achieve anything like that sort of cross-particupation, preferring (as I see it) to ignore the problem, other than when a few token efforts are made when government funding is on offer..
P.S. There is no longer a Sunday ban, while many (most?) of the NI fans I know would happily replace GSTQ with some other anthem. Which itself is only played at international matches, unlike eg GAA games, where the Soldiers Song is meant to be played at every level, on every occasion, I believe. (Open to correction on that last one)
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 07, 2022, 05:14:33 PM
Bit of a false analogy that. Kids play soccer all around the globe and IFA (even with their religious Sunday football bans) were never going to stop kids of a nationalist persuasion play the game. Even when former manager and current captain of women's team have asked them to change anthem, they have not budged nor will they. They play soccer inspite of IFa, not because of any particular moves to make a nationalist feel more welcome.
Kids having a kickabout is one thing. But clubs in exclusively Nationalist area having IFA-affiliated teams, playing in completely mixed leagues and cups, and routinely supplying players for NI representative teams at all levels is on another scale entirely and has no equivalent anywhere in GAA i9n the six counties.
Which is because for all our undoubted problems and faults etc, soccer in NI, both at official and unofficial levels, has addressed the issue, with ever more impressive results. (Note how few Nationalist players "defect" to the FAI, for instance).
While GAA has failed utterly to achieve anything like that sort of cross-particupation, preferring (as I see it) to ignore the problem, other than when a few token efforts are made when government funding is on offer..
P.S. There is no longer a Sunday ban, while many (most?) of the NI fans I know would happily replace GSTQ with some other anthem. Which itself is only played at international matches, unlike eg GAA games, where the Soldiers Song is meant to be played at every level, on every occasion, I believe. (Open to correction on that last one)
I know there's no longer a ban. Point is nationalists still played for NI even when the IFA was the sporting wing of the Free Presbyterian Church and sectarianism was rampant in terraces. It's a global game and it is ridiculous giving the IFA credit. Also I saw recent polls with NI supporters saying they are not willing to have a more neutral anthem. Will try and find.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 07, 2022, 05:14:33 PM
Bit of a false analogy that. Kids play soccer all around the globe and IFA (even with their religious Sunday football bans) were never going to stop kids of a nationalist persuasion play the game. Even when former manager and current captain of women's team have asked them to change anthem, they have not budged nor will they. They play soccer inspite of IFa, not because of any particular moves to make a nationalist feel more welcome.
Kids having a kickabout is one thing. But clubs in exclusively Nationalist area having IFA-affiliated teams, playing in completely mixed leagues and cups, and routinely supplying players for NI representative teams at all levels is on another scale entirely and has no equivalent anywhere in GAA i9n the six counties.
Which is because for all our undoubted problems and faults etc, soccer in NI, both at official and unofficial levels, has addressed the issue, with ever more impressive results. (Note how few Nationalist players "defect" to the FAI, for instance).
While GAA has failed utterly to achieve anything like that sort of cross-particupation, preferring (as I see it) to ignore the problem, other than when a few token efforts are made when government funding is on offer..
P.S. There is no longer a Sunday ban, while many (most?) of the NI fans I know would happily replace GSTQ with some other anthem. Which itself is only played at international matches, unlike eg GAA games, where the Soldiers Song is meant to be played at every level, on every occasion, I believe. (Open to correction on that last one)
Correction provided : anthem is played at a tiny percentage of GAA matches. A false narrative around widespread playing of the anthem at GAA activity is An example of a common misconception , or deliberately misleading narrative around the GAA by those with a blinkered anti-GAA agenda.
The IFA decided in their wisdom , that a large portion of their allocation of sports funding package for GAA/soccer/rugby would be channelled into Grass roots. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying that the IFA should be congratulated for using public money to support grass roots football clubs and schools in nationalist areas? The GAA distributes it's developiment money in clubs throughout NI regardless of location. They are delighted to go in to integrated and state schools and though we have many members who attend those schools , the enthusiasm to welcome GAA in those schools is not always there. This is a throwback to my original point, many people and organisations are afraid to embrace the GAA because of overt/covert antagonism , and/or promotion of a false narrative of the GAA from within unionism. The IFA does not experience the same antagonism from within nationalism , despite an unwelcoming history around partisan flags, anthems and more serious issues.
Hopefully that makes sense EG, and helps alter your opinion of the GAA.
Also "Sectarian abuse from the free staters" is wrong. I didn't abuse anyone.
"Some" or "certain" but not "the".
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2022, 06:23:50 PM
Also "Sectarian abuse from the free staters" is wrong. I didn't abuse anyone.
"Some" or "certain" but not "the".
Agree, a tiny percentage of people seafoid , and anyway you're not a free stater 😜
The term free state not disappear yrs ago.?
Welcome to GAAboard, WildWeasel.
Nordies invented sledging as a way to rile opponents by spouting all sorts of sh1te at them.
Now it's coming back to bite them ;D what goes round comes round etc.
Mind you the Scallion aters don't seem to be too bright as a Down Hurley team would be mainly Irish Catholics.
