NHL 2017

[Ball Hopper]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

[johnneycool]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

[Bord na Mona man]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

[AZOffaly]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

It's both. You have to do the development work, but you have to have a pathway to progression as well. I think the current system is spot on in terms of divisions.

[johnneycool]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

Maybe ask those counties just below the top table what they think rather than listen to the bleatings of Limerick and the other ex players from top counties throwing in their tuppence worth.

[AZOffaly]

B n M man is from Offaly. I think he knows the score there too.

[seafoid]

Seeing Offaly in the list of development counties is weird.

[johnneycool]

B n M man is from Offaly. I think he knows the score there too.

I know he is, and he didn't propose the "pull the ladder up" league format of Ball hopper.

I just get a bit pissed off with these knee jerk league changes to suit one or two particular top teams when there's a serious impact on a lot of the lesser teams and then we get some bullshit from some committee or other tasked with developing hurling and its totally loaded with lads from the top counties putting forward proposals which actually balls up developing counties.

[manfromdelmonte]

there's feck all development being done in the likes of Westmeath

county is going backwards if you ask me

minors have been terrible the last two years
cannot compete with Meath at U14, U15 and U16
hurling clubs not progressing in Leinster Club competitions

[Ball Hopper]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

Maybe ask those counties just below the top table what they think rather than listen to the bleatings of Limerick and the other ex players from top counties throwing in their tuppence worth.

Do you know for a fact that these "lesser" counties are not asked about things?  Any system that allows the team finishing fourth in the second division to compete for the overall title is madness.  In fact, letting any team from the second division having a title shot is downright wrong.

Let Newcastle play Chelsea for the Premiership?  Or Leeds, who might finish sixth or so? Madness.

But go right ahead and say this is the best way to improve the lesser counties. 

How do counties stay at the top table?  Why did Offaly decline so far?  And Laois and Antrim? 

This is a discussion forum...discuss.

[manfromdelmonte]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

Maybe ask those counties just below the top table what they think rather than listen to the bleatings of Limerick and the other ex players from top counties throwing in their tuppence worth.

Do you know for a fact that these "lesser" counties are not asked about things?  Any system that allows the team finishing fourth in the second division to compete for the overall title is madness.  In fact, letting any team from the second division having a title shot is downright wrong.

Let Newcastle play Chelsea for the Premiership?  Or Leeds, who might finish sixth or so? Madness.

But go right ahead and say this is the best way to improve the lesser counties. 

How do counties stay at the top table?  Why did Offaly decline so far?  And Laois and Antrim? 

This is a discussion forum...discuss.

the premier league has 20 teams, the championship has 24 (I think)

there are no home and away games in the NHL
the league is about getting games for counties
the quarter finals serve that purpose

[johnneycool]

Make it a pure league.  10 teams.  9 games.  No semi-finals or finals.  Top team are league champs.

Yeah because that'll really help the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly and Antrim develop.

Unfortunately I don't think systems make a huge difference. The development work has to come from within.

Maybe ask those counties just below the top table what they think rather than listen to the bleatings of Limerick and the other ex players from top counties throwing in their tuppence worth.

Do you know for a fact that these "lesser" counties are not asked about things?  Any system that allows the team finishing fourth in the second division to compete for the overall title is madness.  In fact, letting any team from the second division having a title shot is downright wrong.

Let Newcastle play Chelsea for the Premiership?  Or Leeds, who might finish sixth or so? Madness.

But go right ahead and say this is the best way to improve the lesser counties. 

How do counties stay at the top table?  Why did Offaly decline so far?  And Laois and Antrim? 

This is a discussion forum...discuss.

There's a reason the teams in Div1B up to and including 3rd and 4th are included in the playoff stages and it was because of the gurning by some perennial Div1B teams about lack of matches and this tweak was added, personally I'd restrict it to the top two in Div1B as its no big deal.
It's strange that the same system isn't in place for Div2A and B though, don't you think?

Also "Do you know for a fact that these "lesser" counties are not asked about things?"

Well I've spoken to a lad who was invited onto one of these committees (token Nordie) and he said it was a waste of his time, he wanted to discuss changes to the Christy Ring (which was in its infancy then), possible changes to the lower leagues in the NHL and so forth, but as he was the only one from those hurling tiers the discussions invariably ended up about Liam McCarthy round robins, back doors and so forth. He reckons 5 minutes tops were spent discussing hurling outside the elite sections of the meetings he attended and that was to set up another review which never happened.

I'm happy to discuss also at any time.

[redsetanta]

I would say leave the top two leagues as they are and implement the tweak with regard to the quarter finals as suggested here. Top 4 in 1a and top 2 in 1b.

