Brexit.

[seafoid]

Whether settlers of of stock that took the soup, Unionists have always been under siege in Ireland. I was taken some years ago when I went to an outdoor museum somewhere in Tyrone which had a crannog and also a planters house. It was a living museum type of thing, where the planters were talking about how the native Irish were raiding and they had to be on the lookout. Folk memory.

Settlers are always paranoid.
They are scared of the revenge of the people they shafted. It comes out in different ways in different places.  It's the reason the US has a gun problem. It's the reason Israel will never sign a peace treaty with the Palestinians.  It's the reason Armistice Day is so important in Ballymena.

Prok and fitch via Gil Scot Heron
"The blues grew from  the nightmares of the white man"


https://youtu.be/-VTetYDhBNc

[yellowcard]

Pete Shirlow on Sunday Politics said that unionists are now beginning to look at the union in economic terms, not as a question of sovereignty. It is time that those espousing a UI start making cogent economic arguments rather than calling for a border poll. Thats what will inform peoples voting intentions in a future referendum.

The fastest way to a UI was always going to be through economics.

Conversely - if the DUP were not so f**king thick and took this deal - then economics would be working for their union, not against it.

In the electorate here, there are two fringes, hardcore republican voters and hardcore unionists. They won't change their minds regardless of what happens. But there is a sizeable middle which could swing on *very stark* economic arguments.

If we crash out with no deal - then that middle group, irrespective of religion, will be economically envious of ROI and when folks are weighing up a fleg vs. food on the table, a border poll might not be such a bad idea.
If we got the deal - then we'd be in best of both worlds - and then it'd only be the fringe republicans voting for a UI as the rest would be economically better off and the risk not worth taking.

I get where you're coming from but using that same logic then why did they ever support Brexit in the first place? They are imperialist fantasists riddled with paranoia and fear and when they initially nailed their colours to the Brexit mast they were entering into an unknown in terms of how the process would pan out. I thought it was a bad move from them prior to Brexit and it has so transpired.

Before even reading the withdrawal agreement, their chief Brexit spokesman was comparing the EU to the IRA and stating that it was like receiving a punishment beating from them. It could well be as good as it gets for them at this stage though tribalism will ensure that they say 'no surrender' until the bitter end.       

Most people, DUP included, thought Brexit wouldn't happen. So they supported it thinking it would fail, but come out of it looking all British and patriotic. When brexit happened, they had to stick to it.

They didn't know how it would pan out. They still don't. But they still will persist with it no matter how stupid they look or how much damage they do to the economy and people's normal everyday lives.

I think they are also enjoying the publicity that being in bed with the Tory far right has given them. They have become emboldened and indulged by like minded extremists in this whole Brexit debate. 

[seafoid]

It's funny comparing the DUP running around like Chicken Licken and the chat on the Ulster Club championship. When you know who you are versus when you don't. 
That was no penalty  versus we are going to bring down the Government.

[weareros]

Pete Shirlow on Sunday Politics said that unionists are now beginning to look at the union in economic terms, not as a question of sovereignty. It is time that those espousing a UI start making cogent economic arguments rather than calling for a border poll. Thats what will inform peoples voting intentions in a future referendum.

The fastest way to a UI was always going to be through economics.

Conversely - if the DUP were not so f**king thick and took this deal - then economics would be working for their union, not against it.

In the electorate here, there are two fringes, hardcore republican voters and hardcore unionists. They won't change their minds regardless of what happens. But there is a sizeable middle which could swing on *very stark* economic arguments.

If we crash out with no deal - then that middle group, irrespective of religion, will be economically envious of ROI and when folks are weighing up a fleg vs. food on the table, a border poll might not be such a bad idea.
If we got the deal - then we'd be in best of both worlds - and then it'd only be the fringe republicans voting for a UI as the rest would be economically better off and the risk not worth taking.

I get where you're coming from but using that same logic then why did they ever support Brexit in the first place? They are imperialist fantasists riddled with paranoia and fear and when they initially nailed their colours to the Brexit mast they were entering into an unknown in terms of how the process would pan out. I thought it was a bad move from them prior to Brexit and it has so transpired.

Before even reading the withdrawal agreement, their chief Brexit spokesman was comparing the EU to the IRA and stating that it was like receiving a punishment beating from them. It could well be as good as it gets for them at this stage though tribalism will ensure that they say 'no surrender' until the bitter end.       

Most people, DUP included, thought Brexit wouldn't happen. So they supported it thinking it would fail, but come out of it looking all British and patriotic. When brexit happened, they had to stick to it.

