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GAA Discussion / Re: Tyrone vs Armagh - 3rd June 7pm - Healy Park, Omagh.

« on: Today at 11:46:07 AM »

Based on what? Beating Antrim, Cavan and Westmeath?

No delusion like Armagh fans delusion.

I'd say its probably more based on the fact that Tyrone have won one championship match in the last 2 seasons against Fermanagh while Armagh are unbeaten in 8 championship games. That said I think it will be very tight and I wouldn't like to call it.

Unbeaten in ZERO games now. Armagh get a small dose of reality. They are not a top team. They are not Div 1. They are not good enough to win an Ulster title never mind an All Ireland. They have a negative boring system that allows them to not get stuffed. If they went 15 v 15 they be on the end of some bad beating. McGenney has perfected the  "lets only lose by a few points" system.
Rian O'Neill for all his talent gets involved in far to much off the ball stuff. His red card had been coming.
Tyrone let Armagh back into it. Again Morgan with more confidence than ability almost gifted them the game. But it's a win. Onwards.

Armagh back in there f**king box for another while, until they beat the next Division 3 team and the county loses the run of itself again lol!!

We were penalty kicks away from winning an Ulster title and I think we were good enough to have won one. But the reality is that we didn’t and it was an opportunity lost and I fear our chance may now have passed. We were never good enough to win an AI title and I never heard too many Armagh fans claim otherwise.

However if Armagh are as bad as you think then I’d be more worried how Tyrone limped over the line at home against a second rate team playing with 14 men. And if Armagh had been more efficient up front we would have won the match too. Tyrone have done nothing since 2021 to suggest they are among the poorest AI champions in recent times.

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GAA Discussion / Re: Tyrone vs Armagh - 3rd June 7pm - Healy Park, Omagh.

« on: June 04, 2023, 09:23:54 PM »

Given the nature of a lot of the debate, I rarely feel motivated to post on the GAA side of this forum anymore. However, once in a while, there is a post that makes me break the rule.

Great post Edward. Agree with an awful lot of what is said therein and in particular the piece I have quoted below, which absolutely nails my own thoughts.

Finally, any chat about the management is futile at this stage of the year. Sure they could probably be doing some things better, and I'm certain there will be a thorough evaluation of the situation at the end of the season. But I'd caution those in Armagh baying for replacement to be careful what you wish for...

The current group of players didn't just land into McGeeney's lap - over many, many years he has crafted a team that has now reached a level where they are consistently competitive with the best in the country (nowhere near a given for a county like Armagh). In the absence of any sort of conveyor belt of underage talent over the last decade, resources have had to maximised and intercounty players have had to be moulded from what was available. There are men putting in good shifts for Armagh at the top level who probably wouldn't be near intercounty football under any other management - it's from these efforts that the county has its modest amount of squad depth. When the current management team does depart, which may be soon enough, it will very likely precipitate the retirement of up to half a dozen playing stalwarts. Armagh will then enter a rebuilding phase, and with little to shout about recently at underage, school, or club level, it looks not at all unlikely that the only way for the county will be down (or, Down - like in languishing in Div 3 and going nowhere fast). Anyone that thinks Armagh hit the next level just by landing Oisin McConville, or Tony McEntee, or Malachy O'Rourke in on top of the current playing group isn't living in the real world.

That is so on the money. Respect.

Surely the whole point of a very well paid manager is that he changes the entire set up and not just deal with the senior player? He has had 9 years to help the set up and his most successful year was getting to a quarter final without winning anything.

His persistent hard man attitude is reflected on the team and has gotten them no where. Keep him for another 9 years I say lol

I’m not sure how a manager can have a hard man attitude! But some people will use anything to have a go at McGeeney. If I was a Tyrone fan I’d be more concerned as to why so many players don’t want to play for them.

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GAA Discussion / Re: Tyrone vs Armagh - 3rd June 7pm - Healy Park, Omagh.