Carlow hurlers have form on this. A nasty bunch.
Quote from: Pub Bore on February 08, 2022, 10:00:05 AM
Carlow hurlers have form on this. A nasty bunch.
It would be about the only thing carlow hurlers have form in :P
Quote from: Rossfan on February 08, 2022, 08:37:43 AM
Nordies invented sledging as a way to rile opponents by spouting all sorts of sh1te at them.
Now it's coming back to bite them ;D what goes round comes round etc.
Mind you the Scallion aters don't seem to be too bright as a Down Hurley team would be mainly Irish Catholics.
The shape of this post. 😂
Quote from: Rossfan on February 08, 2022, 08:37:43 AM
Nordies invented sledging as a way to rile opponents by spouting all sorts of sh1te at them.
Now it's coming back to bite them ;D what goes round comes round etc.
Mind you the Scallion aters don't seem to be too bright as a Down Hurley team would be mainly Irish Catholics.
Not necessarily, the hurling strongholds of Down have quite a few mixed marriages as can be gathered from the list of player names.
I'm not sure how the Carlow neanderthals managed to figure this out though.
Quote from: blanketattack on February 08, 2022, 02:05:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 08, 2022, 08:37:43 AM
Nordies invented sledging as a way to rile opponents by spouting all sorts of sh1te at them.
Now it's coming back to bite them ;D what goes round comes round etc.
Mind you the Scallion aters don't seem to be too bright as a Down Hurley team would be mainly Irish Catholics.
Not necessarily, the hurling strongholds of Down have quite a few mixed marriages as can be gathered from the list of player names.
I'm not sure how the Carlow neanderthals managed to figure this out though.
Ah but houl on...
EG said this wasn't the case.
And let's face it, if there's anyone here who would have an intimate knowledge of the religious affiliations of the Down Senior Hurling squad, it would be him. ::)
This is a non-story with the loyalist newspapers in the north trying to give it legs.
Quote from: Orior on February 08, 2022, 03:16:30 PM
This is a non-story with the loyalist newspapers in the north trying to give it legs.
It's hardly a non story, it's a ridiculous thing to try and slag someone playing GAA about and it's far from an isolated thing.
I don't know which is worse from Carlow people, recreating a scene from Weekend at Bernie's or calling Catholics brits and prods!?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2022, 03:55:05 PM
I don't know which is worse from Carlow people, recreating a scene from Weekend at Bernie's or calling Catholics brits and prods!?
Probably the worst thing is that an intercounty team from the next county to Kilkenny were happy to be beaten by a crowd of loyalists.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2022, 03:55:05 PM
I don't know which is worse from Carlow people, recreating a scene from Weekend at Bernie's or calling Catholics brits and prods!?
That's just a sign of ignorance.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 08, 2022, 03:16:30 PM
This is a non-story with the loyalist newspapers in the north trying to give it legs.
It's hardly a non story, it's a ridiculous thing to try and slag someone playing GAA about and it's far from an isolated thing.
this is laughable, sledging to gain an advantage has been going on in every sport for decades and nordies crying about it shows how fragile they really are
pathetic ::)
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
Time to give carlow back to England.
Ironically, I think Carlow was one of, if not the, most planted counties in Ireland - outside Ulster obviously!
Quote from: Tubberman on February 08, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Ironically, I think Carlow was one of, if not the, most planted counties in Ireland - outside Ulster obviously!
Would King's county and Queen's county not have had more blow ins ? Laoislad might be able to help.
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Really looking forward to EGs rebuttal lol
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2022, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 08, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Ironically, I think Carlow was one of, if not the, most planted counties in Ireland - outside Ulster obviously!
Would King's county and Queen's county not have had more blow ins ? Laoislad might be able to help.
That reminds me of an online computer peripherals store from about 15 years ago, can't remember it's name but it was similar to lots of others around that time e.g. jungle.com, saverstore.com, Watford Electronics, anyway, when you selected Ireland as your country it has a drop-down list pre-populated for County that had 3 ones with slashes:
Derry/Londonderry
Queens County/Laois
Kings County/Offaly
Wish I'd taken a screenshot, but looking back it seems bizarre.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2022, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 08, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Ironically, I think Carlow was one of, if not the, most planted counties in Ireland - outside Ulster obviously!
Would King's county and Queen's county not have had more blow ins ? Laoislad might be able to help.
