Teachers get it handy!

[Jim Bob]

If I was given 29 holidays and the stat days, guaranteed to work 9-5 only and allowed to use those holidays whenever I want them I would take that over getting the summer off. And workload changes from school to school. I've moved schools and I'm doing half the work with half the issues and getting paid the same as my old colleagues.

I don't think we get paid enough considering we are doing a pretty important job. I was talking to a fella who owns an IT firm and his new fellas out of Uni are earning 60k by the time they're getting to 26. Most principals don't get that.

Simple answer, if you're good enough and have the skills, get out of teaching and into one of these supposedly high paid jobs.  You're not locked in by contract but you are because of teaching becomes a fur lined rat trap, the money is good, working conditions are very good compared to the majority of lower paid jobs and the holidays are great.

Where else could you get paid £39497 for 195 days work or 1265 hours per year as an ordinary classroom teacher?

I think it works out at just over £31 per hour or £203 per day worked.

Hard to beat!

Maybe you worked the 1265 hours and no more but I certainly did alot more than that because I had to to meet the demands of the curriculum and admin and meaningless paperwork which we were ordered to do. The contracted hours were simply not enough to fulfill the demands.

[Owen Brannigan]

So you are on 38 odd grand at 31 years of age if you are lucky enough to get a full time job when you come out of college (which most aren't by the way). What after that ? Prospects of any decent pay rises are grim and your career is only starting off...

Why would you get any more pay rises other than for inflation?

What are you doing as a teacher that would entitle you to life long pay increases other than to take account of inflation?

The main problem is that the existing increments are too much, they should be decreased and put across a longer period with performance related pay like most other jobs.

1. To compensate for the pay freezes and below inflation rises that I have endured for years.

2. Working way above the contracted hours for the good of the children under my care.

Existing increments are too much? Who are you to state that ? You are an ex principal of a second level school are you not ?

The increments have been in their current format for around 15 years.  I believe that a jump of £2000 a year for 6 years instead of £1000 for 12 years is a wrong way to reward experience for young teachers to receive such high increases over 5 years is unjustifiable when more experienced colleagues receive nothing.

I believe the salary scale should allow classroom teachers to earn up to £50,000 through a range of performance related increments over a 20 to 25 year period. With £65,000 top scale for those who have specific and high level skills that they share with younger colleagues in a mentoring role. The current management allowances should be rolled into the main scale so that good teachers do not have to take on other responsibilities to advance their pay. A few management roles are needed for teachers but non-teaching staff on lower pay scales should take on to do the administrative work now taken on by many teachers on allowances.  They would do the work better and teachers would concentrate on teaching.

[Owen Brannigan]

What's the teaching pension worth?

Like most jobs the golden pensions of yesteryear have gone. The majority of teachers no longer have final salary pensions and they now have to work until the National Pension Age before gaining a full pension.  That is 67 now. Imagine a school with 67 year old teachers.

The teacher pension is now an average pay pension which approximates to the average salary earned over the working life in teaching. No one is really sure how this will really work out as none have reached the end of working on this scheme.  Also this scheme doesn't automatically pay out a tax free lump sum with monthly pay.

So, the old final salary scheme was fairly good but the newer scheme will not pay out nearly as much on retirement.

The old scheme which ended about five years ago for all teachers younger than 50 paid out on a fraction of the final salary calculated by dividing years worked divided by 80 and a tax free lump sum which was the amount from previously calculation multiplied by 3.

There is a lot of chat on here by teachers complaining about their pay but they have been let down most by their unions who failed to stop the changes to the pension scheme which has seen contributions going up to significant percentages depending on your salary and the pension being greatly reduced from previous levels.  It all rolled through with no changes enforced by the teacher unions.

[michaelg]

She still brings marking home, still has classes and subjects to teach and under the same pressure to get results but for lesser money than a civil servant doing 9-5

A civil sevrant will probably be have about twice the standard working hours in a year as a teacher and to which grades of civil servant do you refer to? Entry level civil servants?

