Castlederg

[Applesisapples]

To all the PUL apologists on this board: It would appear that I was wrong that the PUL were being dragged kicking and screaming towards equality...they aren't they have now managed to break free and hurtle backwards to the 1930's at least! Talking about IRA violence in isolation as most of you do is the real simplistic opinion on this thread. Equality would mean recognition of the Irish Language, Flag, GAA culture etc. Where is equality on these issues? As I have stated before I don't see the point in marching, but where is the equality in the PUL & OO marching through our town centres, whether the towns are nationalist, unionist or shared but at the same time blocking nationalists doing like wise. It remains an unpalatable fact that a great many in the PUL community only want a shared unionist future. Just listen to the dancing on a pinhead from Unionist Politicians regarding the denunciation of loyalist violence. Hypocrites it would appear that only nationalist violence cannot be justified.

The over-riding sentiment of all that is that you don't like the unionists marching through any town centres but seem fit to apolgise for it when our side do it. If you're opposed to marching then going out marching is a pretty poor way of combating it.

No actually I don't see the point of marches of a political or sectarian nature. I was simply pointing up the fact that it is hypocritical to insist that the OO can march where they like glorifying sectarianism and anti-catholic views and on the other hand object to republicans doing the same. I also pointed out the silence and selective condemnation when it comes to PUL inspired violence. I would prefer to see no marches but that is probably unrealistic. The overall point I am making is that the PUL community has not grasped what equality or parity of esteem looks like and when faced with a challenge the DUP don't show leadership but pander to the lowest common denominator. Their version of parity is still very much red white in blue in colour. If we are to move on mutual respect for all symbols, cultures and traditions is a must. I just don't see that move coming from Unionism. Critical as I am of SF they do seem to be the voice of reason. I think the SF leadership would have liked to have kept the Castlederg march in Galbally but most likely gave in to local sentiment...I think elements of the DUP made it impossible for SF to back down.

Who is insisting that the OO can march where they like? Find me one quote of that anywhere in here!

You haven't heard the old "Queen's Highway" line...look back at any of Harold Gracey's pronouncements during Drumcree and you will find it repeated at every standoff. It is a fact that the OO insist on their right to parade.

[Applesisapples]

To all the PUL apologists on this board: It would appear that I was wrong that the PUL were being dragged kicking and screaming towards equality...they aren't they have now managed to break free and hurtle backwards to the 1930's at least! Talking about IRA violence in isolation as most of you do is the real simplistic opinion on this thread. Equality would mean recognition of the Irish Language, Flag, GAA culture etc. Where is equality on these issues? As I have stated before I don't see the point in marching, but where is the equality in the PUL & OO marching through our town centres, whether the towns are nationalist, unionist or shared but at the same time blocking nationalists doing like wise. It remains an unpalatable fact that a great many in the PUL community only want a shared unionist future. Just listen to the dancing on a pinhead from Unionist Politicians regarding the denunciation of loyalist violence. Hypocrites it would appear that only nationalist violence cannot be justified.

What's the problem with recognition of the GAA? Isn't Casement getting £60m from Westminster? How many GAA grounds have had financial assistance from Sport NI? What more do you want?

Yes the GAA is recognized officially, but it is not accepted by a significant number of the PUL community as a bon-a-fide sporting and cultural body.

[johnneycool]

When you get a glimpse at the hearts and minds of the PUL do you see a people 'willing' to concede anything to anyone? I don't.

Very broad brush - I have plenty of friends / work colleagues in the PU community (if not the L!) that are very decent and reasonable people who would have no time for inequality of the CNR community. If we're talking about the kind of lads highlighted on 'Loyalists Against Democracy', yes, I agree, they wouldn't concede anything to anyone. But they hold very few cards.

Speak to any non Republican pensioner and they'll tell you they we're always like that (troubles or no troubles). The UK government may well have forced their hand (no gaurentees though) but the likes of these parade disputes would still be taking place.

As i've said, not only would the British have forced it, but you'd have all the following factors in play:
1 - we would still have had a civil rights movement
2 - there would have been significant external pressure as the rest of the world embraced the broader equality agenda
3 - the education of the Catholic population would have happened regardless
4 - the demographics would still have eaten away at the Protestant majority
5 - heavy industry, employing a hugely disproportionate number of Protestants, would still have disappeared

The PUL community would never have been able to retain their dominance. And as we can see, even with the campaign of violence, we still do have the parade disputes etc. - if anything it's worse!

I said the UK government 'may' have forced unionists hands but there are still numerous friends of the west with woeful human rights records so I don't think anyone could say that it would have happened without the arm twisting by the Republican movements

The difference is that NI is part of the UK, not just a friend of the UK in some distant land - I don't believe it could have been ignored, especially whilst the rest of the western world was embracing equality in terms of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. Also, I don't believe the US would not have ignored a continued civil rights movement.

Yes education of the catholic population would always have happened, but to gain employment they'd have had to leave these shores and would have impacted on your point 4.

Heavy industry has mostly disappeared but these people would have been absorbed into other services industries government bodies and lets not forget the large employer that is the civil service also was disproportionate in its make up every bit as much as Harland and Wolfe.

Sadly I don't think the transition we've experienced to date, imperfect and all that it is would have happened as quickly without some of the terrible things that happened along the way. I'm not condoning it, but I think you'd be wrong to believe the Civil Rights movement alone would have survived long with how it was initially treated by our neighbours and British establishment.

[lawnseed]

Im hearing rumours of a huge republican rally/commemoration planned for newtownhamilton soon. Right in wullie country and just after the town was the venue for this years armagh twelfth. Should be a cracker and handyt

[nrico2006]

I see Derek Hussey was spouting his usual sectarian dung recently there and just remembered that a few months ago he was charged with drink driving for the third time - has he been convicted yet?  Would be great to see him thrown into jail and kicked out of his party.