They're quare posh in Carla'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Carlow#Demographics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Carlow#Demographics)
Carlow was at the epicentre of the estates period of the late-18th and 19th centuries, and the county had a greater number of country houses and demesnes per hectare than any other rural county in Ireland.[60] These "Big Houses" and their occupants dominated the economic and political landscape until the turn of the 20th century. Although the term was never applied at the time, historian Jimmy O'Toole refers to Carlow as "the most gentrified county in Ireland" due to the concentration of aristocratic families and their grand estates within its borders.[61]
19th-century Lisnavagh House, a typical Anglo-Irish big house
A valuation survey undertaken in 1876 revealed that just 21 families owned 34,031 ha (84,090 acres) – almost 40% of the entire county.[62] Although not as prevalent as in other counties, absenteeism by the landholding class in Carlow was still common. Towards the end of the 19th century, anger at high-rents and the widespread eviction of tenant farmers in Ireland resulted in the Land War (1879–1882) and the formation of the Irish National Land League led by Charles Stewart Parnell, which heralded the end of the estates period.[63]
While as many as 300 Big Houses across Ireland were burned down during the revolutionary period,[64] Carlow was left relatively untouched, losing just three Big Houses between 1919 and 1923, two of which were unoccupied. Éamon de Valera was against such burnings and addressed supporters at the gates of Browne's Hill House in January 1923, stating that "nothing was to be achieved by the burning or damaging of homes, big or small...raid for arms, yes, but leave them as they found them".[65]
Some of the most prominent Big Houses are currently in public ownership, such as Altamont House, Oak Park and Duckett's Grove. Several historically significant Big Houses such as Borris House, Huntington Castle and Dunleckney Manor are privately owned but open to tours and visitors at certain times of year. The majority of the surviving Big Houses within the county are in use as either private residences or hotels, while a small number have been abandoned and are in a derelict state.[66]
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 08, 2022, 03:16:30 PM
This is a non-story with the loyalist newspapers in the north trying to give it legs.
It's hardly a non story, it's a ridiculous thing to try and slag someone playing GAA about and it's far from an isolated thing.
Yes it is ridiculous, should be reported and action taken, but how does this 'brit sledging/shaming' cross the line to be labelled sectarian abuse?
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholoc school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholoc school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
Not sure this is the forum to be discussing where individuals went to school, but since you asked Michaelg, it's a great opportunity to enlighten the likes of yourself and EG about the realities of GAA, rather than a conveniently false narrative.
Most GAA players are introduced to the GAA at their local GAA club of which there are ~50 in County Down. Young players develop an interest either through family or friends, as it's certainly not promoted in the media in the North in the same way as soccer or rugby, though Thankfully we've moved on somewhat from the classic BBC sports bulletin "and finally GAA" afterthoughts. In our club we have several players who did/do not attend GAA schools . In some cases were bullied for playing GAA, and there has never been any interest in offering GAA sports or indeed even recognise that they exist. In the meantime , "GAA schools" are promoting soccer, rugby and other sports, and rightly so.
The relegation of Irish culture in state and even integrated schools, with the failure to put GAA on an equal footing, must be addressed if we are to get to an equal shared future , regardless of future constitutional arrangements. The continued resistance to an Irish language act is probably the clearest example of a continued reluctance by unionism and the "establishment" to respect Irish identity on an equal footing . That's the "elephant in the room".
Thankfully many individuals from a unionist background , are well ahead of unionists politicians and the state/integrated education sector , in embracing and enjoying GAA.
Quote from: 6th sam on February 09, 2022, 10:13:13 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholoc school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
Not sure this is the forum to be discussing where individuals went to school, but since you asked Michaelg, it's a great opportunity to enlighten the likes of yourself and EG about the realities of GAA, rather than a conveniently false narrative.
Most GAA players are introduced to the GAA at their local GAA club of which there are ~50 in County Down. Young players develop an interest either through family or friends, as it's certainly not promoted in the media in the North in the same way as soccer or rugby, though Thankfully we've moved on somewhat from the classic BBC sports bulletin "and finally GAA" afterthoughts. In our club we have several players who did/do not attend GAA schools . In some cases were bullied for playing GAA, and there has never been any interest in offering GAA sports or indeed even recognise that they exist. In the meantime , "GAA schools" are promoting soccer, rugby and other sports, and rightly so.
The relegation of Irish culture in state and even integrated schools, with the failure to put GAA on an equal footing, must be addressed if we are to get to an equal shared future , regardless of future constitutional arrangements. The continued resistance to an Irish language act is probably the clearest example of a continued reluctance by unionism and the "establishment" to respect Irish identity on an equal footing . That's the "elephant in the room".
Thankfully many individuals from a unionist background , are well ahead of unionists politicians and the state/integrated education sector , in embracing and enjoying GAA.
The realities of GAA, as you put it, are no real different to other amateur sports in NI where young players, and people new to a sport, are coached and encouraged by volunteers involved at grassroots level.
Whilst I agree that GAA used to get short shrift in local sports round-ups etc, this has not been the case for many years. Despite the increased visibility and coverage, the numbers of Unionist people participating in GAA remains low. The example of the Down All Irelenad winner given earlier in the thread, as far as I am aware, was from a 'mixed marriage' who came from a predominantly Nationalist area where he would have had exposure to the game in the area. That was why I was wondering how the young fella referred to in the article began playing hurling, and became involved initially in GAA.
Finally, there are more imprtant things to resolve in this place than ensuring that GAA is put on an equal footing in all of our schools. I like a wide variety of sports myself, and do not expect them all to be promoted equally in all schools. If people are so concerned about what sports are being offered, then this is something that can be considered when choosing which is the right school for them. Personally, the quality of teaching and learning and pastoral care, would be more important to me when deciding where to send a child to school.
