Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

[Angelo]

Matt Doherty, who can't defend to save his life, about to join spurs. We can only imagine its because Jose Mourinho knows nothing about  football or because Celtic are way better than spurs. To think differently would mean Angelos post above is utter shite and sure that couldn't be right.

Yes, because Spurs would never sign a dud?

Mourinho last few years in football management would suggest he is a busted flush.

[Itchy]

Matt Doherty, who can't defend to save his life, about to join spurs. We can only imagine its because Jose Mourinho knows nothing about  football or because Celtic are way better than spurs. To think differently would mean Angelos post above is utter shite and sure that couldn't be right.

Yes, because Spurs would never sign a dud?

Mourinho last few years in football management would suggest he is a busted flush.

Sure Angelo, the former manager of Man Utd, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Porto  who's won quite a few trophy along the way also gets his knowledge of soccer from the back of the Sun newspaper.

[Angelo]

Matt Doherty, who can't defend to save his life, about to join spurs. We can only imagine its because Jose Mourinho knows nothing about  football or because Celtic are way better than spurs. To think differently would mean Angelos post above is utter shite and sure that couldn't be right.

Yes, because Spurs would never sign a dud?

Mourinho last few years in football management would suggest he is a busted flush.

Sure Angelo, the former manager of Man Utd, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Porto  who's won quite a few trophy along the way also gets his knowledge of soccer from the back of the Sun newspaper.

Given his recent results in his last few jobs it wouldn't surprise me.

[Estimator]

I cant believe what nonsense I am reading here. Pavel Nedved. Holy f**k. Over and out.

That comment shows that your football knowledge is attributable to the back of The Sun or something

Yes Pavel Nedved - a Ballon d'Or winner.

One of the greatest midfielder to ever grace the game. Do you even remember watching him play? He was as complete a footballer as you could find.

In the last 24 hours you have stated the following nonsense on this forum

1- Pavel Nedved and Shevchenko were better players than Messi and Ronaldo
2- This is a poor era for football (I assume to downgrade the achievments of both Messi & Ronaldo) even though the game is played at an incredible pace today versus a decade ago
3- Glasgow Rangers would be a the same level as Sheffield Utd
4- And then this quite incredible comment regarding Irish players that might be worthy to play for Celtic...

Egan is a carthorse, I don't think he makes the Celtic XI, Stephen is a player who has spent the vast majority of his career playing in the LOI and English lower leagues. He is 30 years of age and just after his first ever season in top flight football, he's a very average player and was playing in the 4th tier of English football 3 years ago. They happen to play for a very well coached and organised outfit though. When you see these lads in action for Ireland, you realise how poor they are. The only Irish player who I think would come in and improve the Celtic team right now is the guy they are after - Duffy. I think the rest of them would struggle to earn a spot. Coleman is finish, Doherty can't defend to save his life, they don't have a striker near the class of Edouard. Their midfield options available to Ireland are abysmal. McGregor, Christie, Rogic, Ntcham would all walk onto that Irish side.

Taylor has much more about him.

Not even the Sun would print such unbelievable garbage.

Yes, I would stand by all of them.

The Sun would be more in touch with your musings is more of a poor reflection on you than me.

The fact that you find it incredible that one would rate Nedved - one of the greatest midfielders to ever play the game - as a better player than Messi or Ronaldo I think sums up your knowledge of football.

Nedved and Shevchenko played in a much tougher era of football than Messi and C Ronaldo played in - trying to say otherwise just makes you look silly or like someone who started watching football in 2012.

It's probably the worst Irish football team in living memory.

You do realise all 4 of those players were at the same World Cup in 2006.. Also Nedved + CR played in the Euros in 2004.
Nedved won his only Ballon d'or in 2003
Shev won his only Ballon d'or in 2004, then a whole era later...
CR won his first in 2008
LM won his first in 2009

But yeah, the first two played in a much tougher era.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

To answer the question in the title, Messi, and it's not even close.
Citeh look the most likely team but hopefully he goes to a proper club. There will likely be a lot of scrutiny around his contract release clause that Barcelona will have to sort.

Whao - a lot of nonsense on one post.

Why do you say its not even close?

And what do you mean by a proper club?

