Time for the GAA, Croke Park in particular, to get innovative !

[Bud Wiser]

Apart from the fact that this years championship season is about to start in one of the worst re......ah look, I don't want to go into the R word but:

Notwithstanding the current state of gaa supporters finances on a broad scale, attendances at Croke Park for important games, particularly hurling games over the last few years has been a major concern.  Now, before anyone tells me there is a hurling section on the board I am referring to GAA in general and lest we forget, hurling is very much part of the GAA as much as football. So, when I refer to attendances I refer to both hurling and football and let's take Croke Park as the venue that I am specifically talking about.

1.   I was at last years Leinster Hurling Final (Thanks for the tickets John McGill), I was at the All-Ireland Semi's and the Final. If the attendances at a Leinster final, be it football or hurling were so low at the height of our tiger years what are they going to be like this year? 

2.   Some games in particular had attendances that in my opinion did as much harm to the promotion of our games as the moving of them to provincial venues. Should  Leinster Finals should be played in Croke Park, and each provincial final should be played in its own province regardless of whether it is Tyrone v Armagh ior whatever ?

On Wednesday night in Italy we saw a stadium FULL of Irish and Italians who all paid the princely sum of 10 euro per ticket to see an International.  Are our prices too high.  Outside of the launch of our national football league and the 125yr celebrations, the fireworks and other displays on the night were a credit to the GAA despite the high cost.  When word got out of what was going to be on offer in terms of a support show to the actual game itself, with respect to Tyrone and Dublin, there was not a seat to be got in the house.  So, albeit on a much smaller scale, is it time for the GAA to get innovative, or will I be sitting in the stand at this years Leinster Final looking across the field into an empty stand on the other side and listening to people moaning about the low level of attendance?

It is time that the GAA became a bit innovative and a percentage of the money that is on each ticket for any event in Croke Park should go towards providing pre-game entertainment that will encourage family outings to game that are likely to (a) attract low attendances but (b) deserve, because of their traditional level of importance such as a Leinster Hurling Final, to be played in Croke Park.

Now, without hogging the subject by going on to propose what should be done has anyone any ideas as to what would attract more people to our games.  As an example, it is not beyond possibility that Dublin will be playing Kilkenny in this years Leinster Hurling Final, or that Kildare will be playing Meath.  In the former case, here would be one of the best opportunities to promote hurling in Dublin that has come our way in the last ten or twenty years, so instead of a few Dub's looking into empty stands and the Cats staying at home waiting for the All-Ireland Final, how do we fill those seats without moving the game out of Croke Park?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

One thing should be that you have a stamps programme for league/championship matches and each country guarantees that people who attend all home games and 1/2 the away games are guaranteed a ticket for the latter stages of the championship (or if the county doesn't get enough they are the only ones in a draw for the championship tickets)...

[WeeDonns]

Well, you reduce ticket prices? That'd be the easiest answer
If that particular fixture comes up, some people in the GAA will be just expecting Dublin to help fill Croker. But obviously not all of 'the dubs' who fill it for the football are interested in hurling.

If the GAA are serious about promoting hurling in Dublin, then they need to attract a sell out attendance for such a fixture.

I think all ticket prices have already been set for this year? Just the same as last year, I think.  So they couldn't really offer a reduced rate ticket price just for this game that isn't being offered for other fixtures. They already offer fairly good family tickets for games, maybe they could increase the number of family tickets available? For people that aren't involved with a club they should make it well know when they are available on ticketmaster.

What they really need is a good marketing team. When Tyrone played Dublin at the first game under lights at croker, there were loads of tv and newspaper ads which got everyone talking about it. There wasn't as much pr for the game this year and there was a slightly smaller turnout.

They need the main sponsors to help promote the games more. Get the Guinness hurling cubed games being played outside croker on more match days. Vodafone had some class billboards adverts for the dubs around the city last year, maybe they could put up more with some of the 'star' Dublin hurlers on them, just to increase interest

[cornafean]

One thing should be that you have a stamps programme for league/championship matches and each country guarantees that people who attend all home games and 1/2 the away games are guaranteed a ticket for the latter stages of the championship (or if the county doesn't get enough they are the only ones in a draw for the championship tickets)...