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
There is a bit of both tbh. This stuff here should be stamped out.
One thing that annoys me with the sheer bigotry of it is when I read social media threads and there are neanderthals who basically call the GAA a terrorist organisation. I have been involved from the age of 5 and yes there is an Irish element to it but there has never been any form of anything sectarian to it.
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 11:37:47 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 09, 2022, 10:13:13 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholoc school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
Not sure this is the forum to be discussing where individuals went to school, but since you asked Michaelg, it's a great opportunity to enlighten the likes of yourself and EG about the realities of GAA, rather than a conveniently false narrative.
Most GAA players are introduced to the GAA at their local GAA club of which there are ~50 in County Down. Young players develop an interest either through family or friends, as it's certainly not promoted in the media in the North in the same way as soccer or rugby, though Thankfully we've moved on somewhat from the classic BBC sports bulletin "and finally GAA" afterthoughts. In our club we have several players who did/do not attend GAA schools . In some cases were bullied for playing GAA, and there has never been any interest in offering GAA sports or indeed even recognise that they exist. In the meantime , "GAA schools" are promoting soccer, rugby and other sports, and rightly so.
The relegation of Irish culture in state and even integrated schools, with the failure to put GAA on an equal footing, must be addressed if we are to get to an equal shared future , regardless of future constitutional arrangements. The continued resistance to an Irish language act is probably the clearest example of a continued reluctance by unionism and the "establishment" to respect Irish identity on an equal footing . That's the "elephant in the room".
Thankfully many individuals from a unionist background , are well ahead of unionists politicians and the state/integrated education sector , in embracing and enjoying GAA.
The realities of GAA, as you put it, are no real different to other amateur sports in NI where young players, and people new to a sport, are coached and encouraged by volunteers involved at grassroots level.
Whilst I agree that GAA used to get short shrift in local sports round-ups etc, this has not been the case for many years. Despite the increased visibility and coverage, the numbers of Unionist people participating in GAA remains low. The example of the Down All Irelenad winner given earlier in the thread, as far as I am aware, was from a 'mixed marriage' who came from a predominantly Nationalist area where he would have had exposure to the game in the area. That was why I was wondering how the young fella referred to in the article began playing hurling, and became involved initially in GAA.
Finally, there are more imprtant things to resolve in this place than ensuring that GAA is put on an equal footing in all of our schools. I like a wide variety of sports myself, and do not expect them all to be promoted equally in all schools. If people are so concerned about what sports are being offered, then this is something that can be considered when choosing which is the right school for them. Personally, the quality of teaching and learning and pastoral care, would be more important to me when deciding where to send a child to school.
[/b][/b][/b]
Totally agree on this, michaelg, parents will choose schools in the basis of several factors, Sport is not a major factor in that decision for most parents. I also agree that there are more important things to resolve than school sports choice, but it's another aspect of respect for all and parity of esteem . For me poverty, health, education and the economy are far more important , but sport and parity of scheme have an effect in these areas, in terms of getting us to a better place ie a vibrant, thriving, educated , respectful and healthy society.
I genuinely value your opinion michaelg, and would be interested to know if you are like all unionists I know personally , that neither understand nor care about " the protocol". I suspect the tiny 2.5% of the population that signed the protocol petition are easily led hardliners, most likely from ghettoised hard unionist communities, who are vulnerable to the Bryson/Allister/Hoey narrative. The unionists I know, are more interested in real issues , rightly want their Britishness respected, but are embarrassed by the protocol bigots. DUP and their sidekicks promoted brexit, and having used their majority position to bully their way for years, are now shocked to find that they are not only a tiny minority in Europe, they're a tiny minority in the UK, on this island, and as per the protocol petition , even a minority in NI. We need to sideline these dinosaurs for once and for all. Reasonable unionists like yourself Michaelg are the key to this, and consigning the DUP ethos to history will win you many allies across the board. Over to you.
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholic school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
That particular fella went to the Red High in Downpatrick, then onto Jordanstown so I get where you're coming from, but he's as much a protestant as a catholic in "cultural" terms and the reason I mentioned the Da is that he's proud of his roots and absolutely no one in the club gives a flying fúck that's he's a prod from East Belfast.
There's possibly another lad on the panel who went to Regent House the former alma mater of the legendary Blair Mayne and hurling hotbed, he's U20, so might be training with the seniors but not making the panel, is on an Ulster Rugby development squad, the Dad is protestant, him mum is my cousin who like me has a Granny from Republican Portavogie, the most disgusting thing about it is that he plays for Ballycran ;D.
We've a lad also in our club going to Regent currently, was invited to the Down U17 hurling trials, he just hadn't the time to go between football and schools rugby but he'll play with the club, protestant background, came at 10 years of age as he was mates with lads who did play, loved it, his mum and dad went with us to Cork for a National Feile and she thanked me for how welcome we'd made her and her family as she was a protestant from Cloughey and was a bit fearful at the start when her son told her he wanted to go hurling with his mates.