The extra playoff required for a team to be promoted was a disgrace and thankfully was done away with this year therefore either Carlow or Antrim will be in 1b next year with either Laois or Kerry down.

I my opinion the current system certainly suits for 1b and following on Div 2a. Because of the structure teams like Laois get games against some top teams albeit taking a beating but also they compete against a couple of teams of roughly their own level so it is 2 mini leagues. It also means whoever is promoted has a good chance of staying up as their are a couple of teams that they might be good enough to catch on the day. They also get to play some of the better teams i.e. Galway, Limerick and either Dublin or Clare next year. This helps with the development.

It's up to the likes of Limercick to do what they need to do to be promoted. No point in blaming the system. They had the 8 teams divisions up to 2011 and guess what Limerick were in the second div. In fairness they were promoted that year but the league was redrawn to it's current format. 

[Ball Hopper]

JC,

How long does it take to get anything right in the GAA?  I think the football league is finally there...8 teams per division, top two in the final of each division and the finals played the weekend after the league portion ends.  Even if the need for a final goes against what a league competition is about.  It took generations to get there and hopefully a proper hurling league will come along soon, as the current hurling structure is way off. 

The fact that Wexford can win the league from a lower division is wrong, not to mention the fact that Offaly can do likewise with exactly one league win and a scoring difference of -39, while the team just above them in the second division table were +49...a difference of 88 points over just 5 games!!! 

Wexford, Galway and Limerick are certainly top-level counties and one of them may well win the league.  But they will not have played Clare or Dublin (Div 1 teams) and possibly other Div 1 teams if results go a certain way.  Calling themselves league champions without playing in the top division is just ludicrous.

I must comment at this stage that the hurling games recently have been of an excellent standard and very enjoyable viewing (I watch all games via GAAGO as I'm "out foreign").  The pitches seem to be a much improved, hence the games are of much higher quality with some being close to championship fare.

Back to hurling league format - at least they have sorted the promotion from the Third Division to the Second Division (which are called Division 1A and 2a oddly), with the winners of the lower division gaining automatic promotion.  Call the divisions what they are for the luv a Jaysus, 1, 2 3, and 4.  We know what "Division 1b" is - it is the second level, so call it Division 2.

Currently, there seems to be 9 strong hurling counties - the Div 1 sides plus the top 3 from the next level.  A closed shop league, with just those 9 counties, would not be the way to go.  Hence my suggestion for 10 teams, with one team relegated and promoted each year.  Top team wins the league, no finals or semi-finals, as 9 league games are enough.  Currently, the league finalists will play 8 games, assuming no replays from quarter-final stage onward, so adding an extra week is not that much.  There will be plenty of mid to lower league games that proper managers will use to try players on the fringes of the team/panel, so individual  players should not see action in all 9 games causing burnout or whatever.

We'll presume Offaly, Kerry and Laois are the current leaders for that 10th spot and will also presume they will get some beatings in Div 1.  Is that helping them will be the big question. 

It is interesting and sad to hear that your friend reported that the lesser competitions and counties had virtually no true voice at the top table.  Perhaps the Christy Ring counties need to band together and run their part of the show without being "token" reps at meetings?  One huge step forward will be running the Christy Ring early enough that the winner plays in the Leinster round robin that same year, instead of waiting for the following year.

Keeping counties at a high level is also important - the GAA needs to look at Offaly in particular.  How were they allowed to fall off the pace so far in hurling?  Their footballers could be in Div 4 next year, depending on Sunday's game against Laois (another football county that has fallen quite a bit).  Has the game changed so much over the decades that the resources required in the 80's, if employed at the same level nowadays, are totally inadequate?  We had coaches back in the day, they were just not very good - "right lads, two laps to warm up, a few exercises and a game of backs and forwards - same as last week".  I'm sure the level of coaching is much better in all counties, so why are the Offaly and Laois teams not keeping up, and making it an elite 11 counties at a minimum?  Have all their resources gone into the facilities in Tullamore and Portlaoise, leaving nothing for player development?

It will be interesting to watch Dublin hurling over the next few years as well, keeping an eye on the funding issue.  Other things worth watching include the progress of Kildare, who are making strides in the right direction.  Carlow, Antrim and Westmeath seem to be building a solid platform as well and will be capable of competing and winning at just-under Div 1 levels.  Those 4, plus Offaly, Laois and Kerry, would make a competitive league grouping or a good championship round robin.  Down, London and Meath are the next level to bring up a notch.  Down have fallen a good bit - maybe you can throw some overview on what happened there, as you are intimate with the goings on in that part of the country.

That's it for now...

[manfromdelmonte]

If counties are weaker they deserve to drop down the leagues