These stamps programmes are messy & bureaucratic - read some of the stories on this site about guys with notebooks writing down serial numbers of season tickets outside some of the recent Allianz league games.

They also discriminate against supporters who cannot travel to all games, including the elderly, those with small kids or those with other GAA commitments. For example, there were large numbers of Tyrone supporters and participants at the Ulster Scór Finals last Saturday night in Swatragh. It was impossible for them to attend the Tyrone v Derry league game in Omagh, which started at the same time, an hour's drive away. Should they be punished for their loyalty to Scór? Ditto the many people who play, train or coach on Sunday mornings and find it difficult at this time of year to combine this with driving an hour or two to their county's away league fixtures, to arrive by 2pm or so.

The GAA need to improve and simplify the family ticket schemes in Croke Park. For example, why are they restricted to the Davin Stand (and/or Cusack Stand) for so many games, even when the Hogan is only likely to be 2/3 full at best? If I bring a child to Croke Park, they are not going to enjoy the atmosphere if they are stuck own their own in a corner of the ground away from the mass of supporters in the main stands.

[Bud Wiser]

On The Day Ticket Agents.  Deals done through Hotels (*) or Shops. There is no place in Croke Park now for the last minute man or the man who has a wad of notes in his pocket but still has not come around to the plastic card. Taking away the simple "buy at the gate" process, and it was taken away by enforcement of procedures rather than by requirement, has not alone made it inconvenient for traditional gaa supporters but it has led them to believe that the games in Croke Park are out of their zone.


Live entertainment, but not five or six people dancing a jig on a wooden pallet while someone bates the hell out of a bodhran. Even if the GAA had got Glen Hansard and Marketa Iglova to sing their Oscar winning song before a game it would have attracted a crowd so I am not saying we should see U2 before each game as a warm up but there are entertainers out there who believe it or not are staunch GAA men and who would attract crowds that would be suitable for family entertainment and who would perform for a lot less than you would think, particularly if they had an album they were about to release. I am not talking about a big stage, I am talking about a simple 30 minute entertainment section before each game.

*  I am not sure what I mean myself when I say hotels but there has to be something here.  If it was me the first thing I would do is estimate how many empty seats I am going to be left with. So, based on that I am still going to loose these seats anyway, how do I get arses on those seats even at a reduced rate and I think that a half price offer to hotels in the area around Croke Park would be better than wasting them.  So, say they give them to Jurys and they in turn promote an offer for a room and a ticket as a package or have them available to sell to regular customers or something, or do what they like with them once they have done the agreed amount of advertising.  

Basicly I haven't a clue what I am rambling on about but I do know that if the GAA don't take the lead instead of watching what english soccer stadiums are doing, and if this years attendances at provincial and quarter finals is worse than it was last year it may be too late to do anything.



Do deals with the Athletic Asociation where attempts at Irish records will be made.  If it means puting a running track around the pitch then so be it but give us an attempt at at least a straight
100m meters down the side or even a friggin high jump or pole vault record or anything that is meaninful other than the point kicking competition that was the most embarrising thing I have seen.

[Zulu]

Bud with respect I think you are rambling a bit, I mean noone in their right mind can surely believe we should put a running track into CP to try and get a few more punters in. I don't think we should be trying to entice people in with add on entertainment either, I was 100% behid the fireworks at the Tyrone/Dublin match but few are going to go to a game they've little interest because you add on 30 minutes of music at the start and we wouldn't be long running out of even semi attractive acts. Thehotel thing is a non runner too IMO as few people stay over night in Dublin except for the biggest games and then it is often in a mates house.