No one gives a shit, they genuinely don't and like all things good about the GAA, outreach will happen at the local community level where the GAA is at its strongest, it's so Cliché but it's so true.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 10, 2022, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholic school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
That particular fella went to the Red High in Downpatrick, then onto Jordanstown so I get where you're coming from, but he's as much a protestant as a catholic in "cultural" terms and the reason I mentioned the Da is that he's proud of his roots and absolutely no one in the club gives a flying fúck that's he's a prod from East Belfast.
There's possibly another lad on the panel who went to Regent House the former alma mater of the legendary Blair Mayne and hurling hotbed, he's U20, so might be training with the seniors but not making the panel, is on an Ulster Rugby development squad, the Dad is protestant, him mum is my cousin who like me has a Granny from Republican Portavogie, the most disgusting thing about it is that he plays for Ballycran ;D.
We've a lad also in our club going to Regent currently, was invited to the Down U17 hurling trials, he just hadn't the time to go between football and schools rugby but he'll play with the club, protestant background, came at 10 years of age as he was mates with lads who did play, loved it, his mum and dad went with us to Cork for a National Feile and she thanked me for how welcome we'd made her and her family as she was a protestant from Cloughey and was a bit fearful at the start when her son told her he wanted to go hurling with his mates.
No one gives a shit, they genuinely don't and like all things good about the GAA, outreach will happen at the local community level where the GAA is at its strongest, it's so Cliché but it's so true.
Honestly heart warming to read stories like that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2022, 08:45:52 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
There is a bit of both tbh. This stuff here should be stamped out.
One thing that annoys me with the sheer bigotry of it is when I read social media threads and there are neanderthals who basically call the GAA a terrorist organisation. I have been involved from the age of 5 and yes there is an Irish element to it but there has never been any form of anything sectarian to it.
To me, naming GAA Clubs and GAA competitions after members of the provisional IRA isn't inclusive and isn't welcoming to other sides of the community. Same for holding commemoration events to provisional IRA members at GAA grounds.
Quote from: blanketattack on February 10, 2022, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2022, 08:45:52 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
There is a bit of both tbh. This stuff here should be stamped out.
One thing that annoys me with the sheer bigotry of it is when I read social media threads and there are neanderthals who basically call the GAA a terrorist organisation. I have been involved from the age of 5 and yes there is an Irish element to it but there has never been any form of anything sectarian to it.
To me, naming GAA Clubs and GAA competitions after members of the provisional IRA isn't inclusive and isn't welcoming to other sides of the community. Same for holding commemoration events to provisional IRA members at GAA grounds.
I would like to hear your critique of the naming of Sands McSwineys GAA club in Scotland.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 10, 2022, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholic school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
That particular fella went to the Red High in Downpatrick, then onto Jordanstown so I get where you're coming from, but he's as much a protestant as a catholic in "cultural" terms and the reason I mentioned the Da is that he's proud of his roots and absolutely no one in the club gives a flying fúck that's he's a prod from East Belfast.
There's possibly another lad on the panel who went to Regent House the former alma mater of the legendary Blair Mayne and hurling hotbed, he's U20, so might be training with the seniors but not making the panel, is on an Ulster Rugby development squad, the Dad is protestant, him mum is my cousin who like me has a Granny from Republican Portavogie, the most disgusting thing about it is that he plays for Ballycran ;D.
We've a lad also in our club going to Regent currently, was invited to the Down U17 hurling trials, he just hadn't the time to go between football and schools rugby but he'll play with the club, protestant background, came at 10 years of age as he was mates with lads who did play, loved it, his mum and dad went with us to Cork for a National Feile and she thanked me for how welcome we'd made her and her family as she was a protestant from Cloughey and was a bit fearful at the start when her son told her he wanted to go hurling with his mates.
No one gives a shit, they genuinely don't and like all things good about the GAA, outreach will happen at the local community level where the GAA is at its strongest, it's so Cliché but it's so true.
Great to hear, thanks for the insight.
NI is hopelessly polarised but taken out of that context most people in the South wouldn't care if someone from the North was protestant or even prosedant.
Any unionists I met in London were as good as Irish in the eyes of the locals and easier to talk to than Tans.
Significant numbers in the north don't care either seafoid. You only hear about the ones that do.
Quote from: seafoid on February 10, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
NI is hopelessly polarised but taken out of that context most people in the South wouldn't care if someone from the North was protestant or even prosedant.
Any unionists I met in London were as good as Irish in the eyes of the locals and easier to talk to than Tans.
Ironically, the whole raison d'etre of this thread was because people from 'the south' were getting their knickers in a serious twist about exactly that.
Quote from: Franko on February 10, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 10, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
NI is hopelessly polarised but taken out of that context most people in the South wouldn't care if someone from the North was protestant or even prosedant.
Any unionists I met in London were as good as Irish in the eyes of the locals and easier to talk to than Tans.
Ironically, the whole raison d'etre of this thread was because people from 'the south' were getting their knickers in a serious twist about exactly that.