Jesus don't cry Taylor.
I say it's not even close because Messi is better than Ronaldo, and it's not close.
And you know rightly what I mean by a 'proper' club. A big club, with history and tradition, that hasn't needed oil money to get to where they are. A player like Messi deserves to go to one.
You must be a citeh fan for getting butthurt at that comment.

ha!
You got me shooters - close to the bone 

Yes a City fan - how can we become a proper club - please advise?

We won the FA Cup as far back as 1904 along with a few leagues, more FA Cups, League Cups and a Cup Winners Cup and this was all before the 80's.

Can we count this as history?

No, 2 leagues and a few cup wins before yous won the lottery doesn't count as history, in terms of the big clubs. That is dwarfed by most clubs in England. The Cup winners cup is also not a major trophy.
City will never be a big club now that they're being bankrolled by oil money no matter how many trophies they win. Just over 10 years ago yous were getting hammered 8-0 by middlesbrough. Same with the likes of PSG. Two plastic clubs who were nowhere before big money came in. Everyone who knows anything about football will know these two clubs will never be 'big' clubs.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

Nedved and Shevchenko better than Ronaldo and Messi. Jesus christ the night i've heard it all now. Bound to be on the wind up

[Angelo]

I cant believe what nonsense I am reading here. Pavel Nedved. Holy f**k. Over and out.

That comment shows that your football knowledge is attributable to the back of The Sun or something

Yes Pavel Nedved - a Ballon d'Or winner.

One of the greatest midfielder to ever grace the game. Do you even remember watching him play? He was as complete a footballer as you could find.

In the last 24 hours you have stated the following nonsense on this forum

1- Pavel Nedved and Shevchenko were better players than Messi and Ronaldo
2- This is a poor era for football (I assume to downgrade the achievments of both Messi & Ronaldo) even though the game is played at an incredible pace today versus a decade ago
3- Glasgow Rangers would be a the same level as Sheffield Utd
4- And then this quite incredible comment regarding Irish players that might be worthy to play for Celtic...

Egan is a carthorse, I don't think he makes the Celtic XI, Stephen is a player who has spent the vast majority of his career playing in the LOI and English lower leagues. He is 30 years of age and just after his first ever season in top flight football, he's a very average player and was playing in the 4th tier of English football 3 years ago. They happen to play for a very well coached and organised outfit though. When you see these lads in action for Ireland, you realise how poor they are. The only Irish player who I think would come in and improve the Celtic team right now is the guy they are after - Duffy. I think the rest of them would struggle to earn a spot. Coleman is finish, Doherty can't defend to save his life, they don't have a striker near the class of Edouard. Their midfield options available to Ireland are abysmal. McGregor, Christie, Rogic, Ntcham would all walk onto that Irish side.

Taylor has much more about him.

Not even the Sun would print such unbelievable garbage.

Yes, I would stand by all of them.

The Sun would be more in touch with your musings is more of a poor reflection on you than me.

The fact that you find it incredible that one would rate Nedved - one of the greatest midfielders to ever play the game - as a better player than Messi or Ronaldo I think sums up your knowledge of football.

Nedved and Shevchenko played in a much tougher era of football than Messi and C Ronaldo played in - trying to say otherwise just makes you look silly or like someone who started watching football in 2012.

It's probably the worst Irish football team in living memory.

You do realise all 4 of those players were at the same World Cup in 2006.. Also Nedved + CR played in the Euros in 2004.
Nedved won his only Ballon d'or in 2003
Shev won his only Ballon d'or in 2004, then a whole era later...
CR won his first in 2008
LM won his first in 2009

But yeah, the first two played in a much tougher era.

Yes.

Sheva and Nedved had both been on the scene years earlier.

Nedved had starred for a Czech Republic team who made their way to the European Championships final in 96, he was named MOTM in the semi final and was the Czech's main man.

By the time he finally won the Ballon d'Or he had already won 3 Serie A titles with Lazio and Juve. It was Lazio's third ever Serie A title, again Nedved was the main man and Juve brought him to replace Zidane, I think you'll find Nedved is remembered more fondly in Italy than Zidane.

As a 20 year old Shevchenko brought little ol Dynamo Kiev to the QF of the CL, scoring a hat trick at the Nou Camp along the way. That was back in 1997.