The reality is, the Leinster hurling final isn't an attractive fixture at the moment and should probably be played in a provincial ground where a crowd of 20-25K would generate a cracking atmosphere. That would be much better than saying (more or less) 'look lads if ye won't come for the hurling how 'bout we throw in a bit of music as well'. Of course we must do more to increase attendances and reducing prices for certain sections of the ground might be one way or doing deals with travel agencies to attract the Dublin tourist population to games may be another. Increased promotion and advertising of the games should be a given but GAA supporters themselves must anawer a few questions, we seem to be always finding a reason not to go to games, the price is too high, the game is on too late (or the wrong day), it's too far away blah, blah, blah, blah. Yet Munster and Leinster can bring thousands to France or England and English soccer supporters travel round trips of 12 hours on a Saturday to see their teams, why are we different?

[thejuice]

Or do things like randomly select people in the crowd, get them on the field to kick a point or something to win a prize. They did things like that in Thomond and at sports events in the USA for years.

[C_Berg_316]

Or do things like randomly select people in the crowd, get them on the field to kick a point or something to win a prize. They did things like that in Thomond and at sports events in the USA for years.

that wouldnt be a bad idea juice - give people at halftime the chance of kicking a point in corker in front of a massive crowd - though wouldnt fancy doing it after 10 pints in fegans before the match.....

[cornafean]

On The Day Ticket Agents.  Deals done through Hotels (*) or Shops. There is no place in Croke Park now for the last minute man or the man who has a wad of notes in his pocket but still has not come around to the plastic card. Taking away the simple "buy at the gate" process, and it was taken away by enforcement of procedures rather than by requirement, has not alone made it inconvenient for traditional gaa supporters but it has led them to believe that the games in Croke Park are out of their zone.

This is an excellent point.

A few other ideas:
Negotiate parking (eg non-clamping or cheaper rates) with local authorities on matchdays.
Organise special park & ride train or bus services on matchdays.
Improve the food facilities within grounds.
Would it be too much to offer free tea/coffee or sponsored bottled water/snacks to patrons, where possible?

[Bud Wiser]

Well whatever about the rest, Hotels are at the centre of tourism and as such have better marketing structures in place than Croke Park.  Last year they advertised the "All-Ireland Club Football Final" on the same day as they hurling final without a mention of the hurling.  Agreed, it was the football sponsor that did the add but for jaysus sake why could they not get the same deal for the hurling, another example of the GAA's attitude to hurling.  Now, lets say there is racing in Punchestown on Saturday and a hotel want to offer tickets for the races, golf and a match in Croke Park as a package why not give them tickets to do it.  For example, if you join the PGA Golf you get free admission to all race meetings in Punchestown, free access to the gym in City West so what is the big deal or big difference in making packages available for hotels and gaa to do the same, we don't all stay in our cousins house or rented flat on the cheap when we come to Dublin to avoid current rates of around 50 euro a night.

Secondly, I said that I was not suggesting big bands but bands that would be better than a few characters doing jigs and reels on a piece of a board.  Moving the leinster hurling final out of Croke Park is an idea that reminds me of a local councillor who suggested that where I live we should build apartments along the Dodder river because of the vandals that were there, ie, don't address the real problem, move it.

The idea of crowd involvement is a good one.  Maybe now that cars are down to around 20 grand the ticket you buy should give you a chance to drive home a brand new Ford Focus if the GPA will allow.

[Bud Wiser]

Yet Munster and Leinster can bring thousands to France or England and English soccer supporters travel round trips of 12 hours on a Saturday to see their teams, why are we different?

The very reason I started the thread.

[bingobus]

Bud wiser is very much on the money this (no pun intended)

The GAA at present is happy to rely on the loyalty of punters but this loyalty will be very much tested in current climate and we have to move on from this attitude.

We need to target the fair weather supporters, no matter how we loathe them at times. Even the club man needs to be taken back into the county scene. I know (as I'm sure we all do) ex-county players who never go to matches unless its the big day out in croker. These are family men now and they are happy that they are not missing anything.