I was thinking the same thing when reading that post. Bizarre post by Seafoid.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 01:18:33 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 10, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 10, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
NI is hopelessly polarised but taken out of that context most people in the South wouldn't care if someone from the North was protestant or even prosedant.
Any unionists I met in London were as good as Irish in the eyes of the locals and easier to talk to than Tans.
Ironically, the whole raison d'etre of this thread was because people from 'the south' were getting their knickers in a serious twist about exactly that.
I was thinking the same thing when reading that post. Bizarre post by Seafoid.
To invoke the old RUC line - I do believe it's 'a few rotten apples'.
With the Carlow GAA orchard seeing perhaps the worst of the blight
Quote from: johnnycool on February 10, 2022, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 09, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 09, 2022, 09:01:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on February 08, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2022, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"
In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.
Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.
Or even one.
(I'll leave that thought with you ;))
Shall I correct you on that one?
Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.
With his little emojis and everything. ;D
It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post ;D.
His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.
And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..
Always happy to break down barriers.
Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholic school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach. If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.
That particular fella went to the Red High in Downpatrick, then onto Jordanstown so I get where you're coming from, but he's as much a protestant as a catholic in "cultural" terms and the reason I mentioned the Da is that he's proud of his roots and absolutely no one in the club gives a flying fúck that's he's a prod from East Belfast.
There's possibly another lad on the panel who went to Regent House the former alma mater of the legendary Blair Mayne and hurling hotbed, he's U20, so might be training with the seniors but not making the panel, is on an Ulster Rugby development squad, the Dad is protestant, him mum is my cousin who like me has a Granny from Republican Portavogie, the most disgusting thing about it is that he plays for Ballycran ;D.
We've a lad also in our club going to Regent currently, was invited to the Down U17 hurling trials, he just hadn't the time to go between football and schools rugby but he'll play with the club, protestant background, came at 10 years of age as he was mates with lads who did play, loved it, his mum and dad went with us to Cork for a National Feile and she thanked me for how welcome we'd made her and her family as she was a protestant from Cloughey and was a bit fearful at the start when her son told her he wanted to go hurling with his mates.
No one gives a shit, they genuinely don't and like all things good about the GAA, outreach will happen at the local community level where the GAA is at its strongest, it's so Cliché but it's so true.
Very interesting to read. Kids should get the opportunity to play as many sports as possible, providing of course, they are in a neutral environment where politics and religion are left at the gate - No better way to break down barriers and forge lasting friendships than through playing sport or being involved in a sports club.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 10, 2022, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?
No I don't. Grew up in a place where the nearest GAA club was a few miles away. As I never played GAA at school, or was never invited to go along to said local GAA club, I had very little exposure to GAA. Probally the main reason why I don't follow any local clubs. Also, I play and am involved in a number of other sports clubs, so would not really have the time to develop much of an interest, to be honest. Interesting that for the same reason, many people from working class protestant backgrounds, have little or no interest in rugby.
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 10, 2022, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?
No I don't. Grew up in a place where the nearest GAA club was a few miles away. As I never played GAA at school, or was never invited to go along to said local GAA club, I had very little exposure to GAA. Probally the main reason why I don't follow any local clubs. Also, I play and am involved in a number of other sports clubs, so would not really have the time to develop much of an interest, to be honest. Interesting that for the same reason, many people from working class protestant backgrounds, have little or no interest in rugby.
That's disappointing Michaelg, you really need to get out more😜. I follow my nearest soccer, rugby and cricket clubs, even though I never played any of those sports. I have been welcomed in all 3 clubs , as their members are welcomed in ours. Politics and religion do not come in to it. It literally has no relevance in the day to day running of a GAA club, but it suits a hardline unionist agenda to promote a narrative of the GAA which is inaccurate and insulting.
I would equate the GAA with its Irish ethos to organisations with a British ethos. There are nationalists/republicans who are members of Royal County Down, watch their sons in Windsor Park, or attend the Royal Victoria hospital😂, and don't blink an eye. I imagine Unionists who play or follow GAA are similar. It's genuinely is no big deal, and I would question the agenda of those who try to make it one.
Quote from: 6th sam on February 10, 2022, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 10, 2022, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: michaelg on February 10, 2022, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 12:08:15 AM
Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.
The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community. Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.
Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?
No I don't. Grew up in a place where the nearest GAA club was a few miles away. As I never played GAA at school, or was never invited to go along to said local GAA club, I had very little exposure to GAA. Probally the main reason why I don't follow any local clubs. Also, I play and am involved in a number of other sports clubs, so would not really have the time to develop much of an interest, to be honest. Interesting that for the same reason, many people from working class protestant backgrounds, have little or no interest in rugby.
That's disappointing Michaelg, you really need to get out more😜. I follow my nearest soccer, rugby and cricket clubs, even though I never played any of those sports. I have been welcomed in all 3 clubs , as their members are welcomed in ours. Politics and religion do not come in to it. It literally has no relevance in the day to day running of a GAA club, but it suits a hardline unionist agenda to promote a narrative of the GAA which is inaccurate and insulting.
