Time to ditch a United Ireland and Build a Northern Irish Identity

[T Fearon]

When she speaks about a Northern Irish identity I dont think she means that we should all don orange sashes (even if the Orange Order would permit taigs to do that!), or immerse ourselves in unionist culture (which isn't British either by the way), or vice versa.

I think she means that we should all try and foster a neutral distinctly Northern Irish identity, where both sides emphasise what they have in common and mutually embrace the innocuous aspects of each others' culture, in the knowledge that a United Ireland is light years away and full integration with Britain a non starter altogether.

[Applesisapples]

Funny as some of the answers are, I was posing a serious question. In my own opinion Unionists probably won't accept an NorthernIrish identity any more readily than an Irish one. To do so would dilute the union. So Ican't see it working. I would think, though I'm not sure the majority of those thinking of themselves as Northern Irish would be middle class and catholic.

ps How do you move this to general discussion?

[OakleafCounty]

I'd rather people just learned to accept eachothers differences rather than try to forge some sort of a new identity based entirely around Belfast.

[T Fearon]

There is very little in basic unionist/loyalist culture (ie kick the pope bands, marching etc) that is British, as the current British Secretary of State repeats ad nauseam, and a lot (arguably the majority) of protestant/unionists do not identify with this either.

N.Irish culture could be fostered with a new neutral flag, song (instead of British or Irish national anthem), and emphasis on things that unite rather than divide. In any case, there's not one of us up here that hasn't embraced the other side's culture to a certain degree (impossible not to, given the fact that we live alongside it etc). Other things that can unite include sport, music, literature, the arts,agriculture, and the fact that we are all mopes filled with paranoia.

[armaghniac]

Whatever about accepting what Mairead says,you can hardly deny what she says.A united Ireland is further away than ever

This isn't objectively true. In the 1980's say, when nationalists were in a substantial minority and the Republic much less prosperous there was no prospect at all of a United Ireland. Now it is coming down to the detail, people are realistically looking at it.

Reducing the fragmentation in NI society is very desirable in itself, but unless this also removes the fragmentation on the island it is incomplete.

sport, music, literature, the arts,agriculture, and the fact that we are all mopes filled with paranoia.

These don't stop at the border, with the exception of the OWC team and the mopery.

[Bingo]

Not an easy subject to look at without it throwing open the usual stand-offs.

While never agreeing with what went on in the past (on all sides), you could at least see what was behind it - basic human rights been the most obvious plus it was all recent history with one side claiming ownership and another disputing this.

Nowadays it would seem that generations have moved on from this. The issues for many have changed - social problems that concern everyone, economic issues, health.

Is there now a generation or maybe even a social class that if a referendum came up would be looking at wider issues rather than what flag they fly or anthem they sing. Will the bigger issues be what tax and social welfare regime they are under?

[Nally Stand]

N.Irish culture could be fostered with a new neutral flag, song (instead of British or Irish national anthem), and emphasis on things that unite rather than divide.

A makey-uppy culture for a makey-uppy, plastic state! I think I'll just stick with my Irish identity.

[Feckitt]

N.Irish culture could be fostered with a new neutral flag, song (instead of British or Irish national anthem), and emphasis on things that unite rather than divide.

A makey-uppy culture for a makey-uppy, plastic state! I think I'll just stick with my Irish identity.

Well said that man.

[Feckitt]

In the BBC sports news today.  Graeme McDowell to play golf for Ireland in the Olympics.  Expect this to be followed up with NI Catholic Rory McIlroy will represent Britain, as NI Protestant represents Ireland.  Both of them standing with the flag that unites us all the NI fleg around their shoulders.

This is the shiny new face of NI, and Nally Stand, myself and countless thousands of others can go and shite.  If you don't support the NI football team you are a bigot.  If you still mistrust the police you are a dissident.  If you see the tricolour as your flag you are most likely an IRA supporter.  Gaelic games are too divisive.  We should all support the Belfast Giants ice skating team instead.  This is the new Northern Irish joint identity.

[T Fearon]

I dont think fostering a unique N.Irish identity requires ditching the existing British or Irish identities, but merely it is aimed at reducing these as conflicting forces.

Irish identity? Now do you think you have more in common in terms of way of life,habits etc with your local protestant neighbour or with someone living in Cork or Galway?

[Feckitt]

I dont think fostering a unique N.Irish identity requires ditching the existing British or Irish identities, but merely it is aimed at reducing these as conflicting forces.

Irish identity? Now do you think you have more in common in terms of way of life,habits etc with your local protestant neighbour or with someone living in Cork or Galway?

What I cannot abide is that Northern Irish is good and Irish is bad.  When the census came out and something like 21% of people said that they were Northern Irish this was pushed BY EVERY MEDIA OUTLET as a good news story.  If only people could forget about being Irish and become Northern Irish then sure everything would be lovely.

Bout 'ye.  Our Wee Country   

[Nally Stand]

I dont think fostering a unique N.Irish identity requires ditching the existing British or Irish identities, but merely it is aimed at reducing these as conflicting forces.

Irish identity? Now do you think you have more in common in terms of way of life,habits etc with your local protestant neighbour or with someone living in Cork or Galway?

Irish identity? Yes, Irish identity. As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as "a unique n.irish identity". It's an attempt at manufacturing a culture from scratch. A makey-uppy identity for a makey-uppy state. As the old saying goes, stand for nothing and you'll fall for anything; and I don't plan on falling for a (largely BBC driven as far as I can see) campaign to turn us all into good little n.Irelanders where we all sing Danny Boy, hero worship Mary Peters sorry, Dame Mary Peters, support our wee country and the Belfast Giants, where motorbike racing is our "national" sport, and where we avoid sending our children to Catholic schools (because after all, if you don't choose integrated education, you are just a big sectarian).

[Jeepers Creepers]

Trying to agree a new flag, anthem etc. Holy smoke, I could only imagine those discussions. Unless it was open to primary schools as a competition with the winner announced on Frank Mitchels around the towns after the weather

[deiseach]

Can't wait for Seamus Heaney to be adopted as a member of this 'identity' now that he isn't around to tell them where to go.

[T Fearon]

Yes or we can maintain the status quo and hanker after a United Ireland that'll never happen in the coming decades (the North is looked after by Dublin's Department of "Foreign Affairs" presently by the way), and let both existing "cultures" in the North (neither of which in my opinion chimes with any significant culture in the real UK or the 26 counties, on either side) be mutually exclusive and competitive, leading inevitably to physical conflict, apartheid and government based purely on tribalism and/or fundmental and outdated religious beliefs.

As an interim measure it way well be worth exploring a non threatening common Northern Irish identity as a better alternative.