« on: June 04, 2023, 07:42:52 PM »

Given the nature of a lot of the debate, I rarely feel motivated to post on the GAA side of this forum anymore. However, once in a while, there is a post that makes me break the rule.

Great post Edward. Agree with an awful lot of what is said therein and in particular the piece I have quoted below, which absolutely nails my own thoughts.

Finally, any chat about the management is futile at this stage of the year. Sure they could probably be doing some things better, and I'm certain there will be a thorough evaluation of the situation at the end of the season. But I'd caution those in Armagh baying for replacement to be careful what you wish for...

The current group of players didn't just land into McGeeney's lap - over many, many years he has crafted a team that has now reached a level where they are consistently competitive with the best in the country (nowhere near a given for a county like Armagh). In the absence of any sort of conveyor belt of underage talent over the last decade, resources have had to maximised and intercounty players have had to be moulded from what was available. There are men putting in good shifts for Armagh at the top level who probably wouldn't be near intercounty football under any other management - it's from these efforts that the county has its modest amount of squad depth. When the current management team does depart, which may be soon enough, it will very likely precipitate the retirement of up to half a dozen playing stalwarts. Armagh will then enter a rebuilding phase, and with little to shout about recently at underage, school, or club level, it looks not at all unlikely that the only way for the county will be down (or, Down - like in languishing in Div 3 and going nowhere fast). Anyone that thinks Armagh hit the next level just by landing Oisin McConville, or Tony McEntee, or Malachy O'Rourke in on top of the current playing group isn't living in the real world.

That is so on the money. Respect.

Its very hard to argue with much of that post. I think its ok to think that McGeeney has done a good job overall but its also ok to think that we look like we need a change. And possibly he needs a break from Armagh himself. I wouldn't be too optimistic about the future though and I'd be a lot more concerned about the lack of success at underage level where we failed to win a championship game at U17 and U20 level yet again this year. But that tends to get overlooked as all of the focus is on the senior team. I'd be asking more questions of what is going in not producing competitive underage teams for about a decade now.   

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General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

« on: June 01, 2023, 04:05:59 PM »

Bryson, Nesbitt, Paisley, Foster, Alderdice. They'll all talking about a Unity Ref and they are all worried.

Wait till you hear Bin Lorry of the Newsletter almost in tears, pleading for help from the UK Gov and anyone else who'll listen about the plight Unionism finds itself in.

Listened back to that Ben Lowry interview and it really was something else, he sounded as if he needed a good cold shower after it. It's well worth a listen just to hear what the editor of the main Unionist media outlet actually thinks about things. He is totally consumed by the Union at the expense of everything else and it does reflect a lot of unionist thinking and more particularly that older generation.

If political unionism continues on its current course of action then I think a border poll will be much quicker to take place than we imagine and most likely within 5-10 years. By denying Irish language rights, batting for the hardest form of Brexit, denying a nationalist first minister, cosying up to ERG Tories for political titles etc etc they have simply mobilised nationalists. Then lundifying anybody from their own side who shows the slightest form of compromise or long term strategic thinking. If they actually tried to be more reasonable they could probably prolong their precious Union for a generation but I just don't don't think its in them as they try and outdo each other in a contest to see who can be the ultra superbrit.

Lowry on BBC and Lowry on RTE are different people.  He rants and raves like a bigoted lunatic north of the border, yet, when on RTE, he's as good as gold and much more tempered in his outlook.  Either way, the northern Lowry is most likely the real one, and he knows the union is in terminal decline.

He knows his audience. The Newsletter has descended into an extreme unionist/loyalist propaganda media outlet since he became editor in 2021 which tells you a lot about his thinking. He sometimes tries to present a moderate viewpoint but yesterday he just completely lost the run of himself. And it was wasn't that Nolan was even grilling him in any shape or form, he just went off on a few different tangents and said everything that he wanted to get off his chest.