Why did it take Shevchenko and Nedved until they were in their late 20s to win a Ballon d'Or - well it's what I said earlier, they played in a great era of football, they had the likes of Zidane and the real Ronaldo to compete with. Bonafide world class players like Batistuta, Totti, Maldini, Redondo never came within an whisker of winning one in that era - there was so much quality and so many big names.

Look at Messi's pathetic record at international level, going into hiding and letting the likes of Di Maria and Mascherano show the leadership for Argentina.

The Brazilian Ronaldo was a few levels above both CR7 and Messi at his peak and as I said earlier, I'd have the likes of peak Nedved and Shevchenko over them.

[sid waddell]

I'd have the likes of a peak Shevchenko or a peak Pavel Nedved over them in all honesty.

Andy Sinton would have to be up there as well

[imtommygunn]

Djimi Traore. He has to be in the mix here.

[Nanderson]

So you're saying you'd have Nedved and Shevchenko over 91 goals and 22 assists 2012 Messi??

[gawa316]

I used to love Nedved back in his Juve days but this is the first time ever I have heard him not only being compared to Messi & Ronaldo but actually being called better

[imtommygunn]

He was a cracking footballer - really liked watching him play too. If I mind rightly I think he got injured in the euros when it looked like Czech Republic might win it which was a pity. Maybe that was the year Greece won it.

Wikipedia says messi only scored 73 goals on his best year. Not even worth talking about

[rodney trotter]

I remember Nedved before he went to Juve. At lazio, Veron, Nesta, Marcel Salas, . They had a quality team.
Italian league was really strong then. 5 or 6 teams were in a realistic shot of winning the league.

Football Italia with James Richardson was some show.

[Angelo]

So you're saying you'd have Nedved and Shevchenko over 91 goals and 22 assists 2012 Messi??

I'm saying Messi is a bit of a flat track bully, he's a very good one trick pony but we've seen that he can't do it in adversity.

Look how he crumbles with a star studded Argentina, every time.

And as I've said countless times before, it's a lot easier to look good in the era Ronaldo and Messi peaked in.

It's similar as to how Federer stopped winning slams when Nadal and Djokovic turned up. Competition changes things, there's not a striker in the game today as good as a peak Sheva/Batistuta/Ronaldo/Vieri, nor a midfielder in the game today as good as a peak Nedved or Redondo - none are even close. There's no goalkeeper around as good as a peak Buffon, no full back around who could rival Zanetti/Cafu, no centre back in the same league as Nesta, Maldini, Thuram and so on and so forth.

Lewandowski would have won the Ballon d'Or this year if it had been handed out, he's a great player but he's not in the same level as a peak Sheva and that shows why Messi and Ronaldo have dominated the football scene for the past decade - it has been weak.

So post all the stats up you guys want, they don't change the context.

Messi should always be judged with his record for the national side at major tournaments a major asterisk over him.

The real Ronaldo won a World Cup by himself when he came back from 2 years out with a knee injury. That knee injury that he came back from robbed him of his explosiveness, he was about 70% of the player he was, yet it did not stop him from achieve greatness.

The Brazilian Ronaldo is the greatest of all time, certainly up there with Maradona anyway.

[mouview]

Nedved was a very good player, but to elevate him *far* above such as Zidane, Savicevic, Hagi, Iniesta, Zavi, Stojkovic, Pirlo etc. etc. (and these are just his own-era contemporaries) is plain bonkers.

CR7 deserves his place in the pantheon of the greats, but there can be no comparison between he and Messi. Peak-Messi in the early years of this decade was extraordinary; almost weekly doing for Barce' what Maradona did for the Argies in '86. Watch his performance the night they shredded a star-studded Madrid team 5-0 at the Nou Camp.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/16/my-favourite-game-barcelona-real-madrid-la-liga-2010-messi-mourinho-guardiola

Saying Messi never did it at International level is a red herring. Despite having the best side in the tournament, Pekerman fatally undermined it in 2006 with bizarre use of subs and leaving a young Messi benched.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/worldcup2006blog/2006/jun/30/argentinablowitwithcrazys#comment-399711

Maradona was manager in 2010, enough said. Despite not being fully fit in 2014, Messi still guided them to the final that year, and may well have won a very tight game had that lumbering lug Higuain not eschewed a golden chance. 2018, many of the team were past their peak.

If Messi never did it at International level, then he joins those other greats Puskas, Di Stefano, Eusebio, Best, Cryuff, Platini etc.