I would severely doubt that.  Teachers get around 12 - 13 weeks off a year admittedly, but many would work a significant number of hours  during those weeks off.  Given that many teachers would generally working 55 hours or so in any given week, not sure where you are getting your figures from.

Teachers are not working 55 hours a week, I've lived with them, I know some. This is the type of myths perpetuated by them and their associates to garner sympathy but it's a complete untruth.

Some are
Working with children is very tiring.
Dealing with the parents can be a misery.
Down here we seem to have a new initiative for schools every month and generally all they do is cause hassle and take away from quality teaching time with the children.

Why do teachers think they are unique in having to deal with certain aspects of work which they find frustrating/counter productive? Teachers seem to benchmark workplace practices against their utopian view of what they feel should be an easy, well paid part time job with summers off every year. The sense of entitlement is off the chain.

You don't see many of them going for career changes and what does that tell you?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

You don't think 40% is a lot? I have to say it sounds like there's an issue there whether it's to do with pay or conditions I wouldn't know. That kind of turnover is bad in any profession.

They are obviously quiting and going back into teaching, rather than taking on new career's 

according to the your man

It says new teachers. I would imagine its because they cant get a permanent full time roll.

That is not the case in the rest of the UK.

[Angelo]

If I was given 29 holidays and the stat days, guaranteed to work 9-5 only and allowed to use those holidays whenever I want them I would take that over getting the summer off. And workload changes from school to school. I've moved schools and I'm doing half the work with half the issues and getting paid the same as my old colleagues.

I don't think we get paid enough considering we are doing a pretty important job. I was talking to a fella who owns an IT firm and his new fellas out of Uni are earning 60k by the time they're getting to 26. Most principals don't get that.

Maybe teachers should go train IT then. Teachers love to complain, very few leave it though. The 3 months paid holidays during the summer is hard to compete with.

[JimStynes]

If I was given 29 holidays and the stat days, guaranteed to work 9-5 only and allowed to use those holidays whenever I want them I would take that over getting the summer off. And workload changes from school to school. I've moved schools and I'm doing half the work with half the issues and getting paid the same as my old colleagues.

I don't think we get paid enough considering we are doing a pretty important job. I was talking to a fella who owns an IT firm and his new fellas out of Uni are earning 60k by the time they're getting to 26. Most principals don't get that.

Maybe teachers should go train IT then. Teachers love to complain, very few leave it though. The 3 months paid holidays during the summer is hard to compete with.

It's not 3 months, it maybe is in the South but not up North! It's 6 and half weeks 

[playwiththewind1st]

What's the teaching pension worth?

Like most jobs the golden pensions of yesteryear have gone. The majority of teachers no longer have final salary pensions and they now have to work until the National Pension Age before gaining a full pension.  That is 67 now. Imagine a school with 67 year old teachers.

The teacher pension is now an average pay pension which approximates to the average salary earned over the working life in teaching. No one is really sure how this will really work out as none have reached the end of working on this scheme.  Also this scheme doesn't automatically pay out a tax free lump sum with monthly pay.

So, the old final salary scheme was fairly good but the newer scheme will not pay out nearly as much on retirement.

The old scheme which ended about five years ago for all teachers younger than 50 paid out on a fraction of the final salary calculated by dividing years worked divided by 80 and a tax free lump sum which was the amount from previously calculation multiplied by 3.

There is a lot of chat on here by teachers complaining about their pay but they have been let down most by their unions who failed to stop the changes to the pension scheme which has seen contributions going up to significant percentages depending on your salary and the pension being greatly reduced from previous levels.  It all rolled through with no changes enforced by the teacher unions.

That's the case for all public sector pensions.  The unions held strikes & lost the pensions battle. It is only in future years that people will come to realise just how badly they were shafted, allied to the further hit that was imposed, due to the increase in NIC contributions that followed shortly after the pensions setback.