They didn't know how it would pan out. They still don't. But they still will persist with it no matter how stupid they look or how much damage they do to the economy and people's normal everyday lives.

I think they are also enjoying the publicity that being in bed with the Tory far right has given them. They have become emboldened and indulged by like minded extremists in this whole Brexit debate.

That's exactly it. They are like pigs in shit with the amount of air time they have been given when for most of the people in GB, they've been an obscure party up to now. They thrive in positioning themselves as defenders of the Union and pride themselves in the stubborn streak they are showing in contrast what they portray to be weak Theresa May taking a bad beaten from the EU, and worse, from Dublin. And worse again that she lied to them for the God-fearing DUP never tell a porky, and only denounce sinners, of what she is one and so is  Leo, Barnier and the rest of the EU. Brexit gives the DUP everything: siege, no surrender, blasphemers. They could only ever be on the side they have taken.

[Saffrongael]

Seems Corbyn doesent even understand Brexit

[RedHand88]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46269685

The £1bn should be coming through any day now! 

[yellowcard]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46269685

The £1bn should be coming through any day now! 

From Keunsberg

A senior DUP source has just told me tonight's votes were deliberately designed to "send a message to Theresa May that if she wants to continue down the road of the withdrawal agreement and its effect on the Union then there will be repercussions in the Commons".
"She could be leading them to a very bad place," they continued. "Tory MPs need to realise that their jobs, their majorities, their careers depend on a good working relationship with the DUP and May doesn't appear to be listening."

That's Theresa May told now, the DUP are loving the fact that they are threatening the careers of Tory MPs. Do they really think May is going to shake the magic money tree at them or is it just an empty threat. I'd imagine what they really hope for is an arch Brexiteer to step forward and oust May but that is looking less likely than it was a few days ago.

[seafoid]

What is happening now is truly historic


https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-urged-to-get-down-from-brexiteer-high-horse-37543431.html
"DUP leader Arlene Foster should get down from her hard "Brexiteer high horse" and rethink her decision to oppose the proposed Brexit deal, Sinn Fein's president has said.
Mary Lou McDonald insisted it was time for "grown-up politics" and to act to protect the island of Ireland's economy from a no-deal Brexit."

The video is worth watching because MLMD and by extension SF are tuned into reality and the DUP is not.

Paging Orior

The English destroyed the O'Neill ceremonial chair in Tullyhogue as they broke the power of the Gaelic lords and kicked off the plantation

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29068832

400 years later standing beside MLMD is an O'Neill.

[seafoid]

Pete Shirlow on Sunday Politics said that unionists are now beginning to look at the union in economic terms, not as a question of sovereignty. It is time that those espousing a UI start making cogent economic arguments rather than calling for a border poll. Thats what will inform peoples voting intentions in a future referendum.

The fastest way to a UI was always going to be through economics.

Conversely - if the DUP were not so f**king thick and took this deal - then economics would be working for their union, not against it.

In the electorate here, there are two fringes, hardcore republican voters and hardcore unionists. They won't change their minds regardless of what happens. But there is a sizeable middle which could swing on *very stark* economic arguments.

If we crash out with no deal - then that middle group, irrespective of religion, will be economically envious of ROI and when folks are weighing up a fleg vs. food on the table, a border poll might not be such a bad idea.
If we got the deal - then we'd be in best of both worlds - and then it'd only be the fringe republicans voting for a UI as the rest would be economically better off and the risk not worth taking.

I get where you're coming from but using that same logic then why did they ever support Brexit in the first place? They are imperialist fantasists riddled with paranoia and fear and when they initially nailed their colours to the Brexit mast they were entering into an unknown in terms of how the process would pan out. I thought it was a bad move from them prior to Brexit and it has so transpired.

Before even reading the withdrawal agreement, their chief Brexit spokesman was comparing the EU to the IRA and stating that it was like receiving a punishment beating from them. It could well be as good as it gets for them at this stage though tribalism will ensure that they say 'no surrender' until the bitter end.       

Most people, DUP included, thought Brexit wouldn't happen. So they supported it thinking it would fail, but come out of it looking all British and patriotic. When brexit happened, they had to stick to it.

They didn't know how it would pan out. They still don't. But they still will persist with it no matter how stupid they look or how much damage they do to the economy and people's normal everyday lives.

I think they are also enjoying the publicity that being in bed with the Tory far right has given them. They have become emboldened and indulged by like minded extremists in this whole Brexit debate.