I would equate the GAA with its Irish ethos to organisations with a British ethos. There are nationalists/republicans who are members of Royal County Down, watch their sons in Windsor Park, or attend the Royal Victoria hospital😂, and don't blink an eye. I imagine Unionists who play or follow GAA are similar. It's genuinely is no big deal, and I would question the agenda of those who try to make it one.
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 07:32:25 PM
...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?
michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).
is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 07:32:25 PM
...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?
michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).
is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?
So that does make it alright then? It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway. I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an "inaccurate and insulting picture", when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 10:10:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 07:32:25 PM
...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?
michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).
is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?
So that does make it alright then? It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway. I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an inaccurate picture, when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.
I was merely pointing out that you can take ("highlight") any (sporting) organisation, literally, and extract a specific example to suit any particular agenda, but therein lies the road to stasis.
There's no benefit in focusing on the specifics as they apply to any locality, particularly as it relates to the period we have not long come through, but it really would be preferable to focus on the positive aspects of what might lie ahead, I'd say. Yes, there will be awkward situations, but as has been repeated here
ad nauseam, no one will be turned away from the door of a GAA club on the basis of caste, colour, creed or politics.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2022, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 10:10:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 23, 2022, 07:32:25 PM
...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?
michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).
is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?
So that does make it alright then? It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway. I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an inaccurate picture, when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.
I was merely pointing out that you can take ("highlight") any (sporting) organisation, literally, and extract a specific example to suit any particular agenda, but therein lies the road to stasis.
There's no benefit in focusing on the specifics as they apply to any locality, particularly as it relates to the period we have not long come through, but it really would be preferable to focus on the positive aspects of what might lie ahead, I'd say. Yes, there will be awkward situations, but as has been repeated here ad nauseam, no one will be turned away from the door of a GAA club on the basis of caste, colour, creed or politics.
But that wasn't the point. Last week a claim was made the GAA don't do politics. Then this week happened.
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
But unless I'm mistaken your not a nationlist. In many nationists views they are like for like. You may not agree with that view but that's irrelevant if you are genuinely trying to attract nationist interest as that is the view held by many of us.
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
But the poppy doesn't just commemorate dead of two world wars, it commemorates all British soldiers killed in colonial settings too. Along with UDR members, who were terrorists in the eyes of the nationalist people. Sorry, but I'd rather not commemorate scum like Harris Boyle and Wesley Somerville, thank you very much. Or the Black and Tans and Auxilliaries.
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.
So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.
So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.
My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds. Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.
So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.
My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds. Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.
Whatever about your point yesterday, your point today was that "Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds". If you are making that statement, and are so clearly very keen to criticise the GAA for breaching that ideal, then it's a bit overly convenient to at the same time decide you are "not really interested" in talking about when the IFA breach the ideal.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:10:18 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.
So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.
My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds. Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.
Whatever about your point yesterday, your point today was that "Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds". If you are making that statement, and are so clearly very keen to criticise the GAA for breaching that ideal, then it's a bit overly convenient to at the same time decide you are "not really interested" in talking about when the IFA breach the ideal.
The statement that are you referring to to was in direct response to a question you asked me. Have a nice evening.
michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.
Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.
Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix
But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 09:41:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.
Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix
But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.
He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.
Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.
The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.
I'm not getting into a poppy argument either ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 10:18:51 AM
He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.
Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.
The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.
I'm not getting into a poppy argument either ;)
Funny, Evil Genius and Michaelg have both been criticising the Clonoe commemoration too, but neither of them wanted to get into the poppy debate either, which I thought was a bit convenient.
The poppy mightn't be an issue for you, and is "just a charity" in your eyes. The problem in the north of Ireland is that the people who benefit from the funds of this charity include British soldiers who served here and you don't need me to remind you that this isn't England, and that the British Army's record in Ireland is one of murder, torture, harassment, intimidation and brutality. That being the case, the poppy is undeniably a divisive, contentious and politically charged symbol here. That fact doesn't change just because poppies don't bother you. So either both commemorations are political and shouldn't happen in sports grounds, or else all political commemorations in sports grounds are fair game. Selective condemnation is just meaningless.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 10:18:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 09:41:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.
Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix
But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.
He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.
Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.
The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.
I'm not getting into a poppy argument either ;)
I don't think either you, EG, or MichaelG could stand over a claim that the poppy is not political in NI. If you were making that claim, then I'd have to say you are being intentionally disingenuous or else extremely ignorant. Therefore he can't possible be correct in his assertions regarding political statements and sport. If he was claiming neither had any place in sport, then yes you could argue that he is correct. Or alternatively that both have their place and people should be tolerable to other peoples views then again you could make an argument that he's correct. As both these are opinions and consistent.
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.
So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.
The FAI? You sure?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
I never defended the decision of Clonoe. I think it should have been a separate community memorial rather than through the GAA club.
I'm not surprised you disagree with my view on the poppy tbh....
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:18:01 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
I never defended the decision of Clonoe. I think it should have been a separate community memorial rather than through the GAA club.
I'm not surprised you disagree with my view on the poppy tbh....