[JimStynes]

If I was given 29 holidays and the stat days, guaranteed to work 9-5 only and allowed to use those holidays whenever I want them I would take that over getting the summer off. And workload changes from school to school. I've moved schools and I'm doing half the work with half the issues and getting paid the same as my old colleagues.

I don't think we get paid enough considering we are doing a pretty important job. I was talking to a fella who owns an IT firm and his new fellas out of Uni are earning 60k by the time they're getting to 26. Most principals don't get that.

Simple answer, if you're good enough and have the skills, get out of teaching and into one of these supposedly high paid jobs.  You're not locked in by contract but you are because of teaching becomes a fur lined rat trap, the money is good, working conditions are very good compared to the majority of lower paid jobs and the holidays are great.

Where else could you get paid £39497 for 195 days work or 1265 hours per year as an ordinary classroom teacher?

I think it works out at just over £31 per hour or £203 per day worked.

Hard to beat!

I have no doubt I would be good enough to work in the IT sector. If you are hard working, a willingness to learn and a drive to do well you will do well in most professions. I don't want to work in the IT sector though. The point I was trying to make is that this idea that teachers are on big money is a load of crap. It has decent money and excellent holidays but it's not massive money. My wife works in HR for a packing company and there are people standing on production lines getting more than teachers on M6 pay scale. Teaching is an important job and needs to be rewarded for it.

As I said before, the working conditions vary from school to school. In the last school I worked, I would have been in school 8.15 and leaving at 5.30 and working that night marking books and doing paperwork to all hours. 35 children in my class, 22 IEPs, 5 Romanians with no English at all and a traveller who wanted to fight everyone! The behaviour and issues we had to deal with on a day to day basis were shocking. Children throwing chairs, putting their boot through windows, trying to stab others with scissors etc!! And I didn't even have the worst class in the school. Even with all that, I spent 5 good years there, loved the experience and loved teaching the children. In my new school I arrive in at 8.30 and leave at 4.30 and have a bit of work to do at night but nothing like the last place to be fair. The children are all well behaved, hard working and the parents treat you with respect and trust you. It's a dream and I get paid the same money that my former colleagues get.

I love my job and I love teaching children. I like the management side of school as well and want to be a principal one day.  What I don't love is the absolutely meaningless paperwork that plays literally no role in improving children's education. Literally pieces of paper that sit in a file at the start of the year and aren't looked at until you've to do the same crap the next year. Meaningful assessment would be a good start. Stronger leadership from principals who don't live in fear of ETI would also be a great start. It's going to end up like Ofsted in England and that is proving to be a disaster for teachers. The best principal I ever worked for stood up to inspectors, parents and backed his staff.

I do agree with you on how the pay is structured. We move up the scale pretty quickly and then it stops! I am on UPS2 and approaching the end of the line for pay increases. You could spend 20 years on the same pay point without the chance of an increase, Some sort of performance related system would be good. I have worked with some useless and lazy teachers who are literally going through the motions or waiting for a redundancy package. I don't see teaching as a job you can bluff. You have 25-30 children sitting in front of you every day and if you're bluffing then it's ultimately the children who will suffer. I would love to kick some of those teachers out and bring in some of those teachers who are motivated and dying to get into a school to teach.

And getting back to the main topic, with all things considered I think the 4.25% is a joke and I will certainly be voting no. No matter what is said about teaching, 18% inflation since the last pay rise is a disgrace.

[Angelo]

If teaching was that bad then teachers wouldn't be holding the taxpayer to ransom and showing disregard to their students via strikes. They would be applying for jobs in other industries and leaving in their droves.

Not many other industries will pay you to take the summer off and Easter and Christmas etc. Most people get into teaching for the paid summer holidays and I think that is wrong. Even the ones that hate the job and work it entails won't leave it because of the works, despite all their tireless whining.

It would be a lot better for the students if teachers put as much effort into educating the children as they do for trying yo extract every attainable perk they can for themselves.