There is no attraction to bring a family to games in most county grounds bar the actual 70 minutes play. Why would I take the kids in a car for say 1 or 2 hours to get to the field to find no proper catering facilities, poor toilets and then just sit and watch a game before going home again in a longer traffic jam.

I would like to see a fun park outside the grounds for the bigger provincial games. Every much like you see at American football games. This should include:

- Games and activities for kids from peno comps to bouncy castles
-  Proper food stalls with a choice in this area - Deli's, hot/cold drinks, space to sit and enjoy them.
- GAA coaches on hand to hold small coaching sessions in a designated area say every 15 mins run a 10 session on the pick up, solo or whatever. Let the parents watch.
- Mascots for the teams in action. For the smaller kids.
- Mobile GAA museum

This area could open from 12am on the day for the games and be right beside the pitch. It would pay itself if done right and would appeal to a lot of families looking for a day out in the summer if marketed and controlled.

[Zulu]

Well whatever about the rest, Hotels are at the centre of tourism and as such have better marketing structures in place than Croke Park.  Last year they advertised the "All-Ireland Club Football Final" on the same day as they hurling final without a mention of the hurling.  Agreed, it was the football sponsor that did the add but for jaysus sake why could they not get the same deal for the hurling, another example of the GAA's attitude to hurling.  Now, lets say there is racing in Punchestown on Saturday and a hotel want to offer tickets for the races, golf and a match in Croke Park as a package why not give them tickets to do it.  For example, if you join the PGA Golf you get free admission to all race meetings in Punchestown, free access to the gym in City West so what is the big deal or big difference in making packages available for hotels and gaa to do the same, we don't all stay in our cousins house or rented flat on the cheap when we come to Dublin to avoid current rates of around 50 euro a night.

Secondly, I said that I was not suggesting big bands but bands that would be better than a few characters doing jigs and reels on a piece of a board.  Moving the leinster hurling final out of Croke Park is an idea that reminds me of a local councillor who suggested that where I live we should build apartments along the Dodder river because of the vandals that were there, ie, don't address the real problem, move it.

The idea of crowd involvement is a good one.  Maybe now that cars are down to around 20 grand the ticket you buy should give you a chance to drive home a brand new Ford Focus if the GPA will allow.

Personally I don't think the half time entertainment is a runner and wouldn't attract anyone that wasn't already going to the game, the real problem with the Leinster hurling final is that it isn't competitive and therefore of little interest to the general public or indeed many within the competing counties, all the suggestions - good, bad or indifferent won't change that so moving it to a ground more suitable for the crowd expected is, currently as good an idea as any IMO.

[INDIANA]

If dublin did get to one -you would get a decent crowd- albeit mostly schoolkids. You won't get the adult male football "premiership" dublin football fan going to the hurling but we've thousands of kids playing hurling. Its probably the faster growing sport in dublin (depsite what Tom Mc Gurik and George Hook thnk). You'd easily get thousands of kids from dublin at that alone to get the ball rolling.
Sure kilkenny would probably beat them out the gate- but you have to start somewhere lads. I take Zulu's point but I just think moving a senior final out of croke park wouldn't be a good thing from a status point of view for hurling in general. I think if Galway buy into the leinster championship as well- the crowds may go back. I'd definitely go and watch a galway and kilkenny final and I think a lot of other neutrals would as well.

[Bud Wiser]

all the suggestions - good, bad or indifferent won't change that so moving it to a ground more suitable for the crowd expected is, currently as good an idea as any IMO.

With respect, if you read the last line of the starting post i asked

how do we fill those seats without moving the game out of Croke Park?

how do we fill more seats in Croke Park without moving games out of it. 

Your answer?  Move games out of it, fair enough, understood.

I am not just talking about the Leinster Final in hurling and if the slide in attendances is not corrected it will damage the association, in my opinion, it being based on the idea that someone is not going to drive like a lunatic from Kerry or Antrim, rush in the gate and sit looking at a game for one hour and a little bit and then drive home again, something else has to be offered, even if it is only a raffle on your ticket number or hear Christy Moore singing five or six songs.