I don't know where it comes from but he is among the most bitter, anti Irish of them all and yesterdays meltdown was something else.   

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General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

« on: June 01, 2023, 09:55:25 AM »

Bryson, Nesbitt, Paisley, Foster, Alderdice. They'll all talking about a Unity Ref and they are all worried.

Wait till you hear Bin Lorry of the Newsletter almost in tears, pleading for help from the UK Gov and anyone else who'll listen about the plight Unionism finds itself in.

Listened back to that Ben Lowry interview and it really was something else, he sounded as if he needed a good cold shower after it. It's well worth a listen just to hear what the editor of the main Unionist media outlet actually thinks about things. He is totally consumed by the Union at the expense of everything else and it does reflect a lot of unionist thinking and more particularly that older generation.

If political unionism continues on its current course of action then I think a border poll will be much quicker to take place than we imagine and most likely within 5-10 years. By denying Irish language rights, batting for the hardest form of Brexit, denying a nationalist first minister, cosying up to ERG Tories for political titles etc etc they have simply mobilised nationalists. Then lundifying anybody from their own side who shows the slightest form of compromise or long term strategic thinking. If they actually tried to be more reasonable they could probably prolong their precious Union for a generation but I just don't don't think its in them as they try and outdo each other in a contest to see who can be the ultra superbrit. 

6

GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 4 - Derry, Clare, Monaghan, Donegal

« on: May 31, 2023, 03:43:29 PM »

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

The loss of Gallagher is massive for Derry. The media won't say it too loud as he is now deemed persona non grata but his imprint was all over that team as he was the coach, manager, tactician and motivator all in one. Add in the terms of his departure with the claims hanging over him with players and their family reading the media stories about it ever since then and it can't be easy for the Derry players.

That is a large part of why I think we will continue to see such a drop off in their performance levels. I don't think they were ever going to win an All Ireland anyway but now I'd be surprised if they get past the quarter finals.

As for Corey complaining about the 2 week gap, well some of these county managers just need a chip on their shoulder about something. These are highly conditioned athletes so I don't see how they need more than a week to recover between matches. The same managers would likely be running weekend training camps or playing full 70 minute training matches if they didn't have a match anyway. Too few games and they are complaining and too many games and they are complaining also.     

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GAA Discussion / Re: Tyrone vs Armagh - 3rd June 7pm - Healy Park, Omagh.

« on: May 31, 2023, 12:41:53 PM »

Based on what? Beating Antrim, Cavan and Westmeath?

No delusion like Armagh fans delusion.

I'd say its probably more based on the fact that Tyrone have won one championship match in the last 2 seasons against Fermanagh while Armagh are unbeaten in 8 championship games. That said I think it will be very tight and I wouldn't like to call it. 

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 4 - Derry, Clare, Monaghan, Donegal

« on: May 31, 2023, 12:15:41 PM »

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

« on: May 31, 2023, 11:38:42 AM »

This Ulster Final hang-over thingy.

So when Nugent was shooting for a point, mid-kick he thought "ah the Ulster Final" and then kicked it into the keeper's hand?

Near the end of the game, as Rafferty was kicking the ball out he thought "ah the Ulster Final" and kicked it into the hands of a Westmeath player?

Hmmm, not sure.

Nugent after his displays this season will be doing well to see any game time this week, form has fallen off a cliff and the fact that hes joint captain probably got him the start the last day.  The use of Conaty has been strange, he quit full time soccer with portadown didn't see any meaningful gametime during the league then hes sprung from the bench in an ulster final and gets no minutes again last week when chasing the game for the most part.  Use of Cian McConville or lack of also strange given how poor Nugent has been.

I'm actually surprised McConville has remained in the squad as i am sure he is ragin.

He has been around the squad a few years now yet I don't recall him playing very much at all. You can look at that a few different ways. He has been arguably the best club footballer in Armagh for the last 2 seasons and should be getting a chance. He isn't producing in training and isn't up to the level of a senior inter county footballer. Or he just doesn't fit the profile of footballer required to fit into the Armagh game plan. I think it is probably the latter as I think he is a very talented footballer.