[Milltown Row2]

If teaching was that bad then teachers wouldn't be holding the taxpayer to ransom and showing disregard to their students via strikes. They would be applying for jobs in other industries and leaving in their droves.

Not many other industries will pay you to take the summer off and Easter and Christmas etc. Most people get into teaching for the paid summer holidays and I think that is wrong. Even the ones that hate the job and work it entails won't leave it because of the works, despite all their tireless whining.

It would be a lot better for the students if teachers put as much effort into educating the children as they do for trying yo extract every attainable perk they can for themselves.

Have you a link to that statement (just teaching for the paid holidays) ?

[Angelo]

If teaching was that bad then teachers wouldn't be holding the taxpayer to ransom and showing disregard to their students via strikes. They would be applying for jobs in other industries and leaving in their droves.

Not many other industries will pay you to take the summer off and Easter and Christmas etc. Most people get into teaching for the paid summer holidays and I think that is wrong. Even the ones that hate the job and work it entails won't leave it because of the works, despite all their tireless whining.

It would be a lot better for the students if teachers put as much effort into educating the children as they do for trying yo extract every attainable perk they can for themselves.

Have you a link to that statement (just teaching for the paid holidays) ?

It's an assertion.

Any job or profession I was unhappy with I moved on from or I sucked it up. Teachers consistently moan and play the poormouth and try and hold the taxpayer to ransom. If things were that bad then surely teachers would leave in their droves? Maybe they are wise enough to know when you benchmark teaching with most other jobs in various industries they come out very, very well - both financially and non-financial benefits. Teachers will never have much sympathy for me as there are plenty of avenues they can take rather than holding the taxpayer to ransom when they already get paid enough.

[tonto1888]

Angelo. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in 11 years in the profession I met one person who got into teaching for the holidays. She lasted 2 years.
Plenty of teachers 'suck it up' and get in with it.

[STREET FIGHTER]

If teaching was that bad then teachers wouldn't be holding the taxpayer to ransom and showing disregard to their students via strikes. They would be applying for jobs in other industries and leaving in their droves.

Not many other industries will pay you to take the summer off and Easter and Christmas etc. Most people get into teaching for the paid summer holidays and I think that is wrong. Even the ones that hate the job and work it entails won't leave it because of the works, despite all their tireless whining.

It would be a lot better for the students if teachers put as much effort into educating the children as they do for trying yo extract every attainable perk they can for themselves.

Have you a link to that statement (just teaching for the paid holidays) ?

It's an assertion.

Any job or profession I was unhappy with I moved on from or I sucked it up. Teachers consistently moan and play the poormouth and try and hold the taxpayer to ransom. If things were that bad then surely teachers would leave in their droves? Maybe they are wise enough to know when you benchmark teaching with most other jobs in various industries they come out very, very well - both financially and non-financial benefits. Teachers will never have much sympathy for me as there are plenty of avenues they can take rather than holding the taxpayer to ransom when they already get paid enough.

I reckon your full of sh*t....

What degree/qualifications allows a person to 'job hop' to continue to earn a decent living?

If you have a teaching degree.....your generally a teacher....how do you change career paths then? (successfully?)

Like it or not most people work to live and so this idea of an easy career change....well...does that exist?

Not a teacher by the way...think I'll look for a job in IT though!! (although have fcuk all qualifications in IT)

[JimStynes]

Get into coding! They don't have enough people to fill the jobs

[Angelo]

Angelo. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in 11 years in the profession I met one person who got into teaching for the holidays. She lasted 2 years.
Plenty of teachers 'suck it up' and get in with it.

How do you know that?

Teachers are all well versed in playing the poor mouth and acting like victims so they are hardly going to disclose it to all and sundry. The truth lies in the very low drop out rates in teaching, they "suck it up" and get on with it because when you benchmark it with other jobs across a whole variety of sectors they do extremely well out of it with the paid holidays being the cherry on top.