Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Maguire01]

The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!

What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.

Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.

Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.

The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.

Absolutely not irrelevant - if this was a country or a gov with real legislative powers then you'd be correct. It is a halfway house and yes an entity or a state but not in the full political legislative sense.
I'd say it is possibly unique in the world - can only think of Hong Kong in any way similar - and it's been returned to its owners now.

As for the definition, you agreed earlier that its how people use terminology.
Eg the word state does not solely mean a self determining country.

Well that's cleared that up. You had initially said NI wasn't an entity - now you acknowledge that it is.

Not quite - I was saying that I and others were referring to NI as an entity but not in the political sense.
I think you were getting your knickers in a twist by seemingly only believing eg the word 'state' could be used in a political sense.

As for the second part of your sentence- politically the six counties belong under the jurisdiction of the British gov- however while having an assembly, it has no real powers or cannot pass constitional laws afaik.

I wouldn't go as far to say that NI is illegal ( too long has passed for anyone to  campaign on that ticket- even though that may be factually correct) , but I'd say NI is politically incorrect and will be so until economy uplift and referendum etc

It is an entity in the political sense. How can it not be?  A political entity is a unit with political responsibilities - there's no requirement for a political entity to be a sovereign state.

And as we're talking politics, what was the point in referring to the word 'state' in the context of Ireland if not in the political sense? What other sense is relevant?

Also, surely you couldn't argue that NI is illegal on the basis that its status was agreed by the overwhelming majority north and south in passing the GFA? You could argue the wrongs of partition, but it could hardly be 'factually correct' to call it illegal.

[lynchbhoy]

Jeez man you really get your knickers in a twist over nothing.
In short many words in the dictionary have more than one meaning or context.
You are looking at the use of these words from your perspective or context from the political meaning.
My usage is of the non political perspective. I've tried to explain this numerous times.

Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!

[lynchbhoy]

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

None of these mean
Political constituency in ones head
A country called 'play' that has its constitutional government
A really bad country

That's another thing - NI is not a country in case you think I'm implying this by the use of the word 'country'!

[lawnseed]

Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.

wouldnt like to be your brother apples. dont think he covered up as such. more a kind of put on the back burner. a very difficult family problem for anyone to deal with.

[lawnseed]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor

[muppet]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor

He is also interested in Hot Yoga and learning Dolphin . Which is about as relevant as your point.

[lynchbhoy]

IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!

[lawnseed]

IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!

they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail

[lawnseed]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor

He is also interested in Hot Yoga and learning Dolphin . Which is about as relevant as your point.

the guy is part of the tent in galway, nepotism, cronism, fraud, lies, treachery, cover ups, golf at druids, and now you tell us hes into 'hot yoga and dolphins as well' you make my point very well

[lynchbhoy]

IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!

they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail

I'd simply call them cnuts not traitors.
Self obsessed me feiner wnakers.

The rest I'd agree with you on though.

But we have no choice- this is the type of person that goes up for election.
I mean inda kinny , sure he's a feckin bedraggled dwarf ex teacher who knows nothing about business- and it shows!

[lawnseed]

IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!

they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail

I'd simply call them cnuts not traitors.
Self obsessed me feiner wnakers.

The rest I'd agree with you on though.

But we have no choice- this is the type of person that goes up for election.
I mean inda kinny , sure he's a feckin bedraggled dwarf ex teacher who knows nothing about business- and it shows!

theyre all pigs on the one sow. they are directly related to dev the guy who gathered money in america for ireland and kept it. using some of it to start a media empire and his decendants still wallow in that wealth to this day

[Maguire01]

Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!

Did you actually read what I said? This is like arguing with lawnseed. I never said the referendum could alter how it was created, nor did I say I believed the plantation was okay. My point is that you might consider the referendum to be like the granting of retrospective planning approval - regardless of its status beforehand, it's legal now.

[Maguire01]

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.

[lynchbhoy]

Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!

Did you actually read what I said? This is like arguing with lawnseed. I never said the referendum could alter how it was created, nor did I say I believed the plantation was okay. My point is that you might consider the referendum to be like the granting of retrospective planning approval - regardless of its status beforehand, it's legal now.

what part of that is in disagrement with what I wrote previously?

[lynchbhoy]

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.

I'll repost again

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

None of these mean
Political constituency in ones head
A country called 'play' that has its constitutional government
A really bad country

I could have used a different work than 'state' eg I could have said 'area' but didnt.

I think you are misinterpreting my context. thats all.