I also disagree as in agree with you.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
You're the one defending the poppy promotion by the IFA but condemning the Clonoe memorial. How it that
not hypocritical if you're saying that the vice versa is?
Bottom line is:
Either politically contentious symbols be banned by all sports or none.
Those who jump up and down when the GAA are seen to breach that ideal, never EVER have anything to say about poppies and GSTQ at Windsor Park, for instance. That tells me their problem isn't politics in sport. It's about furthering their own political bias using sport. Ironic.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 26, 2022, 08:30:11 AM
Bottom line is:
Either politically contentious symbols be banned by all sports or none.
Those who jump up and down when the GAA are seen to breach that ideal, never EVER have anything to say about poppies and GSTQ at Windsor Park, for instance. That tells me their problem isn't politics in sport. It's about furthering their own political bias using sport. Ironic.
So should the Soldiers Somg not be played at the Aviva for rugby games too?
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
You know it's called Amhrán na bhFiann, Michael? Why the need to translate it?
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 26, 2022, 07:42:02 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
You're the one defending the poppy promotion by the IFA but condemning the Clonoe memorial. How it that not hypocritical if you're saying that the vice versa is?
I didn't defend the poppy. I sighed at the whataboutery
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.
You are correct on both points. Regarding the first point, afaik, they used to play GSTQ at internationals in Belfast before there was opposition from a number of players. The Dirge, as you call it, is grand and helps unify the fans at the ground as everyone sings along.
Don't think you are allowed to play 2 home anthems in football. Would be good if this was allowed.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 26, 2022, 01:46:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 26, 2022, 07:42:02 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 25, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:59 PM
I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.
I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.
If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere
I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently. We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.
I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?
You're the one defending the poppy promotion by the IFA but condemning the Clonoe memorial. How it that not hypocritical if you're saying that the vice versa is?
I didn't defend the poppy. I sighed at the whataboutery
Re-read my post you replied to there. I didn't say you defended the poppy. I said you are defending the IFA's promotion of it. Which is fair enough if that's your view. But just don't then come along spouting outrage about political symbols in Clonoe and calling for them to be sanctioned.
Quote from: michaelg on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 24, 2022, 09:43:32 AM
michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?
Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?
Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds. I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like. If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.
In my book a republican volunteer would be a close equivalent of an ANC soldier/activist, the ANC being a military/political movement which came about after civil rights campaigns were heavily suppressed and shot off the streets in an apartheid state.
A uvf/udr member would be a more crude equivalent of a dead British soldier, RUC, UDR, any members of the British state terror machine.
.
The poppy is also about celebrating british imperialism in Ireland as well as slavery/racism/sadistic cruelty and resource rape as was evidenced in Africa and the Far East.
In current state of affairs in NI where intolerance, bigotry is being shouted out at megaphone volume by deranged Unionists, it is indeed strange that you choose to focus on one GAA club as a justification for remaining blinkered and prejudiced.
Yes, the GAA club is no place for a military memorial. The GAA has just a bit to go to achieve a respectful balance between sport, culture and history, whereas large elements of the Unionist community are mired deep in actively propagating bigotry and prejudice.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.
And if Ireland ever play a home game in Belfast they'd have to play GSTQ as well as Irelands dirge.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.
And if Ireland ever play a home game in Belfast they'd have to play GSTQ as well as Irelands dirge.
I went to Ravenhill to watch them play Italy before the 07 world cup and they didn't play GSTQ. Few unionist politicians weren't happy after
They deemed it an away game or something if I recall it rightly?
I see Kenny Archer was reporting today more 26-county skulduggery from the Deise at Corrigan Park yesterday..
Yep, and the player was easily identified and many heard what he said.
Just give each player a small microphone and recording device and all sledging would end.
Quote from: barnish oggie on February 28, 2022, 02:44:01 PM
Yep, and the player was easily identified and many heard what he said.
Won't be the first time there's lads abused with sectarian undertones in Corrigan park ;)
I really don't get why it's a big deal to be honest?
What's the difference in kicking a wide, or missing a free and your marker letting you know about it 'your shite etc' and being called British or anything else?
I'd say i (or my team mates) heard it 90% of the times we played a southern team and it was honestly water off a ducks back, didn't bother me in the slightest. The verbals in the local club derby's would cut a bit deeper.
Quote from: toby47 on February 28, 2022, 03:38:40 PM
I really don't get why it's a big deal to be honest?
What's the difference in kicking a wide, or missing a free and your marker letting you know about it 'your shite etc' and being called British or anything else?
I'd say i (or my team mates) heard it 90% of the times we played a southern team and it was honestly water off a ducks back, didn't bother me in the slightest. The verbals in the local club derby's would cut a bit deeper.
i think it comes down to being viewed as less Irish than those who are saying it, which something a lot of us feel passionately about.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 26, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2022, 09:38:04 AM
What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.
It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.
As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.
And if Ireland ever play a home game in Belfast they'd have to play GSTQ as well as Irelands dirge.
They wouldn't though. That's just something that people, mainly unionists, made up to be angry.