Periods of English madness do happen but they don't last. The DUP will be shafted royally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell

On 20 April 1653, he (Oliver Cromwell) dismissed the Rump Parliament by force, setting up a short-lived nominated assembly known as Barebone's Parliament before being invited by his fellow leaders to rule as Lord Protector of England (which included Wales at the time), Scotland, and Ireland from 16 December 1653.[As a ruler, he executed an aggressive and effective foreign policy. He died from natural causes in 1658 and was buried in Westminster Abbey. The Royalists returned to power along with King Charles II in 1660, and they had his corpse dug up, hung in chains, and beheaded.

[trailer]

It's now a massive game of Political Chicken.
Crucially, the DUP haven't pulled their confidence and supply arrangement yet. So do they Vote against this Brexit plan, risk the Government failing and a no deal brexit or even a no brexit at all.
Could May try and call an Election? Risking a Labour Government?
Do the Tories try and oust her? This seems unlikely now as each day passes. They can seem to get the 48 letters. Who knew? The Tory party is full of shit!!

No doubt the DUP had a strong hand, but they appear to have overplayed it and as the others put down potential winning ones, they are stuck with Mr Bun the Baker,  Pokemon, Bryan Robson Match Attack, Alf and a Sheffield Wednesday shinny.

[trueblue1234]

It's now a massive game of Political Chicken.
Crucially, the DUP haven't pulled their confidence and supply arrangement yet. So do they Vote against this Brexit plan, risk the Government failing and a no deal brexit or even a no brexit at all.
Could May try and call an Election? Risking a Labour Government?
Do the Tories try and oust her? This seems unlikely now as each day passes. They can seem to get the 48 letters. Who knew? The Tory party is full of shit!!

No doubt the DUP had a strong hand, but they appear to have overplayed it and as the others put down potential winning ones, they are stuck with Mr Bun the Baker,  Pokemon, Bryan Robson Match Attack, Alf and a Sheffield Wednesday shinny.

I get the feeling the DUP would nearly be happy enough to go back to what they had. I think they completely misread the repercussions of a Brexit in their haste to try and strengthen the union. I think now the penny will have dropped that if anything it's weakened it and that a no Brexit would be better for them than this deal.

[seafoid]

It's now a massive game of Political Chicken.
Crucially, the DUP haven't pulled their confidence and supply arrangement yet. So do they Vote against this Brexit plan, risk the Government failing and a no deal brexit or even a no brexit at all.
Could May try and call an Election? Risking a Labour Government?
Do the Tories try and oust her? This seems unlikely now as each day passes. They can seem to get the 48 letters. Who knew? The Tory party is full of shit!!

No doubt the DUP had a strong hand, but they appear to have overplayed it and as the others put down potential winning ones, they are stuck with Mr Bun the Baker,  Pokemon, Bryan Robson Match Attack, Alf and a Sheffield Wednesday shinny.

https://youtu.be/1zkjLVMMutY

Attacking  the Tories probably won't end well for the DUP

[trailer]

It's now a massive game of Political Chicken.
Crucially, the DUP haven't pulled their confidence and supply arrangement yet. So do they Vote against this Brexit plan, risk the Government failing and a no deal brexit or even a no brexit at all.
Could May try and call an Election? Risking a Labour Government?
Do the Tories try and oust her? This seems unlikely now as each day passes. They can seem to get the 48 letters. Who knew? The Tory party is full of shit!!

No doubt the DUP had a strong hand, but they appear to have overplayed it and as the others put down potential winning ones, they are stuck with Mr Bun the Baker,  Pokemon, Bryan Robson Match Attack, Alf and a Sheffield Wednesday shinny.

I get the feeling the DUP would nearly be happy enough to go back to what they had. I think they completely misread the repercussions of a Brexit in their haste to try and strengthen the union. I think now the penny will have dropped that if anything it's weakened it and that a no Brexit would be better for them than this deal.

Does this withdrawal deal not potentially strengthen their "precious union"? If NI has unfettered access to the EU and the UK is this not an ideal scenario for business and the economy in general. Why would people vote to leave this beneficial scenario.
Of course, with a hard border or lets say a stickier border than we currently enjoy, it could/would tie us ever closer to GB. Reliant on it's handouts and trade crumbs to stay afloat, stay alive even. A sort of cold war satellite region. Perhaps this is the DUP vision.

[BennyCake]

Maybe the DUP will go away and come back with Graduated Response II.

While theyre at it, maybe they could tell us what Graduated Response I was.

[seafoid]

When the DUP roll out Sammy Wilson it feels like watching the boys in green. Martin  O'Neill just doesn't have the players. Neither does Arlene.