Nugent has been below par all season but he is a stronger, physical more robust player who will work backwards. Duffy and Hall are other players who can do the defensive work required in Armaghs system. Both players have been decent during this championship and it is a very unglamorous role that they fulfill yet supporters still expect them to kick 2 or 3 points a game when they have a forwards jersey on their backs.   

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

« on: May 30, 2023, 03:44:22 PM »

This Ulster Final hang-over thingy.

So when Nugent was shooting for a point, mid-kick he thought "ah the Ulster Final" and then kicked it into the keeper's hand?

Near the end of the game, as Rafferty was kicking the ball out he thought "ah the Ulster Final" and kicked it into the hands of a Westmeath player?

Hmmm, not sure.

I'm not sure anyone claimed that poor skill execution had anything to do with an Ulster final hangover. However there is no doubt in my mind that there was some mental fatigue carried over from that match. Players are not totally immune to the what ifs and post mortems that will have circulated since the Ulster final. 

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

« on: May 30, 2023, 11:56:43 AM »

Armagh have been under the microscope a bit more due to the number of games we've played but I think Tyrone are under more pressure than Armagh to get a result here. They haven't won a meaningful match since they won the AI title and have suffered a lot of player defections since then. If we can beat them here then they will be needing to beat Westmeath to make the last 12 which is certainly no given. I wouldn't be totally confident of beating them but I think its a good time to play them and a good match to try and reignite our season. There was very little between the 2 sides in the League encounter when we were missing Rian O'Neill and Murnin and I don't expect there will be much in this match either.     

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GAA Discussion / Re: Name your quarterfinalists

« on: May 29, 2023, 02:24:40 PM »

Seems like a pointless exercise picking quarter finalists when we don't yet know the draw. But either way its a hell of a lot of matches to play in order to reduce from 16 down to 8 teams and which will be largely predictable in any case. 

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 3 - Dublin, Sligo, Roscommon, Kildare

« on: May 29, 2023, 02:22:46 PM »

Its the perfect game for Kildare and I don't think they will have expected to get another crack at Dublin until next season. The Dubs look like a stale, ageing side with injuries mounting up and are extremely boring to watch. Listening to Dessie Farrell in post match interviews is like watching paint dry and the Dubs are playing in the same manner. If Kildare have a bit of belief they can beat Dublin this time around. Expect another arm wrestle of a match.   

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GAA Discussion / Re: Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

« on: May 29, 2023, 12:33:41 PM »

Armagh carried that hangover from the Ulster final into the match which was not totally unexpected but at least we still somehow managed to eke out a win when we probably looked like a beaten side. The pattern of goals scored coming from last ditch long hopeful balls should tell us something about this team but we still persist with the slow, passive structured build up. Look at previous goals we scored against Donegal and Galway in last years championship and against Galway, Down and Westmeath this season and they have nearly all come from long balls or mishit shots kicked in. We are creating almost zero goal chances from the structured running game. The one major positive is that we managed to come out on the right side of a tight match for a change to hopefully guarantee a place in the last 12. But we are still a very hard watch with our reluctance to press up and play a more energetic direct game. I'd be hopeful that the sight of Tyrone jersey this week will be enough to reignite our season though. They haven't won a meaningful match since the AI final in 2021 and are under huge pressure themselves so if we can come out of Omagh with a win it could help do something similar for us than last seasons win over them.   

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GAA Discussion / Re: Kerry v Mayo - AI Senior Championship - R1 - Fitzgerald Field - Sat 20th 3pm

« on: May 20, 2023, 04:39:26 PM »

That's a big win for Mayo and one I didn't expect. Should give them a smoother passage to a semi final and if they weren't contenders before now then they definitely are now as it's not easy to go to killarney and beat Kerry in championship.